Pompey Takeover Saga

[pedg]

That can't be true, Storrieteller hasn't resigned yet!

 

I believe they have had to resort to using white envelopes stained with the aid of some old tea bags.

[ART]

So why is Mark Jacob's still issuing statements in the club's name? Surely Chainrai has ousted Al Mirage's lawyer?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5hvQiJStZBsaqJJw17VCTouX1_iYQ

 

If you recall in our own situation, Crouchie and McMenemy amongst others were constantly issuing misinformation in the face of our chairman and former investor whom I shall refrain from using their names.

 

Let us not forget, that we fast approach the Ides of March, so both us Saints and our beloved neighbours;) ought to be watching their backs.

[Joensuu]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/frattonlatest/Options-running-out-for-Pompey.6051891.jp

 

Superb article, with great quotes:

 

the club's best option looked like doing an out-of-court deal with main creditor the Inland Revenue before walking into court.

 

To do otherwise meant the decision could go either way and the judge could opt to wind up the club. 'It's like asking if I flip a coin in the air is it going to land on heads or tails? It could be either.

 

'If they're going for an adjournment without having done a deal with the Inland Revenue then I don't understand their logic.

 

'That isn't to say it won't happen because football isn't logical.

 

'But not having done a deal the Revenue could insist on winding up to teach a public lesson to football clubs that someone's got to be made an example of, and that they don't mess around any more.

 

'If that happens, Portsmouth ceases to exist.

 

'The three potential options are this: firstly, ask for an adjournment and do a deal first. The second is to ask, even if they haven't done a deal.

 

The third is that they go into administration.

 

As a measure of how fraught things are at the minute, at the time of going to print the club are even late in filing a copy of their accounts at Companies House, the register of UK firms.

 

All firms are required to do this, and missing the deadline has already earned the club a £150 fine, a penalty which is due to increase the longer they delay filing them

[Gemmel]

Chainrai owns the ground and the land right?

If the club goes into liquidation, can he still keep these? I am assumming yes, as that was the terms of his loan.

 

So may be HMRC winding up the club, gives him hassle free ownership of the land and he's not the bad guy who folded the club.

 

It's not going to get near the 17 million he is owed, but the other option is to throw good money after bad with no guarantees, he will get anything back at all.

 

If he is in bed with gadamak, it's damage limitation, if they are the enemies they want us to believe then Chainrai has the ultimate hummiliation over him...... The man that bust his toy.

[Gingeletiss]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/frattonlatest/Options-running-out-for-Pompey.6051891.jp

 

I've been saying this for ages!!!!

 

 

.....With Mandaric, Redknapp and Storrie under suspicion of 'tax irregularities', why would HMRC do a deal with the club?

If the above are under suspicion, would it not be fair to say that the whole club, by association, is under suspicion, potentially of deliberate tax evasion or false accounting?

The recent involvement of a convicted fraudster will have done little to convince HMRC that they are dealing with a club full to bursting with integrity.....

[View From The Top]

I thought they were in court today having the appeal heard?

 

I'm wrong aren't I.

[bridge too far]

Chainrai owns the ground and the land right?

If the club goes into liquidation, can he still keep these? I am assumming yes, as that was the terms of his loan.

 

So may be HMRC winding up the club, gives him hassle free ownership of the land and he's not the bad guy who folded the club.

 

It's not going to get near the 17 million he is owed, but the other option is to throw good money after bad with no guarantees, he will get anything back at all.

 

If he is in bed with gadamak, it's damage limitation, if they are the enemies they want us to believe then Chainrai has the ultimate hummiliation over him...... The man that bust his toy.

 

He owns the club now, surely? If that's the case, he's responsible for all the club's debts I would have thought :smt102

[Saint Keith]

lungs, without doubt that is the greatest post of all time :smt109:smt041

[Chin Strain]

Chainrai owns the ground and the land right?

If the club goes into liquidation, can he still keep these? I am assumming yes, as that was the terms of his loan.

 

So may be HMRC winding up the club, gives him hassle free ownership of the land and he's not the bad guy who folded the club.

 

It's not going to get near the 17 million he is owed, but the other option is to throw good money after bad with no guarantees, he will get anything back at all.

 

If he is in bed with gadamak, it's damage limitation, if they are the enemies they want us to believe then Chainrai has the ultimate hummiliation over him...... The man that bust his toy.

