The Kraken Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 They said the other day that the difference between us and them is that they judge support by how vociferous and loud it is whilst we use attendance. Apparently if you look for the hashtag pompey fans after a game, it is filled with opposition fans saying how amazing they are. Laughable. They really are such a sad deluded lot. Some QPR fans said on their message board (after we played them at Loftus Road) that Saints were the best away fans there in years. Yet you don't see some crusade to say how wonderful we are and the best in the land. It's really quite pathetic that Pompey fans choose to do it (while glossing over the many teams who think they're quite ordinary) and quite sad how many choose to believe their own hype that they really are something special. I've been to Fratton twice this season, with a mate of mine as a scout, so have seen them from a neutral perspective. First game of the season against Bournemouth, fair play they made a decent racket for a lot of the game. I also saw them against Swindon and they got outsung by 1,500 away fans. The reality just doesn't match their own hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 [TABLE] [TR] [TD=bgcolor: #ffffff, align: left]Pompey_Fans_CF Posted on 11/12/2012 22:28 Request to the Trust - please can we have transparency?[/TD] [TD=bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right] Report Message | Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=bgcolor: #ffffff, colspan: 2][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=bgcolor: #ffffff][/TD] [TD=bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=bgcolor: #ffffff, colspan: 2, align: left]Your point is a valid one. The Trust is acting on the advice of our lawyers and also PKF that at the current time it would not be advisable to release any more than we have done into the public domain. It is not our (or my as 'trust spokesman') to keep anything out of the public domain any longer than is necessary. We hope to put more information into the public domain soon, but we are playing our cards close to our chest until at least the court case outcome. I can't promise more information will be there by Monday, but I can assure you that everyone involved in working on this project is doing so in good faith. We have been pleased with the share conversion rate so far and even more so by the 'rejection rate' (ie those who have asked for their £100 back) which the last time I heard was between 1 and 2 per cent (ie around 20 fans). In the event of a successful court outcome, we are anticipating a spike in conversions next week. The one thing we don't want is for people not to convert because they think there is no longer the urgency to do so. I know of several people who could comfortably afford £1000 but are finding all sorts of, largely apathetic, reasons not to do get involved. At the moment we simply need everyone who has pledged to convert and not so worry about how many have or haven't. If they all do so, the community will have done its bit and then some...[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 Quite remarkably, this is Corp Ho's take on the situation. Maybe in his absence from here he's found a modicum of common sense and reality. Or maybe our nutjob common sense has rubbed off on poor old Corpse. I don't think he's a Banker though..... Actually he's more than that. He actually owns a bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 The levels of delusion over on POL (which are usually sky high at the best of times) have rocketted into orbit following yesterday's shock revelations that the Football League intend to do what they said they'd do all along. Non-deluded translation: "It sounds like the consequences of the PDT taking over are that we'll no longer be able to incur massive debt (and not pay it back) and will only be allowed to spend similar amounts of money on wages and transfers to most other clubs in the division. This is thoroughly unacceptable to me." Non-deluded translation: I think the PDT should be allowed to progress even if it is proven that its business plan does not add up and that the PDT cannot reach their anticipated startup funding figures. This desire of mine does not change the fact that I will look to blame the Football League if I get my way and the PDT fails further down the line. Non-deluded translation:I truly believe the notion that we will be the first and biggest fan-owned club in the country. Swansea do not exist and never have, and there are no other fan-owned clubs anywhere in existence. Non-deluded translation: I can't read or understand league tables, let alone the concept of deducting 10 points from an existing total. Non-deluded translation: I would like for the PDT to receive our outstanding parachute payments in cash, but I would like to not pay the players (i.e. those who the parachute payments were designed for) and instead would like to use this cash to purchase our ground on the cheap. I feel this way of doing business is entirely fair, and I fail to see any irony in demanding parachute payments and refusing to use them in the manner for which they were intended. Non-deluded translation: Pompey are the biggest team in the world, and all other football clubs are either jealous of us or want to ride on our coat-tails of success. Although, in their defence, there are one or two enlightened souls down there. And to think fartoniser is going apoplectic trying to weed you out and ban you from POL. I can't think why. The article says 'Last remaining hurdle' The judges valuation is the last remaining hurdle for the PDT. True to form then. Not having enough money is not seen as a hurdle at that end of the M27. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 Jobs at risk under council cuts Up to 130 council posts are to be cut in Portsmouth as the local authority looks to save £17m over the next year. Doesn't look like they will be lending the PDT any of the Taxpayers hard earned money then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 Birch cranking up the 'Trust or bust' mantra... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20665933 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 And hoping that enough PST mug donations saves them investing too much of their own cash while retaining overall control with more than 50%. As I've seen it explained, they will always have control of the board (of the club that is, not the Trust) irrespective of shareholding split. The PST will have a MAXIMUM of 3 directors on the board and the HNWs will have a MIMIMUM of 3 directors on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 'When expensive lawyers go head-to-head they can throw all sorts of things into the argument. I think it will be a bit of a dust-up and do think they will be throwing mud at each other' BC can in theory bleed the Trust dry, he can go and appeal to ratchet up the costs further. The money in the bank and the administrators fees will be getting through the parachute money very quickly. i suspect TB will start to get a bit concerned as his fees may start to get more than the money left in the bank. i doubt he will be able to drop the court case as iBc draws it out and slowly the club bleeds to death. Perhaps he might pick up the phone to the people DP has spoken about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 I assume this is why the FL want to see them get the pledged money in the bank before allowing them (PST) to take over the club. Because if they do not raise more than 50% of the money surely those who have control (the property developers) would need to pass the FAPPT? Going from memory here, but I think I remember that anybody owning more than 10% has to take the test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 I was struck by the the FL condition that the trust can't take over "till they have raised the money from supporters that is in their business plan". This is worthy of a small cheer it seems to me So, dream scenario, they win the court case, but still can't take over till they've got as much pledge money in as they claimed they would. (Anyone remember what figure they gave in the plan?) That could take quite a while ... maybe till past the January transfer window? (if ever!) It's the gift that keeps on giving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 So they'll happily publicise the "rejection" rate but not the "success" rate... I wonder why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 So, dream scenario, they win the court case, but still can't take over till they've got as much pledge money in as they claimed they would. The best bit for me in that is that it puts things squarely at the fans' door. It's up to them. If they don't pay up, the club folds. No more blaming of others. Of course, if it were me, I wouldn't pay either, I would've supported a phoenix club months ago and avoided all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 I was struck by the the FL condition that the trust can't take over "till they have raised the money from supporters that is in their business plan". This is worthy of a small cheer it seems to me So, dream scenario, they win the court case, but still can't take over till they've got as much pledge money in as they claimed they would. (Anyone remember what figure they gave in the plan?) That could take quite a while ... maybe till past the January transfer window? (if ever!) It's the gift that keeps on giving. Their plan has a 75% conversion rate (IIRC). So, yep, my interpretation of the FL statement this week is that the PDT have to stick to that figure rather than attempt to make up any shortfall from 'other sources'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 The best bit for me in that is that it puts things squarely at the fans' door. It's up to them. If they don't pay up, the club folds. No more blaming of others. Of course, if it were me, I wouldn't pay either, I would've supported a phoenix club months ago and avoided all of this. Yeah, so would most of us....but, according to the Pompey intelligentsia, that's called "giving up" or "not trying"....like what us "scummers" did in 2009.... I've said it before, but I still don't get how trying to keep a terminally ill mongrel alive is somehow more noble than putting it to sleep and starting again with a pedigree puppy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 I feel sure that Chinney's lawyers will try to prove (from the off) that it is a property developer that is buying Fatpipes and the land, therefore it is not a PST bid at all ! (This must be the reason for