Pompey Takeover Saga

[pedg]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_5973437,00.html

 

that would just be going from one bad situation, to an even worse one.

"Cattermole insists his interest in buying the club is genuine."

 

What do you expect him to say.. "Well actually I am a chancer with a dubious financial past, don't care for the club at all but in the chaos thought I might be able to make some money at someone else's expense"

[sidthesquid]

"Cattermole insists his interest in buying the club is genuine."

 

What do you expect him to say.. "Well actually I am a chancer with a dubious financial past, don't care for the club at all but in the chaos thought I might be able to make some money at someone else's expense"

 

Or possibly - "I'm only in it for the publicity."

[Channon's Sideburns]

Or possibly - "I'm only in it for the publicity."

 

Who....? Cattermole or Storrie?

[krissyboy31]

"Cattermole insists his interest in buying the club is genuine."

 

What do you expect him to say.. "Well actually I am a chancer with a dubious financial past, don't care for the club at all but in the chaos thought I might be able to make some money at someone else's expense"

 

He says a lot for a guy that has signed an NDA, doesn't he?

[Saint_John]

Arkadi Gaydamaks wealth came from, amongst other crimes, the illegal sale of 170,000 landmines to Angola. It is for this reason that his bank accounts were frozen in Israel and Russia.

.....

Dirty, dirty money...

 

I alway thought it was attempted purchase of this Dutch company that led to the charges in Israel and the freezing of the Bank Accounts

http://www.nrc.nl/international/article2485661.ece/Dutch_company_involved_with_arms_dealer

 

I like the quote

"In 2003, the Israeli police warned the FBI about the Russian billionaire’s methods. "He distances himself from his properties, companies and bank accounts," the Israelis wrote. Gaydamak’s considerable fortune, it turns out, is registered in other people’s names. "

 

Why does a football club come to mind.

[pedg]

"In 2003, the Israeli police warned the FBI about the Russian billionaire’s methods. "He distances himself from his properties, companies and bank accounts," the Israelis wrote. Gaydamak’s considerable fortune, it turns out, is registered in other people’s names. "

 

Why does a football club come to mind.

 

Strangely when the phrase considerable fortune I somehow don't think of a football club. Well not unless you put 'lose' in front of it.

[hutch]

SSN have just been speaking to one of their correspondents in the studio..

 

Talks are still ongoing and that they went on until 2am and will resume later today.

After speakig to insolvency experts they see no other outcome but PFC going into Admin or even liquidation due to the amount of debt and the timescale they have left to conclude a deal with a satisfactory conclusion for all parties concerned.

Would anyone really want to buy them anyway?

The HMRC are now DESPERATE TO PUT THEM INTO LIQUIDATION after PFC ignored all the previous warnings from HMRC.

 

All according to SSN.

I have no idea who the insolvency 'experts' were.

Lard, I hope you don't mind the edit. Makes more sense now.

Edited 23 February, 2010 by hutch

[hutch]

...

Edited 23 February, 2010 by hutch

[StuRomseySaint]

Hmmm..... these 'interested parties' could well have been put on the scene as a 'favour' imo... to try and buy more time?!

[pedg]

Hmmm..... these 'interested parties' could well have been put on the scene as a 'favour' imo... to try and buy more time?!

 

Rather a risky game as they would not know if it would have bought them more time till the court case on Monday.

[Foxy]

And we all know you can't polish a turd, right.

 

Any reason why you'd want to try? This has baffled me a lot.

 

Not as much as why someone would want to buy Pompey, mind.

[Saint Keith]

had to lol at the quotes from that new zealand guy. "wont be rushed", "wont be done by Monday" etc etc

 

what we have been saying for weeks now. if you were going to buy portsmouth, you'd wait and buy them out of admin or do a deal with the liquidator.

 

no one is going to buy them this week, it just doesn't stack, whichever way you cut it

[JackFrost]

Hmmm..... these 'interested parties' could well have been put on the scene as a 'favour' imo... to try and buy more time?!