 

I'd agree with pretty much all of this. I can't see how he's going to get a buyer in 3 days. I certainly can't see him throwing good money after bad. Ultimately, I think HMRC will say 'you're the owner, you've got personal wealth, you pay the bills. You take the risk you can't find a buyer, not us.'

 

According to a lot of reports this weekend, he's already had a substantial amount of his loan paid back. I'm not sure how, but maybe something to do with the player sales and any cash that may be due from other clubs for players Pompey have already sold (though I suspect they have been so desperate for cash that they were cash up front, reduced price deals).

 

I still think that the land that Gaydamak has got around the ground will form part of the bigger picture, especially as Chainrai is owed $23m by Arkadi as a result of him successfully suing Arkadi last year.

[saintbletch]

lungs, without doubt that is the greatest post of all time :smt109:smt041

 

Very good indeed!

[benjii]

He owns the club now, surely? If that's the case, he's responsible for all the club's debts I would have thought :smt102

 

No, owning a company doesn't make you liable for its debts.

[Joensuu]

I still think that the land that Gaydamak has got around the ground will form part of the bigger picture, especially as Chainrai is owed $23m by Arkadi as a result of him successfully suing Arkadi last year.

 

I didn't think Chainrai was still owed anything - wasn't the amount won following the court case released from Arkady's frozen bank account?

 

I'm sure the land around the ground will have some value though. A property developer might pay 10m for both the stadium and surrounding land... so Chainrai might be abel to re-coop some of his loan?

[bridge too far]

No, owning a company doesn't make you liable for its debts.

 

Sorry I didn't express myself properly.

 

What I should have said was that the company that Chainrai owns is responsible for its debts.

 

It's a limited company so shareholders aren't personally liable.

[stevegrant]

Sorry I didn't express myself properly.

 

What I should have said was that the company that Chainrai owns is responsible for its debts.

 

It's a limited company so shareholders aren't personally liable.

unless the authorities can prove negligence on the part of the shareholders, of course...

[Chin Strain]

I didn't think Chainrai was still owed anything - wasn't the amount won following the court case released from Arkady's frozen bank account?

 

I'm sure the land around the ground will have some value though. A property developer might pay 10m for both the stadium and surrounding land... so Chainrai might be abel to re-coop some of his loan?

 

It was the amount that he won......but I suspect he hasn't yet been paid if the bank accounts are frozen,

[pedg]

I thought they were in court today having the appeal heard?

 

I'm wrong aren't I.

 

There was one report to that effect but that's all so I suspect not. Others say their appeal was to be heard on the same day but why would you attempt to appeal against a major part of VAT law in a court running through a list of insolvencies and expect it to be completed before your WUO is heard? Sounds like if they appealed on a point of law w.r.t. the tax laws its going to take more than half an hour to sort out!

 

To the moment it appears their only 'appeal' is one to the judge to postpone the WUO while they continue their attempts to proposition anyone suspected of having more than a fiver. That's however would be major brinkmanship as there would be little to no time to put the club into receivership between the judge saying no to the appeal and ruling on the WUO.

[Channon's Sideburns]

Oh dear, looks like Poopey have done something else wrong....6 loanees instead of the approved 5 in the squad v Man U.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A62933385

 

Something else for the Premier League to ponder.

[hypochondriac]

There was one report to that effect but that's all so I suspect not. Others say their appeal was to be heard on the same day but why would you attempt to appeal against a major part of VAT law in a court running through a list of insolvencies and expect it to be completed before your WUO is heard? Sounds like if they appealed on a point of law w.r.t. the tax laws its going to take more than half an hour to sort out!

 

To the moment it appears their only 'appeal' is one to the judge to postpone the WUO while they continue their attempts to proposition anyone suspected of having more than a fiver. That's however would be major brinkmanship as there would be little to no time to put the club into receivership between the judge saying no to the appeal and ruling on the WUO.

 

Especially when you consider that the judge has not yet been announced.

[Gingeletiss]

Oh dear, looks like Poopey have done something else wrong....6 loanees instead of the approved 5 in the squad v Man U.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A62933385

 

Something else for the Premier League to ponder.

 

Well, that was an error, just waiting to happen. We all knew they would ferk that up;)

[Weston Super Saint]

Oh dear, looks like Poopey have done something else wrong....6 loanees instead of the approved 5 in the squad v Man U.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A62933385

 

Something else for the Premier League to ponder.

