Pompey Takeover Saga

[qwertySFC]

Apperantly its going to be so cold in Skatesville tomorrow even the lawyers will have their hands in their own pockets

[saintbletch]

He'll use the parachute payment money to cover his costs of funding administration.

 

He's played a blinder.

 

So can you help me see his end game?

 

An end game that gets him somewhere near the £17M he loaned them - or is this "he's played a blinder to have got a fraction of his money back with a promise of rent on a stadium he owns with the potential that he might be able to sell the land at some point down the road."?

 

Sorry to be thick but it doesn't add up YET in my head.

[dubai_phil]

OK. I can see that Chainrai has apparently played a blinder so far in that he's manipulated the assets, the WUO and ducked the HMRC bill. But, he's setting himself up for quite a bill for wages (assuming he supports the administration as he has said he will) and all of this has damaged the product that he's now trying to sell.

 

He will basically be offering a Championship club, that will be unlikely to get a CVA and so will start on -ve points. So from a purchasing perspective you are buying a L1 club.

 

It will also have the spectre of a company that has traded insolvently with the potential additional points penalty that it might bring.

 

Three of the clubs previous directors are charged with cheating the public revenue so could also land the club with additional points deductions (Luton) - and maybe not in the next season but beyond that.

 

The club will be renting it's ground which will give it cash flow problems for years to come (Palace) - or someone will have to stump up another ~£10M+ to get the ground.

 

The club's squad will likely have been decimated or they will be paying silly money to buy Prem players out of contracts (unless their contracts state a big drop if relegated).

 

They will likely have dipped into the their first year's parachute payment which I believe the Premier League has said it will pay directly to debtors so Chainrai can't get his hands on this easily.

 

For these reasons I'm not sure Chainrai is sitting pretty OR there is something that hasn't yet come to light that will make this all make sense.

 

Agree with most of that except yoou have misundestood the spin regarding the wording "costs of administration".

 

That is pretty much going to be the administrators FEES, not the running cost of the business in admin.

 

the day to day costs will be covered by the PL - they have said as much - by use of the TV money. I doubt the PL will advance any money but I expect that they can give guarantees that it would be paid to a lender to the club in admin to pay opex.

 

Remember, the PL will do a deal to keep the club in business to the end of season and also in a manner so that they do NOT have to play their Academy each week - anything else would be cried foul by the teams affected by results BEFORE admin

 

The owners, Storrie et al won't get near that cash UNTIL the costs of running the club are covered - I'd expect to see it described as "Helping the club restructure for the future and helping a historical relic world's best fans etc. Left overs will go to cover the offer for the CVA

Edited 25 February, 2010 by dubai_phil
don't buy a feckin Acer laptop the keyboard is Karp

[benjii]

OK. I can see that Chainrai has apparently played a blinder so far in that he's manipulated the assets, the WUO and ducked the HMRC bill. But, he's setting himself up for quite a bill for wages (assuming he supports the administration as he has said he will) and all of this has damaged the product that he's now trying to sell.

 

He will basically be offering a Championship club, that will be unlikely to get a CVA and so will start on -ve points. So from a purchasing perspective you are buying a L1 club.

 

It will also have the spectre of a company that has traded insolvently with the potential additional points penalty that it might bring.

 

Three of the clubs previous directors are charged with cheating the public revenue so could also land the club with additional points deductions (Luton) - and maybe not in the next season but beyond that.

 

The club will be renting it's ground which will give it cash flow problems for years to come (Palace) - or someone will have to stump up another ~£10M+ to get the ground.

 

The club's squad will likely have been decimated or they will be paying silly money to buy Prem players out of contracts (unless their contracts state a big drop if relegated).

 

They will likely have dipped into the their first year's parachute payment which I believe the Premier League has said it will pay directly to debtors so Chainrai can't get his hands on this easily.

 

For these reasons I'm not sure Chainrai is sitting pretty OR there is something that hasn't yet come to light that will make this all make sense.

 

The administrator can disclaim (ie cancel) any player contracts immediately, should he wish.

[View From The Top]

So can you help me see his end game?

 

An end game that gets him somewhere near the £17M he loaned them - or is this "he's played a blinder to have got a fraction of his money back with a promise of rent on a stadium he owns with the potential that he might be able to sell the land at some point down the road."?

 

Sorry to be thick but it doesn't add up YET in my head.

