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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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bridge too far

bridge too far

Posted
Posted
As a total irrelevance I was watching Inside Out with my other half, who has no interest in football whatsoever, when TCWTB came on singing, Portsmouth till I die, whereupon she muttered, 'I wish he'd hurry up about it.'

Made me laugh anyway.....

 

I can't believe the BBC gave that idiot the oxygen of publicity he so craves.

 

Especially as there was absolutely no mention of today's events vis a vis the High Court tomorrow on South Today!

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hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted
Hutch Im not sure quite how you stand on their chances

Dare I say, toast:D.

 

In reality, none of us have seen any of the documents on whose contents we speculate so wildly, including the ones which, I suspect, are locked in various safes in the Carribean/Middle East/Far East/Russia, and will never be seen in England.

 

But, IMHO, the best they can hope for is that they will descend quickly through several leagues, and remain in their rightfull place below us for several generations.

 

The alternative is that they will start up again in non-league football.

 

Throughout this whole saga, there has not been one mention, not one, of any benefactor who is willing to invest in them. It's all about who can borrow what from where, and "rescheduling" the debts. Reschedule all you like, but some day somebody has to pay something back.

 

God bless you, Marcus.

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Saint Keith

Saint Keith

Posted
Posted
The points here, I think, are as follows:

 

Falcondrone borrows £17M from Portpin which is secured by the shares, Falcondrone own, representing 90% of the share capital of Portsmouth City Football Club.

 

Additionally, Portpin registers a charge on Fratton Park, owned by Portsmouth City Football Club.

 

Falcondrone fails to repay Portpin so Portpin takes ownership of the shares in Portsmouth City Football Club.

 

Portpin charge is satisfied by share transfer.

 

Fratton still owned by Portsmouth City Football Club because Falcondrone borrowed the money from Portpin, not PCFC which is not in default for the original £17M. It was Falcondrone.

 

Chanrai/Portpin is thus not a creditor of PCFC, but the majority shareholder.

 

The additional charge on every asset, current and future of PCFC was registered by Marc Jacobs on the 6th January, when he realised that Chanrai/Portpin were exposed. Fuglers realise that Marc Jacobs has done something that is dodgy, whilst under a court order, following the WUO and they fire him.

 

HMRC want to see the loan instruments that were deposited with Companies House that make Chanrai/Portpin think he/they can march into the sweetshop and empty the till...

 

All pure conjecture...

 

think another email to our friend mr sale might be in order

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Pugwash

Pugwash

Posted
Posted
COURT 53

Before MR JUSTICE NORRIS

Tuesday, 2 March 2010

At half past 10

GENERAL LIST

GLC 37/10 Her Majesty's Commissioners for Revenue and Customs v Portsmouth City Football Club Ltd

GLC 38/10 Same v Same

GLC 51/10 Same v Same

GLC 52/10 Grosvenor Basingstoke Properties Ltd and Grosvenor Basingstoke Management Ltd v Portsmouth City Football Club Ltd

 

So does this mean there are three different HMRC charges?

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wimbornesaint

wimbornesaint

Posted
Posted
Many many years ago an a**hole called Sarbanes-Oxley made my life in Corporate Land absolute hell.

 

Every single moment of every day we had a flood of Lawyers telling us how to answer the phones and how to keep records.

 

The reality was that "Corporate Compliance" moved to the forefront of the life of businessmen across the planet.

 

As companies built the correct legal systems and processes they went through great pain but also went through a tremendous learning experience. S-O actually became the perfect solution for poor management in that it enabled them to cover their arse at all steps in business life.

 

This court case is funny for us, it is no doubt a nightmare for The Few as they seek to find "Someone to Blame", BUT it clearly is time that the ENTIRE PL & FL structure and process implemented their own Corporate Governance and Processes rule book.

 

The day of the Nudge, Nod or Wink, the Brown Envelope have now finally been shown to have gone. Football Clubs must be run with Professional processes. If the Authorities will not act then The Government must.

 

 

 

Ahh the joys of SOX controls!

 

I have missed them since leaving Barclays! (not)

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wimbornesaint

wimbornesaint

Posted
Posted
I can't believe the BBC gave that idiot the oxygen of publicity he so craves.

