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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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Channon's Sideburns

Channon's Sideburns

Posted
Posted
In that same statement on Solent it was said that Barclays still have a charge of some sort over the club relating to some time ago.

 

That's interesting in that it seems that Barclays have made no comments while charges and mortgages were being raised or issued on any chance of income!

 

Exactly. If any borrowing restriction was still on Nottarf Krap when Chinarai provided the finance to Al Mirage, then as 1st legal charge Barclays would have to:

 

a) approve the placing of a 2nd charge in the first place;

b) be first in line for paying should the company fail to maintain the credit.

 

It's no different to residential lending - say you're mortgaged to Northern Rock, and then try to get a secured loan from Ocean Finance (;-)) - Northern Rock have first dibs should you default, and have to approve you applying for the Ocean loan.

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
In that same statement on Solent it was said that Barclays still have a charge of some sort over the club relating to some time ago.

 

That's interesting in that it seems that Barclays have made no comments while charges and mortgages were being raised or issued on any chance of income!

Who sponsor the PL....that may well give you an answer

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
I thought the PL were in favour of forwarding money if PFC took a penalty?

 

Which means, in admin with a 9 point penalty, maybe they are providing the money?

 

Which means to mean...... In CC next year with no parachute they will quite literally be free falling

:D

 

:chain:

 

Which is what I've been saying for the past 30 hours or so! This will get WORSE for them, not better!:D

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andysstuff

andysstuff

Posted
Posted
And finally...

 

4 consortiums in meetings all day. Let's change the wording and call them what they were - Groups of people with an interest in affairs at PCFC.

 

What are the objectives of interested parties?

The Directors - Allegedly to try and cover their tracks but maybe to try and find a new owner

HMRC - 1) Try to get paid their dues 2) Stop future losses 3) Teach Football a lesson

The FAPL - To keep PCFC running to the end of the season to avoid a complete mess of the PL and the expunging of results

Chanrai et al - 1) To avoid having to pay out any more money 2) To get a profit from the land that they hold

 

Now with the WUO as the nuclear option, nobody in that group gets anywhere near to a satisfactory solution.

 

So, potentially another idea can emerge. A deal can be carved out.

 

Administration COULD work IF the FAPL can find a vehicle that does not let them pay the TV revenue in advance BUT allows the Administrator to keep the club running even with Academy players. There will have to be a balance there, they will have to show some form of competitiveness or teams who dropped points may complain

 

Administration saves the FAPL's ass.

 

Administration allows HMRC to have the HOPE that a buyer could be found (same motivation as the Directors) so that SOME of the due money will be recovered. WITH a vehicle to fund the club to the end of the season the HMRC will also gain more income. This could be shown to be a good deal for them

 

Where does that leave the "owners" we saw with Saints they will be at the bottom of the hand out pile, so for them their BEST outcome remains the club is bought with new owners building a new ground on council land OR the club dies at the end of the season when they can build the squash court apartments and Tesco's.

 

So tick tock again, the takeover charade can continue until the day they are relegated.

 

We've all analysed the maths a takeover seems impossible, so as Sherlock says, when you are left with the impossible then that is the answer.

 

Admin brushes the mess under the carpet

People get the chance to get money back and (lol) sell the club

 

So the question remains - who could the 4th group have been? Buyers or some form of financing operation?

 

I smell a deal being done. If it has been then I don't see this as a victory for the few in their fight for survival.

 

And don't worry "Indignant" of West End may not have to wait too long for the final curtain

 

Seems a reasonable conclusion, one in which everyone except the poor sod of a supporter, and Terry the builder, comes out of this without losing face.

 

Of course, if Barclays DO have some charge over the ground it throws the best laid plans straight out of the window........................

 

Curiouser and curiouser.

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted

Just been trying to catch up on about 8 new pages of fun, but am still a bit puzzled about the timetable.

 

On the original court date, they were given 7 days to present the SofA. This fell last Wednesday, ( if I remember correctly ). Now, the ONLY reason they are not in court until next Monday is the lack of a free court slot, it has nothing to do with delaying due process or any statutory procedure. If time had been available, they could have been back with the beak on Monday this week, or even last Friday, ( based on the understanding that HMRC would have 2 days to assess the SofA ).

Could it not be that the legal perspective will make judgement from the point at which the SofA was required to be lodged, and any attempt at using admin now, as a means to circumvent this, is irrelevant ?

