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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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exit2

exit2

Posted
Posted

I honestly think they will go under, they can not and have not run as a viable business for months now. The long list of creditors is getting longer and longer every day, and the whole ownership thing is a mess. Like said above I cant see matey throwing any more money at it knowing he will not get a return and to be honest he wont.

 

He is only owed £17m, if you pay £7.5 to the HMRC you are increasing your "loan" by nearly 50%, added to that other debts ie Sol Campbell, and wages you are nealry doubling it!

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Faz

Faz

Posted
Posted
I honestly think they will go under, they can not and have not run as a viable business for months now. The long list of creditors is getting longer and longer every day, and the whole ownership thing is a mess. Like said above I cant see matey throwing any more money at it knowing he will not get a return and to be honest he wont.

 

He is only owed £17m, if you pay £7.5 to the HMRC you are increasing your "loan" by nearly 50%, added to that other debts ie Sol Campbell, and wages you are nealry doubling it!

 

As I said earlier £17m, plus HMRC is probably £10m by now, plus "Football Debts" £25m, plus £3m per month for the next 5 months, Plus Gheydamacks millions. Whoever buys them needs to take responsibility for £95m of debts. For a Championship Club.

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Saint Keith

Saint Keith

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Posted
As I said earlier £17m, plus HMRC is probably £10m by now, plus "Football Debts" £25m, plus £3m per month for the next 5 months, Plus Gheydamacks millions. Whoever buys them needs to take responsibility for £95m of debts. For a Championship Club.

 

youd surely buy newcastle instead if you were that daft

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

That article says he is willing to make an offer, BUT doesn't make any mention of the taxman recieving one let alone accepting it.

 

I thought Chanrai initially loaned £18.5M and then a wage bill payment which plus the interest (Palace were borrowing at 18%) must make his debt £25M already, meaning he would personally want at least £30M payback if he sold.

With many other debts and costs the club is starting to get very expensive.

 

 

If HMRC do accept a new payment plan from him, the Pompey debt would just increase making them less attractive to a buyer.

 

They need donations not loans.

 

Even with a payoff tomorrow I see no progress beyond postponing implosion for another few weeks.

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Saint Keith

Saint Keith

Posted
Posted
SSN saying talks between them and HMRC will continue tomorrow.

 

something along the lines of this i should think

 

Storrie "we'll give you £0.5m now and you stop the petition"

 

HMRC "Nope, wrong answer, try again"

 

Storrie "we'll give you £1m now and you stop the petition"

 

HMRC "Nope, wrong answer, try again"

 

Storrie "we'll give you £2m now and you stop the petition"

 

HMRC "Nope, wrong answer, try again"

 

Storrie "we'll give you £3m now and you stop the petition"

 

HMRC "Nope, wrong answer, try again"

 

Storrie "hmm, wait there, i better make a few more phone calls"

 

HMRC "thats ok, we're not going anywhere"

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Channon's Sideburns

Channon's Sideburns

Posted
Posted
Surely it's in HRMC's interest to force the club into admin, at least then they know someone is going to be trying to recoup their cash.

 

I doubt they will accept a penny less than what they are owed.

 

I have a feeling all of this meeting lark is all a p1ss in the mississippi.

 

Tomorrow, after entering Admin, Storrie and Jacobs can declare they 'did everything they could'. Then disappear for the truth to come out much later.

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Chin Strain

Chin Strain

Posted
Posted
Surely it's in HRMC's interest to force the club into admin, at least then they know someone is going to be trying to recoup their cash.

 

I doubt they will accept a penny less than what they are owed.

 

How though? Nothing left to sell, especially if Chanrai gets the ground. Liquidation ensures that the problem doesn't get bigger.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
Radio 5 keep announcing Pompey are "close" to a deal. I wonder what the source of this is though! Doubt it's coming from HMRC so you have to wonder how genuine it is.

 

 

 

Quite. They are essentially reporting the fact that Storrie has been on the phone to the BBC hacks making sure it sounds like he's doing lots and lots and lots for his beloved club.

