Pompey Takeover Saga

[Gemmel]

There is a meeting of the share conversion team on Tuesday and some of these issues are under discussion. We are in the process of calling everyone who has pledged to either thank them (if they have already converted) or get a feel for if and when they are going to convert. We feel this 'personal' touch is the best way to persuade rather than constant e-mail badgering, which is a blunt instrument to get people to act.

 

So they have put together a "Share conversion team" - I wonder why the would need that :scared:

 

As for settling out of court - Shouldn't be a problem - They just need 17 million quid and Chinny will walk away without a fuss.

 

Seriously though, that all sounds a little desperate from the PDT. I would assume that the lions share of any legal bills have already been incurred. The leg work will have already been done, the two days n court will be a samll percentage of the total costs. I suggest a few of them take a spare pair of boxers with them on the 14th.

 

My prediction is that it will be adjourned or delayed in someway. The pdt will position it as trust or bust and we know that nobody wants to take the sole responsibility for that sort of action.

[hutch]

Am I right in thinking that the Court case is about security rather than debt? If so then wouldn't the result be to move a portion of Portpin's debt from "secured" to "unsecured"?

 

If the portion is significantly large, causing a major change to the make-up of the creditor groups that voted on the previous CVA proposals, could that invalidate those proposals and require a new CVA vote? One in which Chainrai would control more than £20m of unsecured debt?

[Gemmel]

Of course the PST (or its developer partner) won't pay over the odds for a parcel of land worth at the very very most £3m. That's a factor the judge will be presented with - "value this land higher than its uppermost market worth and the club will fold, a club that incidentally is being taken over by its own community."

 

Portpin are having a valuation done at the moment and they have chosen a reputable valuer to carry out the work. Given the range of valuations thus far (between £0 and £2.5m) this company will have its reputation on the line if it suddenly produces a rogue high figure.

 

The PST bid has 5 valuations below the offer being made, has a top legal team, has PKF's top legal barristers - experts on the subject and has a community project on the line - the sort of project judges have precedent in favouring.

 

Portpin have 1 valuation (still to be known but which has that firm's reputation to uphold) a scribbled self valuation £7m crossed out and replaced with £10m and possibly hearsay that SAF would have paid their £1.2m a year rent.

 

In a football context I'd say the PST is 4-0 up and playing well with 10 mins to play

 

Seems we have it all wrong - Sounds like it is just a box ticking exercise, probably won't even need the second day.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Of course the PST (or its developer partner) won't pay over the odds for a parcel of land worth at the very very most £3m. That's a factor the judge will be presented with - "value this land higher than its uppermost market worth and the club will fold, a club that incidentally is being taken over by its own community."

 

Portpin are having a valuation done at the moment and they have chosen a reputable valuer to carry out the work. Given the range of valuations thus far (between £0 and £2.5m) this company will have its reputation on the line if it suddenly produces a rogue high figure.

 

The PST bid has 5 valuations below the offer being made, has a top legal team, has PKF's top legal barristers - experts on the subject and has a community project on the line - the sort of project judges have precedent in favouring.

 

Portpin have 1 valuation (still to be known but which has that firm's reputation to uphold) a scribbled self valuation £7m crossed out and replaced with £10m and possibly hearsay that SAF would have paid their £1.2m a year rent.

 

In a football context I'd say the PST is 4-0 up and playing well with 10 mins to play

 

Seems we have it all wrong - Sounds like it is just a box ticking exercise, probably won't even need the second day.

 

If this was the case then Chanrai would certainly have already settled. The love the bit where it says that previous valuations have been between £0 and £2.5m - lol some one of their expert valuers have valued Krap Nottarf at £0. I know it's a **** heap but even so I'd suggest it's worth at least a few hundred quid

[dubai_phil]

In a football context I'd say the PST is 4-0 up and playing well with 10 mins to play

 

Seems we have it all wrong - Sounds like it is just a box ticking exercise, probably won't even need the second day.

 

Oh that is good news then, I am so relieved for them after all that unpaid work and effort. It must be such a strain on their family lives as well.

 

4-0 up their 3 subs used, the keeper had just gone off with a broken leg, just had a penalty given against them and their CB who was in goal has been sent off for a professional foul and the opposition have just brought on Ronaldo & Messi and 8 minutes of Fergie time tobe added

[fanimal]

Imagine how desperate Farmery will be this time next week!Welcome to the really real world Colin.FP is worth £4M on a conservative investment basis only, even as it stands (i know its hard to believe!) then on top of that the fixed assets have some value, if only in scrap metal - all their pikey fans could have told them that for free!!