non disclosure of the confirmed pledges so far!). As Trev has been playing up the 'Trust or Bust' card, surely competent lawyers should be able to attack that argument with ease ?? Once they have achieved this, the whole situation changes and the threat of liquidating the plucky bestest is no longer a heart-wrenching decision for the judge, it simply becomes a contest between one reptile and another ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 They have a plan to avoid another relegaton this season: There are more than 25 games to go and you find there might be one or two other clubs in financial trouble. Whispers are going about so there may be other clubs who have 10 points taken off. There is still every chance we can stay up. So at least they're not just sitting back and waiting for the inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 So here's a question... We know about Saints' own rise up the leagues in years gone by, and the likes of Watford and Wimbledon did it quite impressively too... but what's the quickest a team has been relegated down the leagues? Not expelled or kicked out, but actually passed through the divisions the other way? Irrespective of points deductions, I can't think of any other team who would've gone from Div 1 to Div 4 so quickly, if it does indeed happen to the bestest. Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 Birch cranking up the 'Trust or bust' mantra... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20665933 Except that his actual weasel words were: It is impossible at this stage to predict what will happen if we lose because there are so many variables My own prediction, for what it's worth, is that PKF will keep on collecting their fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 Another eloquent retort from the intellectual depths of the Portsmouth News comments section.... Blackwaterblue 10:17 AM on 12/12/2012 To all pompey fans who respond to saints fans on these postings. You have to rember that following Saints is boring: nothing ever happens. We are used to playing in all four divisions, playing against the whole world it seems at times, playing against our owners, going to Wembley every five minutes, in between sending out ships to protect the Country. The only thing to leave Southampton was the Titanic. So, just enjoy the hassle we have at the moment and win through. Feel sorry for the bored down the roud. PUP Yep, feel very very sorry for us.....life is so dull at the moment.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 Going from memory here, but I think I remember that anybody owning more than 10% has to take the test. Ahhh, yeh, that rings a bell now. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 Ahhh, yeh, that rings a bell now. Thanks. Has TCWTB sold off his mums bookshop and become a HNWCWTB then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 Jobs at risk under council cuts Up to 130 council posts are to be cut in Portsmouth as the local authority looks to save £17m over the next year. Doesn't look like they will be lending the PDT any of the Taxpayers hard earned money then What an utterly coincidental figure. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyinthesky Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 Another eloquent retort from the intellectual depths of the Portsmouth News comments section.... Yep, feel very very sorry for us.....life is so dull at the moment.... Quite. Forgetting the fact that the Canberra/QE2 sailings from southampton plus the regular shipments of equipment and munitions from Marchwood Military Port. Playing against the 'whole world'!!! One foray into European Competition, unless the regular externally financed trips to Gibraltar, USA, Spain are taken into account!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 So here's a question... We know about Saints' own rise up the leagues in years gone by, and the likes of Watford and Wimbledon did it quite impressively too... but what's the quickest a team has been relegated down the leagues? Not expelled or kicked out, but actually passed through the divisions the other way? Irrespective of points deductions, I can't think of any other team who would've gone from Div 1 to Div 4 so quickly, if it does indeed happen to the bestest. Anyone? Northampton Town in the 1960s must have been a hell of a ride. Rise and fall They played their only season of their existence in the top division of English football when they reached the First Division in 1965–66. Northampton had been promoted from the Fourth Division to the First Division in the space of five seasons but were then relegated back to the Fourth Division by 1969–70. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 I think it was Swansea who went from the 4th Divison upto the top and then back down again (I Think) in Successive seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 So here's a question... We know about Saints' own rise up the leagues in years gone by, and the likes of Watford and Wimbledon did it quite impressively too... but what's the quickest a team has been relegated down the leagues? Not expelled or kicked out, but actually passed through the divisions the other way? Irrespective of points deductions, I can't think of any other team who would've gone from Div 1 to Div 4 so quickly, if it does indeed happen to the bestest. Anyone? Didn't Swansea do it in the 80s? Luton had three relegations in three years as well, from the Championship to the Conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie Dunlop Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 Think Swansea done a rise and fall pretty quick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevvy Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/615187101?