 

If, as it would appear, he's a secured creditor, and allowing for all the Sky money still due, plus player sales etc, he'll get the bulk of his initial outlay back from the administrator. By shifting the ownership of FP he'll still own that and so also gain the rent from it or be in a position to sell it back to whoever buys the club.

[benjii]

He'll use the parachute payment money to cover his costs of funding administration.

 

He's played a blinder.

 

Not really.

 

The administrator will have control of all the money coming in and going out, including the parachute payments. They will not go straight into Chanrai's pockets. They are, of course, relevant to any deal that is cut between the creditors and any potential buyer - and Chanrai, being owner of the ground and possibly the largest secured creditor is in the best position when it comes to those negotiations.

[benjii]

Agree with most of that except yoou have misundestood the spin regarding the wording "costs of administration".

 

That is pretty much going to be the administrators FEES, not the running cost of the business in admin.

 

Exactly.

 

If any skate fans think Chanrai is going to keep paying David James £50k a week until a buyer shows up I think they will be mistaken.

[dubai_phil]

The administrator can disclaim (ie cancel) any player contracts immediately, should he wish.

 

 

Hmmmmmm

 

In that case

 

Why the feck didn't Fry cancel

 

Wotton

Saga

James

Morgan

 

delete as appropriate to your opinions of the players at the time

 

[dubai_phil]

Exactly.

 

If any skate fans think Chanrai is going to keep paying David James £50k a week until a buyer shows up I think they will be mistaken.

 

But you can bet that the Chairmen of clubs in the bottom 6 at the moment will be voting to make sure the PL give enough funds to the Administrator in advance to ensure that James can play against the likes of Burnley and others.....

 

Cannot see Sunderland for example voting to let them play an academy team against Burnley. Those clubs will want them to be able to play their strongest team in such matches...

 

[saintbletch]

If, as it would appear, he's a secured creditor, and allowing for all the Sky money still due, plus player sales etc, he'll get the bulk of his initial outlay back from the administrator. By shifting the ownership of FP he'll still own that and so also gain the rent from it or be in a position to sell it back to whoever buys the club.

 

Right, so I can see that he's played a blinder to mitigate his losses. But he's still a long way down on his £17M.

 

If we can believe anything we read then he converted £10M of his £17M charge to the ownership of the stadium. Which means his secured creditor status is on the remaining £7M (an assumption here by me).

 

However, my understanding is the administrator is working for the good (yes I know) of all creditors not just the secured creditors with senior debts. And the administrator should be looking if possible to put the club back to being a solvent going concern which when sold (yes I know) would raise the most money to repay the creditors.

 

I also believe that Sky will drip feed any advanced parachute payment to meet debts as they are due, so that "income" will be tied to a specific expense.

 

So I'm not sure that the administrator is going to allow Chainrai to take his cash leaving a shell. He might be forced into that but that won't be what he's aiming for I'm sure.

[saintbletch]

Agree with most of that except yoou have misundestood the spin regarding the wording "costs of administration".

 

That is pretty much going to be the administrators FEES, not the running cost of the business in admin.

 

You're right! I did. Still not an inconsiderable amount if they're in admin for a while but then the Parachute money is going to be eaten into at a rate of £3M/month (that's before contracts get...what was the word..disclaimed).

[benjii]

Hmmmmmm

 

In that case

 

Why the feck didn't Fry cancel

 

Wotton

Saga

James

Morgan

 

delete as appropriate to your opinions of the players at the time

 

 

Haha.

 

We still had something to play for. They, er, well they really don't!

[benjii]

Come to think of it, I've no idea what the PL or FL would make of that? Maybe they have some sort of footballing debt rule that covers that and makes it extremely unpalatable? No idea. I can't imagine it would be much worse than what's going to happen anyway!

[ART]

Now this Skate saga is coming to a conclusion, isn't there anyone going to start a new thread on the breaking Bournemouth winding up to be Saga. Just how far is this all going to go before the f u ck ing powers that be do something once and for all and clean up the mess the games gotten into.

 

You could quite easily think this is a Southern sickness hitting the game spreading right along Britain's southern coastline.

[krissyboy31]

But aren't the players contracts the only true assets the club has left? It's not like making the tea-lady or the kit-man redundant. If they discharge the playing staff, they are diluting an already weak hand, are they not?

[suewhistle]

Are you just acting thick?

 

Judging by most of the internet evidence I;ve seen(being a bit far from UK TV) you can leave out the "acting" for almost all of them.

