Jump to content

Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
in Golden Posts

 Share

Recommended Posts

Channon's Sideburns

Channon's Sideburns

Posted
Posted
What's the relevance of that to PFC? PFC don't own the land.

 

Plus, we were told a couple of months ago that Gaydamak paid off the Barclays overdraft.

 

I suspect there is a debenture registered that secured a revolving credit facility or overdraft that PFC used to have with Barclays. That has since been paid off and no one has bothered to have the debenture released formally.

 

I know PFC have been run terribly but the likes Al-Fahim, Chanrai etc. have all been advised by very reputable law firms and wouldn't have made such a rudimentary mistake if this charge was relevant.

 

The relevance is that Gaydamak owns the land around it, and as we know is a large creditor of the business. HE has an interest in what happens to the club in admin.

 

Has anyone seen evidence that he owes Barclays nothing then? From that piece in the Mail (16th Jan) every bit of land had a charge against it.

 

The lenders would also ensure that the legal charge was removed upon repayment.

 

Not only Barclays, but Coutts as well...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
CB Saint

CB Saint

Posted
Posted
Jesus that's scary

 

Seems like Chainrai is a cold hearted bastard and PFC fans may have been better off with Storrie!

 

They'd be better off reforming as AFC - It could be that Chainrai is their worst nightmare

 

I think he is royally p1ssed off that he got conned into providing them the original loan when there was no way it would be repaid and is totally focussed on getting as much back out of this as possible. He is a professional inverstor not a football fan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
The relevance is that Gaydamak owns the land around it, and as we know is a large creditor of the business. HE has an interest in what happens to the club in admin.

 

Has anyone seen evidence that he owes Barclays nothing then? From that piece in the Mail (16th Jan) every bit of land had a charge against it.

 

The lenders would also ensure that the legal charge was removed upon repayment.

 

Not only Barclays, but Coutts as well...

 

It's not uncommon for all manner of long-obsolete charges to remain registered with Companies House.

 

Barclays are not relevant IMO. If they were they would have played a role already in this end-game. Blimey, do you not think they would have recalled all uncommited facilities by now? They did... and were paid off, like Standard Bank (at the expense of everyone else).

Link to comment
Share on other sites
bridge too far

bridge too far

Posted
Posted
It's not uncommon for all manner of long-obsolete charges to remain registered with Companies House.

 

Barclays are not relevant IMO. If they were they would have played a role already in this end-game. Blimey, do you not think they would have recalled all uncommited facilities by now? They did... and were paid off, like Standard Bank (at the expense of everyone else).

 

Then I'm confused. How can Barclays appoint an administrator if they're no longer a creditor?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
saint si

saint si

Posted
Posted
I think he is royally p1ssed off that he got conned into providing them the original loan when there was no way it would be repaid and is totally focussed on getting as much back out of this as possible. He is a professional inverstor not a football fan.

 

Should have done his due diligence... in a way, his experience will act as a warning to anyone else thinking they can make some easy money from investing in them. You'd have to be damn sure you know where every penny of income has already been committed before thinking your loan is secure...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
I have been told Chainrai's charge is on ALL THE assets, enterprise and FUTURE REVENUES of PFC to the value of £17m. He has transferred the freehold of the ground to himself.

 

If he puts the club into admin the PL have indicated they would advance the parachute payment and allow player sales.

 

Chainrai is the only secured creditor.

 

What would any buyer be buying?

 

What would remain would be;

 

All player assets

Parachute payment - gone

Freehold of the stadium - gone

 

 

And to get it out of administration, you still have to pay the football creditors IN FULL - £10m and pay Chainrai £1m a year, half the Championship tv revenue, in order to play there.

 

Also, just paying the football creditors means no CVA - which means another points deduction next season.

 

Yes, quite.

 

All the skates that think they will come out of this smelling of roses like we did are very wide of the mark. Charai has them over a barrel, with the stadium freehold, unless someone wants to pay his loan back to him in full. The alternative is developing a new ground which leads you all the way back to the "why Pompey?" question.

 

The skates will be suffering from this for many years IMO (assuming they do make it out of admin).

Link to comment
Share on other sites
greg_hill

greg_hill

Posted
Posted
9 points for a 38 game season (EPL); 10 for a 46 game season (FL)

 

Yes but I think his main question was - if Pompey manage to get themselves releegated without the help of a points deduction, will it carry over to next season as it did for us?

 

I'd like to know, too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Channon's Sideburns

Channon's Sideburns

Posted
Posted
Then I'm confused. How can Barclays appoint an administrator if they're no longer a creditor?

 

Also, if you refer back to the Mail article, the dates of the charges are relevant...

 

On most parcels of land, the charges are dated Sept 09 - so Gaydamak paid it all back between then and now???? Can't see it.

 

My view is that he mortgaged the land where possible, and put that money into the club to pay wages *(or for his own reasons)* - why else would the club owe him??

 

It doesn't add up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
Also, if you refer back to the Mail article, the dates of the charges are relevant...

 

On most parcels of land, the charges are dated Sept 09 - so Gaydamak paid it all back between then and now???? Can't see it.

