Pompey Takeover Saga

[ericofarabia]

Are they dead yet?

 

Slighly Monty Pythonesqe.... Just waiting for the guy with the club!

 

LOL

 

From about 1 minute onwards ....You could imagine this conversation going on between Scudamore, The Tax Man and Peter Storrieteller later today

[Danish Saint]

LOL

 

From about 1 minute onwards ....You could imagine this conversation going on between Scudamore, The Tax Man and Peter Storrieteller later today

 

Storrie: I feel fine! Got a 1-1 against 9 men last night!

 

Scudamore: You're not fooling anyone!

 

Tax Man: You'll be stone dead in a moment!

 

[Gemmel]

The request for an adjourment, seems to be the most risky move yet and not taking the admin route, bizarre. Surely they are not that frightened with what administrators would find hidden in the books?

 

I don't think I ever thought for one minute that they would get wound up and closed, but the adjournment will be based on the likelyhood of new money being available within the 28 days or so that they allow. There is no TV revenue coming in, no player transfers and 15,000 home fans at hugely discounted rates (See pompey website) isn't going to cut it. Which means the only possible way out would be a takeover....in days not months.

 

That means whoever comes in, has to stump up 7.5 million to the tax man straight away and take on the liabilities of numerous other debts totalling over 50 milllion pounds. In addition to that the club continue to lose money, so they would need to plug the shortfall as well and that's without the complicated issues, with the ground and surrounding land. For good measure you could also throw into the mix the fact that they have no infrastructure or training facilities, are bottom of the premier league, more than likely to get relegated and face further points deductions in the future based on tax, financial irregularities etc etc....... oh and throw in another 4 milllion for dindane.

 

Finding a buyer who will take the debts on and buy the club for a pound is one thing, the above is a whole different ball game and storyteller will need to be on his best form to convince anybody let alone a court, that it is even remotely possible.

 

Having enjoyed this thread, like a good book from the start, with fours hours to go, I really think for the first time, it could be curtains for them.

 

We came close......I'm not sure whether it came as close as 240 minutes though.

[bridge too far]

Good article (as usual) from David Conn of the Guardian:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2010/feb/10/portsmouth-cardiff-hmrc-winding-up

[Micky]

Tick tock.

 

 

Today's master plan

 

Can we have some more time please?

 

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/09022010/63/pompey-seek-adjournment.html

 

Well now, THERE's a Surprise. I never saw THAT coming.

 

Keep it up chaps you can do it, May isn't THAT far away

 

 

hahahahahahahaha

 

Well I never would have thought it...!

 

Same site - but much better link:

 

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/09022010/63/saints-wembley.html

[hutch]

IMO there's still a possibility of admin this morning. The club can't come out officially and say "we're putting the club into administration" because they're not allowed to do that, are they?

 

I know little about English insolvency law, but I believe that the club itself (directors) can no longer put the club into administration. But a secured creditor can.

 

I believe that Chainrai is:

 

a) Not a director, and

b) A secured creditor

 

but he may be classed as a "shadow director".

 

Otherwise a huge gamble on the decision of Mrs. Registrar Derrett. (Can anybody check with the ticket office and see if she is on our database, with a purchase history?)(I had a case in the High Court in London a few years ago where the QC's on BOTH sides were Saints fans)

 

If they go to Court, they can only plead the "Notts. County" defence. They will need to convince the Judge that they have a serious buyer who INTENDS to buy the club AND pay off it's debts, in a very short space of time. Being "interested" won't do, and a text from the Saudi Ambassador to London saying "We'll get back to you" isn't good enough.

 

Mrs. Registrar Derrett has already shown her attitude to such pleas where the company is clearly "woefully insolvent". In the eyes of the law, it matters not the size of the club, the league it plays in or the size of it's debts.

Edited 10 February, 2010 by hutch

[dubai_phil]

The request for an adjourment, seems to be the most risky move yet and not taking the admin route, bizarre. Surely they are not that frightened with what administrators would find hidden in the books?