[Gemmel]

But aren't the players contracts the only true assets the club has left? It's not like making the tea-lady or the kit-man redundant. If they discharge the playing staff, they are diluting an already weak hand, are they not?

 

Yeah but they are relegated already , so why bother paying players .....only to still be relegated

[saintbletch]

But aren't the players contracts the only true assets the club has left? It's not like making the tea-lady or the kit-man redundant. If they discharge the playing staff, they are diluting an already weak hand, are they not?

 

Agreed. Which is why it will be a last resort for those with any form of saleable value and may be exercised quickly for big earners near the end of their contract with little realisable value.

 

But we're also forgetting the players' good will here. I'm sure there will be a long line of players outside the administrators office tomorrow morning offering to play for free for the rest of the season.

[krissyboy31]

Yeah but they are relegated already , so why bother paying players .....only to still be relegated

 

I'm thinking more along the lines of realising creditors debt. I know not many of them are worth a lot, but a couple of hundred grand here, half a million there, is better than letting them go for nowt.

[S-Clarke]

Now this Skate saga is coming to a conclusion, isn't there anyone going to start a new thread on the breaking Bournemouth winding up to be Saga. Just how far is this all going to go before the f u ck ing powers that be do something once and for all and clean up the mess the games gotten into.

 

You could quite easily think this is a Southern sickness hitting the game spreading right along Britain's southern coastline.

 

just seen that - apparently they have 200k outstanding in tax, and are 800k in debt.

 

that may seem a small sum to us, but a club like b'mouth have no way at all of paying that off at the moment. May be the end for them if they don't raise outside funds within 4 weeks...

[Viking Warrior]

As a law abiding tax payer. does PFC's imminent step into administration mean they will not have to pay their due taxes or are the HMRC classed as a footballing creditor.

 

Also as PFC are an insolvent company, wouldnt it be just our luck if they went on to win the FA Cup.

 

The PL and FL and FA need to clean up their act very quickly.

This whole PFC saga stinks.

[ART]

just seen that - apparently they have 200k outstanding in tax, and are 800k in debt.

 

that may seem a small sum to us, but a club like b'mouth have no way at all of paying that off at the moment. May be the end for them if they don't raise outside funds within 4 weeks...

 

This would be a golden opportunity for Marcus and Nicolas to propose merging Saints Reserves with Bournemouth Football Club. I've longed to see clubs being allowed to enter their Reserve team into the League. Anything Rupert could do, then I'm sure Marcus could do better. We had the first Radio station and a first class match day catering experience, so why not a first at merging the Reserves with another local club. Let's go for it and make things Cherry Red.

[Matthew Le God]

This would be a golden opportunity for Marcus and Nicolas to propose merging Saints Reserves with Bournemouth Football Club. I've longed to see clubs being allowed to enter their Reserve team into the League. Anything Rupert could do, then I'm sure Marcus could do better. We had the first Radio station and a first class match day catering experience, so why not a first at merging the Reserves with another local club. Let's go for it and make things Cherry Red.

 

Would require a change in the rules as atm this can't happen.

[DrZuess1979 the 2nd]

just seen that - apparently they have 200k outstanding in tax, and are 800k in debt.

 

that may seem a small sum to us, but a club like b'mouth have no way at all of paying that off at the moment. May be the end for them if they don't raise outside funds within 4 weeks...

 

I heard from the son of the current owner (eddie) that the dept was being "well managed",

 

and that it would be paid of come end of the season.

[Saint Keith]

cutbacks are happening already

 

quote from fridays daily mail

 

"The new reality will start when the players fly on budget airline Flybe for £47.99 each to the game at Burnley tomorrow"

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1253884/Portsmouth-fly-new-reality-administration-means-immediate-cut-backs-point-penalty.html

[ART]

cutbacks are happening already

 

quote from fridays daily mail

 

"The new reality will start when the players fly on budget airline Flybe for £47.99 each to the game at Burnley tomorrow"

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1253884/Portsmouth-fly-new-reality-administration-means-immediate-cut-backs-point-penalty.html

 

 

I love the bit about the additional 15 points deducted next season if they haven't cleared things up by the end of the season. That really warms the c o ck les of my heart.

[BigShadow]

cutbacks are happening already

 

quote from fridays daily mail

 

"The new reality will start when the players fly on budget airline Flybe for £47.99 each to the game at Burnley tomorrow"

 

That's not a cutback - they should be taking National Express.

[Saint Keith]

That's not a cutback - they should be taking National Express.