 

My view is that he mortgaged the land where possible, and put that money into the club to pay wages *(or for his own reasons)* - why else would the club owe him??

 

It doesn't add up.

 

Fine, that may be the case but I repeat, it has nothing to do with PFC (IMO). PFC never has owned that land AFAIK. It was Miland Developments who owned it historically and then Gaydamak bought it (or bought Miland, can't remember). Either way, it's not related to any assets or liabilities of PFC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted

1) Will the court approve the request for administration

2) Will HMRC rubber stamp the transfer of assets to Chainrai, whilst under a WUP

3) What relevance is the Barclays Charge on the land

4) As mentioned by Mcjalliss (Think that's right) if the CVA's are valid or based on future revenue for 5 years, will the parachute payment money be distributed amoungst creditors over a period of time (This could really screw them)

5) Does Chainrai really own EVERYTHING

6) Will the PL advance cash to fund administration

7) Is that the end of Storrie

8) If football debts take priority, do they have to be paid in full, to avoid future points deductions

9) If administration is granted, what becomes of the SOA

10) How does this benefit the gun runners.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Fowllyd

Fowllyd

Posted
Posted
I have been told Chainrai's charge is on ALL THE assets, enterprise and FUTURE REVENUES of PFC to the value of £17m. He has transferred the freehold of the ground to himself.

 

If he puts the club into admin the PL have indicated they would advance the parachute payment and allow player sales.

 

Chainrai is the only secured creditor.

 

What would any buyer be buying?

 

What would remain would be;

 

All player assets

Parachute payment - gone

Freehold of the stadium - gone

 

 

And to get it out of administration, you still have to pay the football creditors IN FULL - £10m and pay Chainrai £1m a year, half the Championship tv revenue, in order to play there.

 

Also, just paying the football creditors means no CVA - which means another points deduction next season.

 

So, if that happens, Chainrai will be able to pay himself back out of Sky TV money and proceeds from player sales. After that, he could in theory return control of the 90% shareholding to Al Faraj, keeping the ground as a money maker (assuming PFC continue to exist and play there). So he'll be OK then!

 

Incidentally, Chainrai's charge on all the assets etc was mentioned in a Guardian article (I think) some time back - that's how he got control of the shares.

 

As others have commented, today's moves don't make the outlook any brighter for Pompey.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
1) Will the court approve the request for administration They don't have to; it's a creditor exercising rights, not an application from the board

2) Will HMRC rubber stamp the transfer of assets to Chainrai, whilst under a WUP Nothing to do with HMRC

3) What relevance is the Barclays Charge on the land None (IMO)

4) As mentioned by Mcjalliss (Think that's right) if the CVA's are valid or based on future revenue for 5 years, will the parachute payment money be distributed amoungst creditors over a period of time (This could really screw them) It's part of the equation to be taken into account by those involved in the deal

5) Does Chainrai really own EVERYTHING Don't think anyone's suggested that. Al-Fahim owns 10% of PFC, Chanrai owns 90% of PFC and the stadium (allegedly?)

6) Will the PL advance cash to fund administration Dunno

7) Is that the end of Storrie One would expect so!

8) If football debts take priority, do they have to be paid in full, to avoid future points deductions Yep.

9) If administration is granted, what becomes of the SOA It's irrelevant save for as a piece of evidence if needed in the future

10) How does this benefit the gun runners. [insert theory here]

 

Some IMO and some just good 'ole facts!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
So, if that happens, Chainrai will be able to pay himself back out of Sky TV money and proceeds from player sales. After that, he could in theory return control of the 90% shareholding to Al Faraj, keeping the ground as a money maker (assuming PFC continue to exist and play there). So he'll be OK then!

 

Incidentally, Chainrai's charge on all the assets etc was mentioned in a Guardian article (I think) some time back - that's how he got control of the shares.

 

As others have commented, today's moves don't make the outlook any brighter for Pompey.

 

No, no, no.... ;)

 

If they go into admin he loses control. However, as the only secured creditor (maybe) he would be at the forefront of the administrator's responsibilities. As for returning shares... it's a moot point. Someone will either buy the shares to get them out of admin, or someone will agree a deal with the creditors and buy the assets of the business in which case the shares become pointless anyway.

 

I agree with your final paragraph though! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Kingsland Red

Kingsland Red

Posted
Posted

 

Extract:

 

"Administration should ensure that the winding-up order is suspended, but on Tuesday night HMRC refused to comment on their position. Lawyers for the revenue are understood to be examining the small print of Portsmouth's statement and will not finalise its position until Friday".

 

Good !!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Fowllyd

Fowllyd

Posted
Posted
No, no, no.... ;)

 

If they go into admin he loses control. However, as the only secured creditor (maybe) he would be at the forefront of the administrator's responsibilities. As for returning shares... it's a moot point. Someone will either buy the shares to get them out of admin, or someone will agree a deal with the creditors and buy the assets of the business in which case the shares become pointless anyway.

