mcjwills Posted 30 March, 2015 Share Posted 30 March, 2015 Surely a loss of £171k for a new business with existing debts would be issued a winding up order? Yeah but you forgot the parachute payments from the premier league ain't you, you know all them millions they get each year uh oh oops has it gone, we have a choice call the receiver now or just not pay taxes. Hmm what shall we do lads. Carried Cameron has enough tax money from our fans, he can give a bit more for our 40k stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterside.saint Posted 30 March, 2015 Share Posted 30 March, 2015 The day they stop referring to themselves immodestly as "the best fans in the world" will be the day I might start showing them some empathy/pity. Plus I note, Fratton Park is now being described as an "old lady" which must be an euphemism if I ever heard one. Their whole demeanour is full of nauseous hype but the natives swallow it and the myths just go on and on which is why there will always be a need for this thread. How about 'Raddled Harlot'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgiesaint Posted 30 March, 2015 Share Posted 30 March, 2015 On the face of it, £118k Operating Profit is something to applauded, except until you realise that they've done a choose which bills you want to pay like it's a pick-a-mix in the local Odean and it doesn't include the interest on the loans they have to pay. It does raise a number of questions which need answering - - what would the loss be if they'd paid back any capital on the loan if the interest only took them to £171k loss - they ended the year with pst at a 49% stake in the club - what did they start the year on so we can see how much their share has been diluted. If they had maintained their show, how would this have effected the loss? - how much of the season ticket money is included in these accounts give it is year until 30 June 2014 and I seem to recall a lot of season tickets, pies & programmes were sold before the end of June (I may be wrong- just my recollection) and going forward: - how much is the tatty timber tabernacle (not had that one for a while) going to cost them to keep going this season given the fat in the pipes appears to seeping through the Directors room ceiling - who's paying this year, the club or are they going to further dilute their ownership? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 30 March, 2015 Share Posted 30 March, 2015 Absolutely mental that a club with a wage bill of 80k a week to players stumbles to 13th in League 2. And it doesn't look like it will be much better this season. Surely that's like Man Utd or Chelsea finishing 8th or 9th in the Premier League Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 30 March, 2015 Share Posted 30 March, 2015 - how much of the season ticket money is included in these accounts give it is year until 30 June 2014 and I seem to recall a lot of season tickets, pies & programmes were sold before the end of June (I may be wrong- just my recollection) Assuming they have accounted properly (yes, yes, I know), income should be accounted for in the period in which the service is provided, so all season ticket money received before the financial year end should be carried across into the following year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 30 March, 2015 Share Posted 30 March, 2015 On the face of it, £118k Operating Profit is something to applauded, except until you realise that they've done a choose which bills you want to pay like it's a pick-a-mix in the local Odean and it doesn't include the interest on the loans they have to pay. It does raise a number of questions which need answering - - what would the loss be if they'd paid back any capital on the loan if the interest only took them to £171k loss - they ended the year with pst at a 49% stake in the club - what did they start the year on so we can see how much their share has been diluted. If they had maintained their show, how would this have effected the loss? - how much of the season ticket money is included in these accounts give it is year until 30 June 2014 and I seem to recall a lot of season tickets, pies & programmes were sold before the end of June (I may be wrong- just my recollection) and going forward: - how much is the tatty timber tabernacle (not had that one for a while) going to cost them to keep going this season given the fat in the pipes appears to seeping through the Directors room ceiling - who's paying this year, the club or are they going to further dilute their ownership? Robinson will be paying this year. Sadly means they won't have any money for a new stand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 30 March, 2015 Share Posted 30 March, 2015 what a bombshell! members of the public can make a donation to the Portsmouth Supporters Trust Donation? That's a fricking share you little green-eyed scummah and I'm looking forward to my dividend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 30 March, 2015 Share Posted 30 March, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 30 March, 2015 Share Posted 30 March, 2015 Let them think they're fine and we're in all sorts of bother. It's ****ing funny. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 30 March, 2015 Share Posted 30 March, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 30 March, 2015 Share Posted 30 March, 2015 The worrying thing is that these people have as many votes in the forthcoming General Election as you and me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 30 March, 2015 Share Posted 30 March, 2015 McInnes' statement is awful. The sort of amateurish, pseudo-sixth-form standard prose that Neil Allen comes out with. Embarrassing, frankly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Balls Posted 30 March, 2015 Share Posted 30 March, 2015 They really are a special lot aren't they. Let them continue to bury their heads in the sand, just like last time. I'm ever so jealous don't ya know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 30 March, 2015 Share Posted 30 March, 2015 So how can you make a profit and still lose money??.............what is the total loss 171 - 118 or 171 + 118 ??............either way they are insolvent and should be wound up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 30 March, 2015 Share Posted 30 March, 2015 I'm just waiting for somebody to explain to the P*mpey fans in chimpanzee sign language what their finance figures actually entail. Could one of our esteemed posters potentially educate them? Or at least give it a bash.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 30 March, 2015 Share Posted 30 March, 2015 I think that the 118K is what they made on the gate.........the 171K loss is after they have paid the most expensive squad in L2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 That is quite a lot of interest to pay on loans that they don't have if they are debt-free as they claim. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 That is quite a lot of interest to pay on loans that they don't have if they are debt-free as they claim. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose. I'm pretty sure they're using the liberal definition of debt that only includes third party obligations. It's what a lot of companies do to present themselves as going concerns, the argument being that the shareholders would be willing to write off their debt in the event of financial difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsterdam Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 This! As a country, we're f@#ked!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 So, just to recap : They made a profit of £118,000 for the year until 30th June 2014. But, that wasn't actually a profit at all, because once they added in the interest that they paid on loans, they made a loss of £171,000 which means the interest was £289,000. I'm no rocket scientist, but that to me looks like the amount of interest you would pay on a loan of around £4m or the amount the 'presidents' 'invested' so generously.... In what for purposes of this financial statement would be classed as a 'post balance sheet' item we finally concluded the convoluted but ultimately advantageous 'Tesco' transaction benefitting the club not only in financial terms but also through the land swap accommodation enabling substantial on stadium car parking hitherto annexed from our ownership. I guess this statement is deliberately vague but it looks to me that they are also including the Robinscum money in the accounts for that year - presumably to make them look better - even though that money came in November didn't it and therefore outside of the accounting period? Again, not an expert on these things but isn't this VERY similar to the way Tescos were reporting their accounts by 'selecting' things that they did and didn't want to be included to make them look better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 So, just to recap : They made a profit of £118,000 for the year until 30th June 2014. But, that wasn't actually a profit at all, because once they added in the interest that they paid on loans, they made a loss of £171,000 which means the interest was £289,000. I'm no rocket scientist, but that to me looks like the amount of interest you would pay on a loan of around £4m or the amount the 'presidents' 'invested' so generously.... I guess this statement is deliberately vague but it looks to me that they are also including the Robinscum money in the accounts for that year - presumably to make them look better - even though that money came in November didn't it and therefore outside of the accounting period? Again, not an expert on these things but isn't this VERY similar to the way Tescos were reporting their accounts by 'selecting' things that they did and didn't want to be included to make them look better? Nah, they're just required to report on any major events from financial statement date to the date of the audit report that might be material to the user. I don't think the income has been included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 Clubs in the League 1 and League 2 operate within a Spending Constraint framework termed Salary Cost Management Protocol (SMCP). SCMP limits spending on player wages to a percentage of club Turnover. In League 1 clubs can spend a maximum of 60% of their turnover on wages - in League 2, the limit is 55%. There are no restrictions (in themselves) on the amount a club can lose or spend on transfer fees. T/O = £6.6m Wages £3.85m % = 58.33 Oh oh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffalo Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 In fairness, the £3.85m figure is inclusive of all club staff whereas the SCMP limit of 55% applies to player wages only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Balls Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 What are the rest of L2 wages like? I can't imagine there's anyone with higher. So with (presumably) the highest wages in the division, with the most intimidating home in world football attended by the bestest fans in the galaxy, they have managed to scrape to mid table in the 4th division! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 I gave up trying to educate years ago. Remember, these are the people who thought that Man Utd and Chelsea were in the same boat as pompey regarding debt. Some still believe that our administration was exactly the same as one of theirs, they have convinced themselves that we had a CVA. And some think they were punished twice for the same offence, they really are too simple to understand much at all. Just accept that they cannot grasp maths or the basic principles of business, it is a foreign language. Your time is better spent explaining the plot of Harry Potter to a heavily-sedated donkey. We just have to accept that they are the only debt-free club in world football, that we are £50M in debt and that their shares are worth a fortune. It's easier that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 (edited) What are the rest of L2 wages like? Morecambe FC have a total wage bill (players + staff) of £1.67m. They are above Portsmouth in the League. Edited 31 March, 2015 by Bearsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 Fair play, they have the most expensive turd in the pit. Bestest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Balls Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 Gate receipts of £3,4m divided by 23 games divided by an average home gate of 14,000 = av £10.55 per paying customer If correct, very cheap footie!! On one hand you want to commend them on offering cheap football but then you realise all this does is highlight how many freebies they're giving away to schools, under 10s, the Navy, competitions and literally anyone that will take them to boost attendances. Would be interesting to see what these attendances are like in their 3rd season of 4th division football when everyone has to pay and they are forced to discount less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopGun Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 So like for like: Saints Turnover: £106m Pre-Tax Profit: £33m Assets: £31m Pompey Turnover: £6.5m Pre-Tax Profit: £119,000 Assets: £4.5m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey-deacons-left-nut Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 what assets have they got that add up to £4.5m?? Fratton is now boxed in, it would cost more to pull the thing down than the land is worth.. They rent the training ground.... The players are all worthless, probably £500k tops for the whole team. Wallace is probably worth 400k with the rest adding up to 100k, bearing in mind, Pompey got them all for free or on loan... Are they coutning the cash they got form Tesco's as an asset? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 what assets have they got that add up to £4.5m?? Fratton is now boxed in, it would cost more to pull the thing down than the land is worth.. They rent the training ground.... The players are all worthless, probably £500k tops for the whole team. Wallace is probably worth 400k with the rest adding up to 100k, bearing in mind, Pompey got them all for free or on loan... Are they coutning the cash they got form Tesco's as an asset? How much is a few hundred KG's of lard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 How much is a few hundred KG's of lard? £468 http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=264155625 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterside.saint Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 what assets have they got that add up to £4.5m?? Fratton is now boxed in, it would cost more to pull the thing down than the land is worth.. They rent the training ground.... The players are all worthless, probably £500k tops for the whole team. Wallace is probably worth 400k with the rest adding up to 100k, bearing in mind, Pompey got them all for free or on loan... Are they coutning the cash they got form Tesco's as an asset? You're forgetting their greatest asset ie. their loyal 250000 fanbase. No one can put a price on that, because each and every one of them is a shareholder innit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 £468 http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=264155625 Cheers Lord T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 (edited) I'm still confused why 'Portsmouth Community Football Club Limited' still have 3 charges (all attributable to the PFA) showing as outstanding at Companies House when they've been debt-free (sic) for 6 months now. Any finance gurus out there who can shed some light on this? Cheers Edited 31 March, 2015 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey-deacons-left-nut Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 You'd have to be delusional to think of many players in L2 that have an actual value. From what I've seen over the past few seasons, all the clubs pickup players on either free's or loans. There's the odd cash buy, but its more of the exception.... We bought Ricky Lambert for circa £1m when in League 1, when he was the Leagues Joint top scorer. They have some nipper, who's scored a few goals at the bottom of League 2..