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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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Kingsland Red

Kingsland Red

Posted
Posted
Sky News; Admin inevitable prob Friday, mondays hearing wont go ahead, PL WILL help, PL will not be advancing money but will pay creditors directly as and when moneys are due to club!

 

The media only react to info passed to them and at the moment Chainrai (and Storrie?) have a free platform.

Don't underestimate the Revenue who have elected not to comment until this Friday.

 

(The only significance of 1st March is as the earliest date the court is available after the revenue deadline for commenting on the SoA on 19 February, not a deadline for Pompey to find funds albeit they appear to be treating it as such)

 

5th paragraph:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/portsmouth/7300078/Portsmouth-serve-notice-of-administration.html

 

I would expect HMRC to have some considerable input !

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Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

Posted
Posted
Sky News; Admin inevitable prob Friday, mondays hearing wont go ahead, PL WILL help, PL will not be advancing money but will pay creditors directly as and when moneys are due to club!

 

How is that helping then. No money advances, and they dish out the money themselves to the creditors.

 

HMRC and other creditors are still in exactly the same boat. I don't think they will find it straightforward going into administration.

 

God knows where Sky get their sources. Remember the Pinnacle/Fialka saga, remember the reports about South Africans. They are just being spoon fed bullsh*t from Storrie in my opinion, to try and keep the fans off his back.

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

it's going to take the administrator ages to make sense of the chaos, especially if Storrie stays on to 'help''.

 

What will they have left to sell and for how much?

So the one attraction at the moment is the Sky money, if the Prem plunders future tv revenue to clear the debts there's nothing else to buy.

The problems of tax and football debts are still there, as others have said this move, if accepted by the court, just shafts the locals.

 

We have only had the club version of events thus far so let's see what the court and taxman make of it....that aside.....

 

Football debts - Sol will be fine, even things like Avram's back pay now need to be sorted before they can play next season, and though the Muntari money is outside of the regs, uefa will go ape if they don't sort it.

 

 

I assume the administrator will consider money more use than points so I see them taking points penalties and clearing the minimum tax debt they can get away with.

 

2010/11 - guess-timates!

New running costs per month for a much reduced squad etc - £1M?

Monthly income - £500K?

TV money - used to clear old football debt - £0

 

so we have for sale

 

A lightweight-squad championship club with no assets, and likely to lose £6M a year, for £35M (tax and football)?

 

A lightweight-squad championship club with a huge points penalty, no assets, losing £6M a year - yours for £20M (football debt and a dash of tax)?

 

A lightweight-squad championship club with a huge points penalty, no assets, losing

£10M a year - yours for £15M (football debt and a dash of tax re-structured)?

 

The third scenario pricing makes it look more attractive to keen local investors.

But for £25M, in a year you will have a league one side with no assets.

By the time you have gone through £35M you may have stabilised the club in the third tier and if you find the investor that has thus far eluded them, you could be ready to pay another £30M for the surrounding land and buy the ground back.

You can then build the new stadium and increase revenues.

By this point you will have paid out £175M for a league one team that can challenge for promotion to the championship.

If it makes it to the Prem and you can stay up with your youth team squad it should only take about ten years to get into profit, then it'll be a little goldmine!

 

 

That's without considering financial irregularities, tax evasion, trading insolvently etc.

 

 

 

What a bargain.

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bridge too far

bridge too far

Posted
Posted
it's going to take the administrator ages to make sense of the chaos, especially if Storrie stays on to 'help''.

 

What will they have left to sell and for how much?

So the one attraction at the moment is the Sky money, if the Prem plunders future tv revenue to clear the debts there's nothing else to buy.

The problems of tax and football debts are still there, as others have said this move, if accepted by the court, just shafts the locals.

 

We have only had the club version of events thus far so let's see what the court and taxman make of it....that aside.....

 

Football debts - Sol will be fine, even things like Avram's back pay now need to be sorted before they can play next season, and though the Muntari money is outside of the regs, uefa will go ape if they don't sort it.

