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Pompey Takeover Saga


Fitzhugh Fella

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Penny Mordaunt condoning businesses that defraud the revenue. Must contact her to see if my company can enjoy the same privileges, going to write to my MP asking if this is the Coalition's policy with DC giving his approval.

 

I also thought the council loan had to be repaid in August, PST must be gagging for a huge early bird season ticket take up.

 

This isn't the end, just the beginning, you nutjobs can sharpen the knives ready for the fun to begin, too many chiefs and not enough indians.

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I presume (we can only presume, given that the "transparent" trust has been anything but) the theory is that season ticket sales will provide the vast majority of working capital through the summer and into the early part of next season, and then the hope is that they get a good start to the season and momentum builds enough to get big crowds during the second half of the season to plug the gap. The vast majority (if not all) of the parachute payment due next season cannot be counted upon as they're largely spoken for with the football creditors that will be carried over to the new owners.

 

Don't forget League Two operates (supposedly) strict salary control regulations, which restricts the wages/turnover ratio to a maximum of 55%, so it's not as if they can just dive in and recommence an overspending policy. That said, given the size of the other clubs in League Two, they're still going to be able to attract the best players for that level.

 

Fairly sure that recently relegated clubs have a 2 year exemption to this. I may be wrong on the duration, but there's definitely an exemption of sorts.

 

I know McInnes is going to be the chairman, but have they said anything about appointing a CEO? They're going to need somebody with a bit of experience in the industry to deal with players, agents and other clubs, otherwise they risk getting taken for a ride by a lot of people because of their naivety and inexperience of the way the game works.

 

They've previously said they have someone in mind to come in as a CEO; someone with genuine experience. Quite who they can afford is another matter.

 

It really is going to be fun to see the novelty wear off and watch it all unfurl. A massive accident waiting to happen.

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I hadn't realised that they hadn't collected all the £1000 pledges. I thought they had. Unlike some, I don't see this as a problem. Now the deal is definitely on I can see others will be keen to get involved to replace any that don't pay up. And the HNWs will surely cover any temporary shortfall. We're not talking about a vast amount (relatively speaking).

 

If we put aside all the "biggest community club" nonsense, this is a genuine success for the PST (PDT). It will be interesting to see what the add-ons are that got Chanrai to agree to something he could have agreed to months ago without the expense of a court case.

 

It's what happens next that is really going to be interesting. Even though the few are fewer than they think, they will still attract bigger crowds than most League Two clubs and, if they start debt free (I know), should be able to pay a squad capable of getting them back up to League One. But what happens if they fail? Or succeed and then struggle in League One? What happens when their "shareholders" realise that they are nothing of the sort and have no say in how the club is run?

 

They'll enjoy their evening today and they'll even enjoy going down, convinced that everything will now be better because "they" own the club.

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Fairly sure that recently relegated clubs have a 2 year exemption to this. I may be wrong on the duration, but there's definitely an exemption of sorts.

 

Not sure about that. This is from the FL rules for clubs relegated to L1 from the NPC :

"

iii. Sanctions for clubs relegated to League 1

Clubs relegated to League 1 will not be entitled to any payout derived from the Fair Play Tax and will be required to comply with the FFP rules in operation in that division."

 

There is no mention of an exemption for clubs relegated from L1 to L2 :

 

"

 

League 1 and League 2

League 1 and League 2, clubs have chosen to implement the Salary Cost Management Protocol (SCMP) first used in League 2 in 2004/05, although it will operate at different thresholds in each division.

The SCMP broadly limits spending on total player wages to a proportion of each club's turnover, with clubs providing budgetary information to The League at the beginning of the season that is updated as the campaign progresses.

Any club that is deemed to have breached the permitted spending threshold will be subject to a transfer embargo. Wherever possible, The League will seek to tackle the issue 'at source' by refusing player registrations that take clubs beyond the threshold.

At the beginning of the current season, League 2 clubs reduced the permitted spending threshold to 55% from 60% and this figure will continue to be operated next season.

League 1 clubs are currently operating a 'pilot' of the SCMP with clubs complying with a 75% threshold but with no sanctions being applicable this season. This threshold will reduce to 65% in 2012/13 and 60% in 2013/14 with sanctions (transfer embargoes) being applicable in both seasons"

 

http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/FLExplainedDetail/0,,10794~2748246,00.html

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Of course we are glad.