 

I don't think I ever thought for one minute that they would get wound up and closed, but the adjournment will be based on the likelyhood of new money being available within the 28 days or so that they allow. There is no TV revenue coming in, no player transfers and 15,000 home fans at hugely discounted rates (See pompey website) isn't going to cut it. Which means the only possible way out would be a takeover....in days not months.

 

That means whoever comes in, has to stump up 7.5 million to the tax man straight away and take on the liabilities of numerous other debts totalling over 50 milllion pounds. In addition to that the club continue to lose money, so they would need to plug the shortfall as well and that's without the complicated issues, with the ground and surrounding land. For good measure you could also throw into the mix the fact that they have no infrastructure or training facilities, are bottom of the premier league, more than likely to get relegated and face further points deductions in the future based on tax, financial irregularities etc etc....... oh and throw in another 4 milllion for dindane.

 

Finding a buyer who will take the debts on and buy the club for a pound is one thing, the above is a whole different ball game and storyteller will need to be on his best form to convince anybody let alone a court, that it is even remotely possible.

 

Having enjoyed this thread, like a good book from the start, with fours hours to go, I really think for the first time, it could be curtains for them.

 

We came close......I'm not sure whether it came as close as 240 minutes though.

 

Forgetting the asset value pre admin at SLH, there is a really useful comparison when seeking finance for a new take over at Nottarf.

 

Saints had 30mil of debt. BUT the bulk of that was secured by a long term mortgage, so the impact of the debt was around 4mil a year. Because it was secure and long term and from a professional financial institution, there was no "I want my money back" issue. Any buyer simply had to analyse the Income streams to see if they could afford the repayments.

 

Saints had equity that needed buying of around 20 to 30mil. This in reality was the headline cash outlay that a buyer would need to find.

 

All the accounts were in the public domain, love or hate Rupert, the systems and processes and compliance at the club were sound making due dilligence fairly simple.

 

So a cash outlay of at the most 30 mil for a CCC (at the time) club with excellent facilities and manageable long term debt.

 

The club had a monthly burn rate of around 250k of negative cash flow (from the published accounts) at the start of looking and around 350k at the end

 

When the process STARTED the club had parachute payments

 

At the time it started, the global economy was in the middle of the biggest easy money boom of all time with banks even prepared to lend penniless Saints fans the money to buy the club.

 

And yet in over 2 years of trying NOT ONE FIRM OFFER TO BUY THE CLUB WAS RECEIVED.

 

Now, down the road.

 

They appear to have 30 mil of short term debt most probably to former owners, it is not mortgaged, there is no secured managable 25 year payment plan built on income, and yet the debt means that the creditors own virtually every asset the club had.

 

They appear to have another mix of debt including HMRC and transfers that seems to come close to 15mil

 

They appear to have a monthly burn rate (based on not paying wages) of around 1.5 million

 

They have no assets, they have no incremental revenue stream, they do not have a Jacksons Farm or Staplewood with a paper asset value.

 

They are unable to strengthen the team and are all but a CCC team who would need around 20 million of investment to stay in the PL next season even IF they managed to stay up.

 

And all of this in a period when the global economy is in a liquidity crisis, where those with money can lend it to people (such as Palace) at 18%.

 

And yet their submission to court is that they will find a buyer within 28 days.

 

I just love perspective

 

:smt119

[hutch]

Are they dead yet?

 

Slighly Monty Pythonesqe.... Just waiting for the guy with the club!

So far this season they've had four guys with the club.

[Goalie66]

IMO there's still a possibility of admin this morning. The club can't come out officially and say "we're putting the club into administration" because they're not allowed to do that, are they?

 

I know little about English insolvency law, but I believe that the club itself (directors) can no longer put the club into administration. But a secured creditor can.

 

I believe that Chainrai is:

 

a) Not a director, and

b) A secured creditor

 

but he may be classed as a "shadow director".

 

Otherwise a huge gamble on the decision of Mrs. Registrar Derrett. (Can anybody check with the ticket office and see if she is on our database, with a purchase history?)(I had a case in the High Court in London a few years ago where the QC's on BOTH sides were Saints fans)

 

If they go to Court, they can only plead the "Notts. County" defence. They will need to convince the Judge that they have a serious buyer who INTENDS to buy the club AND pay off it's debts, in a very short space of time. Being "interested" won't do, and a text from the Saudi Ambassador to London saying "We'll get back to you" isn't good enough.

