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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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Joensuu

Joensuu

Posted
Posted
Plus they have already effectivly been given a portion of the gate money from the tickets they were given which they have almost certainly already spent.

 

Oh yeah £120,000 wasn't it?

 

Hmmm, if we pay the police well, they might even end up owing us money...

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saintbletch

saintbletch

Posted
Posted
I think she resigned when the fraudster started running things but I assume she was reinstated when Chainrai came riding into town?

 

That's certainly what I thought but the Telegraph piece says that she was forced off the board. Odd.

 

And in this article pointed out below.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1249103/Duke-Westminster-pushing-Portsmouth-edge.html?ITO=1490

 

It says that she was also on the board of a failed company that didn't pay it's lease to Grovesnor Properties Basingstoke and that PCFC Ltd underwrote the lease. GPB is one of the other companies originally on the winding-up petition.

 

GPB claim they are owed £90,000 by Portsmouth because the club, for reasons that are unclear, agreed to guarantee the lease on a shop in the Festival Place centre in Basingstoke.

 

The unit was leased by South Coast Investments Ltd, whose board includes former Portsmouth directors Tanya Robins and Roberto Avondo. Bruce Vandenberg, like Avondo a close associate of erstwhile Pompey owner Alexandre Gaydamak, is a former South Coast director.

South Coast went into administration last July, around the time Gaydamak sold Portsmouth.

 

Can Finance Directors be imprisoned for knowingly trading while insolvent? Or can they be banned from holding further directorships because she appears to be in a spot of bother. I hope someone's stuffing a few quid somewhere "off-shore" for her, to make it all worthwhile.

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Thedelldays

Thedelldays

Posted
Posted

pompey are well known to be shifty and not pay local businesses...they have been like this for years...even when they had diarra, campbell etc in their team

 

they got thrown out of HMS Dryad a few years ago for not paying up...and apparently HMS Collingwood have done (or did) something similar recently

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted

Can Finance Directors be imprisoned for knowingly trading while insolvent? Or can they be banned from holding further directorships because she appears to be in a spot of bother. I hope someone's stuffing a few quid somewhere "off-shore" for her, to make it all worthwhile.

 

Apparently the banks in Hayling Island have been having a bumper month :D

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted (edited)

Talking of their debts do we have any idea who the other creditors were who joined the WOU? Wonder if the electric company still need paying.

 

Think there will be an awful lot of medium sized debts that like when you buy quite a few things on your credit card can soon add up to a sizable total.

 

Plus I said before could well be a large amount owed in unpaid image rights. Sol Campbell went for a long time without getting his and did not comlain at the time so you suspect that while they have been paying the players wages (eventually) their payments for image rights would almost certainly have been skipped. Campbell was on 30K a week for his image rights (aka tax dodge) alone so I expect it will be quite a large figure.

Edited by pedg
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Tamesaint

Tamesaint

Posted
Posted
Very much so. I'd have thought the FD is the first person scrutinised when a company is found to be trading while insolvent.

 

Probably why she left the board in the first place. She knew that what was going on was wrong and didn't want to be liable for it. At the very least she probably has professional qualifications which she would lose.

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Goalie66

Goalie66

Posted
Posted
That's certainly what I thought but the Telegraph piece says that she was forced off the board. Odd.

 

And in this article pointed out below.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1249103/Duke-Westminster-pushing-Portsmouth-edge.html?ITO=1490

 

It says that she was also on the board of a failed company that didn't pay it's lease to Grovesnor Properties Basingstoke and that PCFC Ltd underwrote the lease. GPB is one of the other companies originally on the winding-up petition.

 

 

 

Can Finance Directors be imprisoned for knowingly trading while insolvent? Or can they be banned from holding further directorships because she appears to be in a spot of bother. I hope someone's stuffing a few quid somewhere "off-shore" for her, to make it all worthwhile.

 

Yes on both questions

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

is this where they are now?

 

£7.4M Vat

£4.7M Paye

£18M Chanrai

£28M Armsboy

£3M listed creditors

£1.7M Good old Sol

£5M Transfers

£1M legal/accountancy/shredding?