 

This thread has now got plenty more mileage in it. 100,000 posts is now guaranteed. Who knows when it is going to end???

When trousers hits 10,000?

 

Blimey, he was stuck on a few dozen below 5000 for a while. I was ready for the big 5000 party to come up in a day or so, log in today, only to find he has zoomed past it at 100 mph. Before you can blink, he's on 5102.

 

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That's what happens, I suppose, when the Cheats get taken over again. :lol:

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Anyone know what the hold up is on publishing the details of the deal between BDO/PKF and Portpin?

 

After all, the judge did say one of the conditions of him agreeing it was that it was made available to the public in its entirety.

 

Surely it's a simple matter of uploading a PDF or suchlike to a website?

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When trousers hits 10,000?

 

Blimey, he was stuck on a few dozen below 5000 for a while. I was ready for the big 5000 party to come up in a day or so, log in today, only to find he has zoomed past it at 100 mph. Before you can blink, he's on 5102.

 

[TABLE=width: 197]

[TR]

[TD]Nutjob[/TD]

[TD]Posts[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]
trousers[/TD]

[TD]5,102[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]
dubai_phil[/TD]

[TD]2,617[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]
pedg[/TD]

[TD]2,261[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]
OldNick[/TD]

[TD]1,805[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]
rallyboy[/TD]

[TD]1,680[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]
Gemmel[/TD]

[TD]1,564[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]
View From The Top[/TD]

[TD]1,296[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]
Channon's Sideburns[/TD]

[TD]1,244[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]
Gingeletiss[/TD]

[TD]1,201[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]
Crab Lungs[/TD]

[TD]1,129[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]
hutch[/TD]

[TD]1,051[/TD]

[/TR]

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[TD]
EastleighSoulBoy[/TD]

[TD]1,026[/TD]

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[TD]
hypochondriac[/TD]

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[TD]Dark Munster[/TD]

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That's what happens, I suppose, when the Cheats get taken over again. :lol:

 

That's a landslide of Thatcher proportions! ;)

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Not sure about that. This is from the FL rules for clubs relegated to L1 from the NPC :

"

iii. Sanctions for clubs relegated to League 1

Clubs relegated to League 1 will not be entitled to any payout derived from the Fair Play Tax and will be required to comply with the FFP rules in operation in that division."

 

There is no mention of an exemption for clubs relegated from L1 to L2 :

 

"

 

League 1 and League 2

League 1 and League 2, clubs have chosen to implement the Salary Cost Management Protocol (SCMP) first used in League 2 in 2004/05, although it will operate at different thresholds in each division.

The SCMP broadly limits spending on total player wages to a proportion of each club's turnover, with clubs providing budgetary information to The League at the beginning of the season that is updated as the campaign progresses.

Any club that is deemed to have breached the permitted spending threshold will be subject to a transfer embargo. Wherever possible, The League will seek to tackle the issue 'at source' by refusing player registrations that take clubs beyond the threshold.

At the beginning of the current season, League 2 clubs reduced the permitted spending threshold to 55% from 60% and this figure will continue to be operated next season.

League 1 clubs are currently operating a 'pilot' of the SCMP with clubs complying with a 75% threshold but with no sanctions being applicable this season. This threshold will reduce to 65% in 2012/13 and 60% in 2013/14 with sanctions (transfer embargoes) being applicable in both seasons"

 

http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/FLExplainedDetail/0,,10794~2748246,00.html

Does the (final - ha!) August parachute payment count as "turnover" for that season? Knowing the Cheats, they'll find a way to make sure it is, and voila, they can (over)spend as much as they wish (before their 5th administration).

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Anyone know what the hold up is on publishing the details of the deal between BDO/PKF and Portpin?

 

After all, the judge did say one of the conditions of him agreeing it was that it was made available to the public in its entirety.

 

Surely it's a simple matter of uploading a PDF or suchlike to a website?

 

Somebody claims to have the details here...http://fansonline.net/portsmouth/mb/view.php?id=491887

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Claims that the club are debt free is pure spin - already they have to pay PCC £1,5m plus the agreed CVA payments and any future add ons to BC - they have inherited debt , have to pay it and keep a very tight hold on the purse strings - income after the final parachute payment relies on football income , ticket sales etc.