 

 

I assume the administrator will consider money more use than points so I see them taking points penalties and clearing the minimum tax debt they can get away with.

 

2010/11 - guess-timates!

New running costs per month for a much reduced squad etc - £1M?

Monthly income - £500K?

TV money - used to clear old football debt - £0

 

so we have for sale

 

A lightweight-squad championship club with no assets, and likely to lose £6M a year, for £35M (tax and football)?

 

A lightweight-squad championship club with a huge points penalty, no assets, losing £6M a year - yours for £20M (football debt and a dash of tax)?

 

A lightweight-squad championship club with a huge points penalty, no assets, losing

£10M a year - yours for £15M (football debt and a dash of tax re-structured)?

 

The third scenario pricing makes it look more attractive to keen local investors.

But for £25M, in a year you will have a league one side with no assets.

By the time you have gone through £35M you may have stabilised the club in the third tier and if you find the investor that has thus far eluded them, you could be ready to pay another £30M for the surrounding land and buy the ground back.

You can then build the new stadium and increase revenues.

By this point you will have paid out £175M for a league one team that can challenge for promotion to the championship.

If it makes it to the Prem and you can stay up with your youth team squad it should only take about ten years to get into profit, then it'll be a little goldmine!

 

 

That's without considering financial irregularities, tax evasion, trading insolvently etc.

 

 

 

What a bargain.

 

The rent for the stadium will be £1m a month, surely? And then there'll be player wages, director wages and staff wages on top.

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Winchester Red

Winchester Red

Posted
Posted (edited)
it's going to take the administrator ages to make sense of the chaos, especially if Storrie stays on to 'help''.

 

What will they have left to sell and for how much?

So the one attraction at the moment is the Sky money, if the Prem plunders future tv revenue to clear the debts there's nothing else to buy.

The problems of tax and football debts are still there, as others have said this move, if accepted by the court, just shafts the locals.

 

We have only had the club version of events thus far so let's see what the court and taxman make of it....that aside.....

 

Football debts - Sol will be fine, even things like Avram's back pay now need to be sorted before they can play next season, and though the Muntari money is outside of the regs, uefa will go ape if they don't sort it.

 

 

I assume the administrator will consider money more use than points so I see them taking points penalties and clearing the minimum tax debt they can get away with.

 

2010/11 - guess-timates!

New running costs per month for a much reduced squad etc - £1M?

Monthly income - £500K?

TV money - used to clear old football debt - £0

 

so we have for sale

 

A lightweight-squad championship club with no assets, and likely to lose £6M a year, for £35M (tax and football)?

 

A lightweight-squad championship club with a huge points penalty, no assets, losing £6M a year - yours for £20M (football debt and a dash of tax)?

 

A lightweight-squad championship club with a huge points penalty, no assets, losing

£10M a year - yours for £15M (football debt and a dash of tax re-structured)?

 

The third scenario pricing makes it look more attractive to keen local investors.

But for £25M, in a year you will have a league one side with no assets.

By the time you have gone through £35M you may have stabilised the club in the third tier and if you find the investor that has thus far eluded them, you could be ready to pay another £30M for the surrounding land and buy the ground back.

You can then build the new stadium and increase revenues.

By this point you will have paid out £175M for a league one team that can challenge for promotion to the championship.

If it makes it to the Prem and you can stay up with your youth team squad it should only take about ten years to get into profit, then it'll be a little goldmine!

 

 

That's without considering financial irregularities, tax evasion, trading insolvently etc.

 

 

 

What a bargain.

 

Well done - well put

 

As I've said at least 10 times already, this isn't the saving of PFC, it's a very slow and very painful death.

 

Chainrai will have the last laugh. Don't try and pull the wool over the eyes of a money lender!

Edited by Winchester Red
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Winchester Red

Winchester Red

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hmmmmmmm

 

The PL will pay football creditors as they become due huh!?

