saintds Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 anyone else find this thred strangely addictive?!? Yep since, oh I dunno, July? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 I found this but I'm guessing the inclusion of the word 'should' makes it a moot point. Rule 21 ... (v) The Visiting Club should settle with the Home Club for sales of tickets on or before the day of the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sussexsaint Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 So the insolvency claim now means this is about more than the 11 mill yes? To get out of gaol they need to prove to the judge they can not only pay the hmrc but service their other debts and commitments yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 But it may ultimately be a pivotal day in that those responsible may now be held to account if it is proven that they were trading while insolvent. Storrie and friends may end up being held personally liable for some of the costs incurred by the club. As someone said below, I also wonder if there might be a whistle-blower. Perhaps in order to not face the charge of being a Director of a company that is trading insolvently. What about the previous Finance Director, didn't she resign her Directorship and is now just the Finance Manager? Presumably they were insolvent before she resigned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 Lifted from a Skate forum, which rather means that they can't take the "easy" route of administration. According to this voluntary administration is not possible ""An administrator of a company may not be appointed under paragraph 22 if— (a) a petition for the winding up of the company has been presented and is not yet disposed of," page 324 of link...http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/insolvencyprofessionandlegislation/legislation/uk/insolvencyact.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint si Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 Based on today, my prediction for the future redevelopment of Fratton Park... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 One way Pompey might try to avoid a painful death is to reschedule their debt according to a debt expert on South Today. He basically said that whilst the shear amount of debt would put most investors off buying Pompey, if the creditors to Pompey (Gaydamak, Chainrai, et al) agree to structure the debt and repayment schedules in a very attractive way, it might be more encouraging to an investor. For example they might accept very long repayment schedules or perhaps structuring the amount based on the division Pompey eventually free-falls into, effectively sharing the risk with the potential new owner. If you were a creditor then you might accept these otherwise unacceptable terms on the basis that in 9 days time you might get 'k all. Not sure it'll change anything much but perhaps we should stop thinking about £60M+ and instead consider that it could be something more manageable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintds Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 (edited) http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/portsmouth/article7021799.ece Q&A sums it up The club cannot afford to pay any of their debts at this stage and the registrar repeatedly stressed how concerned she was that this club was trading while insolvent. OK, so that's the Skates done for. Right then, what shall we talk about next? Edited 10 February, 2010 by saintds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommi Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 are the "they will be wound up/cease to exist/gone tomorrow/i guarantee it brigade still believing that Pompey are finished? I have said it numerous times on this thread, they will not be wound up, not cease to exist, the best we can hope for is admin in the next 7 days. HMRC had their chance today and let them off. Pompey will get out of this now, but hey, we always knew this would happen.... Sometimes I wonder if the desperation of our fans wanting to believe they will be wound up is as bad as the desperation of the skater boys believing an arab billionaire is waiting in the wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 10 February, 2010 Share Posted 10 February, 2010 are the "they will be wound up/cease to exist/gone tomorrow/i guarantee it brigade still believing that Pompey are finished? I have said it numerous times on this thread, they will not be wound up, not cease to exist, the best we can hope for is admin in the next 7 days. HMRC had their chance today and let them off. Pompey will get out of this now, but hey, we always knew this would happen.... Sometimes I wonder if the desperation of our fans wanting to believe they will be wound up is as bad as the desperation of the skater boys believing an arab billionaire is waiting in the wings. Surely it was the High Court that let them off. HMRC put forward their case, said Pompey owed them 11.5 mil, and that they were insolvent. The Judge then said they could have 7 (effectively 9) days to pay up, or shut up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 Hmmm... even if they get a big injection of cash in the next few days, may it not still be the case that they have been 'trading while insolvent'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tac-tics Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 Text doing the rounds, sent it out to some of you: Pompey chief executive Peter Storrie meets with the HMRC about the outstanding tax bill. The officer tells him "I'm going to let you off with the £11.5million tax bill as I'm a great admirer of Pompey and think they are a fantastic club". Storrie in a starled manor replies "really?" In