 

Especially as there was absolutely no mention of today's events vis a vis the High Court tomorrow on South Today!

 

 

South Today caried it earlier than the main sports bit.

 

TH in the news room reporting breaking news

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Faz

Faz

Posted
Posted

The whole Administration thing is, as I mentioned 20 or so pages back(!), very bizarre. If Chennery had the power to put them into Admin, then why didn't he do it before the Winding-Up order was heard? He could not have expected another 7 days to prepare a Statement of Affairs, then chose to do it.

 

If was in his power then the sensible thing would have been to do it before the WU hearing. It's a bit fishy imo - and, evidently, itoohmrc.

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Weston Saint

Weston Saint

Posted
Posted
If HMRC decide to challenge the football debtor rule in the high court, how long would it take and what effect would it have on a CVA and the licence to play in the league next season?
They have already challenged it and lost. Appeal (or leave to appeal) and Supreme Court (then House of Lords) was their option. Unless there was a point of Law mistake then they cannot challenge again unless something fundumental changes. Common Law has been established on this point.

 

Challenge will be as regard the correctness of the Debencher issue and Chainrai's right as a secure creditor of PFC. Last throw of the dice by HMRC and one that could well be the winning throw.

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sidthesquid

sidthesquid

Posted
Posted

I would just like to say I have wasted YET another 3 hours of my life on this thread, just because I had some work to do and couldn't keep up all day.

I come home, expecting a half page of not very much then wham, more fun-filled news stories, as I struggle to catch up with a whole new viper's nest of contradictory theories and off we go again with a sleepless night of anticipation, rearranging my day tomorrow to make sure I can keep up to speed...... Arrggh!!

Where will it end? What will become of us all? Nurse! Nurse! It's time for my medication and a little lie down.......

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
They have already challenged it and lost. Appeal (or leave to appeal) and Supreme Court (then House of Lords) was their option. Unless there was a point of Law mistake then they cannot challenge again unless something fundumental changes. Common Law has been established on this point.

 

Challenge will be as regard the correctness of the Debencher issue and Chainrai's right as a secure creditor of PFC. Last throw of the dice by HMRC and one that could well be the winning throw.

 

Now, how do we get a loaded Dice into that Courtroom....

 

Hmm

 

Just WHERE have Clapham Saint & Torres been these past few days/weeks....

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted

Looks like we should be able to make 20,000 posts before the end after all...

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/mar/01/hmrc-portsmouth-high-court-administration

The Revenue, which had petitioned for a winding-up order over £12.1m in unpaid taxes, will return to the high court this morning to ask a series of searching questions over the validity of the procedure. Among other things, it is believed that HMRC has concerns over the validity of the mortgage that Balram Chainrai, the owner, holds over the club's assets.

 

The club is likely to be given time to consider its response to the points raised by HMRC, before a second hearing where a decision on the validity of the administration will be made.

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Guided Missile

Guided Missile

Posted
Posted
Looks like we should be able to make 20,000 posts before the end after all...

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/mar/01/hmrc-portsmouth-high-court-administration

 

This part of the story is the most interesting to me:

 

HMRC, now believed to be owed up to £18m in total by Portsmouth, is expected to challenge the validity of that mortgage and challenge the club to provide documentation. Because the club has not had its own bank account for several months, instead using a client account at the solicitors Fuglers, the Premier League has not had full oversight of all incoming and outgoing payments.

 

I wonder who had control of the Portsmouth City Football Club's client account? Surely not Marc Jacob, the well known Spurs fan and formally a partner at Fuglers, before they parted company.

 

My imagination is working overtime. Spurs....transfers....payments...incoming....outgoing...Redknapp...Storrie...Monaco...Offshore...Taxfree....

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Kingsland Red

Kingsland Red

Posted
Posted
The whole Administration thing is, as I mentioned 20 or so pages back(!), very bizarre. If Chennery had the power to put them into Admin, then why didn't he do it before the Winding-Up order was heard? He could not have expected another 7 days to prepare a Statement of Affairs, then chose to do it.

 

If was in his power then the sensible thing would have been to do it before the WU hearing. It's a bit fishy imo - and, evidently, itoohmrc.