 

I doubt the high court judge will fall for that.

[pfc123]

had to lol at the quotes from that new zealand guy. "wont be rushed", "wont be done by Monday" etc etc

 

what we have been saying for weeks now. if you were going to buy portsmouth, you'd wait and buy them out of admin or do a deal with the liquidator.

 

no one is going to buy them this week, it just doesn't stack, whichever way you cut it

 

Yep. Hate to say it but you're almost certainly right. It wouldn't make a lot of sense. Admin followed by another MM our best option now.......

[Doctoroncall]

So we know nothing of the third party. It would be rather amusing if it was a journalist in an attempt to get to the bottom of all that is going on at FP for an inside scoop.

[Gingeletiss]

For me, the interesting bits are in blue.....if true of course!!!

 

 

 

imsmithswig

 

Posted 23/2/2010 10:57

#96238 - in reply to #96215

Subject: RE: The waiting game

 

 

Pompey ressie

 

Posts: 5

 

I have a friend who is a high up VAT investigator with HMRC and he has finally told me what he knows

 

If on monday HMRC do not get the majority of the £14.4m owed including the disputed VAT they will not agree to another deal.

 

PFC have been picked as the example to others as we have failed to keep up with payments for previous arrears, and the hard line in court has worked as 4 clubs paid up arrears within the week, Cardiff were given 28 days as they paid off a million the day before court appearance, PFC offered nothing.

 

HMRC see PFC as a loss leader and are expecting administration.

 

Also re not owning ground 2 clubs have done this and have still had financial trouble, Cambridge and Crystal Palace due to high rent, Man City is low rent and i believe the ground is owned by the council and not an individual, as is the case in many European countries.

 

Still if there are any buyers out there, we will get one, whereas next season there may be more clubs than buyers.

[sussexsaint]

They really are like a turd that won't flush aren't they.

 

A dead goldfish that wont flush.

[badgerx16]

"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery." - Wilkins Micawber

 

 

Now, be honest, you just wouldn't get Dickens quoted on a skate site, would you?

AHEM !

 

I refer you to post #13074 :cool:

[Saint_John]

For those outside the area you should see the local Meridian news from last night. The bit I mean is from 18:58 to about 19:08.

 

Is that Corp Ho stood in front of seat M081 with his friend ?

 

http://www.itv.com/meridian-west/fullprogramme/?intcmp=NAV_MERIDIAN0_FULLPROG4

[pedg]

Yep. Hate to say it but you're almost certainly right. It wouldn't make a lot of sense. Admin followed by another MM our best option now.......

 

You already have 3 people associated with PFC up on tax evasion charges and you want a 4th???

[Gingeletiss]

...and this could be the final laugh, and the biggest!!!!...

 

cornypomp

 

Posted 23/2/2010 11:30

#96240 - in reply to #96215

Subject: Re: The waiting game

 

 

 

Alan 'The Legend' Knight

 

Posts: 1196

 

Location: On me boat in Falmouth, Cornwall UK

Although like everybody else I'm hoping for a takeover before Monday, personally I still just can't see it happening. It just doesn't stack up in my eyes. That would be like seeing signs for massive 75% reductions in the January sales, yet rushing in the day before and spending all of your money.

 

I am starting to build a little faith in Chanrai however, and think that one way or another he'll not allow the club to go under. What are his options though...pretty limited I'd say. Bung in his own cash or put the club into admin. Did have an interesting chat with a mate of mine last night though (he's one of these venture capitalist bastards) He seemed to think that the admin route would lead to a buyer but also said.... lookout for a management buyout in admin. Still he...although knowledgeable in financial matters had to admit that anything could happen, and that just about sums it up for me.....it's 'The Waiting Game'

 

We can all speculate, but can't seem to accumulate at the moment.