which the tax officer says "no, I'm winding you up" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 Text doing the rounds, sent it out to some of you: Pompey chief executive Peter Storrie meets with the HMRC about the outstanding tax bill. The officer tells him "I'm going to let you off with the £11.5million tax bill as I'm a great admirer of Pompey and think they are a fantastic club". Storrie in a starled manor replies "really?" In which the tax officer says "no, I'm winding you up" Thanks for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint137 Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 At this rate this thread will implode before Pompey does, I reckon it will go pop after 16,384 posts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 Chinari won't put any of his own money in because if he was going to he would of done it yesterday and saved Portsmouth from todays fiasco. Now because of that they have basically a admin team in house looking at the finances with a fine comb. All those nasty little secrets they didn't want to come out will have to come out. Like how much everyone is being paid. They will have to show that. All the agent fees, all the player salaries and bonus'. All the people they have loans with. And then they will have to show the income and where it has come from. This piece of paper will be submitted next friday and the judge will have 2 days to make a decision on it. So whatever Storieteller or Chinny chin chin say is irellivent. Reading the times piece they quote their finance officer saying they had 2 offers on the table. This implies they had been offered, not going to be. I suspect that will turn out to be ******** too. Now hopefully we stuff them on saturday and they then get dealt with the following week. Fair play to them for not giving up, but they have done so with no honour at all and everything they have said has seemed to be just made up. They give off the impression they can blag this too like everything else. Sounds like they have nowhere else to hide now. Time to let actions speak for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=424&fid=203&sty=2&act=1&mid=2122865199 'Not seen that many since the cup final' !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 Lifted from a Skate forum, which rather means that they can't take the "easy" route of administration. According to this voluntary administration is not possible ""An administrator of a company may not be appointed under paragraph 22 if— (a) a petition for the winding up of the company has been presented and is not yet disposed of," page 324 of link...http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/insolvencyprofessionandlegislation/legislation/uk/insolvencyact.pdf Paragraph 22 deals with the fact that the directors or the company themselves cannot plaice the club into admin. This wouldn't preclude another creditor (and there are a few) forcing them in into admin. *and yes the typo was deliberate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 Southampton probably had at least two people interested in taking them over before admin. The PROCESS involved "saying that you are interested" and forwarding a "proof of funds" One of those was in all likelihood Helpmerhonda, the other was the mysterious Dubai based group that LLS, SaintLee & St David got all excited about some what 3 years ago now? Getting those expressions of interest therefore can be deemed to be a piece of cake. Making them HAPPEN or the buyers being REAL is another matter altogether! Notts County apparently provided a letter from an established source of finance stating that they were prepared to refinance the club. That was a good 2 or 3 weeks ago..... In those cases, NOTHING came (or has come) to a conclusion - in the case of County that means they have about the same amount of time as Portsmouth to complete. Again, for any NEW buyer, they will want to look at a number of issues What is the financial investment/liabilities/assets/business plan? Hence the Due Dilligence. From the simple maths and public domain information we have uncovered, this thread alone shows that the club is a pretty poor investment, especially in the current economic climate. Ashley will bite anyone's arm off to sell Newcastle for around 80 million with all it's branding passion and facilities and promotion likely. BUT the real problem for PCFC now are "the unknown unknowns". With the court having stated they believe the club is trading while insolvent, then UNTIL the court says "OK no it is not because you have new investment" then nobody can be sure that the authorities here will not start criminal proceedings. IF the new money shows that the club will NOT be insolvent going forwards, there still remains the FACT that the court believes it WAS trading while insolvent previously. Then you have the issue that "back dated penalties" may be applied, by the authorities AND most likely the football authorities. Certainly one of the bottom 3 in the PL (IF Pompey survive) could well have legal recourse to challenge the results obtained while being in breach of PL rules (another Tevez issue) and claim damages for relegation or demand a points deduction. They won't right now because they want to stay a part of the PL family, but the minute they look like losing their place at the trough because of this they will squeal and fight like hell. As an INVESTOR the only way to get your money BACK is to regain PL status, it will not be easy in the CCC, BUT if fines and extra points deductions COULD occur then the unknown unknowns will be the issue that kills them. Saints could not be sold for 20mil in the CCC. Portsmouth will need more than that and yet COULD have a minus 25 or more points for next season. Investment