[Frank's cousin]

Maybe the down side of getting into bed with property developers is that Chinney may well point out that should they acquire FP for say 1.5 mil... what is to stop them moving to another site, getting planning permission for deveklopment and hey presto they are siting on land worth a darn site more than what they paid chinney for it?

 

No idea and this whole charge on the ground thing is too complex for me...

[derry]

Can somebody throw any light on this. It is absolute fact that Portpin have a charge of £17m on all the assets that is secured. What happens on two fronts 1) the League, saying they will only allow the club into the league if the carried forward charge is reduced but Portpin say no, the £17m charge stands. 2) PKF try to reduce the secured amount. Finally what happens at the court case if Portpin want to take possession of all the assets secured?

[Gemmel]

No idea and this whole charge on the ground thing is too complex for me...

 

Same for me Frank, although it is not necessarily the complexity, it is just the logic of it all.

 

Regardless of the fact it is the pdt, they do have a legal team and obvioulsy the full weight of the pkf resource, so we have to assume they do know what they are talking about and that there is a resonable chance of success. So following that through what they are ultimately asking for is;

 

A judge to wipe away over 16 million pounds worth of debt from an individual who doesn't want to sell (At that price anyway) to a property developer who is looking to utilise the same land for redevelopment and profit and that just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

If they were questioning the validity of the charge, that would be a completely different story (Although given micha halls articles, seemed to point out exactly when, where and how much chinny put in, so that I think they would struggle with that one) but ultimately the court will be asked to sanction something that will make one individual lose an incredible amount of money, so that another individual can make a profit. I just can't see the logic.

 

Also if the pdt want to do things at market rate, what is to stop Chinny keeping the ground and renting to the pdt at "Fair market rate"? There are lots of examples of outside ground ownership renting back to the team, so would be fairly easy to do.

 

Oh well, I am sure there will be some entertainment value in whatever happens.

[Gemmel]

The other consideration is that Chinny is a bit wound up and wants to win at any cost. He has been very quiet these last few weeks..... Whats to say that he hasn't agreed to all the stipulations by the FA, (That will ultimately tie him in knots), so that he walks into court with a bit of paper saying he has passed the FAPPT....... That would change everything.

[OldNick]

There is a meeting of the share conversion team on Tuesday and some of these issues are under discussion. We are in the process of calling everyone who has pledged to either thank them (if they have already converted) or get a feel for if and when they are going to convert. We feel this 'personal' touch is the best way to persuade rather than constant e-mail badgering, which is a blunt instrument to get people to act.

 

So they have put together a "Share conversion team" - I wonder why the would need that :scared:

 

As for settling out of court - Shouldn't be a problem - They just need 17 million quid and Chinny will walk away without a fuss.

 

Seriously though, that all sounds a little desperate from the PDT. I would assume that the lions share of any legal bills have already been incurred. The leg work will have already been done, the two days n court will be a samll percentage of the total costs. I suggest a few of them take a spare pair of boxers with them on the 14th.

 

My prediction is that it will be adjourned or delayed in someway. The pdt will position it as trust or bust and we know that nobody wants to take the sole responsibility for that sort of action.

So the conversion team will be knocking on peoples doors to ask why they haven't followed through on their pledges.It seems a bit like debt collectors to me and if anyone gets 10 TTWTB on their doorstep they may well sign a cheque pronto. Hey the Saints fans who have pledged will give them a shock (or visa versa) when that lot turn up. i do hope they havent given their correct addresses as it could be nasty.

[Clapham Saint]

There is a meeting of the share conversion team on Tuesday and some of these issues are under discussion. We are in the process of calling everyone who has pledged to either thank them (if they have already converted) or get a feel for if and when they are going to convert. We feel this 'personal' touch is the best way to persuade rather than constant e-mail badgering, which is a blunt instrument to get people to act.

 

So they have put together a "Share conversion team" - I wonder why the would need that :scared:

 

As for settling out of court - Shouldn't be a problem - They just need 17 million quid and Chinny will walk away without a fuss.

 

Seriously though, that all sounds a little desperate from the PDT. I would assume that the lions share of any legal bills have already been incurred. The leg work will have already been done, the two days n court will be a samll percentage of the total costs. I suggest a few of them take a spare pair of boxers with them on the 14th.