 

Quite different when SFC was purchased outright - we can truly say are club is debt free and ALL creditors were paid in full by Marcus

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Such a momentous occasion with PFC being ....... sorry, had been confused but the factless carp spouted by the pimlpey few..... about to be football's biggest and bestest ™ community owned club that the BBC are honouring it on their main Sports page with ...................... f-all, zip, nada, nout, nothing. No big headline none, not even one of the tiniest headlines hidden away anywhere. Big sporting news!

 

There's a little link on the Football page but that's even below the job status of Danny Wilson.

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Now HERE is a salutary tale....

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2306489/Martin-Samuel-A-real-football-club-sacrificed-cyberspaces-howling-mob.html

 

In fact read that and it not only resonates on what could happen down the road, but also some of the comments hit uncomfortably close to home about all football fans and their forums/opinions...

 

..............that was sacrificed to the modern obsession with Have Your Say Now, the desire to possess direct influence over everything from who plays Dorothy to who plays centre forward. It is a very modern phenomenon.

Football supporters have always complained that the manager is clueless and the board no better, but this fixation with having input is new. It is only recently that managers like Gary Megson, Alex McLeish and Rafael Benitez have been booed into their jobs.

 

Political discourse has never been shallower, but the world wants its say on the boss of Bolton Wanderers and Britain’s top dog act, and it wants it this minute. It wants to hit the red button, it wants to tweet, it wants a petition, a Facebook group, a flash mob, a howling mob, it doesn’t know what the hell it wants half the time, but it wants to decide. And Ebbsfleet United are the collateral damage.

 

A struggling football club, ripe for takeover, fell into the hands of keyboard warriors who wanted to tell the manager what to do, often anonymously.

 

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For the first time in 4 years I don't give a toss what happens to Pompey this coming week. Too busy buzzing about being a Saints fan. Hic.

 

That's the ****ing spirit! (I'm currently on whatever page you posted that on, I'll catch up to present time in about 2 hours. Or another bottle of red...)

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I wonder if the up front costs and the total of the charges come to about 6.3 million? That would be a coincidence would it not?

 

Somebody claims to have the details here...http://fansonline.net/portsmouth/mb/view.php?id=491887

 

£3m up front

£350,000 add on over next 5 years

£2m add on if PFC return to Premier League in next 10 years

 

plus other bits; CVA payment for £500k and '£350k to an asset'

 

3 + .35 + 2 + .5 +.35 = 6.2

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If the purchase is completed, does anyone have a breakdown of approximately who will own what percentage of the club. For example, as the money from the council is a loan, I'm assuming that the council won't own any of the shares; would these shares be gifted to the trust? If so, would this (just) push the supporter's share holding over the 50% mark?

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So does this "biggest community club in Britain" nonsense just come from their league position?

Do other supporters own their Club?

Yes, although should we achieve a position of PST owning the majority of shares in the Club we would be the highest placed Club in England owned or controlled by supporters.

 

Currently AFC Wimbledon, Wycombe Wanderers and Exeter City in League 2 are majority owned by their supporters, along with Wrexham and AFC Telford United in the Football Conference. Dundee in the Scottish Premier League are the UK’s first top flight Club majority owned by supporters.

From here: http://www.communitypompey.co.uk/faqs/#faq30

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Ok, so bearing in mind I'm monumentally naive in the ways of finance but can someone explain:

"Iain McInnes said today the debt will £0 and the club will be relatively cash rich for the first time in many years,"

To my knowledge they haven't paid anything from cva's 1 and 2 so how do they work out they owe nothing? Don't they owe that percentage of the first percentage, so to speak?

From £120 million odd to zero without paying anything from two cva's???

Can't be right surely?

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Ok, so bearing in mind I'm monumentally naive in the ways of finance but can someone explain:

"Iain McInnes said today the debt will £0 and the club will be relatively cash rich for the first time in many years,"

To my knowledge they haven't paid anything from cva's 1 and 2 so how do they work out they owe nothing? Don't they owe that percentage of the first percentage, so to speak?

From £120 million odd to zero without paying anything from two cva's???

Can't be right surely?

 

He lies, unless he is saying that the full amount owing under CVA2 will be paid up front on day 1. ( Plus there's the add-ons to Chinny, plus there's the bridging loan from the council, etc, etc ). Pompey approach to household finances - if you burn the bill you don't have to pay it.