 

That's this months wages taken care of then.

 

...and if they're going to do that all the way to the end of the June, then that 's a parachute and a half gone then...... oustanding agents fees...... outstanding transfers fees..... sol.....?

 

Is 2 parachute payments enough?

Edited by Winchester Red
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sidthesquid

sidthesquid

Posted
Posted
342 pages lol. Anyone would think we are Pompey fans.

 

Not enough spouting of hatred on here to correct that either.... :smt066

 

Not that im one to provoke aggression or owt' :D ;)

 

I think we've just got involved in our own little soap opera here. Last year it was equally fascinating, but ultimately too personal, too painful to really enjoy, but this is just fun. T

here are panto villains by the score, brave officers of the law, well HMRC anyway, poor downtrodden victims like PES & Mero, and always another twist or subplot to keep you interested.

This thread could easily make 1000 pages & 50000 posts over the next year or two before Storrie, Redflaps & co are banged up, gaydy junior joins the old man in being extradited to Israel & Poopey finally drop out of league 2 following a home thrashing by Dagenham & Redbridge.

(And incidentally, being the sad obsessive that I am, I had a look on the skate page on 606 last night and there were more Saints fans passing comment than there were skates! To all those lads - come on over here - you don't know the fun your missing.)

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sidthesquid

sidthesquid

Posted
Posted
Hmmmmmmm

 

The PL will pay football creditors as they become due huh!?

 

That's this months wages taken care of then.

 

...and if they're going to do that all the way to the end of the June, then that 's a parachute and a half gone then...... oustanding agents fees...... outstanding transfers fees..... sol.....?

 

Is 2 parachute payments enough?

 

Forgive me if I'm being dense, but a) does a club in admin even get parachute payments & b) if it does, wouldn't they have to go to the creditors to pay off debts rather than funding a still-insolvent company, even if it's being run by an administrator?

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Winchester Red

Winchester Red

Posted
Posted
Forgive me if I'm being dense, but a) does a club in admin even get parachute payments & b) if it does, wouldn't they have to go to the creditors to pay off debts rather than funding a still-insolvent company, even if it's being run by an administrator?

 

A PL club has never gone into administration so it has never been tested. I guess it depends on what the PL decide their rules are today.

 

In this case though, absolutely not as they're all going to have been spent by June

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Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

Posted
Posted
Forgive me if I'm being dense, but a) does a club in admin even get parachute payments & b) if it does, wouldn't they have to go to the creditors to pay off debts rather than funding a still-insolvent company, even if it's being run by an administrator?

 

What annoys me is this scenario -

 

They've already borrowed against their future TV revenue, they go into admin, pay x pence in the pound to settle this debt, and then get their full entitlement of TV money.

 

It stinks, and can't be allowed to happen. They should be liquidated.

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
What annoys me is this scenario -

 

They've already borrowed against their future TV revenue, they go into admin, pay x pence in the pound to settle this debt, and then get their full entitlement of TV money.

 

It stinks, and can't be allowed to happen. They should be liquidated.

Wasn't that the money that was to go to Chainrai in return for his 'investment', hence the "they can't do that with MY money" when the last lot got diverted by the EPL to pay oustanding transfers ?

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted

Reading the stuff about the pre pack administration and I can see why Storrie says he will still be at the club.That system is a cheats charter and is a very unjust way of business practice. Yes it is nice for people to keep their jobs but what about the companies employees who may lose theirs due to bad debts.

If it was saints i would be ashamed, and I was when we went into admin as a lot of small companies lost out.

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SO16_Saint

SO16_Saint

Posted
Posted
it's going to take the administrator ages to make sense of the chaos, especially if Storrie stays on to 'help''.

 

What will they have left to sell and for how much?

So the one attraction at the moment is the Sky money, if the Prem plunders future tv revenue to clear the debts there's nothing else to buy.