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aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted
How though? Nothing left to sell, especially if Chanrai gets the ground. Liquidation ensures that the problem doesn't get bigger.

 

They must be able to loan out enough players to survive to the end of the season, then they will have the parachutes and maybe flog a few players.

 

I suppose their problem is they have donkeys like Utaka on 80k a week, impossible to loan or sell. They couldn't even give James away.

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Goalie66

Goalie66

Posted
Posted
Radio 5 keep announcing Pompey are "close" to a deal. I wonder what the source of this is though! Doubt it's coming from HMRC so you have to wonder how genuine it is.

 

Tomorrow could be fun anyway!

 

Just wander how HMRC work until 9pm ? I suspect their Lawyers are a simple instruction....Pay up Pompey Pompey pay up

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St Marco

St Marco

Posted
Posted

I still think they are fooked regardless of what their execs have been saying.

 

The point here which they seem to be forgetting is that they are acting as if it is a court hearing where they will be told to pay what they owe.

 

That time has gone, it was months ago.

 

The harsh reality is only 2 scenarios can happen now to save them

 

1. They strike a deal with the HMRC which would have to include a vast amount of the money owed being paid instantly and the rest paid in frequent installments. So for example if the bill is £7.5m such as Portsmouth claim then they pay say £4m up front tomorrow and the other £3.5m over the next few weeks. They will not settle on a deal where Portsmouth pay a few hundred grand a month for the next 50 years etc, that is not going to happen. Either way this scenario means someone has to put money into it, again unlikely to happen.

 

2. The club come clean and admit the total fook up they have made over the years and ask for them to be placed in admin. If they cannot do that then the creditors can apply for that to happen. Once in admin the court case stops and they get the points deduction.

 

So as someone else mentioned pretty much this is the scenario for the current owner. He has already got £17m in the clubs debts. Does he put in another £4m-£7.5m to starve off the court case for now and keep the club going for at least a few more weeks? But could then get put into admin at the next slightest payment due date i.e wages. Meaning he would lose potentially £21m-£24.5m in total. He has already said he will not put any money in.

 

The why they have not gone into admin theory.

Because the momment they do every single one of them loses out. The gravey train stops for the likes of Storrie. The owner loses everything. He will hold out to the last possible momment to do that because for him that is the worst case scenario. Make no mistake about it, he could not give a **** about the club, the fans etc.. he cares about his huge amount of money put into it. The momment they are in admin, gone and nothing he can do about it.

 

Right now the HMRC are itching to take a Premiership club down. If it was a big club then i doubt very much they would be as hostile as they appear to be being. But a club like Portsmouth fits the bill. A smallish club living way beyond it's means. They will want to send a message out to English football that you are the same as everyone else and if you don't keep your finances in check or miss payments then you will go the same way. If Portsmouth go under we would notice, their fans would notice, but ultimatly in a year or two everyone would of forgotten about them. It is the Wimbledon effect.

So the question is how much do the taxman see this as a moral thing? Are they taking their stance because they think it is time to set an example? A lot of the papers such as the times think this and i tend to agree. The judge in the case will be in there reading how much money little Portsmouth squandered over the past few years and how they ended up in the situation, i cannot see anyone feeling sorry for them in there.

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Weston Saint

Weston Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)

Assuming they owe HMRC £7.5m I would, as a negotiator, be offering a payment of £1.5m now and stage payments thereafter pointing out to HMRC advisors that if the club was wound up or placed into Administration, as an unsecured creditor, they would be lucky to recoup 10%. Bearing in mind the tax owed is public money it would not be in the best public interest to take that action. I suspect such a deal would cause the winding up order to be withdrawn, particularly if other parties to the order have been paid up or similar deals struck.

 

Problem for Portsmouth is the the financial issues will not go away unless significant cash is injected long term.

Edited by Weston Saint
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St Marco

St Marco

Posted
Posted (edited)

This whole payment thing comes from The Telegraph. Everyone basically followed the story. They say

 

"The Daily Telegraph said Chainrai was ready to offer HMRC a financial settlement rather than appealing for more time to contest the winding-up order"

 

But having a look on their website that report seems to have gone. Can anyone else find it?

