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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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bridge too far

bridge too far

Posted
Posted
Absolutely disgraceful comments from Appleton once again:

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/appleton-feels-for-departed-obita-1-4405340

 

See the final 'paragraph'.......

 

Completely and utterly deluded! They really believe they have a God given right to a full squad full of players that are on 5k + a week.

 

Whenever they get any money down there all they think about is "PLAYERS! SHORT TERM GAIN! MUST GET PROMOTED! MUST DO IT NOW! F*CK THE YOUTH! F*CK THE CREDITORS! MUST GET PLAYERS. MUST WIN LEAGUE."

 

Unbelieveable Jeff.

 

A comment from that article:

 

[h=4]ham_pfc[/h] 9:17 AM on 25/10/2012

 

Cillit - no one in League One is paying everyone in a squad £260k a year (£5k a week) so you are being negative & trying to stir things up. Plus at Pompey we attract better players for less due to our clubs standing, compared to say a Yeovil. If we get gates of 14-15k we will have plenty to build a decent squad within budget. Just need the whole city to get behind the lads every week at home, collections in pubs, fundraisers, etc.

 

:facepalm:

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
Absolutely disgraceful comments from Appleton once again:

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/appleton-feels-for-departed-obita-1-4405340

 

See the final 'paragraph'.......

 

That quote is worth repeating verbatim due to it's high facepalm value...

 

I would like to be in a position in the near future that if the Trust does come in - and I do get more money :lol: and can build a squad

 

As PES says so eloquently....

 

Morality does not come into it
Edited by trousers
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Ken Tone

Ken Tone

Posted
Posted
last post;

 

 

 

I usually avoid insults but please dont be an unrealistic sanctimonious knob Danbert. Thats how the morally bankrupt business world operates it is disgusting and covers a far wider forte than irresponsible football clubs. I support a football club, not a church group so save it. I regret what the crims did is all I or any other fan can offer and as scant consolation have seen the club embarressed and shooting down the leagues with penalty after penalty (all deserved), what would you suggest be done, how would what has transpired of been any different if Saints were in that situation, or palace or Leicester or any other team that has bankrupted itself through, gambling, stupidity or worse.

 

I can't answer any of that, i know far more about what goes on in your club than i do my own. I believe the intention is to have a CEO running the club, don't know the time frame and have yet to receive a prospectus or be asked for the £900 yet.

 

No, that would of made a business plan that (without knowing the details of) most ridicule on here as having no substance, even less likely to be workable, so how would you expect the PST to of acted realistically. C'mon I know you're not naive business-wise so why would you expect any business deal to pay anymore than it had to. Morality does not come into it.

 

You're missing the point, PES. Those creditors (you know, the ones from the administration before the last one) that are only going to receive 0.4% of their money did NOT agree to any CVA that gave them that little. They agreed to 20p in the pound. They have since been cheated out of even that little bit of their own money because your club still has not paid them one penny of what was promised, and now is proposing to pay them less than half a penny per pound. So a small local business owed say £10,000 for example will get only £40, whilst Appleton is, even now, paying £4000 a week to McLeod, after tax ... that will cost the club around £400,000 a year if you do actually pay the tax this time. God knows what you are paying the likes of Howard.

 

That is why you will have another -10 points deducted -- for breaking CVA promises again -- and that is why we think that is an inadequate punishment for doing so. Because you are still paying wages other clubs in L1 can't afford, and nor can you if you really intend to pay off any of your debts. But all we hear from PFC is whingeing about a small squad and misleading drivel about a small wage bill , and your apparent divine right 'to be competitive'.

 

Any normal business would have been liquidated years ago... don't quote business ethics at us. What you have been doing, and show signs of continuing to do, is morally wrong.

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)

And just when you thought Appy couldn't top the current levels of incredularity....along comes another gem...

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/appleton-mulling-over-loan-exits-1-4405343

 

Michael Appleton is weighing up sending out fringe players on loan in a bid to increase his squad options.

 

As it stands, Pompey are at the maximum 20-player limit imposed on them by the Football League for being in administration.

 

But Appleton is mulling over potentially shuffling his numbers in a bid to create space for more arrivals from other clubs.

 

That would mean loaning out those currently struggling to break in to the first team at present.

 

The result would see him allowed to strengthen his strikeforce, in particular.

