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Pompey Takeover Saga


Fitzhugh Fella

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All we can hope is that PFC123 is in no way connected or instrumental in the formation of the New Pompey. If he is basing the business model on the sort of fan figures that he is quoting here it will not be too long before that team enters liquidation as well...!

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Ok then, from the scenario I painted originally, i.e. a team in the lower reaches, but on the way back up, how about these examples from Division 4:

 

Pompey v Bradford 20th Oct 1979. Attendance: 23,871

Pompey v Newport 23rd Oct 1979. Attendance: 20,755

Pompey v Aldershat 1st Jan 1980. Attendance: 23,462

Pompey v Huddersfield 23rd Feb 1980. Attendance: 19,203

Pompey v Walsall 22nd Mar 1980. Attendance: 21,785

 

Pompey v Boro F.A.cup 9th Jan 1980. Attendance: 31,743

 

And all the other home games that season range between 10k-15k. Hardly 2-3k is it?

 

Don't tell me we won't do numbers like that again, because we will....

 

Why, are you going to suddenly make it a working class mans games again? Even in the BSP football just aint that cheap.

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But I still don't think it will come to that. If it does, we'll survive. Sadly for the more twisted of you on here, I can promise you one absolute copper bottomed certainty- they'll ALWAYS be a Pompey, and however low we go, we WILL come back.......

 

That's what I keep saying, there will always be a football club in Portsmouth of some sort.

 

Some softies on here keep saying they don't want you to go out of existence, they just want you relegated - which is nonsense as they are effectively the same. If you fold and get expunged or whatever it's exactly the same as being relegated 7 or 8 times over in one hit - which ALL Saints fans must see as being a fantastic thing to happen.

 

Like it or not, finances are as much part of today's game as everything else and you are about to score the most spectacularly funny own goal in football history. FA Cup winners to Unibond Wessex league South in a couple of years.

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Have a look at this site, too, PFC

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Oxford_United_F.C.'s_average_attendances.jpg

 

It shows the attendances for Oxford United. Note the peak in 1986 when the club was in the old first division. Look at the attendances now. And it is one of the best supported clubs in the BSP.

 

It's fair to say that in 1986 the club played at the Manor Ground - a lot smaller than the Kassam Stadium - so the attendances in 1986 weren't that impressive.

 

In fact the old Manor Ground reminds me of FP somewhat :D

 

Well - a moderner & smarter version perhaps!:)

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To be honest it is a bit of a pointless argument. We'll only find out if Pompey go to the wall and if a re-incarnation ends up playing in the conference or lower. The whole trophy/attendance arguments can be good fun but they don't mean much. As a Saint what is important to me is where we're heading - I wasn't even alive when we won the cup so it's nice but not that meaningful. At the moment I'm optimistic that we'll be in the Championship in 1 to 2 years and challenging to return to the Premiership in 3 to 4 years, we'll have one or more appearances at Wembley a long the way and the quality of the team will improve. For those reasons I wouldn't swap to be in Pompey's shoes, their outlook is pretty bleak even if they survive the court case.

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Right. If we are in Blue Square division whatever, are playing absolute ******** even at that level, with zero investment, no ex players who would do a good job at that level and with no apparent hope at all of ever escaping upwards, our absolute bare minimum might be around 5-6k.

 

In reality, we would almost certainly have good money (at that level) invested from local business and the community, we'd be able to buy good quality players at that level and we'd very soon be playing attractive, winning football.

 

In this scenario, ground capacity and sensible ticket pricing permitting, we'll pull in somewhere between 8-12k as an educated guess, with more for games against teams at the top of the league and the odd 16-18k for boxing day games and F.A. cup games against higher league opposition.

 

But I still don't think it will come to that. If it does, we'll survive. Sadly for the more twisted of you on here, I can promise you one absolute copper bottomed certainty- they'll ALWAYS be a Pompey, and however low we go, we WILL come back.......

 

lol... you had 13k home fans for your last Premiership game, and yet you still quote figures near to that if you were non-league?

 

You would have next to no season ticket holders, average will probably be 5-6k, dropping dramatically for midweekers and super sh!te teams.

 

You would also have to ground share with Havant and Waterlooville ( I am not sure how you think you would sustain Fratton Park in the non-league :lol: )

 

I really hope you don't own your own business! :lol:

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Have a look at this site, too, PFC

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Oxford_United_F.C.'s_average_attendances.jpg

 

It shows the attendances for Oxford United. Note the peak in 1986 when the club was in the old first division. Look at the attendances now. And it is one of the best supported clubs in the BSP.