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 I'm still confused why 'Portsmouth Community Football Club Limited' still have 3 charges (all attributable to the PFA) showing as outstanding at Companies House when they've been debt-free (sic) for 6 months now. Any finance gurus out there who can shed some light on this? Cheers Probably just as simple as no one applying to have the charges removed. It's not at all uncommon for charges relating to satisfied debt obligations to remain registered. Or, they haven't paid it after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 Probably just as simple as no one applying to have the charges removed. It's not at all uncommon for charges relating to satisfied debt obligations to remain registered. Cheers benjii. Do you know whose responsibility it is to request the removal of the charges? i.e. Would it be Pompey or the PFA in this instance? If it's the club that requests the removal, I wonder why they requested it for the other 2 charges to be removed (in September 2014) but not these 3...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suewhistle Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 'ees sharp, that Trousers is, but he don't half ask some awkward questions.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyinthesky Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 On one hand you want to commend them on offering cheap football but then you realise all this does is highlight how many freebies they're giving away to schools, under 10s, the Navy, competitions and literally anyone that will take them to boost attendances. Would be interesting to see what these attendances are like in their 3rd season of 4th division football when everyone has to pay and they are forced to discount less. GB No way is my comment a commendation I was querying the figure which, I think, is less than the headline rate of most Conference clubs and, if correct, perhaps indicates why their attendances are high rather like Bradford City in their days in the Fourth Tier when they charged a tenner for home games It is interesting to note that their Gate take from 23 home games is less than the potential combined revenue from just our Corporate areas in 19 home games!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 31 March, 2015 Share Posted 31 March, 2015 I'm still confused why 'Portsmouth Community Football Club Limited' still have 3 charges (all attributable to the PFA) showing as outstanding at Companies House when they've been debt-free (sic) for 6 months now. Any finance gurus out there who can shed some light on this? Cheers Can you please post a screenshot of that (preferably including today's date)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 1 April, 2015 Share Posted 1 April, 2015 (edited) The MR01 forms for the outstanding charges show that all 3 of them are between PFC and the PFA, although Portsmouth City Council and South Point Finance are also listed as 'interested parties' underneath the PFA on charge no. 0794003350004. I'm sure this is all insignificant and doesn't mean that there is any underlying "debt"..... Just curious as to why the charges still exist. Edited 1 April, 2015 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 1 April, 2015 Share Posted 1 April, 2015 Just to offer a possible explanation...perhaps the PFA agreements in which the greedy villains gave up their wages in return for abuse, included further payments if pompey returned to the Premier League? With them on the brink of a return to the top flight it would seem sensible to keep a charge in place, unless of course you trust the people enough not to need security? Let's not forget that they claimed to be debt-free on day one of the current circus. Debt-free other than the historic debt, and other debt that was outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterside.saint Posted 1 April, 2015 Share Posted 1 April, 2015 Just to offer a possible explanation...perhaps the PFA agreements in which the greedy villains gave up their wages in return for abuse, included further payments if pompey returned to the Premier League? With them on the brink of a return to the top flight it would seem sensible to keep a charge in place, unless of course you trust the people enough not to need security? Let's not forget that they claimed to be debt-free on day one of the current circus. Debt-free other than the historic debt, and other debt that was outstanding. RB raises an interesting point regarding perceptions of debt on the septic isle, where 'sums owed' have more of a Zen nature than is usual in the outside world. In their world, just as a tree falling in the forest makes no sound if there is no-one to hear it, so debts run up by the bestest only count if the board says they do. Would that we could all perform such magic, I'd be living in Chilworth and driving a Ferrari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashtead Saint Posted 1 April, 2015 Share Posted 1 April, 2015 The filing deadline at Companies House for PCFC's 2015 accounts expired yesterday. Their Companies House website entry shows the accounts as Overdue, which will result in a late filing penalty. The 3 outstanding mortgages are all dated 19 April 2013, are all in favour of the PFA and mortgage: (i) Fratton Park; (ii) PCFC’s interest in the Football League ‘Pool Account’ – the main element of which is broadcasting revenue. (iii) PCFC’s interest in the Premier League Parachute Payments for the 2012/13 and 2013/14 seasons. The mortgages secure: (a) In the case of the Fratton Park mortgage, PCFC’s liabilities under an ‘Arrears