 

Lets look at the next six months for stability with some very 'back-of-an-envelope' maths.....

£14M for wages and paye which I think they will ought to keep on top of!

 

They must have some transfer money due in soon, let's guess that and some match income will account for Sol and their huge legal bills - though they will stall on these and run up further legal bills.

 

I would say they could restructure the two big debts to hold onto the stadium but they are going to come in at £1.5M a month repayments?

The others will need maybe half up front now and the rest a bit sharpish to keep them quiet.

 

Plucking figures out of the air in the way that Storrie does business, I would say a new owner needs to put about £12M (half to taxman, rest to satisfy others) on the table next week and PROVE that he has £38M to put in before August.

If he can invest more than £50M to get them to the relative sanctuary of Sky payment and season ticket sales - is that about £10M + £3M? he would then be approx £37M down and the proud owner of a struggling championship club facing charges of financial irregularities, and still with £30M debt to clear.

 

With some creditors cleared and wage bill trimmed as the dive down the leagues gathers pace, the running costs would then drop to only £3.5M a month, income would be maybe half of that, and he would then need to file for administration at Christmas once he has lost approx £50M, Chanrai would then reclaim the stadium for the balance of his debt, and there would be nothing to sell.

 

If we want to look really long term and make the business profitable you need a new squad and stadium as well so an ambitious owner would need to have £250M and a five year plan - a bit like putting a WRC spoiler on your Metro.

 

Mmmmm - I wonder how that big bidding war is going between the two interested parties.

Someone might scrape together £6M-£8M to cover an initial payment in the hope of seeing that Sky money but I don't see much proof of progress beyond that.

 

And as for the league paying Pompey in advance to sign loan players to get them past their fellow league members….?

 

Avram Grant charged with improper conduct? – No, he gets a lot more improper than that down at Unit One.

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Joey-deacons-left-nut

Joey-deacons-left-nut

Posted
Posted

It's over.. face it.... after reading that lot they havn't got a cat in hells chance... Storrie et all are still clinging onto the false hope of the appeal regarding the vat issue.. I honestly don't believe they realise how in the mire they are yet... they've got away with it so far and are probably thinking they will continue to get away with as no one wants to kill a football club....

 

Oh well....

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
that is a ****ing scandal if its true. did the pl not learn anything from their carlos teves **** up?

 

there would be lawsuits all over the place

 

What's the betting they say something like all teams that might be relegated can be loaned some of their possible parachute payments at some interest rate that would only be a sensible option if you can't get money from anywhere else?

 

Result. Pompey take the money and survive but probably none of the others (except maybe hull?) do. That way the PL can appear to be unbias.

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Chin Strain

Chin Strain

Posted
Posted
What's the betting they say something like all teams that might be relegated can be loaned some of their possible parachute payments at some interest rate that would only be a sensible option if you can't get money from anywhere else?

 

Result. Pompey take the money and survive but probably none of the others (except maybe hull?) do. That way the PL can appear to be unbias.

 

Wouldn't help anyone as they couldn't do anything with it. Pompey should have made more effort to sell everyone who wasn't nailed down in January. Loaning them money is effectively allowing them to keep players that should have been sold in January. Effectively they're cheating for keeping those players.

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sidthesquid

sidthesquid

Posted
Posted

Rallyboy: Lets look at the next six months for stability with some very 'back-of-an-envelope' maths.....

£14M for wages and paye which I think they will ought to keep on top of!

 

A bit of an understimate, I'afraid. Total monthly wage bill is approx £3 mill (& approx another £1 mill PAYE/NI) - so their wage bill is nearer £24 mill than £14 mill

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sidthesquid

sidthesquid

Posted
Posted
Wouldn't help anyone as they couldn't do anything with it. Pompey should have made more effort to sell everyone who wasn't nailed down in January. Loaning them money is effectively allowing them to keep players that should have been sold in January. Effectively they're cheating for keeping those players.

 

I actually don't think they could get shot of any of them - useless players on bonkers contracts are, as we found to our cost , are much less than worthless. Who else would pay Utaka £80k/week or Mullins £20k?

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Chin Strain

Chin Strain

Posted
Posted
is this where they are now?