 

I agree (and did 20 pages ago).

 

Now the court / HMRC also has the SoA and presumably other documents their evidence must be more watertight.

PFC have had the media platform since their court hearing. Finally we will get to hear their opponents views on their 'business'.

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Guided Missile

Guided Missile

Posted
Posted

Never tire of reading this one:

 

ROTFPMSL. That has to be one of the funniest things I've ever read. I bet Man Utd fans still consider you their rivals too. What a mong. This from someone who doesn't consider us his rivals but spends time and money getting reports from company house to post on here with a ridiculously sense of self inflated importance finding a legal flaw in Chainrai's plan only to be shown up as completely wrong. Not only that but as we're not your rivals, why post the same findings on Pompey Online posing as a Pompey fan no less.

Man United was a bigger rival for us than your lot for many years, as anyone that went to the Dell in the 70's will tell you.

 

As far as Chanrai's plans and their legality, I'm sure we'll find out more over the next few months, but I see that Fratton Park still belongs to Portsmouth City Football Club Limited with a Portpin charge on it, despite Chanrai saying it belonged to him and he was leasing it to the club for £1M a year.

 

You lot really do believe, on a regular basis, every morsel of sh !t that's fed you from Fratton, don't you. What a clueless bunch....and you'll never learn. From John Deacon, through Terry Venables and now Gaydamak, you sailors get a regular bumming and still take it with a toothless grin...

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JustMike

JustMike

Posted
Posted

lifted this from a comment on a friends facebook thread....

 

"In fairness, from a boring legal side of things, it sounds as though the reason behind the opposition of Pompey's attempt to go into voluntary liquidation is to do with Pompey/Chainrai trying to cheat the system to put Chainrai in a better position than he would be under the HMRC winding up petition (to the detriment of other creditors). By the look of it, HMRC want their winding up order to stand because they first issued it before Chainrai enforced his debt. At that point, Chanrai was an unsecured creditor, meaning there is more money in the overall pot.

 

By the sounds of it, between that winding up order being issued by HMRC and the voluntary administration, Chainrai purportedly enforced his debt, making himself a secured creditor. Overall, if the voluntary administration stands, it means HMRC will get less money on administration. If their winding up order stands, it means Chainrai is a simple unsecured creditor and HMRC will get more money.

 

Initially, I got excited because I thought it meant HMRC think they have sufficient grounds to show liquidation is the most suitable course. But if the above theory is what is actually going on, it means that not much will change onthe face of it really - just that Chainrai won't get as much money back as he has tried to.

 

I may be wrong however, and it may still be that HMRC want blood. If that is the case, I will be laughing a lot!"

 

Any legal experts shed any light?

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Channon's Sideburns

Channon's Sideburns

Posted
Posted
This part of the story is the most interesting to me:

 

HMRC, now believed to be owed up to £18m in total by Portsmouth, is expected to challenge the validity of that mortgage and challenge the club to provide documentation. Because the club has not had its own bank account for several months, instead using a client account at the solicitors Fuglers, the Premier League has not had full oversight of all incoming and outgoing payments.

 

I wonder who had control of the Portsmouth City Football Club's client account? Surely not Marc Jacob, the well known Spurs fan and formally a partner at Fuglers, before they parted company.

 

My imagination is working overtime. Spurs....transfers....payments...incoming....outgoing...Redknapp...Storrie...Monaco...Offshore...Taxfree....

 

My thoughts exactly, hence my earlier post about using that Fugler bank account.

 

And to think it was common knowledge amongst the blue few....

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SW5 SAINT

SW5 SAINT

Posted
Posted

The other point to remember is if this latest round of court hearings drags on, they not officially enter admin until after the cut off date for this season. So the points deduction may not taker effect until next season (if they go down anyway)

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Weston Saint

Weston Saint

Posted
Posted

For those who wonder about the case of Wimbledon Football Club:

 

can “super-priority” creditors be paid ahead of preferential creditors?

 

The Football League Limited (the “League”) As the holder of one share (the “Share”) in the League and accordingly a member of the League, Wimbledon Football Club (“Wimbledon”) was bound by its rules.