is about minimising RISK and maximising RETURN. The Judge made it far riskier. Even IF a new buyer sees something of value to them in taking on the club, I am pretty certain that they will want wait until the Financial Statement is prepared and accepted, so it all points to a frantic final 24 hours IMHO. Still, who knows, there MAy still be rich fools out there, after all a fool and his money are soon parted. Good luck with extraditing SBT & Al Mirage for financial misdemeanours though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 PFC must be really confident about these latest two interested parties as they have convinced the court to adjourn as well as give up any hope of hiding in administration. I think that they have gone "all in" by allowing the winding up order hearing to take place. I have a feeling that the question that will be asked next week will be why didn't we go into admin yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishy_Friend Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 My view is that we tried to chance our arm by saying there are 2 parties interested, and our crooks thought it would get ajourned longer than it did. I think that if we have no buyer by next week, Chanari will put his hand in his pocket and pay what the HRMC want. This is my view, although, i just want to go into Admin, fook these Crooks out and start fresh in the CCC with a stable footing. Well i can hope! See you saturday lads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowllyd Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 are the "they will be wound up/cease to exist/gone tomorrow/i guarantee it brigade still believing that Pompey are finished? I have said it numerous times on this thread, they will not be wound up, not cease to exist, the best we can hope for is admin in the next 7 days. HMRC had their chance today and let them off. Pompey will get out of this now, but hey, we always knew this would happen.... Sometimes I wonder if the desperation of our fans wanting to believe they will be wound up is as bad as the desperation of the skater boys believing an arab billionaire is waiting in the wings. You really are so wide of the mark there that you could be talking about a different football club altogether. Try reading what's been reported, starting here perhaps: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/portsmouth/article7021577.ece I doubt they'll get put into administration in the next seven days, though it may just happen. And right now, administration is the absolute best that they can hope for; the alternative is liquidation. When a judge says that she fears your firm is and has been trading insolvently, this means that you're in the shít right up to your neck (or maybe deeper). Pompey now have to show conclusively that they are and will continue to be solvent as a business - which they quite patently are not, and won't be unless someone arrives with a few hundred wheelbarrows of cash. The seven days given to produce a statement of affairs is not a let-off; more like a stay of execution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowllyd Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 Looking at all the figures regarding income and expenditure I cannot see how their business model was ever viable. They must have planned for continuous injections of cash for several seasons, and they would have also needed a new stadium and european football. So what suddenly changed? That's a very good point. As a comparison, with Leeds a few years back you could see how and where their calculations went down the pan - they'd budgeted for a higher level of success (and therefore income) than they subsequently achieved, having in the meantime paid out shedloads for players and then put them all onto leaseback arrangements. With Pompey it's a bit different. I can only assume that Storrie thought that Gaydamak would continue to pour money in (via loans or whatever) and budgeted accordingly. When that stream of money suddenly dried up the only hope was new money and plenty of it, which Storrie sought but never actually found. So now we're back to the same old stories about investment being around the corner, none of which is believed by HMRC or the court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 You really are so wide of the mark there that you could be talking about a different football club altogether. Try reading what's been reported, starting here perhaps: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/portsmouth/article7021577.ece I doubt they'll get put into administration in the next seven days, though it may just happen. And right now, administration is the absolute best that they can hope for; the alternative is liquidation. When a judge says that she fears your firm is and has been trading insolvently, this means that you're in the shít right up to your neck (or maybe deeper). Pompey now have to show conclusively that they are and will continue to be solvent as a business - which they quite patently are not, and won't be unless someone arrives with a few hundred wheelbarrows of cash. The seven days given to produce a statement of affairs is not a let-off; more like a stay of execution. Even with the wheelbarrow of cash, it will not save them. They have to prove they haven't been trading insolvent, since the petition was submitted to the court, and we know they can't prove that, as they didn't pay the players wages. They are so f00ked!