 

£7.4M Vat

£4.7M Paye

£18M Chanrai

£28M Armsboy

£3M listed creditors

£1.7M Good old Sol

£5M Transfers

£1M legal/accountancy/shredding?

 

Lets look at the next six months for stability with some very 'back-of-an-envelope' maths.....

£14M for wages and paye which I think they will ought to keep on top of!

 

They must have some transfer money due in soon, let's guess that and some match income will account for Sol and their huge legal bills - though they will stall on these and run up further legal bills.

 

I would say they could restructure the two big debts to hold onto the stadium but they are going to come in at £1.5M a month repayments?

The others will need maybe half up front now and the rest a bit sharpish to keep them quiet.

 

Plucking figures out of the air in the way that Storrie does business, I would say a new owner needs to put about £12M (half to taxman, rest to satisfy others) on the table next week and PROVE that he has £38M to put in before August.

If he can invest more than £50M to get them to the relative sanctuary of Sky payment and season ticket sales - is that about £10M + £3M? he would then be approx £37M down and the proud owner of a struggling championship club facing charges of financial irregularities, and still with £30M debt to clear.

 

With some creditors cleared and wage bill trimmed as the dive down the leagues gathers pace, the running costs would then drop to only £3.5M a month, income would be maybe half of that, and he would then need to file for administration at Christmas once he has lost approx £50M, Chanrai would then reclaim the stadium for the balance of his debt, and there would be nothing to sell.

 

If we want to look really long term and make the business profitable you need a new squad and stadium as well so an ambitious owner would need to have £250M and a five year plan - a bit like putting a WRC spoiler on your Metro.

 

Mmmmm - I wonder how that big bidding war is going between the two interested parties.

Someone might scrape together £6M-£8M to cover an initial payment in the hope of seeing that Sky money but I don't see much proof of progress beyond that.

 

And as for the league paying Pompey in advance to sign loan players to get them past their fellow league members….?

 

Avram Grant charged with improper conduct? – No, he gets a lot more improper than that down at Unit One.

 

Don't forget that they restructured the remaining payments to other clubs for various transfer payments, sell on clauses etc. Dindane alone is sitting pretty at £3.5m, Udinese are owed for Muntari (couple of mil I think), Watford, Chelsea and Spurs also owed apparently.

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Chin Strain

Chin Strain

Posted
Posted
I actually don't think they could get shot of any of them - useless players on bonkers contracts are, as we found to our cost , are much less than worthless. Who else would pay Utaka £80k/week or Mullins £20k?

 

Agreed with those, but some kind of deal to flog Boateng and Belhadj would have been a goer. I know Boateng has played 5 mins for Spurs this season, but I'm sure UEFA would have cut some slack to give them some breathing space. Even if they were asked, and said no, I'm sure that someone would have had a sale and loan back deal put together if the deal had been right.

The bottom line is that they just didn't do anything to help themselves out. My guess would be that they know the best chance of staying alive is to stay up. Without that they're definitely dead in the water (as opposed to almost definitely dead), so they played the high risk card and are trying to string it out until the end of the season...only HMRC haven't been reading the script.

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Kingsland Red

Kingsland Red

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm loving Peter Storrie still not appreciating being the situation.

 

- The report by Vantis is detailing the ability for Pompey to pay off all debts in the agreed timescales ( not just HMRC). eg They were due to pay Gaydamak £8m at the end of last month.

 

- The Vantis report on solvency is based on information available up to the High Court appearance.

 

- Pompey are challenging HMRC on the purchasers ( of players ) paying VAT. As pointed out in court by the HMRC barrister, if Pompey believed the vendor should pay the VAT then they would be even worse off!

 

All the HMRC have done is provided seven days of rope for Pompey to hang themselves.

 

Priceless!!

Edited by Kingsland Red
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hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted
Things are starting to look up for them, not only is Tanya Roberts back on board, but they've arranged a Company car for her.

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/4999259._Insolvent__Portsmouth_have_nine_days_to_be_rescued/?ref=mr

:D Took me a while to find it (it's late here).