 

Mrs. Registrar Derrett has already shown her attitude to such pleas where the company is clearly "woefully insolvent". In the eyes of the law, it matters not the size of the club, the league it plays in or the size of it's debts.

 

I think he converted his debt to equity and therefore is not a creditor.

[Fowllyd]

...and from The News web site:

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/Pompey-head-for-High-Court.6057708.jp

 

Couple of snippets from that:

 

Pompey have indicated they will request for (sic) an adjournment, as they seek to appeal against their winding-up petition.

 

If that fails though, the petition will be heard with the club's future in the balance.

 

This suggests that the seeking of an adjournment is a separate process to the actual hearing of the petition. HMRC will, I'm sure, oppose this on the basis that Pompey are now serial defaulters when it comes to paying their tax bill.

 

Also, as mentioned here and elsewhere:

 

Pompey were thought to have offered to make a payment an immediate payment to HMRC in the region of £1.8m

 

Nice of them to offer that - but what of the rest? They have no means of paying it, plus the amount will be going up all the time if they continue to trade and as interest accrues on the debt. HMRC knows this, hence their refusal to play ball. Incidentally, I think that the £7.5M frequently quoted is wide of the mark, and the actual sum owed is considerably larger than that. Pompey's original appeal against the petition queried the £7.5M VAT, but this was part of an outstanding tax bill of around £11M, which is now likely to be higher still (unless, of course, I've got the numbers confused - which is quite possible).

 

Can anyone shed any light on that last bit? You could always argue that the precise figures are rapidly becoming an irrelevance though, I suppose!

[bridge too far]

Given the large amount of media coverage today about Pompey, Cardiff and Southend, I really think this is all going to explode.

 

Do you think HMRC will respond to the media pressure and decide to make an example of one 'big' club at last?

[saint si]

Other key points I'm sure will be considered...

 

Has the club done everything it can to bring in additional revenue? Answer: no, they only sold 2 players (plus williamson) in the transfer window

 

Have they done everything possible to improve their opex position? Answer: no, see above, plus they've signed a bunch of additional players.

 

Has the new owner brought in a fresh management team, doing what they can to put the past behind them? Answer: no, it's the same jokers in charge that got them in to this mess (storrie) or have been strutting about, making grand pronouncement and not actually sorting things out (Jacobs).

 

Have they made genuine attempts to pay the tax bill? Are they just a victim of difficult circumstances? Answer: no, they have been completely ignoring the issue for months now, hoping it would go away, or hoping to delay it with the most frivolous of arguments (boiling down to: we shouldn't have to pay this tax because we don't think we should have to pay it)

 

Is it relevant that they employ 600 staff? Answer: no, as they don't pay them anyway, it would be fairer to allow them to get on with seeking new jobs, and it would be better if those individuals' labour could be put to productive use that generates tax revenue for the state

[dubai_phil]

Jeez, in some ways I hope that HMRC & The Registrar haven't had a bad night.

 

English Soccer could lose 3 clubs today.

 

Although only one of them has been thick enough not to try and do something about it

[sussexsaint]

Do you think HMRC will respond to the media pressure and decide to make an example of one 'big' club at last?

 

Big club ? hmm

[Saint in Paradise]

I just have a tiny niggle in my head that the Court will give all 3 even more time. Fair enough I think

for Southend and Cardiff but not that lot down the M27 :mad:

 

 

Ah well I am off to bed now as I have to be up at 05.00 here ( 4.0 P.M. UK time )

so it's a bit like Christmas when I was a kid waking up early to see if Santa has been.

Edited 10 February, 2010 by Saint in Paradise

[bridge too far]

Big club ? hmm

 

That's why I put '....' round the word big

[sussexsaint]

Ah ok sorry mate - too early in the morning for me

 

Oh and in reply to our Fishy Friend - yes you should beat us - you are 2 leagues above us and frankly if I stole enough money I could put together a better team as well

[hutch]

I think he converted his debt to equity and therefore is not a creditor.

