Pompey Takeover Saga

[OldNick]

You actually believe that?

If you look at what they have got at present it would be more than a match of most of the bottom teams.

David James Distin Krakjar and perhaps the new forward is a spine. They have Belhadj ? as well as a couple of combative midfielders. I know Nugent as yet has not cut it but against the low quality oppostion they will cope.I would like them cut down to size but also I am realistic to know staying up is easier than going up. Pompey have been jammy in the past and will be so again.

[Smirking_Saint]

True but we all know first hand the effect of boardroom unrest and future uncertainty has on the players ??

 

Don't get me wrong our squad was bad last season but i didn't expect us to go down TBH, i think the admin and complete farce that was board room and management coincided to make damn sure that happened, and fortunately that is the blueprint pompey seem to be taking on.

 

I i do hope they do a Derby, but worse

[Scudamore]

I do.

 

Assuming that this is the current squad: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portsmouth_fc#Current_squad

 

Then they a core of a team that should stay nup. Thye will be in a dogfight, but they blend of experience and new players should be OK to stay in hte Premiership when compared to the squads of teams like Hull, Stoke and Burnley.

 

Where's the goals?

 

Also they've had two top players taken out of what was a very good backline. And i can see Distin jumping ship as well.

 

And morale can't be great at the moment.

 

I really do believe they're pretty f::cked this season.

 

Not that i get all excited at that prospect like some others do. Just how i see it.

[Clapham Saint]

i suspect all their high value players will be gone.Pompey only have to stay up though and they will start with low overheads and big revenue.At present they do have a squad good enough to stay up, that is if they are motivated to do well of course.

Any offical figure for their s/t sales.Ho's 16k must be near if they had 12k already bought last week.lol

 

But therein lies their problem. Give it a couple of weeks and they won't have a squad capable of staying up. :cool:

[OldNick]

But therein lies their problem. Give it a couple of weeks and they won't have a squad capable of staying up. :cool:

Yep, but the facts as they are at present is they should stay up.

No news of the s/t sales, probably 35k and rising

[Clapham Saint]

Yep, but the facts as they are at present is they should stay up.

No news of the s/t sales, probably 35k and rising

 

The "facts" as I see them are that:

 

1) All other things being equal the squad as it stands could stay up.

2) There is insufficient funding to operate the Company (i.e. pay the overheads including wages).

 

Therefore either:

 

a) The current squad, capable of avoiding relegation remains. They run out of cash and are placed into administration. This results in a -9 point penalty and the administrator sells players in January. They then have -9 and from January onwards, no longer have the squad to avoid relegation.

 

b) They sell players to raise cash to avoid administration in the short term. From August onwards they no longer have the squad to avoid relegation.

 

IMHO they are deep in the brown stuff and will have to get very very lucky to stay up.

 

Even if they could keep all of their current squad and avoid administration (which I don't think they can) it would only take 2 or so injuries to leave them playing the youth team. They're knackered.

[OldNick]

The "facts" as I see them are that:

 

1) All other things being equal the squad as it stands could stay up.

2) There is insufficient funding to operate the Company (i.e. pay the overheads including wages).

 

Therefore either:

 

a) The current squad, capable of avoiding relegation remains. They run out of cash and are placed into administration. This results in a -9 point penalty and the administrator sells players in January. They then have -9 and from January onwards, no longer have the squad to avoid relegation.

 

b) They sell players to raise cash to avoid administration in the short term. From August onwards they no longer have the squad to avoid relegation.

 

IMHO they are deep in the brown stuff and will have to get very very lucky to stay up.

 

Even if they could keep all of their current squad and avoid administration (which I don't think they can) it would only take 2 or so injuries to leave them playing the youth team. They're knackered.

I think that is fair

[Corporate Ho]

Sorry Clapham but I think you're wrong in quite a few areas here. The media are reporting lots of stuff but they're sensationalising so much of it that it's worth quoting a few facts to reply to your post:

 

The "facts" as I see them are that:

 

1) All other things being equal the squad as it stands could stay up.