 

i wonder if they're staying in a 5 star hotel

 

 

oh, its burnley, there arent any

[Saint Fan CaM]

OK - so there's still one thing I am still not clear about. Chanrai - why is he still in the picture other than as a vulture circling waiting to pick off the bones? The media still talk about him as being the owner, but surely as the club is in administration, there is no owner until a buyer is found?

 

I guess Chanrai is only continuing to put money in to ensure the club survives so there is an entity for him to sell the ground to. Gaymark is in a pretty weak position with only some land to sell which is pretty useless unless the club is bought, invested heavily in and the ground developed.

 

What a mess! lol

[Saint_clark]

I'm fully expecting to wake in the morning to nice big headlines about how Pompey are in admin.

[Draino76]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDSKEsoUMeA

[scottzoo]

DIE B@stards

[scottzoo]

[BTW Saint]

Avram Grant and Portsmouth players consider pay cuts to save jobs

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/feb/26/avram-grant-portsmouth-players-pay-cut

 

A little late!!

 

Another article in printed Guardian Q&A What next at Fratton Park (sport page 5) asks the questions Who will be paid first and Where will the money come from?

 

The answer to the second part says "

Around £10m could be deducted from Chainrai's debt if a proposed deal on the sale and leaseback of the ground is concluded, while a further £5m in TV income is due before the end of the season. Any other money will have to be realised from the sale of the club"

 

I believed the lease was already in place?

 

 

 

 

Have serached for above on internet, however cannot find online

 

When searching for above found this useful summary although expect may have posted on Wed.

 

http://thepompeychimes.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55761

 

Also article in Guardian by Owen Gibbons critical of PL and FA for failing to regulate debt and prevent issues at Portsmouth, West Ham etc

[slickmick]

What has happened to the very elusive Al Faraj ? Does he actually exist ?

Something about this part of it that is bugging me.

[dubai_phil]

What has happened to the very elusive Al Faraj ? Does he actually exist ?

Something about this part of it that is bugging me.

 

That's the ONLY part of this whole affair that bugs you?

 

Perhaps starting earlier with Sacha his record of companies going bust and why everything was a loan not "his own money" is the place to start

[sussexsaint]

Sorry , so many posts to trawl through as couldn't get on yestrday as my nipper is sick - is there any possibility at all that they will be denied the option of admin and /or have to go to court on Monday?

 

I am sorry to ask such a basic question again

[teamsaint]

There seems to be some funny stuff going on.

AS far as I am aware, when a company goes into aministration, the administrator comes in and Does the following: gets of everybody and everything that isn't immediately essential to keep the business afloat, or who doesn't help bring cash in.

Football clubs are slightly different in that the players contracts need to be honoured as they are a football debt, and need to be honoured for the golden share.

 

Yet at poopey, storyteller gets to stay, (Why? he's just a cost) chainrai still seems to be pulling strings, ( presumably because his money is one of the few sources of income that the administrator has).

 

All smells of a pre arranged deal.

[saintbletch]

There seems to be some funny stuff going on.

AS far as I am aware, when a company goes into aministration, the administrator comes in and Does the following: gets of everybody and everything that isn't immediately essential to keep the business afloat, or who doesn't help bring cash in.

Football clubs are slightly different in that the players contracts need to be honoured as they are a football debt, and need to be honoured for the golden share.

 

Yet at poopey, storyteller gets to stay, (Why? he's just a cost) chainrai still seems to be pulling strings, ( presumably because his money is one of the few sources of income that the administrator has).

 

All smells of a pre arranged deal.

 

I think all administrations are different but one principle applies - that the administrator is trying to maximise the return to the creditors.

 

So if by keeping on expensive staff (players) meant that the business was more of an attractive proposition to buy then he'd do that as it's not just about cost. Perhaps Storrie is so admired in footballing circles that the administrator thinks he has to have him as part of the company.

 

BUT IMO you're right and as was discussed on here last night, there is something that doesn't quite add up about the continued involvement of the owners and directors going into administration. It does smell like the company won't be in admin for very long and the same people will get a chance to wipe the slate clean and start again.

[Channon's Sideburns]

There seems to be some funny stuff going on.

AS far as I am aware, when a company goes into aministration, the administrator comes in and Does the following: gets of everybody and everything that isn't immediately essential to keep the business afloat, or who doesn't help bring cash in.

Football clubs are slightly different in that the players contracts need to be honoured as they are a football debt, and need to be honoured for the golden share.