 

It's fair to say that in 1986 the club played at the Manor Ground - a lot smaller than the Kassam Stadium - so the attendances in 1986 weren't that impressive.

 

In fact the old Manor Ground reminds me of FP somewhat :D

 

Also of possible interest is this one showing the AFC wimbledon attendances:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AFC_Wimbledon_seasons

 

Which shows that when they were first established they got about 3K, then even as they were being promoted up the leagues this fell to 2.5K then recovered to 3K the year they won conference south.

Edited by pedg
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I'm not quite sure why the BSP is being seen as the starting point for the new club. The arguments about size etc are a bit irrelevant, as it's a new club, playing at a different ground (FP would simply not be sustainable at a non league level.....unless, I suppose, you adopt Storrie's approach to running a business. Just because there's a big catchment area, doesn't mean they should get dropped in at BSP level.

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lol... you had 13k home fans for your last Premiership game, and yet you still quote figures near to that if you were non-league?

 

You would have next to no season ticket holders, average will probably be 5-6k, dropping dramatically for midweekers and super sh!te teams.

 

You would also have to ground share with Havant and Waterlooville ( I am not sure how you think you would sustain Fratton Park in the non-league :lol: )

 

I really hope you don't own your own business! :lol:

 

Own his own business lol!! ... I suppose he might just have a paper round, does that count!

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Milan Mandaric suddenly realised that spending more money that you have is a bad idea.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/feb/16/milan-mandaric-portsmouth-administration

 

Pompey not getting much sympathy from wolves.

 

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_5953493,00.html

 

Two very telling bits in there pedg;

 

 

The Wolves boss said in the Express and Star: "We had a player in my office and wanted to sign him and we couldn't match the deal that was being offered down there. It would be grossly unfair to name the player.

"Then another one that we were trying to sign and we were negotiating with also ended up at Portsmouth, on a deal that we wouldn't be prepared to give him.

"It doesn't make me feel bitter, not at all, but it's ****-eyed that football is allowed to get so much in debt.

 

 

So two players that Wolves lost out on, when pompey threw around offers, that Wolves couldn't or wouldnt meet. The reality of course is that pompey couldn't meet them either, but that didn't bother them - they still got the players.

 

Would be interesting to know who they are and when this was - I'm sure HMRC would be interested as well.

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You're going to be sooooo disappointed.......

 

an AFC Pompey would not be Portsmouth Football Club, an AFC Pompey would have started to be in existence from 2010 and won nothing. Like an AFC Saints would not be Southampton Football club or FC United of Manchester be Manchester United.

 

Two different entities.

 

Portsmouth Football Club is in serious danger of going bust, bankrupt, cease to exist.

 

Face it.

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Ok then, from the scenario I painted originally, i.e. a team in the lower reaches, but on the way back up, how about these examples from Division 4:

 

Pompey v Bradford 20th Oct 1979. Attendance: 23,871

Pompey v Newport 23rd Oct 1979. Attendance: 20,755

Pompey v Aldershat 1st Jan 1980. Attendance: 23,462

Pompey v Huddersfield 23rd Feb 1980. Attendance: 19,203

Pompey v Walsall 22nd Mar 1980. Attendance: 21,785

 

Pompey v Boro F.A.cup 9th Jan 1980. Attendance: 31,743

 

And all the other home games that season range between 10k-15k. Hardly 2-3k is it?

 

Don't tell me we won't do numbers like that again, because we will....

 

Fast forward 7 years, the "sleeping giant" was back in the big time at last, they were going to show the world how "massive" they were as thousands were finally, excitedly, realising the dream. Nothing to stop them now.

 

1987 average crowd for this monumentous season - 17k - a barely half-full ground. How disappointing.

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Right. If we are in Blue Square division whatever, are playing absolute ******** even at that level, with zero investment, no ex players who would do a good job at that level and with no apparent hope at all of ever escaping upwards, our absolute bare minimum might be around 5-6k.

 

In reality, we would almost certainly have good money (at that level) invested from local business and the community, we'd be able to buy good quality players at that level and we'd very soon be playing attractive, winning football.

 

In this scenario, ground capacity and sensible ticket pricing permitting, we'll pull in somewhere between 8-12k as an educated guess, with more for games against teams at the top of the league and the odd 16-18k for boxing day games and F.A. cup games against higher league opposition.

 

But I still don't think it will come to that. If it does, we'll survive. Sadly for the more twisted of you on here, I can promise you one absolute copper bottomed certainty- they'll ALWAYS be a Pompey, and however low we go, we WILL come back.......