 

Edited by cornypomp 23/2/2010 11:38

 

 

 

Gandor1

 

Posted 23/2/2010 11:52

#96245 - in reply to #96215

Subject: Re: The waiting game

 

 

Dickinson, Pompey 'til I die!

 

Posts: 3288

 

 

Funny you should say that Corny. I heard on Sunday that Redknapp had got together with Storrie and was trying to organise a buyout. Just took it with a pinch of salt, to be honest.

[warsash saint]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/Former-striker-wants-resolution.6095381.jp

 

The only one from P*mpey that has talked some sense in this fiasco & all the blue few can do is slag him off

[Channon's Sideburns]

For those outside the area you should see the local Meridian news from last night. The bit I mean is from 18:58 to about 19:08.

 

Is that Corp Ho stood in front of seat M081 with his friend ?

 

http://www.itv.com/meridian-west/fullprogramme/?intcmp=NAV_MERIDIAN0_FULLPROG4

 

Hehehe...could be...or perhaps Peter's friend Hans Zindertill realising he's been offered a dud.....?!

[miserableoldgit]

Now, be honest, you just wouldn't get Dickens quoted on a skate site, would you?

Only if they thought that he was heading up a consortium to take them over!

[sidthesquid]

AHEM !

 

I refer you to post #13074 :cool:

 

As we're being pedants today I think you'll find that, though it was the same quote, it was on here, not a skate site. I rest my case

[Smirking_Saint]

Just heard on SSN that Baloo has started discussions with Administrators as if they enter Admin before the court case on monday the winding up will not happen.

 

Personally i can see this as the only route this is going to take now and also the only remaining avenue that has light at the end. If it makes it to monday, they are dead.

 

If they enter admin then ok they will definately be relegated ! (but will miss out on the minus ten next season, something our red faced tw*t failed to realise) chanrai may get some cash back, the other creditors may get some cash back.

 

And they may, just may get a buyer out of it.

 

BUT..... is it worth administrators coming in ?? Will they make enough money out of this ?

[JackFrost]

Correct me if I'm wrong by all means but I don't think "going into admin" is going to be that easy for them.

 

First they gotta find an administrator who is daft enough to take on the job and keep an insolvent club trading for 31 days (illegal anyone?)

 

then to go into admin hasn't this got to be approved by the high court? They IMO are far from guaranteed to approve it

 

Then we have the question of whether Chainrai is still a secured creditor or not and whether he even has the power to put them into admin.

 

I'm no expert on these matters, but from where I'm standing actually going into administration is far from straight forward

Edited 23 February, 2010 by JackFrost

[Matthew Le God]

If they enter admin then ok they will definately be relegated ! (but will miss out on the minus ten next season, something our red faced tw*t failed to realise)

 

I'm not sure if they can even go into admin atm but if they did they would be unlikely to get a CVA unless they pay the taxman back in full, so will get a points deduction next season.

[aintforever]

I expect the interested parties all have buying from administration in mind anyway.

 

Hopefully they wont get a CVA and still get the minus points next season, jammy gits probably will get away with it though.

[Smirking_Saint]

Look everyone, Phil's ITK.

 

Or is pretending to be ITK but won't actually say what's causing the problem because he doesn't really know. And would then look a ****. :smt033

 

Come on then Phil, what is it.

 

 

Sorry it's a bit late, i missed the return of our fishy hero.

[Crab Lungs]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/Former-striker-wants-resolution.6095381.jp

 

The only one from P*mpey that has talked some sense in this fiasco & all the blue few can do is slag him off

 

what a bunch of c()nts... the only person who actually had the bottle to tell them exactly how it is and because they didn't like hearing it, they have resorted to slagging him of en masse. Lol.

[so22saint]

Just heard on SSN that Baloo has started discussions with Administrators as if they enter Admin before the court case on monday the winding up will not happen.

 

Personally i can see this as the only route this is going to take now and also the only remaining avenue that has light at the end. If it makes it to monday, they are dead.