 

Wimbledon was in administration and wanted to exit administration via a company voluntary arrangement. However, under the rules of the League, the administrators could only sell Wimbledon’s undertaking and the Share at an advantageous price if the purchaser paid specified non-preferential (“super-priority”) creditors in full.

 

The arrangement

 

The proposal (which was approved by the creditors) was that a purchaser agreed to buy Wimbledon’s undertaking and assets (including the Share) and assume its obligation to pay the “super-priority” creditors in full. The proceeds of the sale would be used to pay preferential creditors 30p in every £1. The Inland Revenue (a preferential creditor of Wimbledon, as this was a pre-Enterprise Act case) opposed the voluntary arrangement.

 

The result

 

The High Court held that it was possible for a third party to pay certain non-preferential creditors ahead of preferential creditors out of its own “free” money. The particular arrangement did not infringe s4(4) Insolvency Act 1986, which provides that any proposal under which “any preferential debt of the company is to be paid otherwise in priority to such of its debts as are not preferential debts” shall not be approved by the creditors, because the payment came out of the purchaser’s own pocket and did not reduce the assets available to the creditors. The court further remarked that it does not matter that the payment was made “on behalf of” or “at the instance of” or “for the benefit of'' Wimbledon.

 

Scope to evade preferential claims?

 

The judge made it perfectly clear that the ruling does not give any scope for evading the principle that preferential creditors rank in priority to the general body of unsecured creditors and that nothing in the judgment can or should be taken as encouragement for an arrangement to defeat preferential claims.

 

…it is possible for a third party to pay certain non-preferential creditors ahead of

preferential creditors out of its own “free” money…

 

1 Inland Revenue Commissioners v (1) The Wimbledon Football Club Ltd (2) Martin Gilbert Ellis and (3) James Earp [2004]

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
The other point to remember is if this latest round of court hearings drags on, they not officially enter admin until after the cut off date for this season. So the points deduction may not taker effect until next season (if they go down anyway)

 

what date would that be?

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Sevvy

Sevvy

Posted
Posted
'He's a witch burn him'

........only kidding...but my wife was born on halloween and she is a saints fan......you should see our kitchen on oct 31 it's bedlem you cant move for newts, half cut up toads and bats

 

I think i am married to your wife sister, her cooking contains a lot of that.

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Micky

Micky

Posted
Posted

Tomorrow will indeed be an interesting day. My only slight concern though is how robustly HMRC and indeed the Court persue the issues.

 

Don't forget, Pompeys outstanding tax bill is now well publicised, and as a result the tax man has a duty of care to all other law abiding tax payers to persue Pompey. In effect the monies outstanding should be going towards services to benefit the nation - it is our money.

 

Effectively Pompey have been paying 'cash in hand' - tis that simple - should a smaller business be proved guilty of the same offence then it would be likely that they would not only have to repay the outstanding tax arrears, but would also be subject to heavy fines as well.

 

Therefore, on this occasion the tax man is our champion and would be unable to simply roll over and die, allowing administration of the company to be the easy way out.

 

That said - it will be interesting to see how far they are prepared to go to either see justice done, or be placated by yet another company who have 'gotten into difficulties'.

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Jimmy_D

Jimmy_D

Posted
Posted
Apologies. Can I do boosting?

 

I'm not sure what boosting is... is it related to sarcasm or being sardonic?

 

 

aaaanyway...

 

I'd like to make some massive insight into what's likely to happen tomorrow, but I haven't got the foggiest, so I'm just gonna have to wait and see like everyone else...

 

Although to be fair I reckon that's what the lawyers involved in the case are gonna have to do as well.

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Danbert

Danbert

Posted
Posted
Looks like we should be able to make 20,000 posts before the end after all...

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/mar/01/hmrc-portsmouth-high-court-administration

The Revenue, which had petitioned for a winding-up order over £12.1m in unpaid taxes, will return to the high court this morning to ask a series of searching questions over the validity of the procedure. Among other things, it is believed that HMRC has concerns over the validity of the mortgage that Balram Chainrai, the owner, holds over the club's assets.