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Well apart from the debt to the council, the outstanding debt of CVA2 (not even considering CVA1), the debt to the HNW - That will be converted into equity and reduce the pst share percentage and the debt to the football creditors and other football clubs...... They are completely debt free.

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First up, to those who fought for their club to survive, you have to appreciate they have so far worked hard and it looks like they will succeed in saving their club.... putting all the rivalry to the side, you have to acknowledge thats a pretty good effort to date.

 

But, there are several issues and questions that taint this success, which teh football community seem happy sweeping under the carpet just as much as the fans of pompey. Perhaps its a recognition that there are MANY clubs operating above their means in a high risk way, and so taking too high a moral stance by many would be hypocritical, who knows...

 

But it is galling that no one from pompey trust has ever acknowledged that the fans BENEFITTED as a direct result from those 'mismanaging' the finances... until they do, the trust leadership will also be tarnished by the simple fact that their club failed to pay debts of 120mil to creditors and the tax man, whilst winning the cup... as many of tehir fans have said without any hint of a moral compass, history will record them as winners and in 20 years no one will remember the 'cheating' that got them there... and sadly that is so true.

 

Other questions remain:

 

1. They do not yet actually OWN the club, they ahve merely and agreement in place with BDO/Portpin to purchase the groun for 3mil + add ons, plus and agreement to buy the club for about 500K to clear an agreed CVA, and using teh remaining parachute payments to clear footballing debt... they are hopeful they will own the club as of the 22 April

 

2. Contrary to what te PST have said, they still seem to be reluctant to be fully transparent on a) the actual amount of cash devived from fan pledges, b) the amount of cash underwritten by HNWs to make up the shortfall, c) the current and realistic level of trust v HNW share, d) the fact that as a member of trust your £1000, is not a share and thus is worth nothing, e) What the actual financial position will be given that the liabilties known will be:

 

1) add ons to chinny (prior to any prem promotion.....)

2) 1.45 mil to PCC

3) 8mil + to football creditors

4) Outstaning fees to BDO

5) 500K to CVA 2 (absorbing cva1)

6) any other liabilties

 

and thus how that compares to their initial cash position?

 

a) total pledges recived to date

b) total contribution from HNW individuals that is converted to equity

c) Totol contribution from HNW that is expected to be paid back, or converted to further equity at teh expense of trust percentage ownership

d) final parachute payments

e) Existing cash in the bank

 

...and finally, IF as the trust have recently quietly been celebrating, they see a surplus of a few mil as a result of the INCREASE in parachute payments (as its calculated on a share basis of the current prem league payouts)... do they not think that rsather tahn planning for a big splash and L2 domination, they might, just might claw back some integrity by incresing the the amount available to creditors of the failed CVA1 and CVA2? ....Or have the creditors and the 120mil been conveniently forgotten in the the euphoria? NO class

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Gloating P*mpey fans are definitely getting on my t!ts, saying how they'll be back in the Prem in no time. I don't think they realise they're going to be skint for the foreseeable future.

 

Can't see too many of the Bestest Fans In The World TM getting themselves down to Nottarf Krap when they're playing the likes of Accrington and Morecambe.

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...and finally, IF as the trust have recently quietly been celebrating, they see a surplus of a few mil as a result of the INCREASE in parachute payments (as its calculated on a share basis of the current prem league payouts)... do they not think that rsather tahn planning for a big splash and L2 domination, they might, just might claw back some integrity by incresing the the amount available to creditors of the failed CVA1 and CVA2? ....Or have the creditors and the 120mil been conveniently forgotten in the the euphoria? NO class

 

No they won't, but then they won't be the first :-

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/apr/08/swansea-halo-owners-windfall?CMP=twt_gu

 

Was this posted here yesterday??

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Gloating P*mpey fans are definitely getting on my t!ts, saying how they'll be back in the Prem in no time. I don't think they realise they're going to be skint for the foreseeable future.

It's actually having the opposite effect for me... I find it quite funny that they think it'll be that easy. Ignoring stupid posters on SaintsWeb means it's easy to ignore Pompey fans talking crap. :D

 

If it's true that part of the 'add-ons' are for Pompey to repay £2m if they return to the Premier League within 10 years, I would happily place a bet on the fact that they WON'T.

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It's actually having the opposite effect for me... I find it quite funny that they think it'll be that easy. Ignoring stupid posters on SaintsWeb means it's easy to ignore Pompey fans talking crap. :D

 

If it's true that part of the 'add-ons' are for Pompey to repay £2m if they return to the Premier League within 10 years, I would happily place a bet on the fact that they WON'T.