 

And more disinformation from the Echo. The 7 days is not extended to 9 because the Courts are full. PFC were given 7 days - to 4pm Wednesday - to file the SoA at Court, with a copy to HMRC lawyers. HMRC then have 2 days - to 4pm Friday - to file their reply, with a copy to PFC lawyers. Then back in Court on the first available Court date after that, which would be Monday 22nd. I'm sure they'll make space.

 

HTH;)

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hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted
Probably why she left the board in the first place. She knew that what was going on was wrong and didn't want to be liable for it. At the very least she probably has professional qualifications which she would lose.

I'm sure that's the least of her worries. Not only would she risk being barred from being a director, but also a criminal prosecution. If found guilty, I'm sure she would also be exposed to civil proceedings from anybody who loses money when they go tïts up.

 

How would you feel if you were a woman, trying to sleep but waiting, in the dead of night, for TCWTB to come knocking to get a refund on the unused portion of his season ticket?

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EastleighSoulBoy

EastleighSoulBoy

Posted
Posted
I'm sure that's the least of her worries. Not only would she risk being barred from being a director, but also a criminal prosecution. If found guilty, I'm sure she would also be exposed to civil proceedings from anybody who loses money when they go tïts up.

 

How would you feel if you were a woman, trying to sleep but waiting, in the dead of night, for TCWTB to come knocking to get a refund on the unused portion of his season ticket?

 

That's so graphic it terrifies me!

 

'Heeere's Johhny!'

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
I'm sure that's the least of her worries. Not only would she risk being barred from being a director, but also a criminal prosecution. If found guilty, I'm sure she would also be exposed to civil proceedings from anybody who loses money when they go tïts up.

 

How would you feel if you were a woman, trying to sleep but waiting, in the dead of night, for TCWTB to come knocking to get a refund on the unused portion of his season ticket?

 

'ring ring'

 

Oh I wonder who that is at the door

 

but wait a minute I thought we had a buzzer....?

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gaz

gaz

Posted
Posted

Apologies if its been mentioned last night or today, but these ''two bidders'', have they stepped forwards at all? Any rumblings or hints of who?

 

Or do you think its Storyteller teling fibs to the court as a last ditch to get a stay of execution?

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hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted
... Plucking figures out of the air in the way that Storrie does business, I would say a new owner needs to put about £12M (half to taxman, rest to satisfy others) on the table next week and PROVE that he has £38M to put in before August ...

Personally, I can't see HMRC settling for anything less than the full amount from a company which they know, as we do, that is trading while insolvent.

 

Especially when they see their copy of the numbers given to the PL in January, to get the transfer ban partially lifted, next Wednesday. They will find that PFC "conned" the PL into lifting the ban, thereby allowing themselves to increase their current liabilities and reducing their ongoing ability to pay off their debts.

 

They smell blood. I heard that at their last visit to FP, as they got out of the car, they were heard to say "What's that blöödy smell?"

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Channon's Sideburns

Channon's Sideburns

Posted
Posted
I'm sure that's the least of her worries. Not only would she risk being barred from being a director, but also a criminal prosecution. If found guilty, I'm sure she would also be exposed to civil proceedings from anybody who loses money when they go tïts up.

 

How would you feel if you were a woman, trying to sleep but waiting, in the dead of night, for TCWTB to come knocking to get a refund on the unused portion of his season ticket?

 

So, if she 'left' the board (for whatever reason - eg to avoid prosecution) why stay as Finance Manager?

 

If it was squeaky bum time for me in her job I would have run to the hills....not allow myself to be put forward as spokesperson in the High Court.

 

Leave Storrie to that, he's the financial genius....

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Channon's Sideburns

Channon's Sideburns

Posted
Posted
Personally, I can't see HMRC settling for anything less than the full amount from a company which they know, as we do, that is trading while insolvent.

 

Especially when they see their copy of the numbers given to the PL in January, to get the transfer ban partially lifted, next Wednesday. They will find that PFC "conned" the PL into lifting the ban, thereby allowing themselves to increase their current liabilities and reducing their ongoing ability to pay off their debts.

 

They smell blood. I heard that at their last visit to FP, as they got out of the car, they were heard to say "What's that blöödy smell?"

 

Hutch, another little 'white lie' put forward by Storrie yesterday...