 

But Lens state that Dindane has now been 'sold' to Pompey - due to him playing more than the requisite number of games in the terms of the loan contract....

 

Quite how that is possible since 1) the transfer window is shut and 2) Pompey have no money to pay the transfer fee anyway, is beyond me, but since they claim that, I guess technically Dindane can't be counted as a 'loanee'....

[JackFrost]

But Lens state that Dindane has now been 'sold' to Pompey - due to him playing more than the requisite number of games in the terms of the loan contract....

 

Quite how that is possible since 1) the transfer window is shut and 2) Pompey have no money to pay the transfer fee anyway, is beyond me, but since they claim that, I guess technically Dindane can't be counted as a 'loanee'....

 

. . .which Pompey have recently insisted is the case, (so they don't have to pay the transfer fee)

[Crab Lungs]

It's funny how the skates were all billy big boll0(ks when they first issued the petition - denying, admitting, denying and then threatening their own legal action over it.

 

now we're a couple of days away and they're pleading for time...

[ringwood]

hope everyone's using the vote section

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/Grant-I39m-staying-for-Pompey39s.6051769.jp

 

 

Can Pompey still claw their way to Premier League safety?

27% Yes - the next three games will decide our fate

15% There's plenty left to play for this season

58% No - we are finished in the top flight

[Joensuu]

But Lens state that Dindane has now been 'sold' to Pompey - due to him playing more than the requisite number of games in the terms of the loan contract....

 

Quite how that is possible since 1) the transfer window is shut and 2) Pompey have no money to pay the transfer fee anyway, is beyond me, but since they claim that, I guess technically Dindane can't be counted as a 'loanee'....

 

So basically, either:

 

Pompey signed a player outside of the transfer window. As there is little chance of any fine being paid, points should be deducted.

 

or

 

Pompey played too many loanees. As there is little chance of any fine being paid, points should be deducted.

[Weston Saint]

Cannot believe they would risk everything on Wednesday when Administration will give them breathing space.

 

They have been an absolute joke so far but unless they do a deal with HMRC before Wednesday I am sure they will seek the protection of Administration.

[StD]

So basically, either:

 

Pompey signed a player outside of the transfer window. As there is little chance of any fine being paid, points should be deducted.

 

or

 

Pompey played too many loanees. As there is little chance of any fine being paid, points should be deducted.

 

Ironically, last week their fans were wanting points / a replay against Fulham as Nicky Shorey (on loan from Aston Villa) was playing for his third club in a single season. Just one own goal after another with Poopy at the moment!

[Channon's Sideburns]

Cannot believe they would risk everything on Wednesday when Administration will give them breathing space.

 

They have been an absolute joke so far but unless they do a deal with HMRC before Wednesday I am sure they will seek the protection of Administration.

 

But the question for me is this - if the value of their assets is less than the value of their debts, how can they go into Admin?

 

Not only that, but what have Poopey got to sell? Players? Can't do that.

 

So, how does an Administrator pay the wages at the end of the month?

[Gingeletiss]

. . .which Pompey have recently insisted is the case, (so they don't have to pay the transfer fee)

 

...and if they did, then they'll be spanked, as they had an embargo on signings, but not on loans;)

[Doctoroncall]

Oh dear, looks like Poopey have done something else wrong....6 loanees instead of the approved 5 in the squad v Man U.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A62933385

 

Something else for the Premier League to ponder.

 

I think foreign loans are counted differently to domestic ones. If they were all of the latter, they would be in trouble.

[Clapham Saint]

So basically, either:

 

Pompey signed a player outside of the transfer window. As there is little chance of any fine being paid, points should be deducted.

 

or

 

Pompey played too many loanees. As there is little chance of any fine being paid, points should be deducted.

 

I would suggest 1 point for every goal that the team scored in the game in which the offence occured.

 

So -3 then.

[Pancake]

Pretty sure you are allowed 6 in the match day squad.

 

EDIT: I cant find anything in the FA rules but numerous websites list it as 5.

Edited 8 February, 2010 by Pancake

[Minsk]

It was the amount that he won......but I suspect he hasn't yet been paid if the bank accounts are frozen,

 

My understanding is that Chainrai WAS paid the money from AG's frozen account, and it was this same money that he loaned to Poopey. (Which is pretty much what many here thought was the case. Although many of us also thought that this was in league with AG which may or may not be the case.)

[emerson massey]

So basically, either:

 

Pompey signed a player outside of the transfer window. As there is little chance of any fine being paid, points should be deducted.

