Pompey Takeover Saga

[Foxstone]

Yes....but they lied, the investors were a not as real as they made out, and with Poopys history!!!!!!!!!!

 

It might not help either that Story Boy is part of their management/negotiating team, and he has been charged with evasion of taxes to none other than HMRC !

 

No chance of a character reference there methinks

[Channon's Sideburns]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/portsmouth/article7019273.ece

 

Storrie conveniently forgets when he slags off the press about 'sticking the knife in all season'.....

 

It's the same press he coveted when he led Al Fahim onto the pitch.

 

If he was that 'dedicated' to the cause, surely he would have set an example to the players by taking a temporary reduction in salary?

[GenevaSaint]

They were able to prove that there were genuine investors in talks though...

 

In which case they're fecked then Steve!

[Gemmel]

In which case they're fecked then Steve!

 

Now now Geneva, they are being bought by a prince.....

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Saudi-Prince-in-talks-over.6050292.jp

[Clapham Saint]

The most realistic outcome on Wednesday, IMHO, is that, if it goes to Court, they will be liquidated.

 

The real question is will it get to Court on Wednesday. I'd say it's unlikely.

 

IMO if it gets as far as the court, agreed, they will be liquidated.

 

The logical thing to do in that case is to place the Company into administration (will need to be done by one of the secured creditors).

 

But this has been the case for some time. Why didn't Chanari (sp?) put them into admin BEFORE the end of the transfer window when an administrator could have sought to raise some funds?

 

To have missed that opportunity was either a mistake, or is it possible that his "takeover" is just an attempt to stall the court decision? An attempt which I think should and will be brushed asside.

Edited 8 February, 2010 by Clapham Saint

[hamster]

If they do cease to exist by Saturday, the game could still go ahead. We'd just have to play it as a friendly.

[Hatch]

Would we really get a bye if they couldn't play the game?

[hamster]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/portsmouth/article7019273.ece

 

I like this bit by PS

 

""If the Revenue wind this club up, they will get nothing and that cannot be the right answer."

 

Yeah right Peter, whereas if PCFC continues to trade the Taxman will simply incur a bigger UNPAID debt.

[Matthew Le God]

Would we really get a bye if they couldn't play the game?

 

Of course Saints would.

 

What else do you think could happen?

[SNOWY]

IMO if it gets as far as the court, agreed, they will be liquidated.

 

The logical thing to do in that case is to place the Company into administration (will need to be done by one of the secured creditors).

 

But this has been the case for some time. Why didn't Chanari (sp?) put them into admin BEFORE the end of the transfer window when an administrator could have sought to raise some funds?

 

To have missed that opportunity was either a mistake, or is it possible that his "takeover" is just an attempt to stall the court decision? An attempt which I think should and will be brushed asside.

As I understand it the ground and the club are owned seperately by Chanari? If he has no interest in owning a football club then liquidation may suit him? What has he got to lose.

[Clapham Saint]

I like this bit by PS

 

""If the Revenue wind this club up, they will get nothing and that cannot be the right answer."

 

Yeah right Peter, whereas if PCFC continues to trade the Taxman will simply incur a bigger UNPAID debt.

 

If the club is wound up and even one of the players moves to another club as a free agent then HMRC will get what is due from that new contract.

 

They aren't currently getting anything whilst Poopey continue to trade.

[Clapham Saint]

As I understand it the ground and the club are owned seperately by Chanari? If he has no interest in owning a football club then liquidation may suit him? What has he got to lose.

 

Does he actually own the ground though?

 

Having security doesn't automatically mean that you can take ownership. It would give you priority over other creditors when an administrator/liquidator sold the asset.

 

That said there was apparently a specific clause allowing him to take over the business so who knows...

[dronskisaint]

But the question for me is this - if the value of their assets is less than the value of their debts, how can they go into Admin?

 

Not only that, but what have Poopey got to sell? Players? Can't do that.

 

So, how does an Administrator pay the wages at the end of the month?

 

Basically having assets worth less than your debts & zero cash is the definition of insolvent...'Promised money' (i.e Sky payments, gate receipts, PL money etc) is why they've been trying to spin it out but now that money has been accounted for, pledged to all & sundry, allocated against debts that they can't get near to satisfying.

 

Administration buys them time to make deals on how many pence in the pound creditors will accept, raise new investment etc...all a pretty forlorn hope but increasingly looking like their only one:D

[Goalie66]

Would we really get a bye if they couldn't play the game?

 

Yep

[dronskisaint]

I think Pompey have been busy shredding a lot of paperwork recently..

 

The club shop is now raising money selling hamster bedding!