2) There is insufficient funding to operate the Company (i.e. pay the overheads including wages).

 

The wage bill has been trimmed so dramatically that we can afford it on an ongoing basis now. Losing the likes of Lauren, Djimi Traore, Glen Little, Pamarot and the other dead wood who barely played a game for us trimmed a reported £15m off our annual wage bill. Take away the other high earners who we've sold like Diarra (reported £70K a week) Defoe (£60K), Crouch (£70K) and Muntari (£60K) along with Sol leaving on a free (reportedly £80K a week +!!) and we're around £30m a year better off. The SKY money coming in, even allowing for a chunk of it to pay off Gaydamak means we can now afford what we're paying

 

Therefore either:

 

a) The current squad, capable of avoiding relegation remains. They run out of cash and are placed into administration. This results in a -9 point penalty and the administrator sells players in January. They then have -9 and from January onwards, no longer have the squad to avoid relegation.

 

See above.

 

b) They sell players to raise cash to avoid administration in the short term. From August onwards they no longer have the squad to avoid relegation.

 

Selling more players is obviously what could undermine us. Best to wait and see what happens. No-one's got a crystal ball.

 

IMHO they are deep in the brown stuff and will have to get very very lucky to stay up.

 

Even if they could keep all of their current squad and avoid administration (which I don't think they can) it would only take 2 or so injuries to leave them playing the youth team. They're knackered.

 

Once again, you seem to be guilty of believing what they've reported in the papers. The squad's not the strongest but should have enough about it to stay up. Obviously, if we sell Distin, James, Kranjcar etc the picture changes but you're talking about the squad as it stands. Which is:

GK: James, Ashdown, Niemi, Begovic

Def: Kaboul, Distin, Hreidarsson, Belhadj, Finnan, Wilson, Cranie. We're also reported to be close to signing Anthony Vanden Borre (Belgian defender) and John Mensah (another defender from Lyon).

MF: Kranjcar, Diop, Mokoena, Mullins, Hughes, Basinas. At least another one will come in with Olivier Thomert, a french attacking MF strongly linked (appreciate these aren't yet signed but they look likely).

Strikers: Piquionne, Nugent, Kanu, Utaka. A bit light here but at least another one will come in.

That's not the greatest squad in the world but I'd say that any of the promoted teams along with the likes of Hull, Stoke, Bolton and Wigan would be reasonably pleased with.

 

 

I think we'll struggle this year but if things stay as they are, with the couple of additions I mention above, I think we'd stay up. Things could change until the transfer window closes but as it stands, I reckjon we'll survive.

[FMPR]

POMPEY COMPLETE DEAL FOR BELGIAN INTERNATIONAL

Pompey have completed a deal to bring Belgian International defender Anthony Vanden Borre to Fratton Park.

 

The quay understands the 21 year-old has penned a year-long loan deal with a view to a permanent move next summer for €3m

 

The Blues won't be able to unveil the right-back, who can also play in midfield, until he returns from International duty later in the week.

 

Pompey are also said to be attempting to sign Rennes attacking midfielder Olivier Thomert.

[OldNick]

Sorry Clapham but I think you're wrong in quite a few areas here. The media are reporting lots of stuff but they're sensationalising so much of it that it's worth quoting a few facts to reply to your post:

 

 

 

I think we'll struggle this year but if things stay as they are, with the couple of additions I mention above, I think we'd stay up. Things could change until the transfer window closes but as it stands, I reckjon we'll survive.

If you keep that squad, I think you will stay up. You could lose a couple of players and still go into admin of course.If money is tight then the signings may not be made.It is not just a case of frees as you know there is a cost even to getting them.

It also depends on the players mindset because with a much stronger side last season you plummeted.You need them to be focused.Distin IMO is very much a mood player, James is the best keeper around but he does go in spells of woe, he is your savior if he keeps his form.