 

He said: ‘Just for the balance of the squad we may have to loan players out to get loan players in for different positions.

 

‘Like we have done with replacing Jordan Obita with Carl (Dickinson) this week, except it might have to be our own players we loan out.

 

‘You have to worry about who needs games and who it is going to benefit.

 

‘It’s not just a matter of saying “you go and we’ll get him in”. There are a lot of players suffering from us doing well basically. :facepalm:

 

‘Certain players are staying in the team because they are doing well and they are keeping others out.’

Edited by trousers
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Danbert

Danbert

Posted
Posted
last post;

 

 

 

I usually avoid insults but please dont be an unrealistic sanctimonious knob Danbert. Thats how the morally bankrupt business world operates it is disgusting and covers a far wider forte than irresponsible football clubs. I support a football club, not a church group so save it. I regret what the crims did is all I or any other fan can offer and as scant consolation have seen the club embarressed and shooting down the leagues with penalty after penalty (all deserved), what would you suggest be done, how would what has transpired of been any different if Saints were in that situation, or palace or Leicester or any other team that has bankrupted itself through, gambling, stupidity or worse.

 

 

I can't answer any of that, i know far more about what goes on in your club than i do my own. I believe the intention is to have a CEO running the club, don't know the time frame and have yet to receive a prospectus or be asked for the £900 yet.

 

 

 

No, that would of made a business plan that (without knowing the details of) most ridicule on here as having no substance, even less likely to be workable, so how would you expect the PST to of acted realistically. C'mon I know you're not naive business-wise so why would you expect any business deal to pay anymore than it had to. Morality does not come into it.

 

As Ken one points about above, and as you seem to have forgotten, we were discussing the creditors from the first CVA. Sure they had an agreement, then Pompey shat on it and them. Then they got another even more derisory offer that, in all probability, also won't be honoured - but that's all right by you because the agreed to it.

 

When an agreement isn't honoured it becomes theft. You can't justify something by saying - well they agreed to it - if you don't honour your side of the agreement.

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Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
No, that would of made a business plan that (without knowing the details of) most ridicule on here as having no substance, even less likely to be workable, so how would you expect the PST to of acted realistically. C'mon I know you're not naive business-wise so why would you expect any business deal to pay anymore than it had to. Morality does not come into it.

 

With the exception of this statement, I agree by enlarge with what you said, however, a point you have continouisly ignored when it was raised before is this;

 

The pst first bid, reduced the football creditors agreed compromised payments from 8 million to 2.75. The new bid has suddenly come up with the full 8 million (Apparently) after they were sent home with a flea in thier ear and with the PFA restating all compromise agreements, must be paid in full. So we know that this extra six million wasn't generated through another new 6,000 pledges, which suggests (And there was actually a post on here - maybe from you, breaking everything down to show how the pst bid stacked up with a 8 million pound surplus) that what in fact the pst trust was looking to do, was to further rip off the football creditors to enable the trust to have another 6 million odd to spend on players and wages, that if they had honoured there debts (And bearing in mind the 8 million was already a greatly reduced total to what was originally owed) they simply couldn't have afforded. To all those other clubs who pay their debts and honour their commitments, they could be forgiven for thinking thats cheating.

 

It will take a long time for the football community (Not just Saints fans) to believe that things will ever change at pompey (Your current squad isn't helping - see other managers comments) and that first bid sugguests the new dawn, hasn't quite started yet.

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brightspark

brightspark

Posted
Posted

The guy is a walking moron. Loaning players out FFS! Those poor players not playing in the team.... they need game time! So we'll loan them out and replace them with BETTER players! Better than the ones currently in the team! Then we'll loan those players that are kicked out of the first team out too! AND REPLACE THEM WITH EVEN BETTER PLAYERS!

 

A vicious cycle.

 

Portsmouth remind me of the US Postal Cycling Team. Prepared to do ANYTHING THEY POSSIBLY CAN to get results. F*CK THE FUTURE, SHORT TERM GAIN!

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Ken Tone

Ken Tone

Posted
Posted
As Ken one points about above, and as you seem to have forgotten, we were discussing the creditors from the first CVA. Sure they had an agreement, then Pompey shat on it and them. Then they got another even more derisory offer that, in all probability, also won't be honoured - but that's all right by you because the agreed to it.