 

I agree with your final paragraph though! :)

 

Ah yes - I was forgetting that distinctly significant detail! And of course shares won't mean owt in administration - I should be aware of that by now. Sounds more and more as if the PL are quite happy to keep them propped up till May then wave them a fond (and most likely final) farewell. Big old shame. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites
andysstuff

andysstuff

Posted
Posted
Extract:

 

"Administration should ensure that the winding-up order is suspended, but on Tuesday night HMRC refused to comment on their position. Lawyers for the revenue are understood to be examining the small print of Portsmouth's statement and will not finalise its position until Friday".

 

Good !!!

 

Wondered how they would react. hopefully they have VERY good lawyers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
Ah yes - I was forgetting that distinctly significant detail! And of course shares won't mean owt in administration - I should be aware of that by now. Sounds more and more as if the PL are quite happy to keep them propped up till May then wave them a fond (and most likely final) farewell. Big old shame. :D

 

Yep. They have a long period of embarrassment and grief ahead IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
WOW!! DP in posting oblique statement that is very likely to be true in some respect then bigging himself up later!

 

WOW!!! What a guy.

 

yeah whatever.

 

OK so we all know you were late on parade today.

 

I posted an idea based on a media statement "meetings with 4 groups" today. I speculated that instead of being investors they may include the Premier League.

 

Chanrai then confirmed he had met the PL today.

 

Sod you, I'm entitled to feel good about working out what was happening actually wasn't even firework science let alone rocket science.

 

I analyse, you tell everyone that you are right in your interpretation - hell half your comments today were telling others why they were wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
So Chainrai saying he wouldn't let the club die didn't mean....

 

'I owe it to the fans to keep this fantastic, historical, bell ringing club alive'

 

it meant

 

'It's the only way I'm going to get my money back is to bend you over and **** you for years to come'

 

Yes?

 

Pretty much.

 

On the other hand, if he hadn't loaned them all that money they would've folded months ago.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
yeah whatever.

 

OK so we all know you were late on parade today.

 

I posted an idea based on a media statement "meetings with 4 groups" today. I speculated that instead of being investors they may include the Premier League.

 

Chanrai then confirmed he had met the PL today.

 

Sod you, I'm entitled to feel good about working out what was happening actually wasn't even firework science let alone rocket science.

 

I analyse, you tell everyone that you are right in your interpretation - hell half your comments today were telling others why they were wrong.

 

I've been working! We can't all swan around the desert playing golf, drinking and posting on t'interwebs! ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
I've been working! We can't all swan around the desert playing golf, drinking and posting on t'interwebs! ;)

 

You are quite correct

 

Although that doesn't stop some of us working

 

 

 

 

To make sure that everything keeps going wrong for them :smt033

 

Hey - they decided to let the Arabs in, all it needed after that was to be good mates with a Mullah and bingo we got the big man (Allah, PbuH) on our side :D

 

But really, someone has to work hard to make sure that LLS only turns up at THE most effective comedy moment. Do you have ANY idea how hard THAT is!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Channon's Sideburns

Channon's Sideburns

Posted
Posted

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=737389&sec=england&cc=5739

 

From earlier this month.

 

So, if Chainrai's £17M in October staved off Administration then...where did that money get used? They were still struggling to pay wages even after that...so it didn't go on that.

 

Also...it indicates that perhaps they were trading insolvently then...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gorgiesaint

Gorgiesaint

Posted
Posted

 

Gotta love this quote at the end...

 

"We would like to ask the fans, the staff and management of Portsmouth Football Club for their support and patience should this step be taken, as they believe it is the only route left open to them. The serving of this notice means the winding-up order is automatically suspended. It means the club is safe, it can fulfil its fixtures and as far as is possible, it is business as usual."

 

So what business would that be then... media spin, not paying the bills, spiriting any income out of the country (allegedly of course), trying ignore what the courts are saying and of course, losing on the pitch!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=746083&sec=england&cc=5739

 

Nothing we do not already know but lol at Storries comments. The poor boy is exhausted

 

''Maybe if the Revenue hadn't brought the action that they did, we might have carried on, who knows?''

 

wtf?

 

yep, sorry peter - we should let you continue not paying your bills. bloody inland revenue for wanting their money.

 

morons

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Fowllyd

Fowllyd

Posted
Posted
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=746083&sec=england&cc=5739

 

Nothing we do not already know but lol at Storries comments. The poor boy is exhausted

 

This is my favourite Storrie quote from there:

 

Maybe if the Revenue hadn't brought the action that they did, we might have carried on, who knows?

 

And he's quite right of course. If only the pesky HMRC bunch hadn't demanded all that money, on the pathetically flimsy basis that (a) they were owed it; and (b) they'd asked for it nicely lots of times already, then things could have been so different. Tsk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=746083&sec=england&cc=5739

 

Nothing we do not already know but lol at Storries comments. The poor boy is exhausted

 

"It is heading for administration and that will make us a pretty good bargain, so I would imagine someone will pick the club up quickly enough."

 

PMSL :lol: Why does he keep trying to lie? Surely now is the time to resign, bugger-off quietly and work out your defence to the criminal charges against you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...