 

Sadly I can't argue with that last fact, but those other middling teams from medium-sized towns/cities have struggled to get back in the league & you don't have to go back money years to find attendances under 8000 so it could bea long haul

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Right. If we are in Blue Square division whatever.....

 

But I still don't think it will come to that. If it does, we'll survive. Sadly for the more twisted of you on here, I can promise you one absolute copper bottomed certainty- they'll ALWAYS be a Pompey, and however low we go, we WILL come back.......

 

As a matter of interest, just what do you think will happen? Do you really believe that Storrie has buyers lined up, raring to part with their money to save Pompey? Because, as far as I can see, that's the only way that Pompey will escape being wound up. There's simply no other way out.

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It's all gone rather quiet at the moment hasn't it? Only official word out of FP is Grant saying how well all his injured players have done, or something similar.

 

Earlier posted that Story was quoted on both the 14th and 15th saying 48 hours. Now realise the one of the 15th was just quoting the one of the 14th which means they must be being taken over any second now. I assume those with contacts in the media will already have advanced notice of the press conference later today when the new owners will be revealed and the statement of account will be ripped up in front of the assembled hacks???

Edited by pedg
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Right forgetting all this 'my ****' is bigger than yours, sh1t. It is my understanding, and I stand to be corrected, that any transactions carried out by Poor smouth, after being issued the winding up order in October last year, will be deemed to be illegal. So if true, they will have breached the FA' rules by playing ineleagable players. So, IMO, all games involving said players, would have to be struck/replayed. All transfers would be nul and void.

 

As I said, I stand to be corrected.

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http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Pompey-prepare-statement-for-court.6074736.jp

 

It comes as a source at Pompey refuted claims from chief executive Peter Storrie that the club were '48 hours' from agreeing a deal with a prospective investor.

 

Meanwhile, the FA said should Pompey be wound-up they would consider either putting Birmingham straight through to the semi finals of the FA Cup or even allowing Southampton to take Pompey's place in the last eight of the competition

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Right forgetting all this 'my ****' is bigger than yours, sh1t. It is my understanding, and I stand to be corrected, that any transactions carried out by Poor smouth, after being issued the winding up order in October last year, will be deemed to be illegal. So if true, they will have breached the FA' rules by playing ineleagable players. So, IMO, all games involving said players, would have to be struck/replayed. All transfers would be nul and void.

 

As I said, I stand to be corrected.

 

Look at this!

 

Advertisement of the Petition

15 days (or sometimes more) before the hearing, the petition can be"advertised" in the London Gazette. Of course all high street banks and lenders monitor this very carefully because if a customer is involved in such an action they usually MUST freeze the bank account immediately - thus stopping any trading. The purpose of this is stop assets being sold or other transactions that may worsen the creditor’s position. This is to stop dissipation of assets under s127 Insolvency Act 1986.

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But Vantis, the business recovery service putting together the report, said it was working hard at producing the document which will list all of the club's debts and incoming money such as ticket sales, Premier League money, FA Cup cash as well as details of
potential
new investors.

Strange. I thought that the statement of account was supposed to deal in definitive facts not Storys wishful thinking.

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But Vantis, the business recovery service putting together the report, said it was working hard at producing the document which will list all of the club's debts and incoming money such as ticket sales, Premier League money, FA Cup cash as well as details of
potential
new investors.

Strange. I thought that the statement of account was supposed to deal in definitive facts not Storys wishful thinking.

 

Me too, but I'm confident that a judge specialising in bankruptcy will see through any make-believe. After all, they must hear from Walter Mittys all the time.

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Look at this!

 

Advertisement of the Petition

15 days (or sometimes more) before the hearing, the petition can be"advertised" in the London Gazette. Of course all high street banks and lenders monitor this very carefully because if a customer is involved in such an action they usually MUST freeze the bank account immediately - thus stopping any trading. The purpose of this is stop assets being sold or other transactions that may worsen the creditor’s position. This is to stop dissipation of assets under s127 Insolvency Act 1986.

 

 

Last time they were mentioned in the Gazette was 29th Jan (confirming the Winding Up Order) http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/59321/pages/1551

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Two very telling bits in there pedg;

 

 

The Wolves boss said in the Express and Star: "We had a player in my office and wanted to sign him and we couldn't match the deal that was being offered down there. It would be grossly unfair to name the player.

"Then another one that we were trying to sign and we were negotiating with also ended up at Portsmouth, on a deal that we wouldn't be prepared to give him.

"It doesn't make me feel bitter, not at all, but it's ****-eyed that football is allowed to get so much in debt.