 

EDIT:

This must be it

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/portsmouth/7190308/Portsmouth-seek-stay-of-execution-against--winding-up-order.html

Edited by St Marco
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St Marco

St Marco

Posted
Posted

So then that report from The Telegraph which was published today at 8pm has magically vanished from the website. Can't see it on the front page, can't see it in the sports section, can't see it on the football section. The only way you can find it is by going to the Portsmouth section on the website. Which is slightly funny because their piece from earlier today about Portsmouth having a 5th owner today is on the front page.....

 

Which would lead me to think they probably are not to confident in it.

 

From that report we get very little information. But we get these lines

 

"Chainrai is ready to offer HMRC a financial settlement rather than appealing for more time to contest the winding-up order. A host of other companies that joined the winding-up order have already been paid off by the club, simplifying the process. It is not clear whether Chainrai has injected fresh funds or the proceeds from the transfer-window sales of Younis Kaboul and Begovic have been diverted.

 

Club sources have indicated that there are at least two interested parties, and there is growing confidence that one may be in a position to begin conducting due diligence."

 

I wonder who that club source could be? Sounds familliar?

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Channon's Sideburns

Channon's Sideburns

Posted
Posted
So then that report from The Telegraph which was published today at 8pm has magically vanished from the website. Can't see it on the front page, can't see it in the sports section, can't see it on the football section. The only way you can find it is by going to the Portsmouth section on the website. Which is slightly funny because their piece from earlier today about Portsmouth having a 5th owner today is on the front page.....

 

Which would lead me to think they probably are not to confident in it.

 

From that report we get very little information. But we get these lines

 

"Chainrai is ready to offer HMRC a financial settlement rather than appealing for more time to contest the winding-up order. A host of other companies that joined the winding-up order have already been paid off by the club, simplifying the process. It is not clear whether Chainrai has injected fresh funds or the proceeds from the transfer-window sales of Younis Kaboul and Begovic have been diverted.

 

Club sources have indicated that there are at least two interested parties, and there is growing confidence that one may be in a position to begin conducting due diligence."

 

I wonder who that club source could be? Sounds familliar?

 

So, we already knew that the other involved was Grosvenor - so they've managed to pay off a maximum of £90k.

 

Not quite £7.5M is it?

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St Marco

St Marco

Posted
Posted

Exactly.

And what makes it sound bull**** to me is this line

 

"It is not clear whether Chainrai has injected fresh funds or the proceeds from the transfer-window sales of Younis Kaboul and Begovic have been diverted"

 

If you were talking with the club as they claim then would they not have asked that question? Would the person talking to them (obviously Jacobs) not have said yeah he has put some more money in or it has come from the player sales?

 

It does not make sense because if the report was true and Chainrai had put his own money in he would want people to know he had because it would make him have a better image for it.

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St Marco

St Marco

Posted
Posted

 

yeah as i said above you have to go to Portsmouth's section to find it. You would think it would be front page right? At least at same level as "Portsmouth set for 5th owner" which is on front page.

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PES

PES

Posted
Posted

Whats that coming over the hill?......SHABANI NONDA, SHABANI NONDA! (According to The Daily Hate) And his mate Erik Edmund could also sign on.

Ok, fingers crossed for a good week for Pompey, Tomorrow warm up for Saturday by beating Sunderland (again), Weds sort out Her Majesty's Crew before the main event on Saturday when we put your rabble well and truelly in your place. Then we can focus back on Joining the 'Real' football league. Things are looking up, PUP! :)

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Draino76

Draino76

Posted
Posted
Whats that coming over the hill?......SHABANI NONDA, SHABANI NONDA! (According to The Daily Hate) And his mate Erik Edmund could also sign on.