 

My prediction is that it will be adjourned or delayed in someway. The pdt will position it as trust or bust and we know that nobody wants to take the sole responsibility for that sort of action.

 

But surely with SO many fans having pledged, calling round to speak to every single one will take years.

 

Unless... oh.

[Ric]

Seems we have it all wrong - Sounds like it is just a box ticking exercise, probably won't even need the second day.

 

Seems fair enough to me. Makes you wonder why Farmery was in the paper suggesting they settle out of court.

 

Unless...

[Gemmel]

But surely with SO many fans having pledged, calling round to speak to every single one will take years.

 

Unless... oh.

 

Clapham - What is your take on the court case and likely outcome

[pedg]

When the land is valued if they are going to come up with a single figure I assume the people doing the valuation have to make assumptions about its use, e.g. a field for farming will be valued at less than the same field for houses. What's the betting that the trust have got all their valuations based on the assumption that the site will continue to be used as a football 'stadium' but that chainrai has got a valuation based on the redevelopment potential of the site?

[fromdayone]

When the land is valued if they are going to come up with a single figure I assume the people doing the valuation have to make assumptions about its use, e.g. a field for farming will be valued at less than the same field for houses. What's the betting that the trust have got all their valuations based on the assumption that the site will continue to be used as a football 'stadium' but that chainrai has got a valuation based on the redevelopment potential of the site?

 

I think that is a fair assumption to make.... It would only need Chinny to come up with a bullsh1t story on his plans to re-locate the skates to a purpose built fatpipe park to allow the commercial build to begin.

[Faz]

The amount of Chinnery's debt is irrelevant largely to these Court proceedings I believe. As Administrator PKF are effectively the owners of the land and can sell it if they choose to. Chinnery has a debenture to secure his debt, and is entitled to the sale proceeds up to the level of his debt. The court case is more about PKF setting a fair price for the land so that Chinnery has no comeback against them by claiming it was sold under value. Chinnery will still be owed what is left of his debt once the land is sold, just unsecured (or at least only secured by any remaining assets).

 

I'm not sure the Court can, or will, order that it be sold to the PDT.

 

What will be interesting is if once the Court agrees a value Chinnery offers more than that to buy it from the Administrator (don't know why he would, but he might if he perceives it has more value as a ransom strip than he pays the Administrator - which afterall is the whole concept behind the PDT).

[Ken Tone]

When the land is valued if they are going to come up with a single figure I assume the people doing the valuation have to make assumptions about its use, e.g. a field for farming will be valued at less than the same field for houses. What's the betting that the trust have got all their valuations based on the assumption that the site will continue to be used as a football 'stadium' but that chainrai has got a valuation based on the redevelopment potential of the site?

 

This .. and where it gets mesy is that the trust is using a property developer to buy the ground, whose motive is to ...err .... redevelop the site to make a profit

[Minsk]

[video=youtube_share;YBZgH1dJREY]

 

In this Farm Boy says it is PKF going to court against Chinny, in order to convince the judge that the fee the PDT want to pay for Fatpipes is in the best interests of the creditors. This immediately brings 2 questions to mind:

 

1. If it is PKF going to court why are the PDT worried about court costs?

 

2. How could Birch tell the judge this is in the best interest of the creditors when the primary creditor is in the same court saying the opposite?

[Clapham Saint]

In this Farm Boy says it is PKF going to court against Chinny, in order to convince the judge that the fee the PDT want to pay for Fatpipes is in the best interests of the creditors. This immediately brings 2 questions to mind:

 

1. If it is PKF going to court why are the PDT worried about court costs?

 

2. How could Birch tell the judge this is in the best interest of the creditors when the primary creditor is in the same court saying the opposite?

 

1) becuase the clubs court costs are paid from the funds left in the club which will leave less working capital behind for the PDT post transaction

 

2) because Birch has to act in the best interests of ALL creditors whilst Chinny will only be interested in one of them. The argument is probably that by doing the deal, the club continues to trade and the £price paid by the PDT and HNWI for the club will be split between all creditors (including Chinny). If the club ceases to trade and the land is sold with the club closed then all proceeds will go to Chinny leaving all other creditors worse off.

[mcjwills]

dear Nicola,

my club has a proud history of thieving charity cash, money-laundering, stealing from pensioners and war veterans, spending season ticket money on prostitutes, and using blood money from child-maiming to fund madly unsustainable growth.