[ringwood]

Security yes, but if the ground was sold for a sum greater than the debt secured against it, unlikely I know but the additional funds would go to the club/administrator unless of course his was a 150% mortgage against FP and the club.

The club at this point would appear to only be worth the value of the office furniture and the contents of the stationary cupboard assuming they were paid for.

 

Wonder if like when we moved from The Dell there will be an auction of parts of the ground? if so what would you buy and what would you use it for ?

[ART]

Security yes, but if the ground was sold for a sum greater than the debt secured against it, unlikely I know but the additional funds would go to the club/administrator unless of course his was a 150% mortgage against FP and the club.

The club at this point would appear to only be worth the value of the office furniture and the contents of the stationary cupboard assuming they were paid for.

 

Wonder if like when we moved from The Dell there will be an auction of parts of the ground? if so what would you buy and what would you use it for ?

 

The answer to that is simple mate. ......................RUST

[Gemmel]

I wouldn't be surprised if administrators have been in talks and refused to take them on. People have mentioned that we were turned dwon, prior to being taken on by BT.

 

No one really knows the real level of debt, but the operating costs are fairly significant, that they would need to realise any of the 3 bits below

 

They have 3 main streams of revenue.

 

1) Sky money - Looks like they will lose that but they will get 30 million over two years of parachute payments

 

2) Ticket revenue

 

3) Player sales (window not open yet)

 

Additionally they are likely to suffer points deductions, which could be as high as minus 30, so if they do find an administrator who will take them own and assuming it takes 3 months, they will need to find 6 million + just to kept trading, then someone who will pay around 5 million for the club, which may or may not come with a ground (IF Chainrai holds onto it), will still continue to lose money each month and a very real chance they could get relagated again next season.

 

That's a big ask from any administrator

[rallyboy]

it's taken a few of us 230 pages but I reckon a couple of you have just thrown a shaft of sunlight onto a good theory that might make sense of some of the madness....listen up and consider this as a purely fictional version of events that couldn't possibly be true.....concentrate....

 

The whole Chanrai legal case against the arms dealer was a sham supported by dodgy contracts agreed between the two.

They created backdated paperwork that would lead the unsuspecting court to the obvious conclusion of awarding a massive payout against Gaydamak - the only scenario that could release money from those frozen accounts.

 

Chanrai then whacked 'his' payout of those unfrozen funds, into a vehicle that Gaydamak knew he could utilise for further laundering, and to pay off agreed fees to his partner for the 'unfreezing' work.

All they needed was a mystery figure at the helm taking the pressure as they quietly removed those funds from said company - enter arab answer to Lord Lucan stage left.

And if anyone found out and tried to halt it? 'There's £500K, look the other way', or the buck stops at the top, and how can you charge an owner who doesn't exist?

 

Chanrai makes a few quid, looks like a big businessman who has generously assisted the club, gets some shares in a Sky TV cash generator/laundering business, and Gaydamak regains access to a huge chunk of his money that otherwise would be out of his reach.

And when the fun and games fizzle out they end up owning adjoining pieces of land for a development project.

 

This of course is a ludicrous story borne out of watching too many Bond films and no one would believe it to be true, though it oddly ticks most boxes.

 

 

Everyone's a winner.

 

 

Well, nearly everyone.

[Goalie66]

I wouldn't be surprised if administrators have been in talks and refused to take them on. People have mentioned that we were turned dwon, prior to being taken on by BT.

 

No one really knows the real level of debt, but the operating costs are fairly significant, that they would need to realise any of the 3 bits below

 

They have 3 main streams of revenue.

 

1) Sky money - Looks like they will lose that but they will get 30 million over two years of parachute payments

 

2) Ticket revenue

 

3) Player sales (window not open yet)

 

Additionally they are likely to suffer points deductions, which could be as high as minus 30, so if they do find an administrator who will take them own and assuming it takes 3 months, they will need to find 6 million + just to kept trading, then someone who will pay around 5 million for the club, which may or may not come with a ground (IF Chainrai holds onto it), will still continue to lose money each month and a very real chance they could get relagated again next season.

 

That's a big ask from any administrator

 

So that only leaves the roll of the dice Wednesday or to totally mix my metaphors the cards are somehat stacked against them.. Bye bye to them and Bye for us on Saturday then.

[Whitey Grandad]

Would we really get a bye if they couldn't play the game?

That's what it said in the Sunday paper (either Mail or Times). They also gave the resulting Premier table if they went into administration (-9 points) or were wound up (results expunged)

[Channon's Sideburns]

That's what it said in the Sunday paper (either Mail or Times). They also gave the resulting Premier table if they went into administration (-9 points) or were wound up (results expunged)

 

In some ways the fallout of Pompey being liquidated would be terrible.