The problems of tax and football debts are still there, as others have said this move, if accepted by the court, just shafts the locals.

 

We have only had the club version of events thus far so let's see what the court and taxman make of it....that aside.....

 

Football debts - Sol will be fine, even things like Avram's back pay now need to be sorted before they can play next season, and though the Muntari money is outside of the regs, uefa will go ape if they don't sort it.

 

 

I assume the administrator will consider money more use than points so I see them taking points penalties and clearing the minimum tax debt they can get away with.

 

2010/11 - guess-timates!

New running costs per month for a much reduced squad etc - £1M?

Monthly income - £500K?

TV money - used to clear old football debt - £0

 

so we have for sale

 

A lightweight-squad championship club with no assets, and likely to lose £6M a year, for £35M (tax and football)?

 

A lightweight-squad championship club with a huge points penalty, no assets, losing £6M a year - yours for £20M (football debt and a dash of tax)?

 

A lightweight-squad championship club with a huge points penalty, no assets, losing

£10M a year - yours for £15M (football debt and a dash of tax re-structured)?

 

The third scenario pricing makes it look more attractive to keen local investors.

But for £25M, in a year you will have a league one side with no assets.

By the time you have gone through £35M you may have stabilised the club in the third tier and if you find the investor that has thus far eluded them, you could be ready to pay another £30M for the surrounding land and buy the ground back.

You can then build the new stadium and increase revenues.

By this point you will have paid out £175M for a league one team that can challenge for promotion to the championship.

If it makes it to the Prem and you can stay up with your youth team squad it should only take about ten years to get into profit, then it'll be a little goldmine!

 

 

That's without considering financial irregularities, tax evasion, trading insolvently etc.

 

 

 

What a bargain.

 

sooooooo.......

 

Liquidation - Quick and pain free death (Dignitas)

Administration - Long and painfull death (Storie is an ass)

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krissyboy31

krissyboy31

Posted
Posted
Reading the stuff about the pre pack administration and I can see why Storrie says he will still be at the club.That system is a cheats charter and is a very unjust way of business practice. Yes it is nice for people to keep their jobs but what about the companies employees who may lose theirs due to bad debts.

If it was saints i would be ashamed, and I was when we went into admin as a lot of small companies lost out.

 

I'm pretty sure the footballing authorities might have something to say about Storrie keeping his position once all of the documentation has been picked over.

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Joensuu

Joensuu

Posted
Posted (edited)

What's the concensus on here? Would we rather see the few given a quick death, and get re-born in the Zamaretto as a historyless shell, or for them to have their death dragged out over the next 5 years, as they are slowly abandoned by their few remaining fans, and flop down the table?

 

I'm undecided.

 

 

Oh, and while you're trying to decide, take a gander at this article... http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/portsmouth/article7039197.ece

 

"Scudamore explained that he could not sanction an emergency payment of next season’s broadcast revenue to save the club from administration"

Edited by Joensuu
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JackFrost

JackFrost

Posted
Posted
I have only one question....

 

They need to petition / apply to the courts for administration.

 

Since they already have a winding up order 'live' at the courts, what are the chances that the court will deny their application for admin?

 

Is it likely, and does it happen / has it happened to other companies?

 

This is what a lot of people thought, but apparently a secured creditor can put them in administration without the court's approval, and what many people are asking is, what is the precise role of Chainrai in all of this?