 

 

So two players that Wolves lost out on, when pompey threw around offers, that Wolves couldn't or wouldnt meet. The reality of course is that pompey couldn't meet them either, but that didn't bother them - they still got the players.

 

Would be interesting to know who they are and when this was - I'm sure HMRC would be interested as well.

 

Well, it appears more of the disgusting behaviour synomymous with Portsmouth football club has become apparent today. Disgraceful.

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Question is how much of this statement that Vantis are preparing is fixed in stone and would be the same who ever prepared it and how much is down to the judgement of the person preparing the statement? As Vantis are being paid by PFC to prepare this report one assumes their brief is to prepare it within the rules but that within these rules to err on the side that is most beneficial to PFC where possible? So basically wondering how 'flexible' can they be in preparing the report?

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As a matter of interest, just what do you think will happen? Do you really believe that Storrie has buyers lined up, raring to part with their money to save Pompey? Because, as far as I can see, that's the only way that Pompey will escape being wound up. There's simply no other way out.

 

Honestly? No idea. Logically it would make sense for anyone with a passing interest to just wait for us to be forced out of business and see if the wreckage would still qualify for the parachute payments. Don't profess to know what legal hoops would need to be jumped through on that one.

 

It might be that Storrie has a deal with some value in it for someone to come in now and stave off the winding up petitions. There's not a great deal of value left there either, so he hasn't got much left to play with.

 

Who knows? :confused:

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Question is how much of this statement that Vantis are preparing is fixed in stone and would be the same who ever prepared it and how much is down to the judgement of the person preparing the statement? As Vantis are being paid by PFC to prepare this report one assumes their brief is to prepare it within the rules but that within these rules to err on the side that is most beneficial to PFC where possible? So basically wondering how 'flexible' can they be in preparing the report?
I dont know Vantis's reputation, but I am a tad less confident of their work than if it was a Price Waterhouse type operation. As Vantis had already been there working and hads not flagged any wrongdoing i am a little cynical
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HMRC would have already provided a lot of evidence re tax or non payment of tax in Pompey business dealings...Therefore Vantis report will have to show all debt to concur with HMRC and other evidence already submitted.....Or the good lady at the court will not be best pleased and start the old Mick Channon whirl...

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I dont know Vantis's reputation, but I am a tad less confident of their work than if it was a Price Waterhouse type operation. As Vantis had already been there working and hads not flagged any wrongdoing i am a little cynical

 

Agent Orange is working on our behalf though.......

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an AFC Pompey would not be Portsmouth Football Club, an AFC Pompey would have started to be in existence from 2010 and won nothing. Like an AFC Saints would not be Southampton Football club or FC United of Manchester be Manchester United.

 

Two different entities.

 

Portsmouth Football Club is in serious danger of going bust, bankrupt, cease to exist.

 

Face it.

 

No. FC United is not Manchester United, because there's already a Manchester United. However, if Portsmouth FC goes tits up and is replaced by AFC Pompey or whatever, effectively it will be the same club, in the same colours. Maybe playing at a different ground, but to us Pompey fans it will still be Pompey.

 

A deal with the reciever to retain the trophy room contents would be one of the first priorities, so you can forget any dewy eyed visions of seeing the whole lot melted down for scrap. It won't happen, and it WILL be the same club followed by the same fans whatever numbers we muster......

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HMRC would have already provided a lot of evidence re tax or non payment of tax in Pompey business dealings...Therefore Vantis report will have to show all debt to concur with HMRC and other evidence already submitted.....Or the good lady at the court will not be best pleased and start the old Mick Channon whirl...

 

I suppose its that although a lot of debts are known could the possibly 'massage' (no Avram not that sort) the value of the assets at all?

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It's all gone rather quiet at the moment hasn't it? Only official word out of FP is Grant saying how well all his injured players have done, or something similar.

 

Earlier posted that Story was quoted on both the 14th and 15th saying 48 hours. Now realise the one of the 15th was just quoting the one of the 14th which means they must be being taken over any second now. I assume those with contacts in the media will already have advanced notice of the press conference later today when the new owners will be revealed and the statement of account will be ripped up in front of the assembled hacks???

 

Time passes...Frodo waits.......

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A deal with the reciever to retain the trophy room contents would be one of the first priorities, so you can forget any dewy eyed visions of seeing the whole lot melted down for scrap. It won't happen, and it WILL be the same club followed by the same fans whatever numbers we muster......

 

Think as things stand you might have to trawl round some pawnbrokers to retrieve the contents of your trophy cabinet.