[Katalinic]

Sorry Clapham but I think you're wrong in quite a few areas here. The media are reporting lots of stuff but they're sensationalising so much of it that it's worth quoting a few facts to reply to your post:

 

 

 

I think we'll struggle this year but if things stay as they are, with the couple of additions I mention above, I think we'd stay up. Things could change until the transfer window closes but as it stands, I reckjon we'll survive.

 

Nothing to do with sensationalism - you need to read the accounts of Portsmouth City Football club and Miland Developments (which is in just a big a mess and part of the group) to get a true picture of where things were to begin with. I believe that they are much worse than you imagine - much higher initial debt than has been published in the papers. The Sky money and the reduction in wages are a step forward but a comparative drop in the ocean - you are not going to be, in my opinion, anywhere near "self sufficiency" yet...or likely to be I am afraid.

[Katalinic]

POMPEY COMPLETE DEAL FOR BELGIAN INTERNATIONAL

Pompey have completed a deal to bring Belgian International defender Anthony Vanden Borre to Fratton Park.

 

The quay understands the 21 year-old has penned a year-long loan deal with a view to a permanent move next summer for €3m

 

The Blues won't be able to unveil the right-back, who can also play in midfield, until he returns from International duty later in the week.

 

Pompey are also said to be attempting to sign Rennes attacking midfielder Olivier Thomert.

 

The loan deal has obviously happened, the permanent deal never will. You are going to have to rely on loans to try to paper the cracks and get through the season/stay up. If you do go into admin at least loan players can't be sold.

[OldNick]

POMPEY COMPLETE DEAL FOR BELGIAN INTERNATIONAL

Pompey have completed a deal to bring Belgian International defender Anthony Vanden Borre to Fratton Park.

 

The quay understands the 21 year-old has penned a year-long loan deal with a view to a permanent move next summer for €3m

 

The Blues won't be able to unveil the right-back, who can also play in midfield, until he returns from International duty later in the week.

 

Pompey are also said to be attempting to sign Rennes attacking midfielder Olivier Thomert.

The Quay understands, so a bit premature because I think the Quay also said the takeover had happened. All part of the give the fans hope while we are selling s/ts,all clubs cynically use these methods.I have not heard about Borre and so dont know if that is good or bad.Your forward did well saturday and Id never heard of him either

[FMPR]

Nothing to do with sensationalism - you need to read the accounts of Portsmouth City Football club and Miland Developments (which is in just a big a mess and part of the group) to get a true picture of where things were to begin with. I believe that they are much worse than you imagine - much higher initial debt than has been published in the papers. The Sky money and the reduction in wages are a step forward but a comparative drop in the ocean - you are not going to be, in my opinion, anywhere near "self sufficiency" yet...or likely to be I am afraid.

 

£27m left to pay. £17m of that is being paid off with our Sky payment due any day now. Leaves £10m Nugent to some mug hopefully for £4m, Belhadj or Utaka off somewhere else and bingo debt free.

[FMPR]

The Quay understands, so a bit premature because I think the Quay also said the takeover had happened. All part of the give the fans hope while we are selling s/ts,all clubs cynically use these methods.I have not heard about Borre and so dont know if that is good or bad.Your forward did well saturday and Id never heard of him either

 

Considering the Quay are now owned by PFC I doubt its premature (last post of the day)

[Katalinic]

£27m left to pay. £17m of that is being paid off with our Sky payment due any day now. Leaves £10m Nugent to some mug hopefully for £4m, Belhadj or Utaka off somewhere else and bingo debt free.

 

If it was that simple you would be laughing. It isn't.

[OldNick]

Considering the Quay are now owned by PFC I doubt its premature (last post of the day)

I had been told that Pompey were interested in buying astake n Quay.Fancy buying a radio station,something different.

That has now happened ?or was it PS and some others who did so? I was under the impression it wasn't PFC, but that was a few weeks ago andp erhaps he was just doing the preliminary groundwork.Considering the finances it is a strange investment at this stage.

 

they still reported the takeover and that was not 100% correct

[Katalinic]

I had been told that Pompey were interested in buying astake n Quay.Fancy buying a radio station,something different.