 

The media have already reported that going into administration will postpone the WUO, but whether a High court judge can block admin (at HMRC's request) is what a lot of people including me want confirmed

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solentstars

solentstars

Posted
Posted
Just seen that. A guy named Mike Hall from the PFC Supporters Trust (could well have been Mero) said (paraphrased) that the "Plan B they've got, to start a new football club is going to have to be moved right up the agenda. There is not anybody involved in this situation that has got a real desire to keep PFC trading. They want their money out and they've got a strategy to get their money out and you can paint as much PR on it as you like they just want their money out and if there's no PFC come September, I put no value to statements on how emotionally attached anybody is to this football club, not the none of the Directors, none of the people running it, none of the major creditors, none have any emotional attachment to this football club. Only we [the fans] have."
thats the way i see it,thats why chanria will pay the 3 million admin costs ,once he gets the parachute payments etc ,he will pull out and leave a shell of a company.
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Faz

Faz

Posted
Posted
This is what a lot of people thought, but apparently a secured creditor can put them in administration without the court's approval, and what many people are asking is, what is the precise role of Chainrai in all of this?

 

The media have already reported that going into administration will postpone the WUO, but whether a High court judge can block admin (at HMRC's request) is what a lot of people including me want confirmed

 

There are too many people doing their day job, when they should be on here answering these questions FFS.

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted

Just wondering about the rent that Chainrai can charge on FP. If you rent a house then maintaining it is usually an expense for the owner. If Chainrai owns FP and rents it back would he then be required to pay for its maintenance, etc (After all the paint you can apply direct to rust does not come cheap!). Could mean that though he may charge 1M a year he may well not see all of that?

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted

If the judge has ordered the Soa because she thought they were trading illegally , it seems a nonsense the said company can trade on (illegally) only then to pull the plug just before the day of judgement.

Then able to move on without any investigation to trade again, without that debt.

Surely the judge has to view and judge whether she was correct or not?

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted

Some contradictory evidence that the PL will help pompey out??

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/portsmouth/article7039197.ece

 

Portsmouth were told by the Premier League last night that there is no way it can bail out the financially-stricken club.

Also guess who is trying to keep their job?

 

Peter Storrie, Portsmouth's chief executive, confirmed the club had already begun talks with an administrator and that he is prepared to take a substantial pay cut to improve the club's financial fortunes. Storrie is one of the highest-paid chief executives in the Premier League.

"I have already spoken to the administrator and he wants to keep things settled, which means me staying on,"

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andysstuff

andysstuff

Posted
Posted
Just wondering about the rent that Chainrai can charge on FP. If you rent a house then maintaining it is usually an expense for the owner. If Chainrai owns FP and rents it back would he then be required to pay for its maintenance, etc (After all the paint you can apply direct to rust does not come cheap!). Could mean that though he may charge 1M a year he may well not see all of that?

 

Most commercial rents are on a full repairing and insuring basis - i.e. the tenant is responsible for repairing and insuring the building.

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted

Where is Clapham and Bucks Saint? They both must come up against such things but have gone AWOL, come back we need your insight (not saying some others on here have not, but these are professionals in this field) Even if you use another name, come back

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derry

derry

Posted
Posted
£1m per year. Even Chainrai wouldn't get away with charging £12m a year rent when he acquired the ground for £10m :lol:

 

Steve, can HMRC if they believe the administration to be inappropriate challenge in a higher court, ie injunction pending a hearing.

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
Most commercial rents are on a full repairing and insuring basis - i.e. the tenant is responsible for repairing and insuring the building.

 

 

Ah, I see, so it will probably be down to pompey lite to buy the hammerite to stop the stands collapsing.

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GenevaSaint

GenevaSaint

Posted
Posted

From the P*mpey News website....

 

Q: What happens next?

 

A: On Friday, the club will file its intention to appoint an administrator with the courts. It then has two weeks to enter administration officially, by returning to court with details of the firm which will administrate Pompey, and filing for full administration.

 

Now I'm confused. As soon as they give notice to enter administration are they immediately docked 9 points? What if they avoid the WUO court appointment and someone then gave a cash injection before the two weeks are up for offical administration. Once notice is given are they legally obliged to enter admin ? Could they avoid administration and the WUO court date?

 

I know they're unlikely to find a suitor in that time given how long it took us, but that would really suck.......