 

Yours ever hopeful :D

 

Badger

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Winchester Red

Winchester Red

Posted
Posted (edited)
To have to read this from the start you'd not be late St Landrew, you'd be The Late St Landrew

 

Personally, I think it's every self-respecting posters responsibility to read the WHOLE days posts on the thread before adding their own posts. Show some class!!!

 

 

 

 

:D;)

 

(It's lucky I have 2 laptops so I can keep this thread open on one whilst working on the other........ Christ I'm sad!)

Edited by Winchester Red
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INFLUENCED.COM

INFLUENCED.COM

Posted
Posted
Of course, if Barclays DO have some charge over the ground it throws the best laid plans straight out of the window.

 

As their interest will be on a public record it makes you wonder quite how the Hong Kong businessman and his advisors failed to identify it or indeed why Barclays have not emerged before now to state the same ??

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted

With apologies to Mama Cass......

 

Once I believed that when doom came to pompey

It would come with rockets, bells and poetry

But with this thread it just started quietly and grew

And believe it or not

Now there's something groovy and good

Bout whatever they get

And it's getting better

Growing wronger warm and wilder

Getting better everyday, better everyday

I don't feel all turned on and starry eyed

I just feel a sweet contentment deep inside

Reading you at night just seems kind of natural and right

And it's not hard to see

That it isn't half of what it's going to turn out to be

Cause it's getting better

Growing wronger, warm and wilder

Getting better everyday, better everyday

And just like a flower that takes time to bloom

This death of theirs is taking time to grow

Ba da da da da da da da da da da da

And I don't mind waitin', don't mind waitin'

Cause no matter how long it takes

The two of us know

That it's getting better

Growing wronger, warm and wilder

Getting better everyday, better everyday

Match Thread time

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Channon's Sideburns

Channon's Sideburns

Posted
Posted
If you look at the article in the News - maybe 20 or 30 pages back now - with the pictogram of who owns what, then Barclays are co-creditors along with Gaydamak for all the parcels of land around Fratton.

 

Presumably then, Gaydamak gave himself these bits of land, mortgaged them to the hilt with Barclays, to pay the wages, and then claims he would be happy to pay the mortgage payments to Barclays when Pompey pay him his dues :)

 

So many different owners of so many different pieces of the puzzle it's hard to see how an administrator will know what needs administrating by the end of next week, let alone the end of this week :D

 

Going back to that article (Mail or Guardian??) it did state on the graphic about the charges over the land etc...question is,was the article published before or after Chinarai took his charge?

 

 

OOPS...JUST SEEN GM'S POST!

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exit2

exit2

Posted
Posted

The only way I see PFC surviving now is that if Chanrai bank rolls the club for a few months. The administrator needs the money coming in, to pay wages etc etc. But as we all now there is no money, so how much does Chanrai put it? He was only in for £17m but thats only 3-4 months wages! I still cant see anyone doing it.

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Kingsland Red

Kingsland Red

Posted
Posted
Just been trying to catch up on about 8 new pages of fun, but am still a bit puzzled about the timetable.

 

On the original court date, they were given 7 days to present the SofA. This fell last Wednesday, ( if I remember correctly ). Now, the ONLY reason they are not in court until next Monday is the lack of a free court slot, it has nothing to do with delaying due process or any statutory procedure. If time had been available, they could have been back with the beak on Monday this week, or even last Friday, ( based on the understanding that HMRC would have 2 days to assess the SofA ).

Could it not be that the legal perspective will make judgement from the point at which the SofA was required to be lodged, and any attempt at using admin now, as a means to circumvent this, is irrelevant ?

 

Yours ever hopeful :D

 

 

 

Badger

 

We're thinking along the same lines Badger, I cannot follow the simple Chainrai doctrine.

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Guided Missile

Guided Missile

Posted
Posted
Going back to that article (Mail or Guardian??) it did state on the graphic about the charges over the land etc...question is' date='was the article published before or after Chinarai took his charge?[/quote']

By Daniel King, Mail on Sunday Sports News Correspondent Last updated at 11:33 PM on 16th January 2010

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1243828/Do-men-control-Portsmouth-want-football-club-superstore.html#ixzz0gOIQTXf9

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Guided Missile

Guided Missile

Posted
Posted

I think this may be worth highlighting, in view of the new information:

 

My posts above were cut and pasted from the UK Governments Insolvency Website. They confirm that you and Portsmouth are wrong, as whatever the value of the asset, the sum realised, whether a fair value or not, may benefit one particular creditor over another, i.e. Chanrai, in this case.

