Pompey Takeover Saga

[Gorgiesaint]

The points issue is a non starter but just like Saints did, it will be persued until someone realises it is not going to happen. -9 is going to happen.

 

As for PL dishing out all the TV and Parachute payments in advance, let us remember it is going to those who deserve it, the Creditors.

Whoever buys the skeleton left will have a healthy club living within it's means but dropping like a stone for a few years.

 

We had just about hit rock bottom, PFC still have a long way to fall

 

The problem is Weston, which creditors will see it? I can see Chainrai & Gaydemak getting most of their funds back, but I fear for the local traders and St Johns Ambulances.

[Merovingian]

lol - funny the administrator announced this morning debt is £78M - this would mean HMRC debt is less than 25% - what a surprise lol

[pedg]

lol - funny the administrator announced this morning debt is £78M - this would mean HMRC debt is less than 25% - what a surprise lol

 

But is it also less than half the unsecured debt?

[Merovingian]

dunno - hopefully we will see where all the ******* money has gone this coming week, another rumour is Chainrai might buy us back FFS ! Comedy gold

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Just got this from my original informer - juicy stuff. I quote -

 

"The Pompey kit man, Kevin McCormack was on.....£73,000 a year!

 

F**k me, I know junior hospital doctors who don't pull that in.

 

Not sure how much Woggy earned, but I bet it wasn't half that.

 

£73,000 for hanging the players' kit on hooks for them, collecting it up after the game, putting it in a skip and taking it to be washed.

 

Apparently, it was part of Storrie's modus operandus to give everyone huge salaries, which didn't make his look quite so bad.

 

Gary Double, their director of communications (ie, press officer) pulled in £135,000 a year as a freelance consultant, but he hadn't been paid for three months when he jumped ship on Thursday.

 

There's going to be loads of this stuff coming out".

 

Just got this from my source -

I see the News of the World are reporting Kevin McCormack's salary as £46,000 plus bonuses.

 

It was the 'bonuses' that took his earnings up to £73,000.

 

And how did he earn those bonuses?

 

He got paid £250 'bonus' every day that he put the cones out at the training ground (and collecting them back in, of course) as that was not considered part of his normal duties as kitman.

 

£250 a day to put cones out?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I feel that this is a pertinent question:

 

Am I right with my memory that if a relegated PL team gains promotion at the first attempt, it's second (subsequent) payment gets shared among FL teams or something to that effect. In other words that re-promoted (thanks for that word RL) does not receive it?

 

So, a big what if. What if Poopey get promoted (against all odds and my hopes)? That second, subsequent payment has been mortgaged, or part of it dished out already (I CBA to do the maths). Where does the EPL go from there? They have nowt to dish out (if my thinking is correct). I'm aware, of course, that Poopey will be able to pay off that mortgage as they will be in receipt of SKY/PL money (if only for that one season).

[scally]

People on here are talking about the skates taking out loans against the parachute payments but can an administrator actually take out a loan on behalf of a company that is in administration? Borrowing against future revenue is one of the reasons they are in the position they are currently in.

[Tamesaint]

Just got this from my source -

I see the News of the World are reporting Kevin McCormack's salary as £46,000 plus bonuses.

 

It was the 'bonuses' that took his earnings up to £73,000.

 

And how did he earn those bonuses?

 

He got paid £250 'bonus' every day that he put the cones out at the training ground (and collecting them back in, of course) as that was not considered part of his normal duties as kitman.

 

£250 a day to put cones out?

 

Yeah..... but I let those cones were put out really well!!!!

Edited 28 February, 2010 by Tamesaint

[OldNick]

I think what this thread has shown is that the people running Pompey know every dodge in the book and the posters on here are getting to their conclusions that they play by the rules.

I think I have been consistant in my views that Pompey will survive and still come up smelling of roses. Today's reports sadly seem to show that.

Chanrai and co has been given time by the judge to screw everybody and whilst we all felt that the SoA was a great result it seems to me at this time now it was worthless. How does that make decent working people who slog all week for meagre pay to support their teams then to see fooball club owners take the rip out of us and the revenue. That is all football fans. We in the main are oblivious to these things until we see it unfold so publicly. It is hard to tell youngsters that crime doesn't pay when they see apparent wrongdoings going on.

[View From The Top]

People on here are talking about the skates taking out loans against the parachute payments but can an administrator actually take out a loan on behalf of a company that is in administration? Borrowing against future revenue is one of the reasons they are in the position they are currently in.

 

Without the parachute payment being advanced they'd struggle to finish the season and what's why pfc met the EPL last week so it could be agreed in principal.