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 My view is that we tried to chance our arm by saying there are 2 parties interested, and our crooks thought it would get ajourned longer than it did. I think that if we have no buyer by next week, Chanari will put his hand in his pocket and pay what the HRMC want. This is my view, although, i just want to go into Admin, fook these Crooks out and start fresh in the CCC with a stable footing. Well i can hope! See you saturday lads! Unfortunately that is no longer the option. Simply paying off one "old" bill is not what the Judge has ordered them to do. They must now show how they plan to pay EVERY day to day bill from now until the end of the season at the very least. PCFC have been losing money faster than RBS did for the past 5 years. So they have to show that INCOME will cover RUNNING COSTS moving forwards. IF no buyer is found then CHanrai MUST bankroll your monthly burn rate ad infinitum in a cast iron legally binding contract, until "Insh'allah" a buyer turns up. It will be about loans until you get a large lump of income. TV money is all but gone already in security for the loans made to date, players cannot be sold until May. The only real possible non-Chanrai source of funds will be the fans - get ready for a special promotion of 20% discount on Season Tickets for 2010/11 if you buy next week - only 1,500 quid a pop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowllyd Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 Even with the wheelbarrow of cash, it will not save them. They have to prove they haven't been trading insolvent, since the petition was submitted to the court, and we know they can't prove that, as they didn't pay the players wages. They are so f00ked!!!! Interesting point. I'm not sure what would happen if, for instance, a new owner/investor willing to part with the required millions actually showed up. If that were to happen (and I think we agree on its likelihood ) then they could settle everything outstanding and become solvent - but that wouldn't erase the time that they'd been trading insolvently. This is all hypothetical of course, as I really can't believe a new owner/investor is about to turn up - or at least not one with the required mix of wealth and stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTW Saint Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 Pompey in a rush to snap up Nonda http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/Pompey-in-a-rush-to.6062836.jp Despite being insolvent can still add more wages to the excessive payroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 There you go, Bletch. January 19th. I don't take cheques. We have a winner! The cash is in the post. Honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 This is all hypothetical of course, as I really can't believe a new owner/investor is about to turn up - or at least not one with the required mix of wealth and stupidity. You would suspect than anyone with the right mix of wealth and stupidity would have stopped being wealthy a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sussexsaint Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 Unfortunately that is no longer the option. Simply paying off one "old" bill is not what the Judge has ordered them to do. They must now show how they plan to pay EVERY day to day bill from now until the end of the season at the very least. Does that include servicing the loans ? Preesumably they will have to disclose all 60m + of their debt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 Unfortunately that is no longer the option. Simply paying off one "old" bill is not what the Judge has ordered them to do. They must now show how they plan to pay EVERY day to day bill from now until the end of the season at the very least. PCFC have been losing money faster than RBS did for the past 5 years. So they have to show that INCOME will cover RUNNING COSTS moving forwards. IF no buyer is found then CHanrai MUST bankroll your monthly burn rate ad infinitum in a cast iron legally binding contract, until "Insh'allah" a buyer turns up. It will be about loans until you get a large lump of income. TV money is all but gone already in security for the loans made to date, players cannot be sold until May. The only real possible non-Chanrai source of funds will be the fans - get ready for a special promotion of 20% discount on Season Tickets for 2010/11 if you buy next week - only 1,500 quid a pop Is this definitely out the hand of HMRC now then? i.e. that the current legal situation means they can no longer withdraw their winding up order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommi Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 You really are so wide of the mark there that you could be talking about a different football club altogether. Try reading what's been reported, starting here perhaps: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/portsmouth/article7021577.ece I doubt they'll get put into administration in the next seven days, though it may just happen. And right now, administration is the absolute best that they can hope for; the alternative is liquidation. When a judge says that she fears your firm is and has been trading insolvently, this means that you're in the shít right up to your neck (or maybe deeper). Pompey now have to show conclusively that they are and will continue to be solvent as a business - which they quite patently are not, and won't be unless someone arrives with a few hundred wheelbarrows of cash. The seven days given to produce a statement of affairs is not a let-off; more like a stay of execution. Ok, in part I take your point but with the greatest respect for the last week or so all the experts on here have been telling me that yesterday Pompey would be finished. Clearly, that is not the case as they are still trading today (be it illegally!) and they will be playing us on Saturday. So, I will continue to use my gut feeling and common sense approach to the situation - Pompey