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Question is how much of this statement that Vantis are preparing is fixed in stone and would be the same who ever prepared it and how much is down to the judgement of the person preparing the statement? As Vantis are being paid by PFC to prepare this report one assumes their brief is to prepare it within the rules but that within these rules to err on the side that is most beneficial to PFC where possible? So basically wondering how 'flexible' can they be in preparing the report?

 

It says in the 'News' article that Vantis are confident of having the statement finished by Wednesday morning so they may present to the board - of PFC.

 

What the board do with it after that is up to them I guess, but THEY [not Vantis] have been ordered to provide an accurate Statement of Affairs by the Court....

 

Nick O'Reilly, client partner at Vantis Business Recovery Service, a division of Vantis, said: 'We are hard at work and remain confident that we will complete the statement of affairs report by Wednesday morning, for submission to the board and owners of Portsmouth Football Club.'

 

I'm sure the HMRC and Courts are expecting a pretty grim picture to be painted, but wouldn't be shocked if the alternative was presented to them....

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Agent Orange is working on our behalf though.......

 

Well he was about as useful as a chocolate teapot to us so I would'nt rely on him to work on our behalf !

Its perfectly conceivable he could ****** the whole thing up one way or another!

 

Wonder if he is flying in from Portugal at Storrie's expense though... :D

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Well he was about as useful as a chocolate teapot to us so I would'nt rely on him to work on our behalf !

Its perfectly conceivable he could ****** the whole thing up one way or another!

 

Wonder if he is flying in from Portugal at Storrie's expense though... :D

 

nah, probably took it from the St John's Ambulance account again

 

(Allegedly according to some media insinuations)

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No. FC United is not Manchester United, because there's already a Manchester United. However, if Portsmouth FC goes tits up and is replaced by AFC Pompey or whatever, effectively it will be the same club, in the same colours. Maybe playing at a different ground, but to us Pompey fans it will still be Pompey.

 

A deal with the reciever to retain the trophy room contents would be one of the first priorities, so you can forget any dewy eyed visions of seeing the whole lot melted down for scrap. It won't happen, and it WILL be the same club followed by the same fans whatever numbers we muster......

 

It isn't the same club as it won't be allowed to keep the history and achievement of Portsmouth and call them its own.

 

Yes, the phoenix club will be a direct replacement but it is a different entity.

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It says in the 'News' article that Vantis are confident of having the statement finished by Wednesday morning so they may present to the board - of PFC.

 

What the board do with it after that is up to them I guess, but THEY [not Vantis] have been ordered to provide an accurate Statement of Affairs by the Court....

 

Nick O'Reilly, client partner at Vantis Business Recovery Service, a division of Vantis, said: 'We are hard at work and remain confident that we will complete the statement of affairs report by Wednesday morning, for submission to the board and owners of Portsmouth Football Club.'

 

I'm sure the HMRC and Courts are expecting a pretty grim picture to be painted, but wouldn't be shocked if the alternative was presented to them....

 

 

He hehehe

 

So Vantis will give the SoA to the PCFC Board tomorrow.

 

Let us assume that will be at Nottarf Krap.

 

They then have to do their Board Meeting thingyg and no doubt sign some sort of part of it.

 

That then has to be got up to the Court in London by 5pm?....

 

 

So good day to organise a GridLock with the transport system tomorrow

 

:D

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Honestly? No idea. Logically it would make sense for anyone with a passing interest to just wait for us to be forced out of business and see if the wreckage would still qualify for the parachute payments. Don't profess to know what legal hoops would need to be jumped through on that one.

 

It might be that Storrie has a deal with some value in it for someone to come in now and stave off the winding up petitions. There's not a great deal of value left there either, so he hasn't got much left to play with.

 

Who knows? :confused:

I should have thought that any parachute payments, if still legally due to a company that no longer existed, would have gone to offset the debts of that company when it was wound up. There is no way that they could go to a new company.

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No. FC United is not Manchester United, because there's already a Manchester United. However, if Portsmouth FC goes tits up and is replaced by AFC Pompey or whatever, effectively it will be the same club, in the same colours. Maybe playing at a different ground, but to us Pompey fans it will still be Pompey.

 

A deal with the reciever to retain the trophy room contents would be one of the first priorities, so you can forget any dewy eyed visions of seeing the whole lot melted down for scrap. It won't happen, and it WILL be the same club followed by the same fans whatever numbers we muster......

 

But an AFC Pompey would have no right to claim them as they wouldn't be owned or earned by AFC Pompey!

 

They'd be forever in the hands of the club that won them, the club that went bankrupt!

 

You'd have as much chance trying to claim Man U's 1999 Champions League as AFC Pompey's, an AFC Pompey and Portsmouth football club are two different entities

Edited by JackFrost
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