Most unlikely. He is on the record that he has no desire to own Pompey. And no businessman with an ounce of sense would convert secured debt to equity in a company which is facing administration at best, or liquidation.

 

Do you have a source?

[hutch]

Jeez, in some ways I hope that HMRC & The Registrar haven't had a bad night.

 

English Soccer could lose 3 clubs today.

 

Although only one of them has been thick enough not to try and do something about it

Including one in Wales.

[bridge too far]

Including one in Wales.

 

But playing in an English league

[Gingeletiss]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/feb/10/portsmouth-administration-avram-grant

 

And they are out of there

 

.....The Pompey manager, Avram Grant, who received a red card for approaching the referee to protest against a penalty decision, asked the high court to remember the unique role of a football club. "It's not a clear, normal business," he said. "It's not like an apartment that you buy without feelings. Here there are feelings, of players, fans, and also mine. The court needs to think it [also] belongs to 250,000 people. I think the club needs to stay alive – this is even more important than football."

 

 

Yeh right, 250 more like.....where were these fans last night??.

[pedg]

Most unlikely. He is on the record that he has no desire to own Pompey. And no businessman with an ounce of sense would convert secured debt to equity in a company which is facing administration at best, or liquidation.

 

Do you have a source?

 

A I understand it he had a loan secured against Al Mirages shares. When they defaulted he took the shares. So not a traditional debt to equity deal but at the start was the debt and now he owns the shares.

[Puddings and Monkeys]

Other key points I'm sure will be considered...

 

Has the club done everything it can to bring in additional revenue? Answer: no, they only sold 2 players (plus williamson) in the transfer window

 

Have they done everything possible to improve their opex position? Answer: no, see above, plus they've signed a bunch of additional players.

 

Has the new owner brought in a fresh management team, doing what they can to put the past behind them? Answer: no, it's the same jokers in charge that got them in to this mess (storrie) or have been strutting about, making grand pronouncement and not actually sorting things out (Jacobs).

 

Have they made genuine attempts to pay the tax bill? Are they just a victim of difficult circumstances? Answer: no, they have been completely ignoring the issue for months now, hoping it would go away, or hoping to delay it with the most frivolous of arguments (boiling down to: we shouldn't have to pay this tax because we don't think we should have to pay it)

 

Is it relevant that they employ 600 staff? Answer: no, as they don't pay them anyway, it would be fairer to allow them to get on with seeking new jobs, and it would be better if those individuals' labour could be put to productive use that generates tax revenue for the state

 

When you put it like that - they're ****ed!!

[angelman]

Cardiff will be ok. The council have let them sell some land and this and a supporters bond will cover things.

 

Not sure about Southend

 

Pompey belonging to 250k. Is he really trying to say that P'mouth is too big not to have a team and that it is part of society. If so maybe he should google biggest towns without a football club and he will see that Pompey come way down the list.

 

Admin would be good. Liquidation would be sad.

[Gingeletiss]

Good article (as usual) from David Conn of the Guardian:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2010/feb/10/portsmouth-cardiff-hmrc-winding-up

 

Indeed it is, and this extract below, is the main reason HMRC want blood!!

 

 

The priority given to football debts explains why the Premier League withheld Ports*mouth's £7m January TV payment and some of the £5m fee from selling Younes Kaboul to Tottenham, then used the money to pay other clubs, while Pompey's £7.5m tax and VAT bill was left unpaid.HMRC's tougher stance, hitting eight clubs with winding-up petitions this season, reflects deep frustration with the *historic trail of clubs going into administration and the football-*creditors rule. While all football debts have been paid in full for the clubs who have *continued in business, since 2003 HMRC has been left with about £30m of outstanding taxes unpaid. The tax debt is directly linked to overspending on *players; huge wages carry tax at 40%, which is deducted from pay packets but not passed on to HMRC by clubs which have plunged into difficulties.

[hutch]

I see where you're coming from, but IMO that's over-simplified, for the following reasons:

 

1. That is not the description which was quoted (by Conn) of the terms of the second registered security in January, which was over all of the assets.