 

When an agreement isn't honoured it becomes theft. You can't justify something by saying - well they agreed to it - if you don't honour your side of the agreement.

 

It is even worse than that Danbert. The creditors previous CVA (which btw is not the first ..they've gone bust several times before this remember) had no vote in the latest CVA , which reduced their money. They did not even get the chance to not agree to this further reduction to 0.4 %. The vote was amongst the creditors of the latest administration.

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

Posted
Posted

I think the problem lies not only with the current Portsmouth manager and administrator (who seems to be sanctioning the current budget and Appleton's plans) but with the FL and the FA. Given the fact ages are being piad at a level unaffordable by most at that level at a time when NOTHING has yet been paid to creditors from either the last CVA or the current 58mil of debt, how on earth can that be morally justified? Please tell me...

 

The FL and teh FA should have looked at the situation and ringfenced any of the recent Parachute payments for creditors... not for Pompey to be 'competitive' in L1... that is the upshot of it. Everyone else in this situation has played the youth no matter what it meant from a competitive or league status perspective. What fecked up idiotic logic are Appleton and fans who feel the same as he does using to justify that position, and whats worse is why are the authorities allowing this to happen... the same authjorities most fans blame for the mess of the clubs own making... truely, this is why Appletons plans are so dispicable and why he he has shown he has absolutely no integrity or moral values whatsoever - it it ****in shameful PES and you know it.

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Chopper71

Chopper71

Posted
Posted
I think the problem lies not only with the current Portsmouth manager and administrator (who seems to be sanctioning the current budget and Appleton's plans) but with the FL and the FA. Given the fact ages are being piad at a level unaffordable by most at that level at a time when NOTHING has yet been paid to creditors from either the last CVA or the current 58mil of debt, how on earth can that be morally justified? Please tell me...

 

The FL and teh FA should have looked at the situation and ringfenced any of the recent Parachute payments for creditors... not for Pompey to be 'competitive' in L1... that is the upshot of it. Everyone else in this situation has played the youth no matter what it meant from a competitive or league status perspective. What fecked up idiotic logic are Appleton and fans who feel the same as he does using to justify that position, and whats worse is why are the authorities allowing this to happen... the same authjorities most fans blame for the mess of the clubs own making... truely, this is why Appletons plans are so dispicable and why he he has shown he has absolutely no integrity or moral values whatsoever - it it ****in shameful PES and you know it.

 

On the plus side though, the sick mans plan can only work if there is a club out there willing to take those players on loan. I suspect that a few might be put off by their wages (but I suppose Pompey could promise to pay them and some point in the future yet to be derermined).

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
No, that would of made a business plan that (without knowing the details of) most ridicule on here as having no substance, even less likely to be workable, so how would you expect the PST to of acted realistically. C'mon I know you're not naive business-wise so why would you expect any business deal to pay anymore than it had to. Morality does not come into it.

Fair point. I think what annoys me is hearing from Pompey fans that they will ensure creditors get paid what they are owed, obviously attacking Chinny's record of paying creditors in the past. But when it comes down to it the PST will (hopefully) ensure the creditors get paid 0.4% of what they were originally owed.

 

You are right, no one else would have done any different, I'm just an idealist.

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Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
Fair point. I think what annoys me is hearing from Pompey fans that they will ensure creditors get paid what they are owed, obviously attacking Chinny's record of paying creditors in the past. But when it comes down to it the PST will (hopefully) ensure the creditors get paid 0.4% of what they were originally owed.

 

You are right, no one else would have done any different, I'm just an idealist.

 

Its not a fair point Frank. The PST like all those before, submitted a business planand propsal, that would further shaft the football creditors who had already walked away from huge amounts of money to save the club....... Leaving the pst with a wedge of cash to spend on players and wages, that they wouldn't have been abe to afford, had they honoured their debts.

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
As PES has only been following them since 1992, he can't remember all of the previous financial meltdowns, only the last three or four!

 

The good thing about the trust taking over is that when they go bust again it will be the fans money that is lost, and not the local businesses.

I'd of thought by having fans as the front of the club, as the PST effectively are, with property developers being the real owners in all sense and purposes, local businesses are more likely to do work on tick, which might end up with them getting turned over again down the line.