will not be wound up, they find a way out of this. Yesterday was defining - the case clearly stated they are trading insolvently yet they have been given more time to rescue the situation. That to me is clear signal there is a way out for them. Regards Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenevaSaint Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 They must now show how they plan to pay EVERY day to day bill from now until the end of the season at the very least. That was one of the original requests from the PL in regards to the lifting of the transfer embargo. Unfortunately the gutless tossers dropped it. An absolute travesty that they can sign players while Bournemouth and others have had to suffer no signings for 12+ months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 Is this definitely out the hand of HMRC now then? i.e. that the current legal situation means they can no longer withdraw their winding up order? 1) HMRC winding up petition. 2) United Kingdom Corporate Legislation. It is illegal (not worng) ILLEGAL ie criminal to Trade while insolvent 3) FAPL regulations. The comment by the Judge is very clear and specific she chose her words well and asked the club to prove that they have not been infringing points 2 & 3. Should a settlement with HMRC be reached, the club must still prove they are not breaking the law. It's their own fault for sleep walking into Court. IF they'd agreed a deal before then those statements would not have been made. Should HMRC get paid off, the matter can still be reported to the D.P.P./Fraud Squad etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTW Saint Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 Pompey's fall is also a dreadful day for billion pound Premier League http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/portsmouth/7207854/Pompeys-fall-is-also-a-dreadful-day-for-billion-pound-Premier-League.html "The make-up of the Portsmouth delegation illustrated the chaos at Fratton Park this season. Daniel Azougy, the Israeli lawyer with fraud convictions who until recently ran the club’s finances, was there, though he declined to say why, or if he still had an interest in the club. His presence did not seem to please Mark Jacob, the lawyer appointed to the club board by erstwhile absentee owner Ali Al Faraj. Jacob was the only director present, with chief executive Peter Storrie, himself facing charges of tax evasion, minding the shop at Fratton Park. Tania Robbins, the former finance director ejected from the board by the Faraj regime, was present, and her latest witness statement — the third she has given to the court — formed the basis of the evidence that earned the club their brief reprieve. Of new owner Balram Chainrai there was no sign, only a brief reference to his being a man of “financial substance” committed to selling the club to someone “who wants to operate the business as a football club”, though not apparently to settle its liabilities. " Why was Azougy present and is Tania Roberts Finance Manager or back on the board as a Director? Expect the Accountants are arriving at Fratton Park now to start work on the statement of affairs. Will they demand payment up front? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 Ok, in part I take your point but with the greatest respect for the last week or so all the experts on here have been telling me that yesterday Pompey would be finished. Clearly, that is not the case as they are still trading today (be it illegally!) and they will be playing us on Saturday. So, I will continue to use my gut feeling and common sense approach to the situation - Pompey will not be wound up, they find a way out of this. Yesterday was defining - the case clearly stated they are trading insolvently yet they have been given more time to rescue the situation. That to me is clear signal there is a way out for them. Regards Tommi To be fair I've read a great mix of opinions on here as to what would happen to Pompey. And what I've taken away from the expert, and lay commentators on here is that most appear to believe that PFC is mortally wounded. If they don't die now then even if they get cash, then either their debt and/or past sins will come back to bite them. The idea that they will "find a way out of this" will be of no comfort to them. They will either not exist or have a really **** few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenevaSaint Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 Ok, in part I take your point but with the greatest respect for the last week or so all the experts on here have been telling me that yesterday Pompey would be finished. Clearly, that is not the case as they are still trading today (be it illegally!) and they will be playing us on Saturday. So, I will continue to use my gut feeling and common sense approach to the situation - Pompey will not be wound up, they find a way out of this. Yesterday was defining - the case clearly stated they are trading insolvently yet they have been given more time to rescue the situation. That to me is clear signal there is a way out for them. I don't think most people on here really thought they would be wound up at the first hearing. It was an aspirational goal ! Seriously though, they've been given 7 days to prove they're not trading insolvently as far as I can tell from the papers and reporting of the case. And you know, if they do find massive investment in the next 7 days, fair play to them. Lee Dixon on MOTD last night, "where have these investors suddenly appeared from, where were they 1 or 2 months ago". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 Pompey's fall is also a dreadful day for billion pound Premier League http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/portsmouth/7207854/Pompeys-fall-is-also-a-dreadful-day-for-billion-pound-Premier-League.html "The make-up of the Portsmouth delegation illustrated the chaos at Fratton Park this season. Daniel Azougy, the Israeli lawyer with fraud convictions who until recently ran the club’s finances, was there, though he declined to say why, or if he still had an interest in the club. His presence did not seem to please Mark Jacob, the lawyer appointed to the club board by erstwhile absentee owner Ali Al Faraj. Jacob was the only director present, with chief executive Peter Storrie, himself facing charges of tax evasion, minding the shop at Fratton Park. Tania Robbins, the former finance director ejected from the board by the Faraj regime, was present, and her latest witness statement — the third she has given to the court — formed the basis of the evidence that earned the club their brief reprieve. Of new owner Balram Chainrai there was no sign, only a brief reference to his being a man of “financial substance” committed to selling the club to someone “who wants to operate the business as a football club”, though not apparently to settle its liabilities. " Why was Azougy present and is Tania Roberts Finance Manager or back on the board as a Director? Expect the Accountants are arriving at Fratton Park now to start work on the statement of affairs. Will they demand payment up front? Interesting. So she didn't resign but was forced off the board. And far from maybe being a whistle-blower as I had mused, she appears to be at the centre of the insolvency shenanigans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 decent simple summary http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/portsmouth/7207269/Portsmouth-QandA-what-will-happen-to-the-Premier-League-club.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 (edited) Ok, in part I take your point but with the greatest respect for the last week or so all the experts on here have been telling me that yesterday Pompey would be finished. Clearly, that is not the case as they are still trading today (be it illegally!) and they will be playing us on Saturday. So, I will continue to use my gut feeling and common sense approach to the situation - Pompey will not be wound up, they find a way out of this. Yesterday was defining - the case clearly stated they are trading insolvently yet they have been given more time to rescue the situation. That to me is clear signal there is a way out for them. Regards Tommi There were certainly a few eccentrics who were 'certain' Pompey would be wound up yesterday. The sensible majority have seen the probability of Pompey being wound up increase from about a 5% outside chance (last weekend), to the current situation, which I'd rate as about 75% likely that they will be liquidated next week. The outcome of the court case has significantly hastened their demise IMO. Edited 11 February, 2010 by Joensuu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/feb/10/portsmouth-court-what-ruling-means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 Interesting. So she didn't resign but was forced off the board. And far from maybe being a whistle-blower as I had mused, she appears to be at the centre of the insolvency shenanigans. I think she resigned when the fraudster started running things but I assume she was reinstated when Chainrai came riding into town? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrek Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 This is an article from the 6th, and might have been covered already, but did anyone else see that Tanya Robins was on the board of the failed business in Basingstoke? And that PFC were the guarantor? It appears that debt has been paid off now, but it's interesting nonetheless (apologies if already posted). http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1249103/Duke-Westminster-pushing-Portsmouth-edge.html?ITO=1490 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 (edited) http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/feb/10/portsmouth-court-what-ruling-means Think someone should point out their mistake as they appear to think one of the solutions for pompey is to pay off HMRC whereas if we believe Dubai Phil, (which obviously we always do ) then that is no longer an option. -- Have sent them an email asking they correct it! Edited 11 February, 2010 by pedg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 There were certainly a few eccentrics who were 'certain' Pompey would be wound up yesterday. The sensible majority have seen the probability of Pompey being wound up increase from about a 5% outside chance (last weekend), to the current situation, which I'd rate as about 75% likely that they will be liquidated next week. The outcome of the court case has significantly hastened their demise IMO. I'd hardly say I was eccentric:confused:. The pointers were all there for them to be wound up. The only thing that would of saved them, was to do a deal with HMRC. FACT, HMRC WANTED them wound up, the only reason they weren't, was that the Registrar, decided (because of jobs involved), that the club prove they were a going concern. That will be near on impossible to prove, so they will be wound up. Hardly an eccentric view, or are the QC's employed by HMRC...eccentric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draino76 Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 Good morning all; the post below from Pompey online gave me a spit out my coffee moment; 17 Drayton,why go into admin why does this help 11/02/2010 09:11:27 fight ! fight on the park fight the hmrc we can win both 39 points left and we need 20 of them doable expect us to end up on 42 points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 