RonManager Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 http://www.portsmouth.gov.uk/yourcouncil/28930.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suewhistle Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Worrying symptoms of living on my own... I've just shouted out loud at my screen... HOW?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint si Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 From the link above... http://www.portsmouth.gov.uk/media/Cab20130227rAppC.pdf Very revealing document. Provides more detail of the Trust's business plan than even Farmery knows about. The business and assets of the club will be acquired for £13.6m broken down as follows: Fratton Park £3.12m CVA £0.76m Special Creditors £0.09m Football Creditors – Other Clubs £1.25m Football Creditors – Non Playing Staff £0.38m Football Creditors – Players £7.96m £13.56m The S151 Officer has observed proof of funds of Investments within the PST’s Legal Advisors Client Account as follows: i) High Net Worth Investors and Associate Directors (known as Presidents) £1.02m ii) Fan Share Scheme £1.05m (now believed to be £1.3m) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 http://www.portsmouth.gov.uk/yourcouncil/28930.html so a council loan for the Skates, quite like that. When their latest half-baked scheme goes t*its up, as it will, the whole city gets shafted as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjwills Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 I'd seriously be peed off if I was a tax payer in Portsmouth especially if a service I needed head just been cut due to lack of funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 so a council loan for the Skates, quite like that. When their latest half-baked scheme goes t*its up, as it will, the whole city gets shafted as well. But they will get some nice new housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Micah Hall proving once again the people of Portsea island are lacking in mathematical skills. Micah Hall @blueballoo2000 pcc makes a 6 figure profit from it to help fund local services 5% of £1.45m is NOT a six figure sum. It is £72,500. A five figure sum! Is it worth the risk of loaning a business that has failed 3 times, to pick up such a small figure? Less the interest either paid by PCC for a loan or interest on their capital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 http://www.portsmouth.gov.uk/yourcouncil/28930.html A letter has been sent to both the Administrators and the Football League asking them to confirm that “the Football League remain committed to only transferring the share to the PST, following completion of the purchase, and that no other commercial alternative is being considered which would result in the share being transferred elsewhere” Confirmation is awaited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 (edited) So, they've promised first dibs on the August parachute payments to the council, according to the BBC. That means they need to renegotiate with the players, no wonder the PFA isn't happy. I think I'm missing something here... The football creditor rules, which state that the players get first dibs in any administration, are made by and upheld by the football authorities.... So, why oh why are the football league giving their backing to a bid that is blatantly aiming to flout the very same rules that they are supposed to be upholding? As I say, am I missing something obvious here? Edited 27 February, 2013 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 I think I'm missing something here... The football creditor rules, which state that the players get first dibs in any administration, are made by and upheld by the football authorities.... So, why oh why are the football league giving their backing to a bid that is blatantly aiming to flout the very same rules that they are supposed to be upholding? As I say, am I missing something obvious here? Maybe it's the PST missing it? Really wouldn't surprise me. It's blatantly obvious that the players made a huge mistake agreeing to any compromise at all if they wanted to see their money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andysstuff Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 I think I'm missing something here... The football creditor rules, which state that the players get first dibs in any administration, are made by and upheld by the football authorities.... So, why oh why are the football league giving their backing to a bid that is blatantly aiming to flout the very same rules that they are supposed to be upholding? As I say, am I missing something obvious here? No, I don't think you're missing anything. Just because PCC and PDT have come to a commercial agreement, it doesn't mean that that agreement is acceptable to other parties. Let's wait and see what the PFA et al have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faz Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 From the link above... http://www.portsmouth.gov.uk/media/Cab20130227rAppC.pdf Very revealing document. Provides more detail of the Trust's business plan than even Farmery knows about. The business and assets of the club will be acquired for £13.6m broken down as follows: Fratton Park £3.12m CVA £0.76m Special Creditors £0.09m Football Creditors – Other Clubs £1.25m Football Creditors – Non Playing Staff £0.38m Football Creditors – Players £7.96m £13.56m The S151 Officer has observed proof of funds of Investments within the PST’s Legal Advisors Client Account as follows: i) High Net Worth Investors and Associate Directors (known as Presidents) £1.02m ii) Fan Share Scheme £1.05m (now believed to be £1.3m) I'm not seeing PKF's fees of circa £2m-£2.5m, legal costs and disbursements (which must be pretty hefty by now) nor the mysterious Chinny £2m which PKF forgot about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 @pn_neil_allen: Seems