 

If they enter admin then ok they will definately be relegated ! (but will miss out on the minus ten next season, something our red faced tw*t failed to realise) chanrai may get some cash back, the other creditors may get some cash back.

 

And they may, just may get a buyer out of it.

 

BUT..... is it worth administrators coming in ?? Will they make enough money out of this ?

 

To be honest, I'd *love it* if we both managed to get into the Championship next year.

 

*love it*

[JackFrost]

Just heard on SSN that Baloo has started discussions with Administrators as if they enter Admin before the court case on monday the winding up will not happen.

Personally i can see this as the only route this is going to take now and also the only remaining avenue that has light at the end. If it makes it to monday, they are dead.

 

If they enter admin then ok they will definately be relegated ! (but will miss out on the minus ten next season, something our red faced tw*t failed to realise) chanrai may get some cash back, the other creditors may get some cash back.

 

And they may, just may get a buyer out of it.

 

BUT..... is it worth administrators coming in ?? Will they make enough money out of this ?

 

Is this true?

[Wade Garrett]

I've just heard that Storrie is in discussions with a three man consortium, and that negotiations are at a 'red hot' stage.

 

Rumour has it that Marc Jackson, Tony Lynham and Mickey Fialka have exciting ideas for the club, and plan to turn PF UCKed into a worldwide brand.

[Saint Keith]

BUT..... is it worth administrators coming in ?? Will they make enough money out of this ?

 

well, thats the problem. unless there are new owners coming in, it just delays the inevitable. administration is only viable if the business has the cash to fund itself through it, and there is the prospect of a buyer at the end of it

 

the 2nd bit is quite plausible, it might be worth a punt on pompey if you can get everyone to agree to 10% of what they're owed, and get the debt down from £70m to £7m. that's assuming of course the inland sausage play ball, which is by no means certain as they want blood

 

its the first part that's the problem.the business needs £15m of life support until May when it gets its morphine drip of sky money. that is a serious amount of money, and HAS to be funded. but by who?

[Smirking_Saint]

Ahhh very true, i completely forgot about the CVA !! Hopefully then they will be well screwed going into next year then.

 

Will they also get more poins deductions for financial irregularities ??

 

I am not sure MLG, i am far from an expert in financial matters, you can ask the missus about that lol.

 

Just what was being reported on SSN that chanrai was in talks.

 

Personally like soppysod said, i can't see why administrators would take on the task ??

[dubai_phil]

OK, so I try not to get inbvolved in discussions about admin v liquidation etc as I have no idea about UK laws these days.

 

But, what I recall from our and other experience.

 

Enter admin receive Points Penalty.

On Entering Admin you lose your "Golden Share" in our case or your "Playing Licence" but can continue for a set period I believe

To exit Admin you need an agreement from the Creditors

To be accepted back after admin with the playing licence you MUST pay your footballing debts in full.

HMRC will not accept any agreement unless they get full payment.

 

So, taking out the Gaydamark & Chanrai money which they seem to have secured against the land.

 

Entering Admin will

Wipe out the HMRC debt? No HMRC won't accept their exit from Admin under a CVA - more points penalties will follow I believe

Wipe out the footballing debts - to agents & clubs? No You have to pay those in full.

Wipe out Chanrai & Gaydamark's debts - No not entirely as they own the property

So, in reality, the ONLY benefit that admin can bring is to screw ALL the local businesses and suppliers who are owed money and also to impact in the redundancy expectations of the staff.

 

And in OUR admin, if you recall, we had two major D Days - where the wages had to be paid - on one of those we had help from Leon. For the other(s) we sold Surman Dyer & DMG

Put where would the Pompey income for the administrator come from? No sales of players they need 3.1mil on Friday, then in March then in April then in May, probably about 2mil in June when you could FINALLY sell some season tickets.

 

So to get out of admin 12 mil to HMRC, the footballing debts are what now? 4mil? and 12mil for the wages/op ex during admin.