 

What on earth will W******d do with all those tattoos?

[Joensuu]

Rumours on skate board that club trying to get rid of their youth team on the sly:

 

heard today that the club have offered to pay up contracts for some if not all of the youth /under 18 team.As in we will give you X to buy out your contract or you can stay if you want or stay if you must but we don't want (can't afford) you.

 

http://www.pompeyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55539

[pedg]

In some ways the fallout of Pompey being liquidated would be terrible.

 

What on earth will W******d do with all those tattoos?

 

Add lots of AFC's?

[bridge too far]

Add lots of AFC's?

 

Is there room?

[pedg]

Is there room?

 

Put them off to the side somewhere and add arrows as to where they should go? Not that I want to think about that any more really as do want to feel well enough to eat this evening!

[Goalie66]

In some ways the fallout of Pompey being liquidated would be terrible.

 

What on earth will W******d do with all those tattoos?

 

They would move his picture from an Art Gallery to a museum...Footbal Hall of Shame !!!

[Clapham Saint]

it's taken a few of us 230 pages but I reckon a couple of you have just thrown a shaft of sunlight onto a good theory that might make sense of some of the madness....listen up and consider this as a purely fictional version of events that couldn't possibly be true.....concentrate....

 

The whole Chanrai legal case against the arms dealer was a sham supported by dodgy contracts agreed between the two.

They created backdated paperwork that would lead the unsuspecting court to the obvious conclusion of awarding a massive payout against Gaydamak - the only scenario that could release money from those frozen accounts.

 

Chanrai then whacked 'his' payout of those unfrozen funds, into a vehicle that Gaydamak knew he could utilise for further laundering, and to pay off agreed fees to his partner for the 'unfreezing' work.

All they needed was a mystery figure at the helm taking the pressure as they quietly removed those funds from said company - enter arab answer to Lord Lucan stage left.

And if anyone found out and tried to halt it? 'There's £500K, look the other way', or the buck stops at the top, and how can you charge an owner who doesn't exist?

 

Chanrai makes a few quid, looks like a big businessman who has generously assisted the club, gets some shares in a Sky TV cash generator/laundering business, and Gaydamak regains access to a huge chunk of his money that otherwise would be out of his reach.

And when the fun and games fizzle out they end up owning adjoining pieces of land for a development project.

 

This of course is a ludicrous story borne out of watching too many Bond films and no one would believe it to be true, though it oddly ticks most boxes.

 

 

Everyone's a winner.

 

 

Well, nearly everyone.

 

Clearly a bit far fetched. :smt119

 

Of course in this fictional scenario Chanrai would also get a huge kick back from the government of wherever his company is registered.

 

Assuming his company is profitable and pays tax on that profit, having to write off £17m would significantly reduce the tax it has to pay!

 

(I have no idea if the income from the lawsuit would be fully taxable wherever the company is located but I'd be amazed if there wasn't a sneaky way around it)

[Channon's Sideburns]

According to Solent (more after 5pm) -

 

Gaydamak is causing problems concerning the land around the ground, complaining about the monies he is owed.

 

Seriously, he wasn't bothered last week.

 

More stalling....wait for tomorrow... 'Pompey announce there is dissention in the ownership'...

 

Or that health announcement I was on about.

[sotonjoe]

I don't get it. If the Hong Kong guy is genuine, won't he just stump up the HMRC money on Weds if the only alternative offered is liquidation?

[Channon's Sideburns]

Update from Solent....

 

Apparently the land is worth £10-15M if used as stadium redevelopment, Sacha now willing to do a deal on the land, if they do a deal on the debt he is owed.

 

Confusicus say...they try to play for time but Susan Boyle is gargling.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

In some ways the fallout of Pompey being liquidated would be terrible.

 

What on earth will W******d do with all those tattoos?

 

There are some in Southampton who would willingly remove them for him. Unfortunately they are not laser specialists, the salt bath afterward might also hurt.

[Winchester Red]

Update from Solent....

 

Apparently the land is worth £10-15M if used as stadium redevelopment, Sacha now willing to do a deal on the land, if they do a deal on the debt he is owed.

 

Confusicus say...they try to play for time but Susan Boyle is gargling.

 

I'm not sure I understand what difference this makes to anything...

[FarehamRed]

So how did the appeal go today? Was there one??

[angelman]

Sacha wants to get something out of it. Liquidation = loss of £28m. Administration = loss of nearly as much. He takes the ground off the books, becomes the landlord of Pompey, and he writes off some/all his debt.

 

Chainrai won't like that cos he has sweet FA to make any money on.

 

Can't see it happening and I guess Gaydamak knows the end is nigh.