-11209:804 They are fearing the worse in the January sales, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 So here's a question... We know about Saints' own rise up the leagues in years gone by, and the likes of Watford and Wimbledon did it quite impressively too... but what's the quickest a team has been relegated down the leagues? Not expelled or kicked out, but actually passed through the divisions the other way? Irrespective of points deductions, I can't think of any other team who would've gone from Div 1 to Div 4 so quickly, if it does indeed happen to the bestest. Anyone? Man City went from PL or League 1 and back again in 6 seasons between 95/96 and 2000/1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 So here's a question... We know about Saints' own rise up the leagues in years gone by, and the likes of Watford and Wimbledon did it quite impressively too... but what's the quickest a team has been relegated down the leagues? Not expelled or kicked out, but actually passed through the divisions the other way? Irrespective of points deductions, I can't think of any other team who would've gone from Div 1 to Div 4 so quickly, if it does indeed happen to the bestest. Anyone? Look back 5-10 pages when it was originally asked for your answers ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 Micah my dear friend, the word you're looking for is "when" not "if"... Micah Hall @blueballoo2000 If we lose 10 points it would leave us needing 10 wins and 5 draws from 25 games. Why would we give up? Not the Pompey way to give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericofarabia Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 Didn't Wolves go thru the leagues like a dose of salts in the 80's? Possibly consecutive seasons which would be even better/worse than if Skatesmuff went down this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 Don't really want to make humour out of anyone who's got a family member in hospital, so no harm intended, but it did make me wonder what Ramirez's translator was saying to explain the situation to him... Edit: happy to delete this post if deemed not in the spirit of things but it does show there are more important things in life than football rivalry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanimal Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 OK, Hatch, Clapham Saint, Torres, Gemmell, Trousers, Joe K, and Steve G, are we all still up for meeting at the George pub on the Strand at say 12.45 ish on Friday lunchtime?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 OK, Hatch, Clapham Saint, Torres, Gemmell, Trousers, Joe K, and Steve G, are we all still up for meeting at the George pub on the Strand at say 12.45 ish on Friday lunchtime?? Alas, I'm having to work at home on Friday now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 OK, Hatch, Clapham Saint, Torres, Gemmell, Trousers, Joe K, and Steve G, are we all still up for meeting at the George pub on the Strand at say 12.45 ish on Friday lunchtime?? Yep - I will be there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 Sj Maskell @SjMaskell This seems to neglect the fact that Chainrai is not able to pass the 'owners and directors test' so can't buy #Pompeyhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20665933 … Isn't this just a myth perpetuated by PKF and Pompey? My understanding is/was that Chainrai/Portpin hadn't actually failed the Owners and Directors test, rather they had been advised that they were unlikely to pass it at that moment in time due to needing to satisfy the FL on a couple of outstanding points. Who's to say that they haven't subsequently addressed those points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 Look back 5-10 pages when it was originally asked for your answers ;-) Have you tried looking back through this thread for anything?!? It's nearly as hard as finding someone who gets it on POL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 Any bookmakers amoungst us; What are the odds on; Judge to allow sale below PDT 2.7 million valuation Judge to allow sale above valuation (Different odds for different amounts?) Judge to allow sale at valuation Judge to allow sale based on future profit share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 Another eloquent retort from the intellectual depths of the Portsmouth News comments section.... Yep, feel very very sorry for us.....life is so dull at the moment.... Going to Wembley every five minutes!!! The moron just doesnt get the fact that going to Wembley is why they are where they are. they bought the most expensive Ferrari in the showroom on tick when really they could only afford a Sinclair C5 with the wheels missing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 Sj Maskell @SjMaskell This seems to neglect the fact that Chainrai is not able to pass the 'owners and directors