 

They are out of cash and can't rely on player sales to bring in the cash when it's required.

[hutch]

I understand, but borrow the money from where, which pot of money?

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I meant, for example, a bank.

 

The administrator could go to a bank and get a loan for, say, £5m, with a guarantee from the PL to the bank that the PL would pay that money, plus interest, back to the bank in, say, August this year. So the bank isn't taking any extraordinary risk.

 

The interesting thing there would be, on what terms would the PL give such a guarantee?

[OldNick]

Yeak..... but I let those cones were put out really well!!!!

I bet Dennis Rofe is spitting mad...only kidding Dennis you were a star

[View From The Top]

I think what this thread has shown is that the people running Pompey know every dodge in the book and the posters on here are getting to their conclusions that they play by the rules.

I think I have been consistant in my views that Pompey will survive and still come up smelling of roses. Today's reports sadly seem to show that.

Chanrai and co has been given time by the judge to screw everybody and whilst we all felt that the SoA was a great result it seems to me at this time now it was worthless. How does that make decent working people who slog all week for meagre pay to support their teams then to see fooball club owners take the rip out of us and the revenue. That is all football fans. We in the main are oblivious to these things until we see it unfold so publicly. It is hard to tell youngsters that crime doesn't pay when they see apparent wrongdoings going on.

 

I sometimes wonder what world you inhabit.

 

If you cannot see how fu©ked they are then I would suggest you let the scales fall from your eyes.

[OldNick]

I sometimes wonder what world you inhabit.

 

If you cannot see how fu©ked they are then I would suggest you let the scales fall from your eyes.

VFTT, roll back 2 weeks 2 months etc and see how, so many were confident they were toast . They had the close call when the lady gave them a week which turned into 3 weeks and now however long. I have seen them not only survive but been enabled to carry on trading even though it seems they were insolvent. The HMRC owed 18m for only them to put the club into admin with the distinct possibility that the majority of their debts wiped. Chanrai can own the club for no new investment but take on the player assets ,as well as owning the ground. He can see that the debts will all be paid with the parachute monies and the wage bill slashed to manageble levels, even in CCC. As a billionaire he can easily fund a few purchases to take a small gamble to get instant promotion and then again have a PL football club that he can sell on with the new riches of the tv revenues.IMO he is on a no lose situation.

If heaven forbid they did get to the FA cup final his investment will become a great profit quickly as those revenue streams would IMO be into the new company. That is of course if he takes them on quickly, and the way it is set-up it looks to me he wil do so.

I am happy to come back and say Im wrong and eat humble pie, if he does not buy it and they fold or get massive points penalties.

[ottery st mary]

Just got this from my source -

I see the News of the World are reporting Kevin McCormack's salary as £46,000 plus bonuses.

 

It was the 'bonuses' that took his earnings up to £73,000.

 

And how did he earn those bonuses?

 

He got paid £250 'bonus' every day that he put the cones out at the training ground (and collecting them back in, of course) as that was not considered part of his normal duties as kitman.

 

£250 a day to put cones out?

 

He got extra bonus for painting those red and white cones a shade of blue...:smt070

 

FF you are like a Godfather figure to me:)

 

COYRs

[benjii]

I think what this thread has shown is that the people running Pompey know every dodge in the book and the posters on here are getting to their conclusions that they play by the rules.

I think I have been consistant in my views that Pompey will survive and still come up smelling of roses. Today's reports sadly seem to show that.

Chanrai and co has been given time by the judge to screw everybody and whilst we all felt that the SoA was a great result it seems to me at this time now it was worthless. How does that make decent working people who slog all week for meagre pay to support their teams then to see fooball club owners take the rip out of us and the revenue. That is all football fans. We in the main are oblivious to these things until we see it unfold so publicly. It is hard to tell youngsters that crime doesn't pay when they see apparent wrongdoings going on.

 

Seriously, you have some problems to address!

[OldNick]

Seriously, you have some problems to address!

 

Benjii, you don't need to tell me that Lol.

 

I would love to have your optimism, at least i won't be as disappointed as some, but I will seethe if the companies officers do not get serious penalties.

[benjii]

If Chanrai buys them back it will be to ensure that all avaible money goes into the Fratton Park rental payments. It certainly won't be to ensure PFC does well on the pitch.

 

And if he buys them back it will cost him a lot of money to avoid a points penalty next year. That is, if they don't receive a penalty becuase of "ireegularities" or some such other euphemism.

 

They are buggered for many a year

[OldNick]

If Chanrai buys them back it will be to ensure that all avaible money goes into the Fratton Park rental payments. It certainly won't be to ensure PFC does well on the pitch.