 

The club is likely to be given time to consider its response to the points raised by HMRC, before a second hearing where a decision on the validity of the administration will be made.

 

The real issue to my mind is not the length of the thread but its title. I see no takeover...

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tony13579

tony13579

Posted
Posted
Now, how do we get a loaded Dice into that Courtroom....

 

Hmm

 

Just WHERE have Clapham Saint & Torres been these past few days/weeks....

 

Loaded dice are there already. Hmrc and the court service have played a blinder, they quietly slipped this onthe web and up in the court at around 4pm before any one noticed it. They might have sent Krap nottarf a fax at ten to four.

 

Now al mirrarge and chanderai are at home just settling down for afternoon tea with a slim chance of getting into central londan by 10:30 with proof of charge on the assetts :)

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

general opinion here last week from those that know was that Chanerai was caught between deciding whether he's an owner or a creditor and as such he couldn't put the club into admin.

Administrator saw it differently, taxman agrees with us.

The fact that it's returning to court suggests the taxman fancies his chances, especially as the paperwork must be all over the place.

 

Admin boy says he's not unduly worried, but then again he wouldn't be, it's not his football club - and he does come across as clueless.

 

If it wasn't for the chaotic last six months I would see this as a minor blip - but with their track record for employing idiots and suicidal strategies I don't see him dismissing this challenge too easily, and certainly not in one go tomorrow.

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted (edited)

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Sick-joke-as-potless-Portsmouth-offer-fans-financial-advice-article341255.html:

 

Mirror article on how the skates are diversifying. All this time they've being sharing their wisdom and selling financial advice to their supporters, a new arm to their mouth-watering franchise. rolleyes::rolleyes:

Edited by shurlock
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Doctoroncall

Doctoroncall

Posted
Posted

Jeez, bad timing for a week long meeting in Munich, I hope I have enough breaks to catch up on the skates gossip.

 

Some of my own - saw Tevez held up at customs yesterday with a blond bint before kissing her full on to collect the baggage. I thought he was smitten with his new early arrival in Argentina????

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted

Just rereading the quotes - android really is something.

 

"It's not standard procedure but I'd imagine that HMRC are basically crossing their Is and dotting their Ts. We're expecting the administration to proceed as it was"

 

The irony - can't even use a metaphor in the context of completing a formality without tripping over himself. Shambolic from top to bottom, from word to deed.

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emerson massey

emerson massey

Posted
Posted
Now the Skates are saying it's a government conspiracy against them.:D

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Pompey-woes-39a-wake-up.6113623.jp

 

This comment was particularly amusing

 

"3

azap,

hants 01/03/2010 20:01:46

Can anyone confirm if the PST is on the board yet??

What im thinking is we as fan's would then have access to supplying a revenue stream to pay HMRC,and in return arrange for the issue of shares in Pfc/PST, or the money credited to each individual for future fixtures in 2010/2011.

 

If it is £7.5million owed that is 50,000 X £150 each

..simplez??!!"

 

50,000 ......hahahaha

£7.5million.....hahahaha :rolleyes::D

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chrisobee

chrisobee

Posted
Posted

Of course we got ourselves onto a fine mess but this level of debt, subterfuge etc; is truly mind boggling. Pompey deserve everything that is coming and with HMRC on their backs that is likely to be horrific ( for them). The Revenue do not think twice about forcing individuals into bankruptcy ( I used to work for them but don't tell anyone lol ) and I cannot imagine they'll show any mercy so it could well be bye bye Pompey.

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ericofarabia

ericofarabia

Posted
Posted

Nearly had a heart attack whilst half listening to the News Headlines (here in Dubai) on the radio in a still half asleep mode ..... "and in sport, Top Banking and Finance Executives are seeking to buy the worlds most famous football club" , ...... and on the weather front heavy thunderstorms and rain showers will continue throughout the day with temps around the mid 20's. :smt103

 

WTF I thought .... is it April Fools Day ... well it certainly was raining and we did have Thunderstorms over night :cool: ... somebody buying but The Worlds Most Famous Football Club ... are they avin a larf. :confused:

 

Luckily they weren't actually talking about The Worlds Most Famous Football Club, just some little tin pot outfit called Man Utd :D

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