We are currently trading insolvently while trying to con a court that we're not property developers, and if we succeed we will be shafting taxpayers, local businesses, and former players alike.

 

You may recall that we came round to your club and behaved like animals, don't forget that we also regularly insult the memory of your best friend by accusing him of being a Nazi, and we often spread malicious rumours about yourself, and the business.

 

We know that you have a thriving foundation that is doing great work and that all the clubs' efforts are concentrated on that, but we think you should make an exception for us, especially as we currently have the fewest organised criminals and loan sharks within our boardroom for a decade.

 

So give us money!

yours sincerely

random pompey fan.

 

Now would that not be the height of irony, a majority share ownership belonging to their arch rivals.

[Chez]

The amount of Chinnery's debt is irrelevant largely to these Court proceedings I believe. As Administrator PKF are effectively the owners of the land and can sell it if they choose to. Chinnery has a debenture to secure his debt, and is entitled to the sale proceeds up to the level of his debt. The court case is more about PKF setting a fair price for the land so that Chinnery has no comeback against them by claiming it was sold under value. Chinnery will still be owed what is left of his debt once the land is sold, just unsecured (or at least only secured by any remaining assets).

 

I'm not sure the Court can, or will, order that it be sold to the PDT.

 

What will be interesting is if once the Court agrees a value Chinnery offers more than that to buy it from the Administrator (don't know why he would, but he might if he perceives it has more value as a ransom strip than he pays the Administrator - which afterall is the whole concept behind the PDT).

 

very useful post indeed.

 

So all that will be discussed is what is market value for the land, nothing more, nothing less.

[Torres]

What's to stop the judge deciding that FP is worth £3m and PKF can sell it for that - PLUS a percentage of any future profits from selling or developing payable to Chinny.

 

That might put those altruistic members of the PDT in a bit of a bind...

Edited 4 December, 2012 by Torres

[Faz]

very useful post indeed.

 

So all that will be discussed is what is market value for the land, nothing more, nothing less.

 

I'm no expert, its just my reading of it. PKF have, for some reason, stated that the PDT offer will be put to the FL only if they own the land. All that I've read is about PKF/PDT establishing a value for the land. The Administrator is (as we know from past experience on this thread) quite powerful in thta he can choose whichever offer he deems to be in the best interest of the creditors. I guess his view is that to meet their longer term commitment under the CVA the PDT must have control of the Freehold. There is absolutely no reason for the football club not to continue if they don't own the land, but they have no control over the rent which Chinnery will set.

 

The PDT don't want to play that game because they forsee profit in the re-development. I guess the Court could set what they deem to be fair value and then make an order allowiing Chinnery a share of the profit on any development which would make life even more interesting. But now I'm straying even further outside my limited knowledge base.

 

Edit: Torres managed ot say the same thing in fewer words.

[bridge too far]

What's to stop the judge deciding that FP is worth £3m and PKF can sell it for that - PLUS a percentage of any future profits from selling or developing payable to Chinny.

 

That might put those altruistic members of the PDT in a bit of a bind...

 

It's called overage and it's a common practice

[Joe Kirkup]

I'm no expert' date=' its just my reading of it. PKF have, for some reason, stated that the PDT offer will be put to the FL only if they own the land. [/b']

 

Probably because without the land there will be no Property Developer interest and with no PD interest there would in fact be no bid.

[Chez]

What's to stop the judge deciding that FP is worth £3m and PKF can sell it for that - PLUS a percentage of any future profits from selling or developing payable to Chinny.

 

That might put those altruistic members of the PDT in a bit of a bind...

 

PKF have chosen the PDT to sell the club to, why would PKF sell the ground to Chinny thereby putting PDT off from buying the club?

[Doctoroncall]

So if fat pipes gets sold, how much of Chainrai's debt would need to be 'converted' to be able to acieve the 25% block on the new CVA, which Hutch has raised earlier, needs to be agreed with ALL unsecured creditors.

[Gemmel]

So if fat pipes gets sold, how much of Chainrai's debt would need to be 'converted' to be able to acieve the 25% block on the new CVA, which Hutch has raised earlier, needs to be agreed with ALL unsecured creditors.

 

Fag Packet Maths

 

Total debt was 59 million which included 18 million of secured debt with Chinny, leaving 41 million of unsecured.