 

And if he buys them back it will cost him a lot of money to avoid a points penalty next year. That is, if they don't receive a penalty becuase of "ireegularities" or some such other euphemism.

 

They are buggered for many a year

Keep on talking dirty to me, it does make me feel better

[Winchester Red]

Many good business men have tried to make a profit out of league teams and failed. Many better ones have realised you can't and got out (Noades, Pathetis, etc). How would Chainrai succeed where others have failed and that's before you consider he has no football expertise.

 

If he buys PFC from the administrator it'll only be to take any remaining parachute payments before selling again or closing them down.

 

He was conned and wants repayment big time.

 

If he buys them again the supporters better start thinking AFC quickly

 

(NH - They're toast, honestly - maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but someday and for the rest of their lives )

Edited 28 February, 2010 by Winchester Red

[Winchester Red]

Report in yesterdays Times (p30) set it out well.

 

Administration is just delaying the inevitable. Without significant new money they can't see the FL allowing them to start the season

[rpb]

I think I have been consistant in my views that Pompey will survive and still come up smelling of roses. Today's reports sadly seem to show that.

 

Nickh - everytime you write that, Pompey seem to get hit by yet another disaster. Keep it up!

[Faz]

VFTT, roll back 2 weeks 2 months etc and see how, so many were confident they were toast . They had the close call when the lady gave them a week which turned into 3 weeks and now however long. I have seen them not only survive but been enabled to carry on trading even though it seems they were insolvent. The HMRC owed 18m for only them to put the club into admin with the distinct possibility that the majority of their debts wiped. Chanrai can own the club for no new investment but take on the player assets ,as well as owning the ground. He can see that the debts will all be paid with the parachute monies and the wage bill slashed to manageble levels, even in CCC. As a billionaire he can easily fund a few purchases to take a small gamble to get instant promotion and then again have a PL football club that he can sell on with the new riches of the tv revenues.IMO he is on a no lose situation.

If heaven forbid they did get to the FA cup final his investment will become a great profit quickly as those revenue streams would IMO be into the new company. That is of course if he takes them on quickly, and the way it is set-up it looks to me he wil do so.

I am happy to come back and say Im wrong and eat humble pie, if he does not buy it and they fold or get massive points penalties.

 

No-one outside the inner sanctum at PFC will know the facts, but from what is in the public domain the debt is £78m. Of that about £10m is football creditors who will not be part of any CVA. Another £33m is Gheydamak, and secured so outside a CVA (He could give up his security and participate, but that's unlikely). £17m to Chennery is secured on the Ground, so again outside the CVA. He could take posession of the ground and sell it for fair value (but that would seem unlikely too), and prove in the CVA for the remainder. Which leave just about £18m owed to HMRC and other creditors, of which we know HMRC is at least £11.5m.

 

So, by my reckoning, unless Chennery buys the club for £1 and pays off HMRC, thats a further points deduction next year. And if he was going to do that, then what was the point of going into Admin, as the 9pt deduction has cost them their PL place for definite. The PL may offset wages and football debts against the parachute money, they will still be paying some of those contracts for years to come, in the CCC or worse.

 

And we don't know the terms of Gheydamaks loan. He says he is a soft creditor, but the loan must carry interest, and have some repayment term built into it. He may be prepared to play the long game, but that's only to extract the development potential. They can wait long after the club has folded to get their planning consent.

 

And there is still the spectre of irregular payments to managers and Executives to consider.

 

I might have it all completely screwed, but that's how I see it.

Edited 28 February, 2010 by Faz

[tony13579]

Originally Posted by tony13579

I understand, but borrow the money from where, which pot of money?

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I meant, for example, a bank.

 

The administrator could go to a bank and get a loan for, say, £5m, with a guarantee from the PL to the bank that the PL would pay that money, plus interest, back to the bank in, say, August this year. So the bank isn't taking any extraordinary risk.

 

The interesting thing there would be, on what terms would the PL give such a guarantee?

Portsmouth havn't been able to borrow from a bank for years. Thier troubles started when thier banks called in thier loans. That was before the recession.

Portsmouth would not be getting money from sons of arms dealers or desert dwellers if they could just go into Lloyds or Barclays and fill out a form.

 

The administrator can "restructure thier debts" I doubt that any loan can come from any PLC with shareholders, they are just too risky. I agree the PL could Borrow the money and give it to Portsmouth.

 

Is the PL registered as a licenced credit broker?