That has now happened ?or was it PS and some others who did so? I was under the impression it wasn't PFC, but that was a few weeks ago andp erhaps he was just doing the preliminary groundwork.Considering the finances it is a strange investment at this stage.

 

they still reported the takeover and that was not 100% correct

 

The Skates have bought a radio station? They'll be telling us their catering is the envy of the Premier League next.

[OldNick]

The Skates have bought a radio station? They'll be telling us their catering is the envy of the Premier League next.

Yep they do the best hedgehog burgers around apparently, just like their mama used to make

[PompeyLass]

I do.

 

Assuming that this is the current squad: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portsmouth_fc#Current_squad

 

Then they a core of a team that should stay nup. Thye will be in a dogfight, but they blend of experience and new players should be OK to stay in hte Premiership when compared to the squads of teams like Hull, Stoke and Burnley.

 

You been drinking ?

[Corporate Ho]

Nothing to do with sensationalism - you need to read the accounts of Portsmouth City Football club and Miland Developments (which is in just a big a mess and part of the group) to get a true picture of where things were to begin with. I believe that they are much worse than you imagine - much higher initial debt than has been published in the papers. The Sky money and the reduction in wages are a step forward but a comparative drop in the ocean - you are not going to be, in my opinion, anywhere near "self sufficiency" yet...or likely to be I am afraid.

 

The broadsheets are reporting that our debts in May 2008 were £44m and have been reduced considerably since then. Been widely quoted as having to pay £27m loan back to Standard Bank SA by the end of September - hence the sale of Crouch, Johnson etc not just to reduce the wage bill but pay back the monies owed.

 

Happy to review if you can post the accounts you speak of. But these are the "facts" as are being reported.

[View From The Top]

We all know Corp is never, ever wrong. Never has been and never will be.

 

His record about being right about the goings on at pfc is there for all to see.

 

Skates are fu cked. They know it and we know it, they just don't want to admit it.

[pfc123]

If you keep that squad, I think you will stay up. You could lose a couple of players and still go into admin of course.If money is tight then the signings may not be made.It is not just a case of frees as you know there is a cost even to getting them.

It also depends on the players mindset because with a much stronger side last season you plummeted.You need them to be focused.Distin IMO is very much a mood player, James is the best keeper around but he does go in spells of woe, he is your savior if he keeps his form.

 

Yep, agree with all of that. Distin in a good team plays very well, but I'm not so sure he'll cope so well if we do find we're being tanked on a fairly regular basis.

 

James is a key figure without doubt. If he stays his influence on and off the pitch will be crucial if we're going to survive this season...

[Katalinic]

The broadsheets are reporting that our debts in May 2008 were £44m and have been reduced considerably since then. Been widely quoted as having to pay £27m loan back to Standard Bank SA by the end of September - hence the sale of Crouch, Johnson etc not just to reduce the wage bill but pay back the monies owed.

 

Happy to review if you can post the accounts you speak of. But these are the "facts" as are being reported.

 

Can't post the whole accounts but in May 2008:

 

Portsmouth City FC had a negative net worth of £95 million (including liabilities of some £114.9 million)

 

Miland Developments 2004 had a negative net worth of £84.7 million (including liabilities of some £131 million)

 

Of course you need to offset the assets against these figures but the point I have been making is ref the starting point of your debt. I believe it was a lot bigger than was originally reported so not usre you have the assets to cover your liabilities - if Gaydemak is selling assets and taking the cash to cover his loans then the bank will be getting very twitchy as they will want their money first. The figures quoted in the press are simply the Bank Loans and Overdraft I believe.

 

If it is any consolation then Chelsea have bank loans and overdrafts totalling £500 million! If Abramovic ever pulls out or the banks call in the loans then...

[Clapham Saint]

Sorry Clapham but I think you're wrong in quite a few areas here. The media are reporting lots of stuff but they're sensationalising so much of it that it's worth quoting a few facts to reply to your post:

 

 

 

I think we'll struggle this year but if things stay as they are, with the couple of additions I mention above, I think we'd stay up. Things could change until the transfer window closes but as it stands, I reckjon we'll survive.