 

2. He has stated that he will hold the shares "in trust". Implication being when the debt is settled Al-Mirage can have them back. (in the same way lawyers hold funds "in trust")

 

3. It is widely reported that he has a lien over FP. If he simply took the shares in settlement of the debt, then that would fall away.

 

I believe he took the shares for 3 reasons:

 

1. To irritate the incumbent owner(s)

 

2. To get some control over affairs, in an attempt to prevent "his" money from being diverted to HMRC and other clubs

 

3. To try to convince the Court that the club is now under new ownership

 

Without seeing the relevant documents, we don't really know. We're just guessing. But I would be staggered if Chainrai has given up his position as a secured creditor in exchange for the shares. If he's that stupid, then he's probably just the right guy to own Pompey.

Edited 10 February, 2010 by hutch

[pedg]

How many secured creditors are they likely to have who could put them into admin? They obviously provided security for the basingstoke shop rental and used the club and ground as security for the Chainrai loan but are there likely to be many others? Maybe their claim about not having a bank overdraft etc means that in fact their are few secured creditors who could put them into admin?

[saintbletch]

How many secured creditors are they likely to have who could put them into admin? They obviously provided security for the basingstoke shop rental and used the club and ground as security for the Chainrai loan but are there likely to be many others? Maybe their claim about not having a bank overdraft etc means that in fact their are few secured creditors who could put them into admin?

 

Is Sacha's cliam over the land around the ground security for the debt the club owes him? Could he put them into admin, assuming it was in his interest?

 

Or does he just own the land? The phrase I hear used is that he "controls" parcels of land around the club.

[saintbletch]

Good article (as usual) from David Conn of the Guardian:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2010/feb/10/portsmouth-cardiff-hmrc-winding-up

 

A good read.

 

Funnily enough I hadn't made the connection that both 2008 cup final teams had winding up orders being heard today.

 

They've both certainly materially benefited from living beyond their means.

[Daren W]

Indeed it is, and this extract below, is the main reason HMRC want blood!!

 

 

The priority given to football debts explains why the Premier League withheld Ports*mouth's £7m January TV payment and some of the £5m fee from selling Younes Kaboul to Tottenham, then used the money to pay other clubs, while Pompey's £7.5m tax and VAT bill was left unpaid.HMRC's tougher stance, hitting eight clubs with winding-up petitions this season, reflects deep frustration with the *historic trail of clubs going into administration and the football-*creditors rule. While all football debts have been paid in full for the clubs who have *continued in business, since 2003 HMRC has been left with about £30m of outstanding taxes unpaid. The tax debt is directly linked to overspending on *players; huge wages carry tax at 40%, which is deducted from pay packets but not passed on to HMRC by clubs which have plunged into difficulties.

 

What is still scary is they still live in a fantasy world...

This gem from Brendan Bone:

 

"However, Brendon Bone, of supporters' group SOS Pompey, told BBC Sport: "The talk about potential new buyers is all hearsay.

We are hearing nothing but noise about selling on the club from the new owner, but if he does sell it on we hope he sells it to a football man.

 

"If all else fails at Portsmouth, Fratton Park can only be used for football, and we'd hope the council will take it over as a community club.

Balram Chainrai, Chainrai (centre) is looking to sell the club quickly

"HMRC want to get their money, and if they wind up the club, they won't get it. I think there are pretty good chances of an adjournment. "

 

Fratton can't be pulled down and turned into flats? Customs can't get a slice of that?

 

A bit of perspective please... If HMRC see that they'd probably shut them down out of spite...

[greg_hill]

Storrie comes accross as a wheeler dealer ****ney wide boy. I bet HMRC have seen his type countless times before.

 

What really annoys me is the mix of platitudes and outright untruths (am I allowed to call him a liar?) he is spitting out.

 

Potential buyers? Really? How strange they came forward now and not several months ago. How convenient that all this talk just now could well buy you a 28 day reprieve.

 

I just hope HMRC have the professionalism to actually check the substance behind all that talk.

 

"The club belongs to the fans, etc. ,etc."

 

Yes it does. So why did you and your cronies mistreat it so badly?

[sidthesquid]

Originally Posted by The News

Pompey have indicated they will request for (sic) an adjournment, as they seek to appeal against their winding-up petition.