 

or

 

Pompey played too many loanees. As there is little chance of any fine being paid, points should be deducted.

 

Am i right in saying the embargo on BUYING players is still in place?

 

If so, i'm not suprised they are saying its still a loan, or surely that would mean they have breached the terms of the embargo, and would be liable to a fine or points deduction (either is fine by me:D) as well as having to find the money for the transfer

[Fowllyd]

My understanding is that Chainrai WAS paid the money from AG's frozen account, and it was this same money that he loaned to Poopey. (Which is pretty much what many here thought was the case. Although many of us also thought that this was in league with AG which may or may not be the case.)

 

That's how I read the bit in the Guardian article, which is what was cited in the Pompey bulletin board. In other words, it's Chainrai's money and not Gaydamak senior's (the latter had been suggested elsewhere in this thread).

[pedg]

That's how I read the bit in the Guardian article, which is what was cited in the Pompey bulletin board. In other words, it's Chainrai's money and not Gaydamak senior's (the latter had been suggested elsewhere in this thread).

 

I think the suspicious bit is that there are so many coincidences in the story that it could easily power the infinite improbability drive! Of all the businesses in all the world why did he choose to 'invest' in the one previously owned by the son of the person who had just got the money from?

[Channon's Sideburns]

That's how I read the bit in the Guardian article, which is what was cited in the Pompey bulletin board. In other words, it's Chainrai's money and not Gaydamak senior's (the latter had been suggested elsewhere in this thread).

 

That info regarding it being Gaydamak's money was posted on a Pompey Board by one of the 5 that visited the Premier League.

 

Although most news out of Fratton Park is dubious, I would assume that it was confirmed as part of their discussions with the PL.

[Joensuu]

That's how I read the bit in the Guardian article, which is what was cited in the Pompey bulletin board. In other words, it's Chainrai's money and not Gaydamak senior's (the latter had been suggested elsewhere in this thread).

 

Well that depends on whether you believe the dubious theory...

 

If Arkady and Chainrai hate each other then, you'd imagine that it was Chainrai's money that was loaned... but if Arkady and Chainrai are in it together, then it could be that Chainrai sued Gaydamak to get his account unfrozen, and then a couple of weeks later lend (aka give) the same money back to Gaydamak.

 

For me the jury's still out on whether Chainrai and Gaydamak are working together. I suggested we'd know for sure depending on whether Chainrai kept Jacob and Azougy at Fratton. I thought either both would stay (i.e. Chainrai working alongside Gaydamak), or both would go (i.e. Chainrai is his own man)... I didn't count on the half-way option (the fraudster gets the boot, while Al Mirage's lawyer gets to stay)...

Edited 8 February, 2010 by Joensuu

[Channon's Sideburns]

One other thing, I hope Solent stop using that woman's voice on their audio.

 

'We are Portsmuff, they are Southampton - Goodbye'

 

Makes no sense no matter how many times you hear it.

 

Here's one for Solent....

 

'We are Southampton supporters and we can construct a coherent sentence. Good day to you'.

[bristolsaint29]

Just one own goal after another with Poopy at the moment!

 

Or 3 as the case maybe!!

[Under Weststand]

Cannot believe they would risk everything on Wednesday when Administration will give them breathing space.

 

They have been an absolute joke so far but unless they do a deal with HMRC before Wednesday I am sure they will seek the protection of Administration.

Now maybe I'm wrong (probably) but I thought that to go into Administration, that they had to be in a position to continue to trade whilst in Administration (not plausible in this case) & be expected to be able to sell the assets for more than they could get by winding them up?

If they do go into Administration, then they get a 9-point penalty, relegation is certain, as is no CVA agreement from HMRC they will still owe footballing debts, they will inevitably get more points deductions from the FL dealing fraudulently extra points, being in administration before Extra points, maybe up to -30-points as of Luton, would anyone be interested in buying that?

[Goalie66]

But the question for me is this - if the value of their assets is less than the value of their debts, how can they go into Admin?

 

Not only that, but what have Poopey got to sell? Players? Can't do that.

 

So, how does an Administrator pay the wages at the end of the month?

 

Good question. Short answer is that they cannot out of predicted cashflow.unless the tooth fairy comes tonight !!!!

[Minsk]

I think the suspicious bit is that there are so many coincidences in the story that it could easily power the infinite improbability drive! Of all the businesses in all the world why did he choose to 'invest' in the one previously owned by the son of the person who had just got the money from?