I would have thought that whether he is a secured or preferred creditor, or not and whether he ranks ahead of HMRC, is a question for the court, not the board of a bankrupt football club to decide.

IF the court has not approved the disposal of Fratton Park, I think the transaction will be voided until a receiver/liquidator is appointed and whoever approved the sale of Fratton Park on behalf of the club could be in the sh !t...

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GenevaSaint

GenevaSaint

Posted
Posted (edited)
Who would want them made extinct and miss out on the fun, another 26 years of fun, reminding them who is the number one club in the South....

 

Agree wholeheartedly GM, there are posters on pompey forums with a name of 26 minutes of bliss in reference to that horrendous game in 05, we're going to have 26 years of bliss!

 

My own personal preference is that they suffer a long slow terminal decline into the oblivion of League 2 (at least) as we pass them by. Alongside this I'd like Storrie Teller, Saggy Chops and Mandick to get their just deserts in court on the tax evasion charges, whatever they may be.

 

As a brucie bonus, the premier league and FL should do a full forensic review of their accounts and dealings in the whole affair, with a possible 25 point penalty :-)

Edited by GenevaSaint
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EastleighSoulBoy

EastleighSoulBoy

Posted
Posted
In that same statement on Solent it was said that Barclays still have a charge of some sort over the club relating to some time ago.

 

That's interesting in that it seems that Barclays have made no comments while charges and mortgages were being raised or issued on any chance of income!

 

Who sponsor the PL....that may well give you an answer

 

Exactly my point!

 

It does seem like poetic justice that they should have a hand in it somewhere

;)

 

They certainly do seem to be Premier League at Administration!
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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
If Pompey's total debt is £60m (or above) and the HMRC are owed £12m, judging what has been said above, HMRC will not be able to contest the CVA (£12m is only 20 per cent of £60m).

 

However, if the HMRC are owed the £18m that has been reported in recent days, HMRC can challenge the debt (£18m is roughly 30 per cent of £60m and about 26 per cent of £70m).

 

Of course, this is dependent on the 75 per cent of total debt thing being correct, of which I have no idea.

 

See my post above.... if we are to believe what we have read, their debt has decreased by about £10m in the last few days :)

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exit2

exit2

Posted
Posted
My posts above were cut and pasted from the UK Governments Insolvency Website. They confirm that you and Portsmouth are wrong, as whatever the value of the asset, the sum realised, whether a fair value or not, may benefit one particular creditor over another, i.e. Chanrai, in this case.

I would have thought that whether he is a secured or preferred creditor, or not and whether he ranks ahead of HMRC, is a question for the court, not the board of a bankrupt football club to decide.

IF the court has not approved the disposal of Fratton Park, I think the transaction will be voided until a receiver/liquidator is appointed and whoever approved the sale of Fratton Park on behalf of the club could be in the sh !t...

 

I might be wrong GM, but I thought all football related creditors get paid first in the case of football clubs going into admin so HMRC are down the list

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EastleighSoulBoy

EastleighSoulBoy

Posted
Posted
With apologies to Mama Cass......

 

Once I believed that when doom came to pompey

It would come with rockets, bells and poetry

But with this thread it just started quietly and grew

And believe it or not

Now there's something groovy and good

Bout whatever they get

And it's getting better

Growing wronger warm and wilder

Getting better everyday, better everyday

I don't feel all turned on and starry eyed

I just feel a sweet contentment deep inside

Reading you at night just seems kind of natural and right

And it's not hard to see

That it isn't half of what it's going to turn out to be

Cause it's getting better

Growing wronger, warm and wilder

Getting better everyday, better everyday

And just like a flower that takes time to bloom

This death of theirs is taking time to grow

Ba da da da da da da da da da da da

And I don't mind waitin', don't mind waitin'

Cause no matter how long it takes

The two of us know

That it's getting better

Growing wronger, warm and wilder

Getting better everyday, better everyday

Match Thread time

 

:D To think that I was referring to the Mama and this song way back in this thread.

 

 

Uh uh uh .... I'm loving it!

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
Right I've just got in from work & I've been trawling through todays mountain of updates but I can't find an answer to a question that has bugged me for most of the day:

 

How can Chainrai be both the owner of PFC and a creditor?

 

Surely if he is a creditor (and not the owner) then who is the owner & why is he negotiating the sale of the club?

 

Therefore he must be the owner, so surely he cannot be a secured creditor as well (because his investment will form part of the capital of the company)? If thats the case then he cannot put the club into admin & liquidation is the only option.