 

So a CCC club in admin with no assets that needs 28 or so mil spent on it.

 

And yet Saints could not be sold for 30 mil after 3 years of asking.

[Smirking_Saint]

Is this true?

 

Apparantly as reported on SSN. If they go into admin before monday then the court case will not happen.

 

If i hear any more i will let you know.

[Saint Keith]

I've just heard that Storrie is in discussions with a three man consortium, and that negotiations are at a 'red hot' stage.

 

Rumour has it that Marc Jackson, Tony Lynham and Mickey Fialka have exiting ideas for the club, and plan to turn PF UCKed into a worldwide brand.

 

there, thats better

[Winchester Red]

This may be stating the obvious (something I've always been good at!), but I think it's a safe bet that if they don't go into administration before Monday it's for one reason, and one reason only....

 

They tried and they can't

 

and that will be the only way we will find out the answer to whether they can or not.

 

I rest my case your honour

 

[Crab Lungs]

Just went to sign up to The News paper to defend Claridge and I couldn't believe I just got this security word! I sh1t you not...

 

[Smirking_Saint]

OK, so I try not to get inbvolved in discussions about admin v liquidation etc as I have no idea about UK laws these days.

 

But, what I recall from our and other experience.

 

Enter admin receive Points Penalty.

On Entering Admin you lose your "Golden Share" in our case or your "Playing Licence" but can continue for a set period I believe

To exit Admin you need an agreement from the Creditors

To be accepted back after admin with the playing licence you MUST pay your footballing debts in full.

HMRC will not accept any agreement unless they get full payment.

 

So, taking out the Gaydamark & Chanrai money which they seem to have secured against the land.

 

Entering Admin will

Wipe out the HMRC debt? No HMRC won't accept their exit from Admin under a CVA - more points penalties will follow I believe

Wipe out the footballing debts - to agents & clubs? No You have to pay those in full.

Wipe out Chanrai & Gaydamark's debts - No not entirely as they own the property

So, in reality, the ONLY benefit that admin can bring is to screw ALL the local businesses and suppliers who are owed money and also to impact in the redundancy expectations of the staff.

 

And in OUR admin, if you recall, we had two major D Days - where the wages had to be paid - on one of those we had help from Leon. For the other(s) we sold Surman Dyer & DMG

Put where would the Pompey income for the administrator come from? No sales of players they need 3.1mil on Friday, then in March then in April then in May, probably about 2mil in June when you could FINALLY sell some season tickets.

 

So to get out of admin 12 mil to HMRC, the footballing debts are what now? 4mil? and 12mil for the wages/op ex during admin.

 

So a CCC club in admin with no assets that needs 28 or so mil spent on it.

 

And yet Saints could not be sold for 30 mil after 3 years of asking.

 

Cheers Phil,

 

Sums it all up quite nicely, i also thought about how our own situation was, we had decent infrastructure and only really the stadium debt to renegotiate (as far as substantial debts are concerned) and we really struggled.

 

Portsmouth however, as far as being a PL club (though realistically a CCC) so in essence at least one league above where we were at the time of admin, have massive debts and the land and ground secured to someone else.

 

Also the HMRC have them bent over and ready to shaft them to prove a point, as you say they are not going to budge on the debt as they need to use PFC to scare other clubs into paying etc.

 

So surely they are very much a less attractive prospect. Not only will they have to pay off debts and attempt to negotiate with chanrai and gaydemak (and if it was me holding those assets i wouldn't budge easily) they would then have to completely rebuild and look to improve infrastructure to bring them up to a equal playing field.

 

So really, is anyone going to buy them out ?? For me, they look fooked, especially with teams such as Newcastle and Palace that could be purchased imo for a lot less and already competing at CCC level.

[Pugwash]

Well if we're quoting Dickens:

 

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.."