test' so can't buy #Pompeyhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20665933 … Isn't this just a myth perpetuated by PKF and Pompey? My understanding is/was that Chainrai/Portpin hadn't actually failed the Owners and Directors test, rather they had been advised that they were unlikely to pass it at that moment in time due to needing to satisfy the FL on a couple of outstanding points. Who's to say that they haven't subsequently addressed those points? Said the same a couple of weeks ago - I imagine passing him will rest on one point- Paying the football creditors. I can see the FL forcing him to deposit that money into an escrow account or signing over the pp money now. It all depends on how nasty Chinny wants to play. But if Chinny turns up waving a bit of paper that says he passed, that would change things somewhat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Jim Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 Didn't Wolves go thru the leagues like a dose of salts in the 80's? Possibly consecutive seasons which would be even better/worse than if Skatesmuff went down this season. Correct, consecutive seasons of relegation 84, 85 & 86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 Alas, I'm having to work at home on Friday now Want to ask for your deposit back too no doubt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 (edited) OK, Hatch, Clapham Saint, Torres, Gemmell, Trousers, Joe K, and Steve G, are we all still up for meeting at the George pub on the Strand at say 12.45 ish on Friday lunchtime?? Sorry nutjobs, I'll be in Bristol on Friday Edited 12 December, 2012 by Torres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 Said the same a couple of weeks ago - I imagine passing him will rest on one point- Paying the football creditors. I can see the FL forcing him to deposit that money into an escrow account or signing over the pp money now. It all depends on how nasty Chinny wants to play. But if Chinny turns up waving a bit of paper that says he passed, that would change things somewhat. And, of course, the Owners and Directors test is only relevant in relation to the transfer of the "golden share". It has absolutely no legal effect with respect to land rights, no bearing on the value of a vacant Fratton Park and no impact on the best interests of the creditors unless the continuance of the football club has a material positive effect on the likelihood of the creditors receiving some money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurricane163 Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 So here's a question... We know about Saints' own rise up the leagues in years gone by, and the likes of Watford and Wimbledon did it quite impressively too... but what's the quickest a team has been relegated down the leagues? Not expelled or kicked out, but actually passed through the divisions the other way? Irrespective of points deductions, I can't think of any other team who would've gone from Div 1 to Div 4 so quickly, if it does indeed happen to the bestest. Anyone? My guess would be the team of the moment. Bradford City!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurricane163 Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 I was struck by the the FL condition that the trust can't take over "till they have raised the money from supporters that is in their business plan". This is worthy of a small cheer it seems to me So, dream scenario, they win the court case, but still can't take over till they've got as much pledge money in as they claimed they would. (Anyone remember what figure they gave in the plan?) That could take quite a while ... maybe till past the January transfer window? (if ever!) It's the gift that keeps on giving. So PST have to come up with 75% conversion. But its better than that because with all those nasty scummas who pledged their £100 when they are removed the conversion rate is probably better than 80% Let the good times roll!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danbert Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 Any bookmakers amoungst us; What are the odds on; Judge to allow sale below PDT 2.7 million valuation Zil, I'd say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 Don't really want to make humour out of anyone who's got a family member in hospital, so no harm intended, but it did make me wonder what Ramirez's translator was saying to explain the situation to him... Edit: happy to delete this post if deemed not in the spirit of things but it does show there are more important things in life than football rivalry Este patín es la esperanza de recaudar dinero para una organización benéfica. Él no va a dejar que 'cuidar es su club para él. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 12 December, 2012 Share Posted 12 December, 2012 OK, Hatch, Clapham Saint, Torres, Gemmell, Trousers, Joe K, and Steve G, are we all still up for meeting at the George pub on the Strand at say 12.45 ish on Friday lunchtime?? I get the 341 from Waterloo every day which goes past there, so I may join you, for a laugh. Actually I may not as I will be busy, have plenty of work to do and I don't actually know you, but just to keep you on your toes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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