 

If pdt get fat pipes for 2.7 million then 15 million gets added to the unsecured debt, giving a total of 56 unsecured and Chinny with 26% of the unsecured debt.

 

Which technically means he could do something, but these are just the figures that have been put out there (And change depending on which articles you read) but regardless, there is enough wriggle room to get chinny below 25%.

[Minsk]

1) becuase the clubs court costs are paid from the funds left in the club which will leave less working capital behind for the PDT post transaction

 

2) because Birch has to act in the best interests of ALL creditors whilst Chinny will only be interested in one of them. The argument is probably that by doing the deal, the club continues to trade and the £price paid by the PDT and HNWI for the club will be split between all creditors (including Chinny). If the club ceases to trade and the land is sold with the club closed then all proceeds will go to Chinny leaving all other creditors worse off.

 

Ah, I see. Cheers Clapham.

[Gemmel]

It's called overage and it's a common practice

 

That's an intresting thought to throw into the mix and given it is being sold to a property developer, one (That if Wiki's summary is corrcet) that could make a great deal of sense.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land-sale_overage

[Minsk]

What's to stop the judge deciding that FP is worth £3m and PKF can sell it for that - PLUS a percentage of any future profits from selling or developing payable to Chinny.

 

That might put those altruistic members of the PDT in a bit of a bind...

 

I think something like this is quite likely.

 

A highly amusing one would be: for the judge to agree the sale of Fatpipes for 2.5m but with a stipulation that ANY profit on any development of the land has to paid to Chinny up to a total value of his charge over it.

 

It would be very interesting to see if the property developers maintain their interest; whilst, at the same time, it would be within the valuation for the PST to be obliged to press ahead.

[hutch]

Fag Packet Maths

 

Total debt was 59 million which included 18 million of secured debt with Chinny, leaving 41 million of unsecured.

 

If pdt get fat pipes for 2.7 million then 15 million gets added to the unsecured debt, giving a total of 56 unsecured and Chinny with 26% of the unsecured debt.

 

Which technically means he could do something, but these are just the figures that have been put out there (And change depending on which articles you read) but regardless, there is enough wriggle room to get chinny below 25%.

Chinny also controls the £10.5m unsecured debt to CSI

[EastleighSoulBoy]

A bit low (if true) that the club did absolutely nothing for him, to be fair. Saints Foundation and the club have normally been pretty good in the past, even dealing with gift requests from other charities. Doesn't take much to just let him and get a picture or quick tour.

 

But then this is Neil Allen, who has a rather strange relationship with the truth when it comes to the south coast divide, bless him.

 

Talking of truth, often the victim, in the South coast divide. I had to go to the stenchy end of the M27 today for training to get my Personal Alcohol Licence.

 

The candidates came from a broad social spectrum, all employed by my employer. We met the tutor who explained his career and how he went from a 2/1 at

University to working in a bar for 7 years and then becoming a trainer. He seemed level headed and made the course fun and enjoyable. until we came to a

section about what circumstances would enable a Police force to suspend, as a temporary measure, the licences in a specific area. Basically it's down to if there

may be civil unrest or a possibility of it. He then cited a football match between two close rivals and gave them V us as an example.

 

Quote:

 

" The feeling always runs high at this fixture due to the FACT that they came down here in a docks strike and took our jobs."

 

I immediately set into spiel mode, telling him he was so so wrong, corrected his error and ended with "no wonder this city of yours

is referred to as PortsMYTH. Now where is the £160 odd million your club a stolen by not paying taxes, suppliers and charities? All recorded facts."

 

He asked me if I was sure so I told him the answer would not be found on POL and that he would have to search the net for the truth.

 

For some odd reason he seemed to not like me after that!

 

Maybe not fair on some of the bottom dwellers down there but you can see how even the supposedly bright ones are cretins and always ready to suck

up a good load of b0ll0cks about us Scummahs! :rolleyes:

[EastleighSoulBoy]

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/613656424?-11209:804

 

Clutching at straws me thinks, i think he will go to court,

 

Of course he will! He'll want halfway house, about £8m, I reckon and he'll even

be prepared to drive them into the ground over it rather than gift it to them.

[Toomer]

Talking of truth, often the victim, in the South coast divide. I had to go to the stenchy end of the M27 today for training to get my Personal Alcohol Licence.