[Saints foreva]

So how did the appeal go today? Was there one??

 

Sky Sports News just said they're in negotiations with hmrc.

[Channon's Sideburns]

I'm not sure I understand what difference this makes to anything...

 

TBH I feel this either:

 

a) Gaydamak trying to sell the land quick and get some return now, making the Poopey package look better to investors;

 

b) An attempt to muddy the waters, and give PFC a stronger argument for an adjournment. Judging by the fact this has only been released in the press this afternoon could mean all has not gone well with HMRC.

[bridge too far]

Sacha wants to get something out of it. Liquidation = loss of £28m. Administration = loss of nearly as much. He takes the ground off the books, becomes the landlord of Pompey, and he writes off some/all his debt.

 

Chainrai won't like that cos he has sweet FA to make any money on.

 

Can't see it happening and I guess Gaydamak knows the end is nigh.

 

He's not very good at this business malarky, is he

 

This must be about the third company of his that's gone t**s up! I bet his dad's well p*ssed off with bailing him out time and time again.

 

Or is something sinister going on? Surely not! :shock:

[St Marco]

So apparently they are now in talks direct with tax and revenue to come up with a deal.

Which leads me to think the appeal to the court if indeed there really was one failed. (although most news sources say it was today)

The only chance they have now is for the taxman to agree to a deal but without any money up front i can't see that happening.

 

As i said in my earlier post the best thing they can do now is cut the bull**** out and start telling the truth. Say how much debt there really is, say who is interested if anyone is at all etc etc. The whole mystery behind the finances just makes it seem less appealing to the ML type people out there.

[maxi_sopez]

been reading a lot of this dont really understand most of it, odds on there being a game on saturday please?

[Saints foreva]

been reading a lot of this dont really understand most of it, odds on there being a game on saturday please?

 

The game WILL go ahead on Saturday.

 

I can't see Pompey being in wound up on Wednesday or put into admin before.

[Joensuu]

been reading a lot of this dont really understand most of it, odds on there being a game on saturday please?

 

About 95% likely I'd say.

 

45% Pompey enter admin tomorrow (game on)

30% Pompey cut a deal with HMRC tomorrow (game on)

15% Court rules against Pompey, gives them 28 days to pay up (game on)

5% Court rules in favor of Pompey (game on)

5% Court rules against Pompey, puts them straight into liquidation (no game).

[warsash saint]

You just know they will squirm their way out of it & come up smelling of roses !!

[Winchester Red]

You just know they will squirm their way out of it & come up smelling of roses !!

 

They might squirm their way out of it but they'll still come up smelling of fish!

 

[St Marco]

The game WILL go ahead on Saturday.

 

I can't see Pompey being in wound up on Wednesday or put into admin before.

 

Then you must not see very well

 

The court case on weds is not them appearing and a judge going "you naughty naughty boys, you have not paid your taxes, please pay by the end of the year!".

 

The court case is the last case a company will have. The case is real, it is set for weds and has been so for months. They had the 1st appeal against the case rejected 3 weeks ago. Meaning they WILL have to go to court to face this charge. It is not the same as missing a payment and waiting a few more days to pay it. It is not like dealing with some dodgy person, it is dealing with the law. One that is not bendable and one that has a long list of company deaths to its name. Portsmouth will not be the 1st football club to be shut down.

 

I would love to know how you think they will dodge this?

 

As i said before. If i was a betting man i would bet they will be in administration before weds unless they find some rich guy who will pay the money.

[mcjwills]

If they do get liquidated and in a few years time we get back and retain our position in the Premiership, will all the children that never knew about the skates in the future, start supporting their local premiership team, it will really grate in the mouths of the Skates that their children or grandchildren will grow up being saints fans, the colour of red will spread across the map

[Under Weststand]

Storry teller has just been quoted on Sky news that they need a new owner or they will not be able to pay their debt. I really don't see HMRC who have been screwed over by football for many a year, being extremely helpful in this matter. They want to lay the law down & send a message out to football clubs all over the country. If there is no chance of them getting their money in the near future, then why let them continue to get further into debt. They are INSOLVENT!

[JRM]

 

I would love to know how you think they will dodge this?

 

As i said before. If i was a betting man i would bet they will be in administration before weds unless they find some rich guy who will pay the money.

 

But as Clapham said above, only a secured creditor can play them into admin now, is there a list of who these secured creditors are ?

[alehouseboys]

If they do get liquidated on Wednesday, are the Blue-Few gonna smash their town up?

 

We need to know. Corpy?

[hamster]

Who actually has to appear on behalf on PCFC on Wednesday?

 

Does the legal owner/owners have to attend, their accountants etc or will it just be a legal team?