Council had letter from FL stating #Pompey Trust only viable bid & only bid that can succeed. Contrary to claims from some this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Red Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 (edited) It looks as though the Trust may well get their wish and be intermediate owners for a few months, before another administration and then being bought out by a local small businessman like all other low to non-league clubs. (I wonder if there'll still be outstanding football creditors and non-payment of CVA1, and a double points deduction) So, Sweepstake time When will they go into administration again? I'll go for March 31 2014 Edited 27 February, 2013 by Winchester Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faz Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 (edited) From the link above... http://www.portsmouth.gov.uk/media/Cab20130227rAppC.pdf Very revealing document. Provides more detail of the Trust's business plan than even Farmery knows about. The business and assets of the club will be acquired for £13.6m broken down as follows: Fratton Park £3.12m CVA £0.76m Special Creditors £0.09m Football Creditors – Other Clubs £1.25m Football Creditors – Non Playing Staff £0.38m Football Creditors – Players £7.96m £13.56m The S151 Officer has observed proof of funds of Investments within the PST’s Legal Advisors Client Account as follows: i) High Net Worth Investors and Associate Directors (known as Presidents) £1.02m ii) Fan Share Scheme £1.05m (now believed to be £1.3m) Where is the £2m-£2.5m PKF fees coming from? Who is paying all the court costs? What about Baloo's mysterious £2m that PKF forgot about? They need £3.88m on day 1 (£3.12m for FP, £0.76m for the CVA). They have funds of £3.87m. They're already short with no income until August. How will that be funded? Just a few of the questions I would be asking as a Councillor elected to look after the interests of my constituents. Edited 27 February, 2013 by Faz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Where is the £2m-£2.5m PKF fees coming from? Who is paying all the court costs? What about Baloo's mysterious £2m that PKF forgot about? They need £3.88m on day 1 (£3.12m for FP, £0.76m for the CVA). They have funds of £3.87m. They're already short with no income until August. How will that be funded? Just a few of the questions I would be asking as a Councillor elected to look after the interests of my constituents. Also the £2m? that Kanu is claiming which seems to have been conveniently forgotten, but I doubt has gone away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Ah so the dear old Popular Front for the Liberation of Tooting (aka PDT) in their "we're all in it together" new age pseudo Communist Style have one critical task they must now perform. They must become Maggie Thatcher and smash the Evil Trade Union. Next up. They are about to shaft the PFA. They will then get the Golden Share to compete in L2 next season. And what Union will all the players they wish to recruit belong to? Oh yes the one they have smashed in the teeth. Oh there is a long long way to go in this story yet. IF it was so easy to google the original nottarf redevelopment plans and PDT march into court with their 50 houses scheme... (Because let's face it, Chinny is just an amateur he doesn't have google) It just goes on and on and on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goneawol Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 @pn_neil_allen: Seems Council had letter from FL stating #Pompey Trust only viable bid & only bid that can succeed. Contrary to claims from some this week. Not a fact then #factlessallen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 (edited) Of course all the fun today will not count for a hill of beans if the court case goes against them. I wonder if PKF try to use the councils "Well it would cost millions to clear the site and we could put up a couple of houses on it afterwards if we are lucky" valuation estimates? Not sure they will stand up to too much scrutiny, especially as said earlier they previously appeared to have been happy with a plan with far more dwellings on the same site. Edited 27 February, 2013 by pedg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 @pn_neil_allen: Some have championed Chainrai for 'saving' #Pompey through a loan (29pc interest). So will the council be similarly hoisted aloft (5pc)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint137 Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Looking at those terms for the loan I can't see how PDT can meet them so shirley its irrelevant? Seems to me that the council have tied it up in knots in order to be able to say "we tried, we had to ensure we protected our taxpayers, its not our fault the PDT couldn't deliver on promises/the PFA invoked the Football Creditors rule/PP payments weren't made/Orville and his mates challenged the decision of the FA in the courts/etc." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Of course all the fun today will not count for a hill of beans if the court case goes against them. I wonder if PKF try to use the councils "Well it would cost millions to clear the site and we could put up a couple of houses on it afterwards if we are lucky" valuation estimates? Not sure they will stand up to too much scrutiny, especially as said earlier they previously appeared to have been happy with a plan with far more dwellings on the same site. If the judge doesn't wave through the PKF / PDT court case I will eat my own genitalia baked in a pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Kirkup Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 If the judge doesn't wave through the PKF / PDT court case I will eat my own genitalia baked in a pie. Exactly this. Everything is being lined up for the PDT to take over. That of course is when the fun really starts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 If the judge doesn't wave through the PKF / PDT court case I will eat my own genitalia baked in a pie. Can I sell the movie rights to that? No, don't want to even be in the country when that happens, just think it would be a good money spinner in certain parts of the East of Hampshire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Because they won't get the parachute payments until August and need the money now to buy the club. and i thought the PPs were all used up..