 

The candidates came from a broad social spectrum, all employed by my employer. We met the tutor who explained his career and how he went from a 2/1 at

University to working in a bar for 7 years and then becoming a trainer. He seemed level headed and made the course fun and enjoyable. until we came to a

section about what circumstances would enable a Police force to suspend, as a temporary measure, the licences in a specific area. Basically it's down to if there

may be civil unrest or a possibility of it. He then cited a football match between two close rivals and gave them V us as an example.

 

Quote:

 

" The feeling always runs high at this fixture due to the FACT that they came down here in a docks strike and took our jobs."

 

I immediately set into spiel mode, telling him he was so so wrong, corrected his error and ended with "no wonder this city of yours

is referred to as PortsMYTH. Now where is the £160 odd million your club a stolen by not paying taxes, suppliers and charities? All recorded facts."

 

He asked me if I was sure so I told him the answer would not be found on POL and that he would have to search the net for the truth.

 

For some odd reason he seemed to not like me after that!

 

Maybe not fair on some of the bottom dwellers down there but you can see how even the supposedly bright ones are cretins and always ready to suck

up a good load of b0ll0cks about us Scummahs! :rolleyes:

 

I would have loved to have been in that room with you just to have put in to the fish monger.

[Sevvy]

Portsmouth Supporters' Trust (PST) would like to settle their dispute with Balram Chainrai's Portpin group over the control of Fratton Park out of court. The PST need to secure control of the ground to complete their takeover of the club.

 

However, with the court hearing due next week, there has been no contact between the two teams of lawyers and this does not bode well in terms of an out-of-court settlement.

 

The PST has budgeted for the court case, but a two day hearing in the High Court is necessarily going to be expensive.

[rallyboy]

The PDT can spin this as a rubber-stamping gig all they want, they're trying to convince themselves.

 

In previous court cases where they've been up to their tits in steaming pig's sh!t but come up smelling of roses, pompey have had Chinny on THEIR side....

 

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but he's more slippery than a greased-up slippery thing on St Slippy's Day.

So I'm sure he and AA have some good stuff up their sleeves - and even if Chinny loses the case, he'll probably just ignore the judgement and hold them to ransom! - either way, he won't be walking.

 

 

As for the Trust claims about a settlement.

Most lawyers always fancy their chances shortly before massive defeats.

Lawyers love taking high risks, at other people's expense!

It's like Birch, he drives the bus over yet another cliff but walks away and leaves others to sort out the wreckage.

 

So their legal advice is probably very encouraging, in fact, as very encouraging as the other sides'.

 

 

The nutjob feeling today seems to be towards some sort of additional payout to Chanrai on top of the base price - that could seriously derail the property developers who are blatantly trying to drive into ownership dressed as a fan buyout.

If the court decides that a significant future chunk should go to the loan shark it would reduce PDT profits, perhaps make the development unworkable, render the Trust deal even more underfunded, and derail the whole rickety house of cards.

 

And it's pretty rickety already.

 

Despite Farmboy's confidence, I'll be more open-mouthed than a Horton Heath masseur if Chanrai is consigned to pompey history before Christmas.

[Dark Munster]

 

The Share Conversion Team

[Winchester Red]

Whenever pompey in their many forms have gone to court in the past they have always been up against incompetence, and so they've always come up smelling of roses (rather than fish).

 

Not this time... Step forward Chinny

 

I'm secured. I will get my money

 

(needs to be recorded somewhere permanently, maybe a statue?.... or maybe just on their grave stone!)

Edited 4 December, 2012 by Winchester Red

[OldNick]

Whenever pompey in their many forms have gone to court in the past they have always been up against incompetence, and so they've always come up smelling of roses (rather than fish).

 

Not this time... Step forward Chinny

 

I'm secured. I will get my money

 

(needs to be recorded somewhere permanently, maybe a statue?.... or maybe just on their grave stone!)

i would not be so confident, Pompey will go to court and another dewey eyed judge will see the bunch of pickpockets and waifs standing in front of them like Oliver 'Please sir,can i have some more?' The judge will look down through his specs and feel sorry for this bunch of strays ,then look at that 'foreign type' who is here to just rip them off and feel kindly towards those poor souls who have been through so much. They will win IMO, yet against all logic but I believe it will happen

[rallyboy]

I think this case is quite different to previous ones.

 

There should be little emotion in this one, there's no pleading for the plucky club's life, this is just about a bit of land.

 

There will be a judge who probably doesn't even know what football is, he or she will be presented with valuations of a bit of land.