More story telling: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=740052&sec=england&cc=5739 Storrie told Soccernet: "The Revenue want £4.7m for the last two months PAYE. We have told them that we would willingly pay them that right now, but they are refusing, unless we also pay them the £7m plus VAT. Right, you would pay the 4.7M at the drop of a hat but could only come up with 1.8M when trying to negotiate with HMRC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 (edited) The way I see it, PFC (Storrie) has not understood it's predicament (unlikely) or is avoiding the real issue (probable). That route leads to disaster next time round in Court. This from the Grauniad article, quoting from Pompey' website: " "Portsmouth Football Club today welcomed the decision by the High Court to allow the club time to demonstrate its plans to restructure and stabilise the business under new owner Balram Chainrai," read a statement on the club's website. "The club was given seven days to produce a statement of affairs for the court and HMRC and this will be produced in conjunction with Vantis plc, a firm of accountancy and insolvency practitioners." What they actually have is time to provide to HMRC a Statement of Affairs which shows that, at this point in time, they are not insolvent (can meet their liabilities as they fall due), and will not be in the foreseeable future. That SoA must be accurate, truthful and independent of the usual PFC "spin". I'm sure that it won't have escaped HMRC, or their experts and Counsel, that Azougy has a track record of providing falsified documents to the Courts in Israel, or so it has been reported elsewhere(for the mods). Remember their Finance Director, Tanya Robbins, stepped down from the board weeks ago, and they haven't appointed (or can't appoint) a replacement. Reasons? Directors who knowingly allow a company to trade while insolvent are open to criminal charges, and can be held personally liable for it's debts. Who better to know whether a company is solvent or not than it's finance director? PFC seem to be preparing themselves to go back with documents which will show that with the very rich, but as yet unidentified, new owner in place the "business will be sustainable as a going concern" But without .....? In his interviews last night Storrie stated that Vantis has been appointed by the Judge. Does anybody know if that's actually true? I believe the judge has ordered PFC to provide the SoA. Where they get it from, or how they prepare it, is up to them, as long as it satisfies the necessary criteria. If it doesn't, I doubt the Judge will have any more patience. Storrie also continued to refer to Chainrai as the new owner. As do the club and the media. I still believe that Al-Mirage remains the legal owner, not Chainrai. Chainrai is like the rest of us, standing outside the fish tank looking in. He's just a lot more interested at what's going on inside than even we are. Pompey went to Court yesterday with the attitude that it doesn't matter whether we're insolvent now or not, which we deny of course, and it's none of your business anyway, because we won't be soon. We've already got a rich new owner and we'll have an even richer one any day now. That didn't wash. As I see it the Judge simply did the procedurally correct thing before pulling the plug. Their only way out is administration (if that's still possible, which I somehow doubt), or another new owner with 10's of millions to waste in place, and funds injected, in the next 10 days. Otherwise the Company will be wound up. There will always be a professional football club in Portsmouth. It won't be in the Premier League for a while, but hey, we know what that feels like, dont we? It's a supply and demand thing. But this Company, and the charletans associated with it, will have nothing to do with it. Edited 11 February, 2010 by hutch carelesness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 I'd hardly say I was eccentric:confused:. The pointers were all there for them to be wound up. The only thing that would of saved them, was to do a deal with HMRC. FACT, HMRC WANTED them wound up, the only reason they weren't, was that the Registrar, decided (because of jobs involved), that the club prove they were a going concern. That will be near on impossible to prove, so they will be wound up. Hardly an eccentric view, or are the QC's employed by HMRC...eccentric. i think you will find that I had stated that after speaking to a corporate lawyer sunday,, he said that the judge would appoint accountants to look at the clubs accounts. I think the short timescale would be a surprise to him though. I have always thought they'd get away with it, but now there is outside accountants in,I feel that much will come to light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Alert Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 If they found the cash to do a deal with HMRC would that mean they no longer had to go back to court next week? Or after the claim that they are insolvent does the judge want to look at the validity of that claim regardless of HMRC now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 11 February, 2010 Share Posted 11 February, 2010 If they found the cash to do a deal with HMRC would that mean they no longer had to go back to court next week? Or after the claim that they are insolvent does the judge want to look at the validity of that claim regardless of HMRC now? According to Dubai Phil on the previous page now they courts have decided they may be trading while insolvent having HMRC withdraw the WUO order will not stop justice being done. i.e. the latter option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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