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ericofarabia

ericofarabia

Posted
Posted

 

"We believe that allowing the club to collapse would do lasting damage to the economy around this part of Hampshire," claimed Lord Mandelson, "Without the club, there was be a sudden loss of demand for beer, blue coloured clothes, tattoo parlours and bells. And where would all those sailors on shore leave go?"

 

:D

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
"We believe that allowing the club to collapse would do lasting damage to the economy around this part of Hampshire," claimed Lord Mandelson, "Without the club, there was be a sudden loss of demand for beer, blue coloured clothes, tattoo parlours and bells. And where would all those sailors on shore leave go?"

 

:D

 

My favourite was the last line.

 

"Portsmouth currently lie bottom of the Premier League and are, effectively, screwed. "

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
"We believe that allowing the club to collapse would do lasting damage to the economy around this part of Hampshire," claimed Lord Mandelson, "Without the club, there was be a sudden loss of demand for beer, blue coloured clothes, tattoo parlours and bells. And where would all those sailors on shore leave go?"

 

:D

my favourite bit is the girl advertising 'Have you got debt problems'
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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted

Not sure if this link has gone on here yet :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mattslater/2010/02/portsmouth_fc_in_crisis_qa.html

 

Includes the following "

Q: Who will be the administrator?

A: This is still unclear, but we know it will not be Nick O'Reilly, the man who prepared the club's recent "statement of affairs". This document was the financial reckoning Portsmouth had to submit to court last week and it would have contained all the gory details (debts of £70m, a tax bill of £12m and rising, and a see-the-season-out estimate of £20m), as well as his opinion on the outcomes, in terms of money returned to creditors, of administration and liquidation.

Chainrai either disliked O'Reilly's candour or he balked at his quote, which is believed to have been £1m. This may seem like another professional's attempt to wring money from the club, but it should be remembered an administrator becomes liable for the company's debts and businesses in administration have proved they are not that great at paying those.

To not use the expert who did your statement of affairs as your administrator is unusual and should ring alarm chimes. But then this is the club that pleaded poverty to the other 19 Premier League clubs in January shortly before signing Quincy Owusu-Abeyie and Dusko Tosic."

 

And this "

Q: Why has this happened now?

A: Because Pompey, and all its owners and ex-owners, have run out of more attractive options. The "next idiot" production line is on the blink.

 

It takes weeks to buy something as complicated as a football club (and that is just the solvent ones) as any prospective new owner would want to know exactly what he or she is buying. In Pompey's case, it is an indebted Championship team in a shabby stadium with almost no corporate seating, a battered credit rating and a murky recent ownership structure. Do not be fooled by talk of talks."

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Kingsland Red

Kingsland Red

Posted
Posted
If the judge has ordered the Soa because she thought they were trading illegally , it seems a nonsense the said company can trade on (illegally) only then to pull the plug just before the day of judgement.

Then able to move on without any investigation to trade again, without that debt.

Surely the judge has to view and judge whether she was correct or not?

 

There seems to be a general media view that the SoA was prepared to convince Pompey that they may, er,be in a spot of bovver.

It was prepared for the courts whose first available slot to hear PFC v HMRC (after 19 February when the HMRC had to file their response to the SoA submitted on 17 February) is 1st March.

How Pompey chose to move their financial deckchairs in the interim is of no real relevance.

 

HMRC lawyers indicate they will not comment until Friday 26th February (as my post 17057 and reference to the Telegraph article)

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
There seems to be a general media view that the SoA was prepared to convince Pompey that they may, er,be in a spot of bovver.

It was prepared for the courts whose first available slot to hear PFC v HMRC (after 19 February when the HMRC had to file their response to the SoA submitted on 17 February) is 1st March.

How Pompey chose to move their financial deckchairs in the interim is of no real relevance.

 

HMRC lawyers indicate they will not comment until Friday 26th February (as my post 17057 and reference to the Telegraph article)

This is my, entirely unqualified, view as well. I think they are just p!55ing in the wind.

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