The result of their decision is of no interest to them, they just need to rule on a value.

 

If the Trust has done all their calculations on the land's value with a football club, then they have dropped a big clanger.

All potential uses and values will be considered before a value is set, and if the court wants to lean towards a middle ground figure then they should have offered £300K!

And the court doesn't care what their budget or funding is.

 

The only thing that matters is the commercial value of the ground.

 

Cross-eyed mudlarks pleading for yet another 'last chance' will be ignored on this occasion as they are irrelevant.

[Winchester Red]

i would not be so confident, Pompey will go to court and another dewey eyed judge will see the bunch of pickpockets and waifs standing in front of them like Oliver 'Please sir,can i have some more?' The judge will look down through his specs and feel sorry for this bunch of strays ,then look at that 'foreign type' who is here to just rip them off and feel kindly towards those poor souls who have been through so much. They will win IMO, yet against all logic but I believe it will happen

 

It is possible you'll be right, but at least we can be confident that there's no way that Chinny's barrister won't be pointing out in the clearest and firmest way possible that PDT is just another bunch of Property Developers hiding behind a phew fans.

 

The decision doesn't seem to be between letting some 'poor' community club go to the wall or not this time. It's between letting one bunch of property developers get one over on another (secured) one.

 

Edit - which is pretty much what RB has sneaked in above

[derry]

Isn't the reason this is going to court because PKF is worried about selling FP at a low figure and then having the pants sued off them by Portpin because of negligence?

[The Kraken]

Isn't the reason this is going to court because PKF is worried about selling FP at a low figure and then having the pants sued off them by Portpin because of negligence?

 

No. PKF can't just decide to "sell" Fratton Park for an arbitrarily low figure. Portpin hold a charge against the ground, and until the court decrees otherwise any offer to buy must meet their own valuation/agreement.

[derry]

No. PKF can't just decide to "sell" Fratton Park for an arbitrarily low figure. Portpin hold a charge against the ground, and until the court decrees otherwise any offer to buy must meet their own valuation/agreement.

 

Whose valuation? Surely there is a market value for development/housing because clearly the club don't have to play there to continue as a league team.

[Gruffalo]

Whose valuation? Surely there is a market value for development/housing because clearly the club don't have to play there to continue as a league team.

That's the nub..

 

The PDT will be relying on the fact that the council's 'covenant' precludes any other use for the land as long as the football club exists and they have not been re-housed. If the court accepts that, and refuses to see beyond that, then the value of the land will be relatively low (probably

 

But if there was no football club, then the council's restrictions on use would not apply and the value of the land for mixed use re-development would be significantly higher..

 

No doubt Team Chinny will be pressing Point 2 and bringing to the court's attention the little matter of the circling Property Developers and an alternative reasoning for their 'Fratton Park or bust' ultimatum..

[holepuncture]

i would not be so confident, Pompey will go to court and another dewey eyed judge will see the bunch of pickpockets and waifs standing in front of them like Oliver 'Please sir,can i have some more?' The judge will look down through his specs and feel sorry for this bunch of strays ,then look at that 'foreign type' who is here to just rip them off and feel kindly towards those poor souls who have been through so much. They will win IMO, yet against all logic but I believe it will happen

 

I have to say that of all the people involved in this sorry farrago the judges involved seem to have been consistently good at seeing through the bullshine and just applying what appears to be good old fashioned common sense to their judgements when it's so desperately needed. The legal profession tends to get a bit of a bashing so credit where credit's due and all that...

 

[holepuncture]

 

The Share Conversion Team

 

Corporate Ho has crumbled to the PDTs brutal campaign of threats and intimidation

 

Our pledge has just gone in. Sorry for the slight delay PST but it's in there now so you don't have to phone me

 

(...to think, Chinny taught them everything they know... and they repay him like this!)

[dubai_phil]

So, as long as nobody has been looking up information on the Sites of Special Scientific Interest, or traffic flow issues with regard to "The Docklands. And as long as they have not visited SMS on Maqtchdays to see Traffic Management systems in place, then clearly the Property Developers will be staying put at Nottarf and the PDT will make Oldnick even more miserable by winning.

 

Of course, IF the property Developers HAD been quietly doing research on alternative locations, and had been seen doing that, then it could rather undermine their whole case.

 

Just another string to Chinny's bow.

 

I wonder how those rare worms are getting on?