Deed’ entered into with the PFA. The ‘Arrears Deed’ is not, and does not require to be, filed at Companies House. It covers a loan from the PFA to PCFC, but whether that loan was to cover player arrears, other Football Creditors or other liabilities is unclear. I’ve no idea what the term of that loan was or the interest rate charged. The mortgage contains the usual covenant to keep the mortgaged property in good repair (b) In the case of the Football League ‘Pool Account’ mortgage, the amounts due from PCFC under separate ‘Arrears Deeds’ with the players. © In the case of the Premier League Parachute Payments mortgage, the amounts due from PCFC under separate ‘Arrears Deeds’ with the players and a ‘Trust Deed’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 1 April, 2015 Share Posted 1 April, 2015 (edited) That is quite a lot of interest to pay on loans that they don't have if they are debt-free as they claim. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose. So, just to recap : They made a profit of £118,000 for the year until 30th June 2014. But, that wasn't actually a profit at all, because once they added in the interest that they paid on loans, they made a loss of £171,000 which means the interest was £289,000. I'm no rocket scientist, but that to me looks like the amount of interest you would pay on a loan of around £4m or the amount the 'presidents' 'invested' so generously.... I guess this statement is deliberately vague but it looks to me that they are also including the Robinscum money in the accounts for that year - presumably to make them look better - even though that money came in November didn't it and therefore outside of the accounting period? Again, not an expert on these things but isn't this VERY similar to the way Tescos were reporting their accounts by 'selecting' things that they did and didn't want to be included to make them look better? IIRC, the interest they paid on loans was the interest they were paying on loans they'd acquired in order to pay off the outstanding player legacy debts (the £14m they've reduced to nothing), which suggests to me that they paid their player debts off early by acquiring another loan. I guess we may not know about that one until next year though, it might have been Robinson's money covering it, or indeed "the hard work and... " that allowed them to pay the debts off "early", i.e. less late than they'd originally planned. They do casually breeze over the fact that the main reason the £14m was paid off was because the parachute payments were routed directly to pay off the outstanding football debts (which presumably remained a condition linked to the FL allowing them to play in L1 back in 2012/13). What I find astounding is the number of people who saw the reporting of Skates turning a profit and have posted on the BBC comments wishing them well for definitely not financially doping themselves to an FA Cup they couldn't afford with players they didn't pay other clubs for, and then defaulting on £80m of taxpayers' money. Edited 1 April, 2015 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 1 April, 2015 Share Posted 1 April, 2015 The filing deadline at Companies House for PCFC's 2015 accounts expired yesterday. Their Companies House website entry shows the accounts as Overdue, which will result in a late filing penalty. The 3 outstanding mortgages are all dated 19 April 2013, are all in favour of the PFA and mortgage: (i) Fratton Park; (ii) PCFC’s interest in the Football League ‘Pool Account’ – the main element of which is broadcasting revenue. (iii) PCFC’s interest in the Premier League Parachute Payments for the 2012/13 and 2013/14 seasons. The mortgages secure: (a) In the case of the Fratton Park mortgage, PCFC’s liabilities under an ‘Arrears Deed’ entered into with the PFA. The ‘Arrears Deed’ is not, and does not require to be, filed at Companies House. It covers a loan from the PFA to PCFC, but whether that loan was to cover player arrears, other Football Creditors or other liabilities is unclear. I’ve no idea what the term of that loan was or the interest rate charged. The mortgage contains the usual covenant to keep the mortgaged property in good repair (b) In the case of the Football League ‘Pool Account’ mortgage, the amounts due from PCFC under separate ‘Arrears Deeds’ with the players. © In the case of the Premier League Parachute Payments mortgage, the amounts due from PCFC under separate ‘Arrears Deeds’ with the players and a ‘Trust Deed’. Cheers for the analysis Ashtead Saint. One thing though..... I can't work out if it means good or bad news (for them, or us nutjobs)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 1 April, 2015 Share Posted 1 April, 2015 "Carlisle are still in the bottom half of the table and probably a bit worried about getting enough points to stay up and are scrapping for their lives", said the manager of a team also in the bottom half and only 8 points ahead of said strugglers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 1 April, 2015 Share Posted 1 April, 2015 I do realize that unfortunately it is very unlikely to happen, but they only have 49 points, which would not have been enough to have kept them up in the last 2 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 1 April, 2015 Share Posted 1 April, 2015 Awful: "There aren't any easy games in this league, as we've found out" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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