 

When asked about why was Pompey such a fantastic catch...obviously he went on about the club, atmosphere, etc....but he also said the debts had been reduced dramatically.

 

Now, if this was the TRUTH, surely players and staff, PAYE and VAT would be paid on time?

 

Not only that - he says that their running costs are less - does he include the random loanees and free agents they have swept up lately?

 

Are they being paid with Jelly Beans or something?

 

OH....ok.

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ALWAYS_SFC

ALWAYS_SFC

Posted
Posted
Apologies if its been mentioned last night or today, but these ''two bidders'', have they stepped forwards at all? Any rumblings or hints of who?

 

Or do you think its Storyteller teling fibs to the court as a last ditch to get a stay of execution?

 

The "HO" usually let`s us know about the big backers...:D

 

Where is he by the way?

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hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted
... but he also said the debts had been reduced dramatically ...

IMHO, it was a bit of "economical" truth. As we now know, "football" debts have priority, and must be paid in full, if they want to be allowed to continue to play football.

 

A reasonable proportion of Pompey's "football" debts have been paid off recently by the PL, by witholding the money from the Sky and incoming transfer fees. So, in that respect the "football" debts (i.e. the ones which, according to Pompeys flawed strategy, actually have to be paid) have been substantially reduced.

 

Everybody else can whistle in the wind.

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St Chalet

St Chalet

Posted
Posted
is this where they are now?

 

£7.4M Vat

£4.7M Paye

£18M Chanrai

£28M Armsboy

£3M listed creditors

£1.7M Good old Sol

£5M Transfers

£1M legal/accountancy/shredding?

 

Lets look at the next six months for stability with some very 'back-of-an-envelope' maths.....

£14M for wages and paye which I think they will ought to keep on top of!

 

They must have some transfer money due in soon, let's guess that and some match income will account for Sol and their huge legal bills - though they will stall on these and run up further legal bills.

 

I would say they could restructure the two big debts to hold onto the stadium but they are going to come in at £1.5M a month repayments?

The others will need maybe half up front now and the rest a bit sharpish to keep them quiet.

 

Plucking figures out of the air in the way that Storrie does business, I would say a new owner needs to put about £12M (half to taxman, rest to satisfy others) on the table next week and PROVE that he has £38M to put in before August.

If he can invest more than £50M to get them to the relative sanctuary of Sky payment and season ticket sales - is that about £10M + £3M? he would then be approx £37M down and the proud owner of a struggling championship club facing charges of financial irregularities, and still with £30M debt to clear.

 

With some creditors cleared and wage bill trimmed as the dive down the leagues gathers pace, the running costs would then drop to only £3.5M a month, income would be maybe half of that, and he would then need to file for administration at Christmas once he has lost approx £50M, Chanrai would then reclaim the stadium for the balance of his debt, and there would be nothing to sell.

 

If we want to look really long term and make the business profitable you need a new squad and stadium as well so an ambitious owner would need to have £250M and a five year plan - a bit like putting a WRC spoiler on your Metro.

 

Mmmmm - I wonder how that big bidding war is going between the two interested parties.

Someone might scrape together £6M-£8M to cover an initial payment in the hope of seeing that Sky money but I don't see much proof of progress beyond that.

 

And as for the league paying Pompey in advance to sign loan players to get them past their fellow league members….?

 

Avram Grant charged with improper conduct? – No, he gets a lot more improper than that down at Unit One.

 

Stranger things have happened

 

mg_metro_6r4_lg_1(1).jpg

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Jimmy Gabriel's Halo

Jimmy Gabriel's Halo

Posted
Posted

Paul Miller (ex Spuds player) was on 5 Live earlier this evening. He is now involved, to what degree I don't know, in football finance. To cut a long story short he said he'd heard nothing on the grapevine about any "investors" interested in P*rtsmouth and thought that, having regards to the debt situation, anyone putting themselves forward as such would be the usual self publicists seeking their 15 minutes or completely mad.

He did not, however, make any reference to the Statement of Affairs requested by the recorder and I did actually wonder if he had a full grasp of the situation. But then, in fairness, who has ?