 

If that fails though, the petition will be heard with the club's future in the balance.

 

Why are they seeking to appeal against the winding-up petition? Are they still clinging to the belief that they can single-handedly change the VAT rules for the UK? Or is it just another stalling device? (Another month another £100K in Storrie's post-Parkhurst pension pot)

[sussexsaint]

tick...tick....tick..tick...

[pedg]

So as they have their scheduled slot at some point after 11:30 when is their appeal for adjournment likely to be heard? Will it be far enough in advance for them to go into admin if it fails or will it be heard seconds before their fate is pronounced on?

[Tractor_Saint]

tick...tick....tick..tick...

 

[Gingeletiss]

So as they have their scheduled slot at some point after 11:30 when is their appeal for adjournment likely to be heard? Will it be far enough in advance for them to go into admin if it fails or will it be heard seconds before their fate is pronounced on?

 

The only people who can help them on the adjournment side of things, are HMRC. They've had since October to seek adjournment, they've had since October to find new finance. they've had since last week for their 'new' owner to settle this tax bill (now around 15 mil). The paltry sum of 1.8 mil, is possibly the tax owed on their two January sales. Those moneys recieved (tax), should have gone to HMRC, they didn't...........

 

Bye Bye Poopy

[OldNick]

Originally Posted by The News

Pompey have indicated they will request for (sic) an adjournment, as they seek to appeal against their winding-up petition.

 

If that fails though, the petition will be heard with the club's future in the balance.

 

Why are they seeking to appeal against the winding-up petition? Are they still clinging to the belief that they can single-handedly change the VAT rules for the UK? Or is it just another stalling device? (Another month another £100K in Storrie's post-Parkhurst pension pot)

thats what I dont get. How can they now at this late moment ask for adjournment to compile a defence! (as stated in one of the snippets from the papers today) It shows a lack of respect/complacency that they would not need to do anything as they would walk over HMRC

[pedg]

So are pompey:

 

1) Bit time gamblers relying on hope that something will come up?

2) Confident that they have something up their sleeve to avoid being wound up?

3) So paranoid about what administrators will find out that they are determined to avoid it at all costs?

[dronskisaint]

Forgetting the asset value pre admin at SLH, there is a really useful comparison when seeking finance for a new take over at Nottarf.

 

Saints had 30mil of debt. BUT the bulk of that was secured by a long term mortgage, so the impact of the debt was around 4mil a year. Because it was secure and long term and from a professional financial institution, there was no "I want my money back" issue. Any buyer simply had to analyse the Income streams to see if they could afford the repayments.

 

Saints had equity that needed buying of around 20 to 30mil. This in reality was the headline cash outlay that a buyer would need to find.

 

All the accounts were in the public domain, love or hate Rupert, the systems and processes and compliance at the club were sound making due dilligence fairly simple.

 

So a cash outlay of at the most 30 mil for a CCC (at the time) club with excellent facilities and manageable long term debt.

 

The club had a monthly burn rate of around 250k of negative cash flow (from the published accounts) at the start of looking and around 350k at the end

 

When the process STARTED the club had parachute payments

 

At the time it started, the global economy was in the middle of the biggest easy money boom of all time with banks even prepared to lend penniless Saints fans the money to buy the club.

 

And yet in over 2 years of trying NOT ONE FIRM OFFER TO BUY THE CLUB WAS RECEIVED.

 

Now, down the road.

 

They appear to have 30 mil of short term debt most probably to former owners, it is not mortgaged, there is no secured managable 25 year payment plan built on income, and yet the debt means that the creditors own virtually every asset the club had.

 

They appear to have another mix of debt including HMRC and transfers that seems to come close to 15mil

 

They appear to have a monthly burn rate (based on not paying wages) of around 1.5 million

 

They have no assets, they have no incremental revenue stream, they do not have a Jacksons Farm or Staplewood with a paper asset value.

 

They are unable to strengthen the team and are all but a CCC team who would need around 20 million of investment to stay in the PL next season even IF they managed to stay up.

 

And all of this in a period when the global economy is in a liquidity crisis, where those with money can lend it to people (such as Palace) at 18%.