 

Yet at poopey, storyteller gets to stay, (Why? he's just a cost) chainrai still seems to be pulling strings, ( presumably because his money is one of the few sources of income that the administrator has).

 

All smells of a pre arranged deal.

 

Spot on.

 

Solent are live from Fratton this morning...(must be the biggest crowd all season :-D )- haven't had my text read out yet....

 

Go Team HMRC - hit the fooookers hard this morning if you get a chance to present.

 

Love the way Solent and all contributors are overlooking the fact that they haven't had their administration approved yet.

 

God I so hope they get their come-uppence later.

 

Live Phone In on Solent tonight between 7 & 8.....

[pedg]

So I guess the question is what are the options open to HMRC today? Can they legally stop the administration from happening? If so how? If they can't what can they do besides vote against any resultant CVA?

[miserableoldgit]

There seems to be some funny stuff going on.

AS far as I am aware, when a company goes into aministration, the administrator comes in and Does the following: gets of everybody and everything that isn't immediately essential to keep the business afloat, or who doesn't help bring cash in.

Football clubs are slightly different in that the players contracts need to be honoured as they are a football debt, and need to be honoured for the golden share.

 

Yet at poopey, storyteller gets to stay, (Why? he's just a cost) chainrai still seems to be pulling strings, ( presumably because his money is one of the few sources of income that the administrator has).

 

All smells of a pre arranged deal.

He needs to stay to clear all of the skeletons that are hiding in cupboards at FP.

[Winchester Red]

Even if they accept the 20 point penalty for no CVA they only save the HMRC and some small debt. All the rest has to be paid

 

How is this wiping the slate clean?

 

Different people have different motives....

 

Chainrai wants his cash back. Maybe that will involve buying the club back to get what's left of the parachutes and letting it go bust next year. Who knows?

 

Storrie, well who knows (other than avoiding the books being passes to the revenue). He lives in cloud cuckoo land anyway

 

Sasha. Is there a debt there or not

 

Pompey are going to plummet, if they survive

 

yep, they're getting away with it....

[sidthesquid]

OK OK, I haven't been on here for the last couple of days, can someone explain what this is about Chainrai trying to walk away with all the money and the HMRC being wise to it?

(Before someone says I should have been more dedicated, there is a perfectly valid reason why I haven't paid much attention).

 

I could have sworn you were on the main site yesterday.......

[Toadhall Saint]

What has happened to the very elusive Al Faraj ? Does he actually exist ?

Something about this part of it that is bugging me.

 

Tell you what bugs me - the potential that they could still get £30 mil of parachute payments!

[slickmick]

What has happened to the very elusive Al Faraj ? Does he actually exist ?

Something about this part of it that is bugging me.

 

That's the ONLY part of this whole affair that bugs you?

 

Perhaps starting earlier with Sacha his record of companies going bust and why everything was a loan not "his own money" is the place to start

 

 

I'm finding the whole damn lot of it confusing.

 

What if Faraj was non existant and the name was used by Chanrai to manoeuvre himself into the position of secured creditor ?

 

Nurse....help.....I forgot my medicine.??:

[saintmonkey1979]

Spot on.

 

Solent are live from Fratton this morning...(must be the biggest crowd all season :-D )- haven't had my text read out yet....

 

Go Team HMRC - hit the fooookers hard this morning if you get a chance to present.

 

Love the way Solent and all contributors are overlooking the fact that they haven't had their administration approved yet.

 

God I so hope they get their come-uppence later.

 

Live Phone In on Solent tonight between 7 & 8.....

 

This was what I was wondering. Will HMRC be present at the High Court to put a case forward? Will we all get to find out what the SoA contains today ahead of mondays proposed hearing? And will the court appoint an administor given the nature of recent events, and if administration is even seen to be a viable option given the level of dept that has evidently been accumulating? S many questions ??:

[BadgerBadger]

What a great quote from the Q and A on Pompeys adminon the BBC site:

 

it is an indebted Championship team in a shabby stadium with almost no corporate seating, a battered credit rating and a murky recent ownership structure

[Winchester Red]

Tony Gale on SSN just refered to PFC buying the FA Cup

 

First time I've heard someone on national TV actually say what everyone else thinks

[INFLUENCED.COM]

Tony Gale on SSN just refered to PFC buying the FA Cup

 

And not being able to keep up the repayments, under other circumstances such a purchase would have been repossessed