 

It does depend upon how much you have actually trimmed from the wage bill.

 

Reportedly (and I recognise that this is "reportedly" and so likely to be a little ott) you were losing £2m a month.

 

That is a LOT.

 

Have you really trimmed that much (or close given that it might be a little high) from the wage bill? You'll know better than I but I doubt it.

 

Secondly, don't forget that even profitable companys can go into administration. Cash flow is more important in your situation than profitability and if you don't have the CASH to pay your liabilities as they fall due you will be insolvent. Then the worst could happen.

 

I acknowledge that I (as a saints fan) probably lean towards the negative view of your chances but you are also biased the other way.

 

We'll have to wait and see, however players won't play for nothing until January just because that is when the next installment of sky money will arrive as it doesn't "even out over the year".

 

As there are no other significant funds coming in before the next sky istallment you need to have the vast majority of the cash in place NOW in order to be able to fund your overheads until January to survive.

 

I don't think that cash is currently in place.

 

I think if the cash were there then the deal would have been done by now and you would be under Dr. Al's ownership, whilst the takeover continues to drag the more and more sure I am.

 

You may disagree but we are both guessing.

 

Ramble over.

[Clapham Saint]

Once again, you seem to be guilty of believing what they've reported in the papers.

The broadsheets are reporting that our debts in May 2008 were £44m and have been reduced considerably since then. Been widely quoted as having to pay £27m loan back to Standard Bank SA by the end of September - hence the sale of Crouch, Johnson etc not just to reduce the wage bill but pay back the monies owed.

 

 

.....

[Clapham Saint]

Can't post the whole accounts but in May 2008:

 

Portsmouth City FC had a negative net worth of £95 million (including liabilities of some £114.9 million)

 

Miland Developments 2004 had a negative net worth of £84.7 million (including liabilities of some £131 million)

 

Of course you need to offset the assets against these figures but the point I have been making is ref the starting point of your debt. I believe it was a lot bigger than was originally reported so not usre you have the assets to cover your liabilities - if Gaydemak is selling assets and taking the cash to cover his loans then the bank will be getting very twitchy as they will want their money first. The figures quoted in the press are simply the Bank Loans and Overdraft I believe.

 

If it is any consolation then Chelsea have bank loans and overdrafts totalling £500 million! If Abramovic ever pulls out or the banks call in the loans then...

 

Not it it's the NET worth you don't.

[Katalinic]

Not it it's the NET worth you don't.

 

I meant against the liabilities, badly phrased, typed too quickly. I still think the papers are only looking at PCCF and not Miland Developments 2004 which are in a worse state and part of the group.

[Clapham Saint]

I meant against the liabilities, badly phrased, typed too quickly. I still think the papers are only looking at PCCF and not Miland Developments 2004 which are in a worse state and part of the group.

 

Fair enough.

 

In the accounts...

 

If you go to the notes to the Balance sheet do they have a net debt statement? (probably towards the end).

 

Failing that what are the totals of the Bank debt figures in the current and long term liabilities?

[KK the 2nd]

Ladbrokes and Corals suspended their relegation markets today on the basis the club may go in admin.

Relegation is now as short as 13/8 with Paddy Power.

Even that may be value if they get points deducted.

[Katalinic]

In the latest amusing delusion down at Fratton, the skates have signed a deal with Portsmouth Mercedes as apparently "Portsmouth Football club enjoys a strong demographic fit with the brand's target audience, with a very high percentage of ABC1 fans supporting the club".

 

Lol - the funniest thing I have ever read, bet Westwood can't wait to pick up his new E-Class.

Edited 12 August, 2009 by Katalinic

[Paul Chuckle]

The broadsheets are reporting that our debts in May 2008 were £44m and have been reduced considerably since then. Been widely quoted as having to pay £27m loan back to Standard Bank SA by the end of September - hence the sale of Crouch, Johnson etc not just to reduce the wage bill but pay back the monies owed.