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/credit_licences/oft147.pdf

You are likely to need a consumer credit licence if you:

• sell goods on credit

• hire or lease out goods for more than three months

• lend money

• arrange credit for others

• offer hire purchase terms

• collect debts

• help people with debt problems

• advise on people’s credit standing.

[70's Mike]

watched Grants interview and Kammy on Sky this morning, they keep coming up with this cr*p about football should be settled on pitch.

they just do not get it

the skates gained an unfair advantage by signing players they ,knew, they could not afford.

[Winchester Red]

The way I understand it is the Administrator will arrange loans with a bank or whatever using the (PL approved) parachute payment as security.

 

The club get their money now, and the PL pays the bank directly the loan sum plus interest when the parachute payment is due.

 

The PL doesn't hold the money itself so it can't just give it early, and Sky sure as hell can't. Their debts are more than the entire PL combined!!!

[Faz]

The way I understand it is the Administrator will arrange loans with a bank or whatever using the (PL approved) parachute payment as security.

 

The club get their money now, and the PL pays the bank directly the loan sum plus interest when the parachute payment is due.

 

The PL doesn't hold the money itself so it can't just give it early, and Sky sure as hell can't. Their debts are more than the entire PL combined!!!

 

I do question which Bank might be prepared to do that in these credit crunched times. How much is aguarnatee from the EPL worth? About as much as the funding from Sky - who are gazillions in debt.

 

Probably could still happen, but might not be a slam dunker.

[Winchester Red]

I do question which Bank might be prepared to do that in these credit crunched times. How much is aguarnatee from the EPL worth? About as much as the funding from Sky - who are gazillions in debt.

 

Probably could still happen, but might not be a slam dunker.

 

What a slur!!!

 

Surely the PL is the god of all institution's? Sound beyond question? Levels of integrity that are so ingrained in the moral..........

 

 

ah nuts

 

You're probably right

[saintalan]

Would the PL guarantee be that they agree to secure the loan regardless of whether thay are subsequently liquidated or not?

 

Theoretically if they were liquidated before PL parachutes were payable the PL wouldn't have to pay them?

[OldNick]

I do question which Bank might be prepared to do that in these credit crunched times. How much is aguarnatee from the EPL worth? About as much as the funding from Sky - who are gazillions in debt.

 

Probably could still happen, but might not be a slam dunker.

Barclays Premier league

[OldNick]

Nickh - everytime you write that, Pompey seem to get hit by yet another disaster. Keep it up!

Lol

[tony13579]

The PL is a club of 20 clubs most of whom are in debt. Each year 3 members of the club drop out and 3 more join. In the process of joining, hanging in there or leaving more debt is incurred. :smt110

[NickG]

I wonder what their set up will be in CCC next year?

 

parachute payment already gone to debts

"cut to the bone"

inevitably small crowds

 

even if they don't have further points they could struggle

[benjii]

Keep on talking dirty to me, it does make me feel better

 

Mods! Mods! MODS!!!

 

Please put me on nickh's Ignore List immediately!

 

[hutch]

Would the PL guarantee be that they agree to secure the loan regardless of whether thay are subsequently liquidated or not?

 

Theoretically if they were liquidated before PL parachutes were payable the PL wouldn't have to pay them?

Alan, I considered the same conundrum a few pages ago, where I said that I think the parachute payments are out of reach for the administrator unless he could guarantee that they could compete next season.

 

Of course, the PL would have to give an absolute guarantee to pay back the loan, irrespective of whether they are liquidated or not. Otherwise no lender will touch them.

 

I think it comes down to the status of the parachute payments, and I don't know the answer to that.

 

If they are "enhanced" tv rights payments, then I still think they are out of reach.

 

But if they are some sort of "guaranteed compensation" for being relegated, paid in installments for cash flow purposes (Sky's, the PL's or the club's), then I think it could happen.

 

Having read the recent statements, I think the latter is the most likely, particularly as it appears that the parachute payments are made by the PL, even though the club would be competing in the FL. If they were enhanced tv rights payments, they would be more likely paid by the FL.

Edited 28 February, 2010 by hutch
spelling

[Gingeletiss]

dunno - hopefully we will see where all the ******* money has gone this coming week, another rumour is Chainrai might buy us back FFS ! Comedy gold

 

Mero, naughty boy!!. You haven't been keeping up, have you??. This was mooted on here last week, and is the worst kept secret in the pure part of Hampshire.

[Gingeletiss]

I think what this thread has shown is that the people running Pompey know every dodge in the book and the posters on here are getting to their conclusions that they play by the rules.

I think I have been consistant in my views that Pompey will survive and still come up smelling of roses. Today's reports sadly seem to show that.