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EastleighSoulBoy

EastleighSoulBoy

Posted
Posted
IMHO, it was a bit of "economical" truth. As we now know, "football" debts have priority, and must be paid in full, if they want to be allowed to continue to play football.

 

A reasonable proportion of Pompey's "football" debts have been paid off recently by the PL, by witholding the money from the Sky and incoming transfer fees. So, in that respect the "football" debts (i.e. the ones which, according to Pompeys flawed strategy, actually have to be paid) have been substantially reduced.

 

Everybody else can whistle in the wind.

 

Indeed, if the PL had let Pompey have that money then absolutely nobody would have been paid, apart from the directors.

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Jimmy Gabriel's Halo

Jimmy Gabriel's Halo

Posted
Posted
Southampton probably had at least two people interested in taking them over before admin.

 

The PROCESS involved "saying that you are interested" and forwarding a "proof of funds"

 

One of those was in all likelihood Helpmerhonda, the other was the mysterious Dubai based group that LLS, SaintLee & St David got all excited about some what 3 years ago now?

 

Getting those expressions of interest therefore can be deemed to be a piece of cake.

 

Making them HAPPEN or the buyers being REAL is another matter altogether!

 

Notts County apparently provided a letter from an established source of finance stating that they were prepared to refinance the club. That was a good 2 or 3 weeks ago.....

In those cases, NOTHING came (or has come) to a conclusion - in the case of County that means they have about the same amount of time as Portsmouth to complete.

 

Again, for any NEW buyer, they will want to look at a number of issues

 

What is the financial investment/liabilities/assets/business plan?

 

Hence the Due Dilligence.

 

From the simple maths and public domain information we have uncovered, this thread alone shows that the club is a pretty poor investment, especially in the current economic climate. Ashley will bite anyone's arm off to sell Newcastle for around 80 million with all it's branding passion and facilities and promotion likely.

 

BUT the real problem for PCFC now are "the unknown unknowns".

 

With the court having stated they believe the club is trading while insolvent, then UNTIL the court says "OK no it is not because you have new investment" then nobody can be sure that the authorities here will not start criminal proceedings.

 

IF the new money shows that the club will NOT be insolvent going forwards, there still remains the FACT that the court believes it WAS trading while insolvent previously.

Then you have the issue that "back dated penalties" may be applied, by the authorities AND most likely the football authorities. Certainly one of the bottom 3 in the PL (IF Pompey survive) could well have legal recourse to challenge the results obtained while being in breach of PL rules (another Tevez issue) and claim damages for relegation or demand a points deduction. They won't right now because they want to stay a part of the PL family, but the minute they look like losing their place at the trough because of this they will squeal and fight like hell.

 

As an INVESTOR the only way to get your money BACK is to regain PL status, it will not be easy in the CCC, BUT if fines and extra points deductions COULD occur then the unknown unknowns will be the issue that kills them.

 

Saints could not be sold for 20mil in the CCC. Portsmouth will need more than that and yet COULD have a minus 25 or more points for next season.

 

Investment is about minimising RISK and maximising RETURN. The Judge made it far riskier.

 

Even IF a new buyer sees something of value to them in taking on the club, I am pretty certain that they will want wait until the Financial Statement is prepared and accepted, so it all points to a frantic final 24 hours IMHO.

 

Still, who knows, there MAy still be rich fools out there, after all a fool and his money are soon parted.

 

Good luck with extraditing SBT & Al Mirage for financial misdemeanours though

 

 

Just to get you up to speed DB it is now confirmed that Notts County have been sold to a local businessman in the POUND Shop. And no I am not joking.

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
IMHO, it was a bit of "economical" truth. As we now know, "football" debts have priority, and must be paid in full, if they want to be allowed to continue to play football.

 

A reasonable proportion of Pompey's "football" debts have been paid off recently by the PL, by witholding the money from the Sky and incoming transfer fees. So, in that respect the "football" debts (i.e. the ones which, according to Pompeys flawed strategy, actually have to be paid) have been substantially reduced.

 

Everybody else can whistle in the wind.

 

I would say he was still being very economical with the truth as quite a few of their debts were not paid just postponed. Who knows when they are supposed to be paying them!

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