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 If the judge doesn't wave through the PKF / PDT court case I will eat my own genitalia baked in a pie. 8ollocks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Can I sell the movie rights to that? No, don't want to even be in the country when that happens, just think it would be a good money spinner in certain parts of the East of Hampshire As long as you call it 'Jap's Pie', yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Do the FL realise that their preferred buyer is going into debt to buy the club and will repay that creditor before it starts settling up with the football creditors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Sorry but haven't followed this thread for a while and brains are now mashed trying to understand it. To help, can someone please tell me what PKF and PDT stand for ? Thank you kindly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterside.saint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Sorry but haven't followed this thread for a while and brains are now mashed trying to understand it. To help, can someone please tell me what PKF and PDT stand for ? Thank you kindly. PKF http://www.pkf.co.uk/ PDT could that refer to PST? http://www.pompeytrust.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 I assume the council have seen the whole business plan in order for them agree to the loan, and being sensible and law abiding people, the business plan must bear scrutiny and be workable. That reassures me because my blood would be boiling if I thought pfc were going to escape again just because some politicians couldn't be trusted to behave with integrity and in the best interests of their community.this is the council that cost its constituents £11.1 million when they failed to put together water tight contract with the contractor building the the Spinnaker tower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 PKF = Pretty Klever F***ers PST = Pathetically Stupid Tossers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Sorry but haven't followed this thread for a while and brains are now mashed trying to understand it. To help, can someone please tell me what PKF and PDT stand for ? Thank you kindly. PDT is property developers trust. PDT used instead of PST because the bid is funded more by property developers than supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 The valuation looks a bit suspect, you would have thought the Trust had put forward that valuation. It would be interesting if BC put an uppage clause in the contract. Eg if they go on to increase the amount of housing extra is paid per property above that stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 There is no way the judge will see the club liquidated. He will give them it for 3 mil or less no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom8558 Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 There is no way the judge will see the club liquidated. He will give them it for 3 mil or less no doubt. I happen to agree tbh. My honest opinion is the club will be league two next year on minus ten or something with the PST trying to run the club with little money. It's gonna keep going this thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 There is no way the judge will see the club liquidated. He will give them it for 3 mil or less no doubt. £3.12m. Job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 @blueballoo2000: Shamefully, labour and Tory deputations argued for delay and liquidation - Ferrett and Stubbs, hang your heads in shame. Hall seems to forget that the vast majority of constituents don't give a ****ing toss about this tax dodging cesspitt of a company and care more about the basic services they pay for out of their council taxes. John Ferrett's response to the decision: The Council Leader is once again given a platform by this paper for more Lib Dem propaganda. Note there is no counter-view, either in the article or video. One reason is that the News Editor has instructed his journalists not to seek quotes from myself as Leader of the Labour Group. This is what passes for a free press in Portsmouth. The opposition were given less than 24 hours notice of this meeting and no advance briefing of the papers before they went public. Furthermore, we had been promised a meeting as far back as January with the administrator to discuss any changes to the business plan and the changed financial position of the club. That meeting has still to take place, yet the administrator has once again held a gun to the council's head and said ' give us the money or the club gets it'! When the loan was agreed in August one of the conditions was that the club should be purchased for £7.66m. If this condition couldn't be met then the loan should be refused. There was scope for 'minor amendments' yet the club is now being purchased for a staggering £13.56m - I would contend anyone to argue that this massive increase in the purchase price is a minor amendment. Finally, the council is making massive cuts to services in this city, not least to childrens services and social care. In those circumstances is it too much to ask for some transparency and information before a loan of this size is authorised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Kirkup Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Robinson due to complete on Gady's