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Depressed of Shirley

Depressed of Shirley

Posted
Posted
I'd of thought by having fans as the front of the club, as the PST effectively are, with property developers being the real owners in all sense and purposes, local businesses are more likely to do work on tick, which might end up with them getting turned over again down the line.

 

True, but to be honest if anyone does anything for that shower in the future without being paid up front in cash, they deserve all they get.

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
Its not a fair point Frank. The PST like all those before, submitted a business plan and propsal, that would further shaft the football creditors who had already walked away from huge amounts of money to save the club....... Leaving the pst with a wedge of cash to spend on players and wages, that they wouldn't have been able to afford, had they honoured their debts.

 

You've got me there. I thought there was a £5.25m difference that was made up by the property loans rather than there be £5.25m surplus for the PST to splurge on players.

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Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted (edited)
You've got me there. I thought there was a £5.25m difference that was made up by the property loans rather than there be £5.25m surplus for the PST to splurge on players.

 

How can they get a property loan for over 5 milllion if the ground is only worth 2 :) :)

Edited by Gemmel
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Saint Lindford

Saint Lindford

Posted
Posted
You've got me there. I thought there was a £5.25m difference that was made up by the property loans rather than there be £5.25m surplus for the PST to splurge on players.

 

The PST business plan that was quoted for the PCC loan stated that there will be a provision of £350,000 for player purchase and any further costs would have to come from player sales. It also stated that the average salary would be £2,240 per week........ ummm long way off that atm.

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hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted

Simple solution would be to insist they have an "instant recall" clause in any agreement to loan players out.

 

Then if they ask for permission to bring any players in on loan, the answer is "sure, just recall your own loan players first, then give us a call"

 

Play them at their own game. "Any rule you can bend I can bend further"

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Big Bad Bob

Big Bad Bob

Posted
Posted
Simple solution would be to insist they have an "instant recall" clause in any agreement to loan players out.

 

Then if they ask for permission to bring any players in on loan, the answer is "sure, just recall your own loan players first, then give us a call"

 

Play them at their own game. "Any rule you can bend I can bend further"

 

Football league regs state you cannot recall a player within a month of a short term/emergency loan

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mack rill

mack rill

Posted
Posted
how the fuk can they send players out on loan in order to BRING MORE IN...whilst having no owner, being run by an administrator and generally owing a fuk load of money...

 

how on earth is that possible..?

 

cos wer special down hear on Pikey island. How many times do we have to feckin tell you this Talc boy before it sinks (like your boat) in!:D

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted

I see the Pompey intelligentsia are out in force tonight...

 

@pn_neil_allen: Essential viewing on BBC Question Time tonight. Obsessive expert on all things #Pompey and occasional Southampton fan @markjlittlewood on.

 

@SOSPompey: Who's this tosser Mark Littlewood?

 

@pn_neil_allen: @SOSPompey Well he's always got a wildly-inaccurate opinion on Pompey and none on his own football team.

 

@SOSPompey: @pn_neil_allen why is he on Question Time?

 

@jayr1972: @SOSPompey @pn_neil_allen tonights topic is tedious scummer ****s

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)

@MarkJLittlewood: @BileysMullet @bbcquestiontime nice pic. I shall do my best to ask for an end to cheating, tax avoiding football clubs.

 

@BileysMullet: @MarkJLittlewood as opposed to mortgage avoiding clubs such as your own. Any more off shore loans for your club this month :-)

 

@MarkJLittlewood: @BileysMullet sure hope so. Loans are fine. Writing off £150m at the cost of local charities and biz is just horrific. Disgusting stuff.

 

:lol:

Edited by trousers
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Lazlo78

Lazlo78

Posted
Posted
... (And there was actually a post on here - maybe from you, breaking everything down to show how the pst bid stacked up with a 8 million pound surplus) that what in fact the pst trust was looking to do, was to further rip off the football creditors to enable the trust to have another 6 million odd to spend on players and wages, that if they had honoured there debts (And bearing in mind the 8 million was already a greatly reduced total to what was originally owed) they simply couldn't have afforded...