 

What's that :-

 

o return to the PL

o Pay the £2m if they do

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The reality is, that should they actually be successful in running the club properly, within its means and with sensible approach to building infrastructure, eg training ground, academy etc and thinnking longer term, they will not be pushing for promotion beyond L1 for some time consideralble time... but they could if they do that, begin rebuilding their reputation. I just wonder if their 'Loyal' bestest fans, will have the patience for such an approach or whether demands for better players will push them towards a higher risk strategy...again.... will be interesting...., especially if evenutally the property developers make appropriate promised and then do a Brighton on them, making them play elsewhere whilst selling the ground on teh promise of a new stadium to come.... That would worry me and my minority trust ownership...

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... they might' date=' just might claw back some integrity by incresing the the amount available to creditors of the failed CVA1 and CVA2? [/quote']

 

The CVA is agreed and therefore fixed - the creditors will get what is in the agreement, not a penny more. I agree that there is a moral aspect to this, but they've never exhibited any so far, so why start now ?

 

As has been discussed earlier, the things they seem to be overlooking are the fact that the FL will be watching them like hawks for the next few years, and they are constrained by the Financial Fair Play rules. I very much doubt they'll even average 10,000 in their dump next season, so their financial model won't stack up.

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...and finally' date=' IF as the trust have recently quietly been celebrating, they see a surplus of a few mil as a result of the INCREASE in parachute payments (as its calculated on a share basis of the current prem league payouts)... do they not think that rsather tahn planning for a big splash and L2 domination, [b']they might, just might claw back some integrity by incresing the the amount available to creditors of the failed CVA1 and CVA2? [/b]....

 

Coffee_spray.gif

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What's that :-

 

o return to the PL

o Pay the £2m if they do

lol - I'll leave the delusions of wealth to the Pompey fans... no, I will simply put a modest bet on the fact that Pompey will not return to the PL within 10 years!

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22106528

 

Portpin go out on a bit of a whimper... :suspicious:

 

"Having worked closely with all parties, we are delighted to have now reached an agreement," Portpin said in a statement.

"This agreement came about due to the good faith displayed by all those involved, working together with one aim in mind: to save Portsmouth Football Club from liquidation. This has now been achieved and we wish the Trust - and the club - all the best in the future."

 

And no Pompey takeover article would be complete without one of these...

 

Pompey will now become the biggest community owned club in Britain with supporters pledging £1,000 each while several High Net Worth investors are also involved in the bid.

 

:facepalm:

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.... will be interesting....' date=' especially if evenutally the property developers make appropriate promised and then do a Brighton on them, making them play elsewhere whilst selling the ground on teh promise of a new stadium to come.... That would worry me and my minority trust ownership...[/quote']

 

We talked of the word 'OVERAGE' yesterday... surely Chinny has his eye on this?

 

The poor bugger has claimed my position is secured, I will get my money back, I doubt he is going to let a bunch of UK based property developers turn a huge profit on the back of his investment...

 

I can imagine Mick, Ashley and the gang heralding the great adventure to Moneyfields, whilst the PDT bulldoze fratton to install the nice new Tescos... the trust have no say, minority shareholders with no control of the access to the land.. Mr Robinson bought that little ransom strip and as such will be sitting at the top table of negotiations with the Tesco cheifs... the trust will have no say and will not be party to any commcercial discussions of this nature, all they can do is ask factless to spin the move as a river of hope...

 

Love it!

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Grim reality will kick in around 5pm on Saturday when Brentford have beaten them and the gap is virtually unreachable to Oldham who should win at Bury. How ironic that a red striped team starting with S will hopefully relegate the Cheats next Saturday!!

WTFILN.

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Hmmm....same chap that left Bury in the mire....his departing words:

 

http://www.buryfc.co.uk/news/article/mark-catlin-resigns-363150.aspx

A few months ago I spoke to Chairman Brian (Fenton) and explained that it was becoming increasingly difficult for me to give 100% commitment as a director due to my own personal and business pressures.

 

Brian has done all that he can to convince me to stay these last few months, but I have made it clear to him that unless I can commit and give the full 100% (that I believe is required) then I am doing myself and the club a disservice.

Edited by trousers
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