Chanrai and co has been given time by the judge to screw everybody and whilst we all felt that the SoA was a great result it seems to me at this time now it was worthless. How does that make decent working people who slog all week for meagre pay to support their teams then to see fooball club owners take the rip out of us and the revenue. That is all football fans. We in the main are oblivious to these things until we see it unfold so publicly. It is hard to tell youngsters that crime doesn't pay when they see apparent wrongdoings going on.

 

nick, not for the first time, do I find myself astounded by one of your posts. Look at all the clues nick, they are to all purposes...toast.

 

They have nothing my friend, even in administration, they are talking about loans. The only person/people likely to buy them, would be more bent than a CEO;). It's like being declared dead, buried, but them ringing the bell in the belief that someone will come and rescue them. Many hear the bell ring, but ignore it by reasoning that hell...they're going to die anyway.

[Window Cleaner]

Here's some "news" from L'Equipe, no doubt it's already in the Sundays anyway.

 

Apparently Pompey owe more than at first thought, somewhere around 78 million £. The administrator can't quite understand just how they've sold so many players for quite a lot of money (100 million according to L'Equipe) and still have so much debt. So the Admin is going to look into the transfers in detail, one by one to try to fathom out where all the funds have gone...good hunting my friend.

[Amesbury Saint]

the administrator has to cut costs

can he send loan players back?

[Gingeletiss]

the administrator has to cut costs

can he send loan players back?

 

He can cancel the contracts of any staff....from CEO to player.

[Amesbury Saint]

He can cancel the contracts of any staff....from CEO to player.

 

is that cancel without any compensation or cancel with compensation?

[Winchester Red]

is that cancel without any compensation or cancel with compensation?

 

He can't cancel any football contract without paying it up in full.

 

That could still be way less than the 'playing' cost for the term though, as it will only be the basic sum without appearance, goal, win, etc bonuses.

 

Whenever the media say someone is on, say, £50k a week it will really be:

 

£20k basic

£10k appearance

£5k per goal

£10k image rights

or whatever

 

I think he would only be obliged to pay up the basic and could try and negotiate his way out for less. It depends how much the player would like to get away (and who can blame them!)

Edited 28 February, 2010 by Winchester Red

[benjii]

He can't cancel any football contract without paying it up in full.

 

Is this "fact"!

 

I ask because, as far as I'm aware, the footballing creditors rule states that you have to pay all outstanding debts.

 

Well, future contractual entitlements aren't debts. An administrator normally has the power to break any employment contracts. I don't see why his powers should be any different here.

[benjii]

is that cancel without any compensation or cancel with compensation?

 

Without, I think.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

No matter whether he pays up in part or full just where would the money come from?

[Winchester Red]

Is this "fact"!

 

I ask because, as far as I'm aware, the footballing creditors rule states that you have to pay all outstanding debts.

 

Well, future contractual entitlements aren't debts. An administrator normally has the power to break any employment contracts. I don't see why his powers should be any different here.

 

I have heard it said many times that footballers contracts are protected, but I couldn't point you in the direction of where to find it written down.

 

Like everything, the rules for you and me are very different to footballers. I think it's treated like a football debt

 

I'm confident enough, say 99% - so by the standards of this site. Yes.... Yes it is fact

[Winchester Red]

In fact, I think it's something to do with the PFA rather than the PL.

 

I will look into it because I do get a certain perverse pleasure fro being right when being questioned by someone particularly knowledgable like yourself Benji

[Winchester Red]

B*llocks I'm wrong :smt103

 

Half way down says may have to terminate contracts

http://www.givemefootball.com/premier-league/pompey-go-into-administration

Although that may mean they still have to be paid up???? (He says hopefully!)

 

Let me just go and find a stone to crawl under

 

](*,)](*,)

Edited 28 February, 2010 by Winchester Red

[benjii]

I'm pretty sure he can tear it up and say "see you later" for free. Makes sense to try to sell players first though. Has the PL confirmed whether they will let other clubs register Skate players yet?

 

TBH, I think the PL need to have their little meeting ASAP, confirm the 9 point pelanty (© Chris Waddle) and then announce what the situation is with regards to selling players.

[pedg]

I'm pretty sure he can tear it up and say "see you later" for free. Makes sense to try to sell players first though. Has the PL confirmed whether they will let other clubs register Skate players yet?

 

TBH, I think the PL need to have their little meeting ASAP, confirm the 9 point pelanty (© Chris Waddle) and then announce what the situation is with regards to selling players.

 

Guess if they can't sell (or rather other clubs can't register) those players whose contracts end the end of this season will be shown the door as not going to make any money on them are they?