 

Indeed! I think his only defence is that someone sold him a STORY that it would be a good investment. This could lead to 2 conclusions:

 

1. he is not that good a businessman

 

2. the story teller is working for (and being paid by) AG

[Chin Strain]

Cannot believe they would risk everything on Wednesday when Administration will give them breathing space.

 

They have been an absolute joke so far but unless they do a deal with HMRC before Wednesday I am sure they will seek the protection of Administration.

 

I would imagine that their only hope of surviving as a football club is to do everything in their power to stay in the PL. With that comes some financial benefits and kudos that may entice someone to throw away their money buying them. Relegation, and that truly spells the end ot anyone buying them.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Cannot believe they would risk everything on Wednesday when Administration will give them breathing space.

 

They have been an absolute joke so far but unless they do a deal with HMRC before Wednesday I am sure they will seek the protection of Administration.

 

As we very well know here it can (probably will) take many months for an Administrator to sell a football club , and SFC's takeover was a relatively simple matter compared to that labyrinthine mess that is PFC . We payed the wages during this period only courtesy the generosity of shareholders such as Leon Crouch and being able to transfer players during the summer transfer window . Neither of these advantages seem to be available to Pompey .

 

I can see PFC going into administration (this week possibly) but subsequently struggling to find a realistic new owner - I don't think they are worth much more than the due parachute payment from the EPL in all honesty .

[teamsaint]

Oh dear, looks like Poopey have done something else wrong....6 loanees instead of the approved 5 in the squad v Man U.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A62933385

 

Something else for the Premier League to ponder.

 

Maybe if you break the rules you get an automatic 3-0 defeat- which would help their GD. Now that WOULD have been sharp thinking !!

[Channon's Sideburns]

Indeed! I think his only defence is that someone sold him a STORY that it would be a good investment. This could lead to 2 conclusions:

 

1. he is not that good a businessman

 

2. the story teller is working for (and being paid by) AG

 

It's funny isn't it - but if you were in charge of the spending of a business, and it was shown to be hemorraging money (according to interviews in Sept 09 from £10M to £60M now)....approaching financial meltdown...

 

How the hell would you be allowed to stay in your job?

 

We had the same argument last year about David Jones, but he was doing as he was told - CEO's are responsible for it.

[Tac-tics]

Just to clarify, Poopey go to court and HMRC are'nt happy with what is presented which is looking odds on - will Pompey cease to exsist there and then?

[Chin Strain]

So basically, either:

 

Pompey signed a player outside of the transfer window. As there is little chance of any fine being paid, points should be deducted.

 

or

 

Pompey played too many loanees. As there is little chance of any fine being paid, points should be deducted.

 

No, I think it's a case that they struck a deal with Lens in the summer to loan the player with a built in clause that once he's made x appearances, he is automatically a Pompey player, and a transfer fee kicks in. This was an existing agreement so wouldn't be covered by the embargo that came in in October.The number of games was supposedly 14, but Pompey claim to have agreed 22 (which Lens dispute). Either way, surely it's just a case of pulling out the contract and taking a look. How ****in hard can it be? Having said that, I'm assuming Pompey can find someone who can read....

[pedg]

No, I think it's a case that they struck a deal with Lens in the summer to loan the player with a built in clause that once he's made x appearances, he is automatically a Pompey player, and a transfer fee kicks in. This was an existing agreement so wouldn't be covered by the embargo that came in in October.The number of games was supposedly 14, but Pompey claim to have agreed 22 (which Lens dispute). Either way, surely it's just a case of pulling out the contract and taking a look. How ****in hard can it be? Having said that, I'm assuming Pompey can find someone who can read....

 

If anyone sees pompeys copy of the contract remember to check for tipex and the number of games written over the top in crayon.

[foghorn]

No, I think it's a case that they struck a deal with Lens in the summer to loan the player with a built in clause that once he's made x appearances, he is automatically a Pompey player, and a transfer fee kicks in. This was an existing agreement so wouldn't be covered by the embargo that came in in October.The number of games was supposedly 14, but Pompey claim to have agreed 22 (which Lens dispute). Either way, surely it's just a case of pulling out the contract and taking a look. How ****in hard can it be? Having said that, I'm assuming Pompey can find someone who can read....

 

I think Pompey have been busy shredding a lot of paperwork recently..