 

Happy to review if you can post the accounts you speak of. But these are the "facts" as are being reported.

 

But you didn't get all the money for Crouch Sale, or Johnson sale, or Diarra sale as you owed so much money still on the players when you purchased them hence the no spending spree after these sakes.

 

Didn't you owe Liverpool 8 Million on Crouch deal hence Liverpool not having to pay as much for Johnson and you probably owed Chelsea some money for Johnson and i'm sure they also had a sell on claus like all of the above players.

[Saint in Paradise]

In the latest amusing delusion down at Fratton, the skates have signed a deal with Portsmouth Mercedes as apparently "Portsmouth Football club enjoys a strong demographic fit with the brand's target audience, with a very high percentage of ABC1 fans supporting the club".

 

Lol - the funniest thing I have ever read, bet Westwood can't wait to pick up his new E-Class.

 

Don't you mean a "Vito" van ?? or "A" class car :D:D

[miserableoldgit]

Don't you mean a "Vito" van ?? or "A" class car :D:D

Reliant Robin

[daveygwyatt]

Pompey now 7/5 with paddy power to go down and 6/4 with willhills glad I got on at 4/1!!!

[Pancake]

You been drinking ?

 

Probably.

[Pancake]

In the latest amusing delusion down at Fratton, the skates have signed a deal with Portsmouth Mercedes as apparently "Portsmouth Football club enjoys a strong demographic fit with the brand's target audience, with a very high percentage of ABC1 fans supporting the club".

 

Merc do caravans now?

[Clapham Saint]

Pompey now 7/5 with paddy power to go down and 6/4 with willhills glad I got on at 4/1!!!

 

I must have been a bit behind you as didn't manage 4/

 

I signed up with 365 and have £10 on them being relegated at 3/1 £10 and on them coming bottom at 11/1.

 

Got a "free" £10 bet for signing up and put it on Fulham to beat them on Saturday. Can't remember what the odds were but over 2/1 so if that comes in I've covered the other stakes already...

[miserableoldgit]

Pompey now 7/5 with paddy power to go down and 6/4 with willhills glad I got on at 4/1!!!

I would imagine that Skates being relegated would be bad enough for most of their fans but Saints fans making money out of it would really rub it in!

[Saintleigh]

The latest from the blog re PFC/Hydra

 

http://dralfahim.blogspot.com/2009/08/history-repeating-at-portsmouth.html

[Gingeletiss]

The latest from the blog re PFC/Hydra

 

http://dralfahim.blogspot.com/2009/08/history-repeating-at-portsmouth.html

 

2 comments at the end............and still the suckers believe, reminds me of me and Pinnacle;)

[Clapham Saint]

2 comments at the end............and still the suckers believe, reminds me of me and Pinnacle;)

 

Exactly what I thought.

[miserableoldgit]

Unless something extraordinary happens in the next 24 hours, tomorrow nights Solent Poopey Forum could be interesting!

[daveygwyatt]

forgot to add, my favourite bet, manager to get 34/1 on saints to go up and pompey to come down.. tough ask for saints but not impossible.... happy days and quids in if that comes off!!!

[Clapham Saint]

Unless something extraordinary happens in the next 24 hours, tomorrow nights Solent Poopey Forum could be interesting!

 

Would he really go through with that?

 

Balls of steel if he does.

[miserableoldgit]

Would he really go through with that?

 

Balls of steel if he does.

Perhaps Doctor Who will be "too busy with the take-over" to attend!

[skintsaint]

Would he really go through with that?

 

Balls of steel if he does.

 

He will postpone it claming lack of people turning up/claiming the free tickets.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Would he really go through with that?

 

Balls of steel if he does.

 

I think he's sending his own P.A. A Mr Fiasco? If his Mum let's him stay out late.

[Ponty]

It's disappointing that over a month later the thread title still hasn't come to fruition.

[Gingeletiss]

Ponty.........does that mean you now have you executive finger over the on/off switch???