 

And yet their submission to court is that they will find a buyer within 28 days.

 

I just love perspective

 

:smt119

 

Excellent summary & perspective:smt038

[DS]

In my line of work we see alot of people who have got themselves into dire financial straits by living beyond their means.

 

This bunch of clueless chancers at Poopey are making some of them look like sound financial investors.

[sussexsaint]

thats what I dont get. How can they now at this late moment ask for adjournment to compile a defence! (as stated in one of the snippets from the papers today) It shows a lack of respect/complacency that they would not need to do anything as they would walk over HMRC

 

Ah , because in the last few days they have a NEW owner who has changed the situation massively, making new investment and monies far far more likely, honest guv

[benjii]

Given the large amount of media coverage today about Pompey, Cardiff and Southend, I really think this is all going to explode.

 

Do you think HMRC will respond to the media pressure and decide to make an example of one 'big' club at last?

 

I think they may well do and this part of the Guardian article is telling:

 

HMRC's tougher stance, hitting eight clubs with winding-up petitions this season, reflects deep frustration with the ­historic trail of clubs going into administration and the football-­creditors rule. While all football debts have been paid in full for the clubs who have ­continued in business, since 2003 HMRC has been left with about £30m of outstanding taxes unpaid. The tax debt is directly linked to overspending on ­players; huge wages carry tax at 40%, which is deducted from pay packets but not passed on to HMRC by clubs which have plunged into difficulties.

 

HMRC challenged the football-creditors rule in 2004, when Wimbledon went into administration after relegation from the Premier League, but lost; the court effectively decided that the Football League was entitled to set its own rules for its members.

 

An HMRC spokesman acknowledged this week that the rule still rankles. "We want to secure our fair share of any funds available when a debtor gets into difficulty. Just like any other creditor, we do indeed frown on any arrangements that seek to prevent that," he said. "We expect football clubs to be in line with other responsible businesses."

 

As I suggested yesterday, there is more to this from HMRC's perspective than simply getting as much money out of the Skates as possible.

 

If they don't go into admin I wouldn't be surprised if they are wound up.

 

Incidentally, how much of an odious creature is Peter Ridsdale?!

[pedg]

Ah , because in the last few days they have a NEW owner who has changed the situation massively, making new investment and monies far far more likely, honest guv

 

Yes they bought a list of email addresses of rich people off someone on the web and have emailed all of them so one must buy them mustn't they??

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

52 minutes and counting

[benjii]

A I understand it he had a loan secured against Al Mirages shares. When they defaulted he took the shares. So not a traditional debt to equity deal but at the start was the debt and now he owns the shares.

 

He exercised a charge over shares. The debt still exists and I suspect he still has a floating charge over all their undertaking therefore he could still press the "admin" button.

 

Doesn't look like he can be bothered though.

 

I believe I was right when I said Chanrai came in merely to have a look and see whether he had been:

 

a) Quite stupid;

b) Very stupid;

c) Hoodwinked.

 

I suspect he now believes it's a mixture of the above and frankly has had enough of it. Their small offerings to HMRC show he doesn't want to put any more of his own cash in.

[benjii]

52 minutes and counting

 

Half 11, I think?

[manji]

Some top companies in this list lol ! Todays winding up list. Pumpey in the "not before 11.30" lot just below World Class Stallions and Shaheen Knitwear !

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/list_companies_winding.htm

[Foxy]

 

Incidentally, how much of an odious creature is Peter Ridsdale?!

 

Indeed. so far as I can tell his one redeeming quality is consistency. You know what you're going to get if he takes over your club.

 

FFS did he learn nothing from the Leeds experience. I just hope he goes to Everton next.

 

Sticks in the craw that he'll have paid himself a handsome salary for wrecking another club, doesn't it?

[Hatch]

Some top companies in this list lol ! Todays winding up list. Pumpey in the "not before 11.30" lot just below World Class Stallions and Shaheen Knitwear !

 

 

What I used to be followed by what I am now.

[benjii]

Right, unfortunately I have to drag myself away from this now but I suspect I will be able to manage a sneaky look or two shortly after 11:30!