 

- Tale of Two Cities

 

(winky eye thingy)

[stevegrant]

Put where would the Pompey income for the administrator come from? No sales of players they need 3.1mil on Friday, then in March then in April then in May, probably about 2mil in June when you could FINALLY sell some season tickets.

But could they sell season tickets? We either couldn't or chose not to all through the summer, when that could have kept the club going rather than relying on handouts.

[Smirking_Saint]

But could they sell season tickets? We either couldn't or chose not to all through the summer, when that could have kept the club going rather than relying on handouts.

 

Forgot about that little snippet too.

 

As i remember we were not allowed to sell ST's with our future hanging in the balance.

 

Good point SG

[Gingeletiss]

I'm not sure if they can even go into admin atm but if they did they would be unlikely to get a CVA unless they pay the taxman back in full, so will get a points deduction next season.

 

...and that my friends, is the big issue. The long and short of it is........pay your ferk1ng taxes my fishy friends.

[Winchester Red]

There's absolutely no way they can sell season tickets until they are 100% sure they are competing next year, and to be sure of that they would need their 'share', which they won't have.

 

Selling season tickets is a non-starter and probably will be until they are out of admin

[suewhistle]

And on a general note - some great analysis on here - we should set up a panel to rescue businesses before they see problems coming, and offer them satire and abuse to help them through.

 

Heh, heh, satire, abuse and schadenfreude..

 

I don't really want PFC to cease to exist, but I wouldn't mind PS in the clink, sharing a cell with die-hard P****y fans..

 

Great entertainment, but if somebody wrote it all as a novel you'd say 'how unrealistic, over-plotted and too many characters'..

[saintds]

OK, so I try not to get inbvolved in discussions about admin v liquidation etc as I have no idea about UK laws these days.

 

But, what I recall from our and other experience.

 

Enter admin receive Points Penalty.

On Entering Admin you lose your "Golden Share" in our case or your "Playing Licence" but can continue for a set period I believe

To exit Admin you need an agreement from the Creditors

To be accepted back after admin with the playing licence you MUST pay your footballing debts in full.

HMRC will not accept any agreement unless they get full payment.

 

So, taking out the Gaydamark & Chanrai money which they seem to have secured against the land.

 

Entering Admin will

Wipe out the HMRC debt? No HMRC won't accept their exit from Admin under a CVA - more points penalties will follow I believe

Wipe out the footballing debts - to agents & clubs? No You have to pay those in full.

Wipe out Chanrai & Gaydamark's debts - No not entirely as they own the property

So, in reality, the ONLY benefit that admin can bring is to screw ALL the local businesses and suppliers who are owed money and also to impact in the redundancy expectations of the staff.

 

And in OUR admin, if you recall, we had two major D Days - where the wages had to be paid - on one of those we had help from Leon. For the other(s) we sold Surman Dyer & DMG

Put where would the Pompey income for the administrator come from? No sales of players they need 3.1mil on Friday, then in March then in April then in May, probably about 2mil in June when you could FINALLY sell some season tickets.

 

So to get out of admin 12 mil to HMRC, the footballing debts are what now? 4mil? and 12mil for the wages/op ex during admin.

 

So a CCC club in admin with no assets that needs 28 or so mil spent on it.

 

And yet Saints could not be sold for 30 mil after 3 years of asking.

 

That's a pretty good summary Phil, but let's not forget that admin requires an administrator to assume responsibility until a suitable solution is found. It's tough to see how BT or any such firm could see a way of making any money out of this.

 

The ONLY way out of this is through a significant injection of new cash, IMHO.

Edited 23 February, 2010 by saintds

[andysstuff]

This may be stating the obvious (something I've always been good at!), but I think it's a safe bet that if they don't go into administration before Monday it's for one reason, and one reason only....

 

They tried and they can't

 

and that will be the only way we will find out the answer to whether they can or not.

 

I rest my case your honour

 

Very well put, and would agree that this is the only way to find out if admin is actually an option now.

 

Only time will tell.

 

Tick Tick Tick............