Ok, fingers crossed for a good week for Pompey, Tomorrow warm up for Saturday by beating Sunderland (again), Weds sort out Her Majesty's Crew before the main event on Saturday when we put your rabble well and truelly in your place. Then we can our focus back on Joining the 'Real' football league. Things are looking up, PUP! :)

 

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyyyyy! Good luck with that. LMAO.

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NickG

NickG

Posted
Posted
Whats that coming over the hill?......SHABANI NONDA, SHABANI NONDA! (According to The Daily Hate) And his mate Erik Edmund could also sign on.

Ok, fingers crossed for a good week for Pompey, Tomorrow warm up for Saturday by beating Sunderland (again), Weds sort out Her Majesty's Crew before the main event on Saturday when we put your rabble well and truelly in your place. Then we can focus back on Joining the 'Real' football league. Things are looking up, PUP! :)

 

victory against Sunderland, HMRC and us maybe a good week but its won't divert from the now inevitable decline over next couple of years

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St Marco

St Marco

Posted
Posted

Have to say if they accept that offer then i would be shocked. That is like saying were pay you 10% of what we owe you today and then the rest later on.

 

Personally i hope it happens as i want to go to the derby game and i think we would lose out by not having a rival anymore.

 

But this whole saga has gone on for months and months now. The whole thing needs to be brought to it's conclusion. Like a film everyone wants to know how it will end.

 

Heart says they will accept it, but head say's they will want a lot more.

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted

Nothing much new in any of those press articles that hasn't been discussd on here, except for the gem that the skates are Portsmouth's 2nd largest employer with 600 over half of whom are part-time.

 

So obviously the council isn't very big then, and nice spin chaps.

 

My feelings - everything makes sense, HMRC would listen to the arguments and in normal circumstances would likely adjourn leaving the sword of Damocles hanging over them.

 

However, they did that before and they got ignored.

 

You can take the p1ss once, you can likely take it twice, but trying the same trick a third time? Needs a new angle if it's going to work

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Saint Paul C

Saint Paul C

Posted
Posted
Nothing much new in any of those press articles that hasn't been discussd on here, except for the gem that the skates are Portsmouth's 2nd largest employer with 600 over half of whom are part-time.

 

Also conveniently ignoring the 1100 or so people that work at IBM in PartSmurf and all those employed at the RN dockyards etc..

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted (edited)
Also conveniently ignoring the 1100 or so people that work at IBM in PartSmurf and all those employed at the RN dockyards etc..

 

And all the related MOD type supply companies, Hampshire Police, National Health, or on the web....

 

Current members include FPT Industries, VT Group, Hampshire Constabulary, HM Revenue and Customs, Ministry of Defence, Portsmouth Housing Association, Warings Construction Group, The Listening Company and IBM.

 

Or possibly the P&O operation....

 

Or of course he NOW refers only to The City, in which case he is ignoring their catchment area, and so he now states that their operation is really only of interest to a far smaller audience. Must be nice to be a few member in Havant and to be ignored

 

Still, when did PCFC ever let the facts get in the way of a statement to the press :D

Edited by dubai_phil
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Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted

 

Do the papers in fact, know anything. They say 'new owner Chainrai is locked in talks', correct me if I'm wrong, he has not as yet, passed the PL F & PPT, and until that happens, will not be reconised by said body, as the new owner. This is still a smoke and mirrors exercise IMHO, and hope that HMRC do not fall for this bullsh!t, the way some fans have.

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
Could this '1.8m', be the leavings from last weeks outgoing transfers??, have they in fact, recovered the little brown bags from behind the chairmans desk, in which to make this alledged offer. If so, then it's not really an injection of new money!!!!.

 

Was there not a quote at the time that the PL had already forwarded the remainder to HMRC? That came to about 1.8M I believe (remember posting the calculation of such).

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Joensuu

Joensuu

Posted
Posted

 

The discussions can't be going all that well if Storrie feels he has to appeal to public sympathy. Chainrai's role of muddying the waters is also made very clear.

 

£1.8 million is not enough. The company could easily have raised the full £7.5 million had it sold more players. That's what any other company would have needed to do. Pompey have had ample opportunity.

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