old land tomorrow according to some on twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 There is no way the judge will see the club liquidated. He will give them it for 3 mil or less no doubt. Ah the point is it is not certain that they would be liquidated if the judge rules against the sale. Chinny just has to point out that he has reached agreement with the other bidder and should the PST bid not be successful due to the judges ruling he is sure the other bid can be rushed through in time to save pompey once the league realise that PST bid is dead in the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 interesting statement below from one of the dissenting councillors, all he wanted was the meeting they were promised with Birch. He makes it clear that the councillors were rushed into a vote and had no chance to ask about conditions that couldn't be met and why the price of the club had nearly doubled since the loan was requested. When the loan was agreed in August one of the conditions was that the club should be purchased for £7.66m. If this condition couldn't be met then the loan should be refused. There was scope for 'minor amendments' yet the club is now being purchased for a staggering £13.56m - I would contend anyone to argue that this massive increase in the purchase price is a minor amendment. In simple terms it just seems that pompey have ignored the PFA and their members, ignored the stipulations of the Football League about football creditor debt and the only way out is to divert the PP money from the football debts to the council. They just keep storing up problems for the future. I reckon they will be trading insolvently again by October. Cost of fan buyout - £13.56M Amount raised by fans - £1.3M I make that 10% ownership, less than Harris offered them for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 I'm not seeing PKF's fees of circa £2m-£2.5m, legal costs and disbursements (which must be pretty hefty by now) nor the mysterious Chinny £2m which PKF forgot about.£4m in bank will pay PKF and their lawyers. Kanu su[posedly came to an agreement and is part of the football creditors now. The £2m floating charge is another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsash saint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 John Ferrett's response to the decision: The Council Leader is once again given a platform by this paper for more Lib Dem propaganda. Note there is no counter-view, either in the article or video. One reason is that the News Editor has instructed his journalists not to seek quotes from myself as Leader of the Labour Group. This is what passes for a free press in Portsmouth. The opposition were given less than 24 hours notice of this meeting and no advance briefing of the papers before they went public. Furthermore, we had been promised a meeting as far back as January with the administrator to discuss any changes to the business plan and the changed financial position of the club. That meeting has still to take place, yet the administrator has once again held a gun to the council's head and said ' give us the money or the club gets it'! When the loan was agreed in August one of the conditions was that the club should be purchased for £7.66m. If this condition couldn't be met then the loan should be refused. There was scope for 'minor amendments' yet the club is now being purchased for a staggering £13.56m - I would contend anyone to argue that this massive increase in the purchase price is a minor amendment. Finally, the council is making massive cuts to services in this city, not least to childrens services and social care. In those circumstances is it too much to ask for some transparency and information before a loan of this size is authorised? So why did the loon vote in favour?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Kirkup Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 So why did the loon vote in favour?? It was only the cabinet that voted - all Lib Dems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 (edited) It was only the cabinet that voted - all Lib Dems. FFS....democracy rules OK.... The Cabinet is made up of 9 Lib Dem party appointed councillors out of a total of 42 councillors in total. Edited 27 February, 2013 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopGun Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 (edited) It was only the cabinet that voted - all Lib Dems. Nine councillors out of a total of 42. But it is an executive decision as to do with funds. Nevertheless, other councillors including Ferrett could have called for a wider council vote to back or oppose the executive decision to make a point. I presume there wasn't enough stomach for a civil war. Edited 27 February, 2013 by TopGun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Saint Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 If the judge doesn't wave through the PKF / PDT court case I will eat my own genitalia baked in a pie. Bake it with some cannabis in it too. We'll call it High Piddley-Eye Pie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 In simple terms it just seems that pompey have ignored the PFA and their members, ignored the stipulations of the Football League about football creditor debt Which goes back to my earlier question.....Why are the Football League giving endorsement to a prospective owner that intends breaking one of their own rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Bake it with some cannabis in it too. We'll call it High Piddley-Eye Pie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince Posted 27 February, 2013 Share Posted 27 February, 2013 Just been driving down the m27, it appears PCC have been making preparations Surely the "follow Moneyfields" bit should just be replaced with "turn around" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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