 

Second point, if administrators take over, surely they will have to refer the transfer of the asset (if thats what you can call FP) to Chainrai to reduce his debt by £10m to the court for approval. At that point, they will surely look at the SoA?

 

Anyone with any idea's?

 

Shareholders can make loans to a company - there's no contradiction there.

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
report on Solent now that due to a legal technicality,Barclays Bank can appoint an administrator, They could let Poopey choose one, but if they don't like it they can then appoint one themselves.

 

This is most likely ********.

 

Barclays may still have a qualifying floating charge showing as registered at Companies House but we have repeateadly been told that Pompey owe no money to any bank.

 

If Baclays aren't owed money then they can't exercise security. It's likely that the charge simply hasn't been discharged. Not likely to be relevant at all IMO.

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Channon's Sideburns

Channon's Sideburns

Posted
Posted
This is most likely ********.

 

Barclays may still have a qualifying floating charge showing as registered at Companies House but we have repeateadly been told that Pompey owe no money to any bank.

 

If Baclays aren't owed money then they can't exercise security. It's likely that the charge simply hasn't been discharged. Not likely to be relevant at all IMO.

 

But are Barclays involved due to their arrangement with Gaydmak over the surrounding land? That would give them an interest in what happens...

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
But are Barclays involved due to their arrangement with Gaydmak over the surrounding land? That would give them an interest in what happens...

 

What's the relevance of that to PFC? PFC don't own the land.

 

Plus, we were told a couple of months ago that Gaydamak paid off the Barclays overdraft.

 

I suspect there is a debenture registered that secured a revolving credit facility or overdraft that PFC used to have with Barclays. That has since been paid off and no one has bothered to have the debenture released formally.

 

I know PFC have been run terribly but the likes Al-Fahim, Chanrai etc. have all been advised by very reputable law firms and wouldn't have made such a rudimentary mistake if this charge was relevant.

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andysstuff

andysstuff

Posted
Posted
OK, Im sure some one dug something up that said they could not go into Administration while under a winding-up order from the high courts? Or is this ********?

 

Opinion seems to be that they must be able to go into admin, despite what we thought earlier on here. Only time will tell.

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
OK, Im sure some one dug something up that said they could not go into Administration while under a winding-up order from the high courts? Or is this ********?

 

The company can't put itself into administration without applying to the court.

 

"The company" is the directors.

 

A holder of a qualifying floating charge can appoint an administrator. Chanrai is, evidently, a qualifying floating charge holder.

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
Al Mirage's company...where is that based?

 

Portpin....based in?

 

If they are both based in British Virgin Islands, would any agreement between the two parties regarding Nottarf Krap fall under British law??

 

They can, generally, make a contract subject to whatever governing law they feel like. If they're trying to undertake a transaction in respect of the land though, they would have to follow the procedures for transactions of land under UK law for it to be valid.

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Weston Saint

Weston Saint

Posted
Posted

I have been told Chainrai's charge is on ALL THE assets, enterprise and FUTURE REVENUES of PFC to the value of £17m. He has transferred the freehold of the ground to himself.

 

If he puts the club into admin the PL have indicated they would advance the parachute payment and allow player sales.

 

Chainrai is the only secured creditor.

 

What would any buyer be buying?

 

What would remain would be;

 

All player assets

Parachute payment - gone

Freehold of the stadium - gone

 

 

And to get it out of administration, you still have to pay the football creditors IN FULL - £10m and pay Chainrai £1m a year, half the Championship tv revenue, in order to play there.

 

Also, just paying the football creditors means no CVA - which means another points deduction next season.

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Winchester Red

Winchester Red

Posted
Posted (edited)
I have been told Chainrai's charge is on ALL THE assets, enterprise and FUTURE REVENUES of PFC to the value of £17m. He has transferred the freehold of the ground to himself.

 

If he puts the club into admin the PL have indicated they would advance the parachute payment and allow player sales.

 

Chainrai is the only secured creditor.

 

What would any buyer be buying?

 

What would remain would be;

 

All player assets

Parachute payment - gone

Freehold of the stadium - gone

 

 

And to get it out of administration, you still have to pay the football creditors IN FULL - £10m and pay Chainrai £1m a year, half the Championship tv revenue, in order to play there.

 

Also, just paying the football creditors means no CVA - which means another points deduction next season.

 

Jesus that's scary

 

Seems like Chainrai is a cold hearted bastard and PFC fans may have been better off with Storrie!

 

They'd be better off reforming as AFC - It could be that Chainrai is their worst nightmare

Edited by Winchester Red
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