 

You rang? :)

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?14620-Pompey-Takeover-Saga&p=1428275#post1428275

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Torres

Torres

Posted
Posted
British clubs with home ownership

 

Portsmouth League One

 

If Pompey Supporters' Trust succeeds in its efforts to take over the club, Portsmouth will become the fourth Football League club to be owned mutually by democratic fans' trusts, formed with the help of the main body, Supporters Direct

 

Exeter City League Two

 

The Devon club are in their 10th season since their supporters' trust took the club from the brink of ruin and the Conference after mismanagement by two businessmen with no previous connection to Exeter City

 

AFC Wimbledon League Two

 

Started in 2002 by the overwhelming majority of fans who refused to accept the transfer of the old Wimbledon to become MK Dons

 

Wycombe Wanderers League Two

 

Have been majority owned by their supporters' trust since 29 June this year, when the trust bought the club from the businessman Steve Hayes

 

… and in the top flight Swansea City

 

The Swans are 20% owned by their supporters' trust and have an elected director, Huw Cooze, on the board

 

I always thought David Conn knew his stuff, but what's this bullcrap? We all know that the PST are blazing a trail and doing something that nobody has ever done before, right?

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hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted

Tucked away in "The Midhurst & Petworth Observer"

 

A playing budget (£2.65m) has been mentioned. I want to see that budget in writing!

 

To have the budget they have mentioned would be fantastic from my point of view.

 

It would give us more chance to bring more quality in and get us as high in the league as we possibly can.

Best leave the sums to somebody else, eh Appy. That's about £1,600 a week average take home for a first team squad of 20. It's a lot less than you're paying now.

 

 

 

* based on 90% of budget going to first team players and 30% total decuctions for PAYE & NI

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Ken Tone

Ken Tone

Posted
Posted
Tucked away in "The Midhurst & Petworth Observer"

 

 

Best leave the sums to somebody else, eh Appy. That's about £1,600 a week average take home for a first team squad of 20. It's a lot less than you're paying now.

 

 

 

* based on 90% of budget going to first team players and 30% total decuctions for PAYE & NI

 

Schoolboy error you've made there! ---- Pay tax?

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted

Man management Appy style...

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-skipper-told-to-change-his-ways-1-4411806

 

Brian Howard has been warned he must change his game.

‘For someone who is probably considered more of a ball player rather than a ball-winning midfield player, it is a little bit surprising and something we need to discuss.‘Dare I say it is the Paul Scholes scenario, who has picked up more bookings than he probably should in his career.

‘I am not saying Brian has the level of ability of Paul Scholes – far from it.

‘But what I am saying is he is a creative midfield player and, obviously, tackling is not his strong point.

‘Sometimes you have got to be patient and stay on your feet and not go to ground.

‘Brian has probably been guilty of going to ground a little bit too much.’

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted

 

Chriskiy25 October 2012 5:26PM

I'd love to see this happen and for the supporters' trust to make a success of it. I'm a Saints fan, but I've been in Fratton Park more than once cheering on Pompey. I want Saints always to be a division above Pompey, naturally enough, but at the same time I don't want Pompey to disappear. Good luck to the supporters' trust.

:scared:
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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted

 

unkdysfunky26 October 2012 7:45AM

The usually very vocal Southampton fans seem to be quite quiet on a blog about Pompey for once. I seem to remember a fair few on previous Pompey blogs banging on about how our supporters trust had struggled to raise any money and that we where wasting our time. Then again they may well be more worried about their own finances at the moment, what with a big loan from a Virgin islands based company, programme sellers being sacked and building work stopping due to non payment, they may for once have their own problems that are out of their own control. I look forward to people taking the moral high ground against them after their relegation and financial implosion.

:facepalm:
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Big Bad Bob

Big Bad Bob

Posted
Posted

 

Mr LostTransportation seems to have set himself up as the resident expert.

 

Shame he can't acknowledge that everything Micah Hall wrote has been "exposed" by the NutJobs on here well before Micah put finger to keyboard.

 

And where is this "wriggle room" that the FL have with the 10pt deduction when/if they come out of admin?

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted

 

LostTransportation26 October 2012 8:33AM

Yes, well done re understanding that the first CVA gets further reduced. You do realise that agreement along with Portpin and Andronikou are being investigated by Baker Tilly on behalf of HMRC as part of the overall investigation into potential criminal activity? What does it say about an administrator who agrees a CVA that fails? Unlucky? Incompetent? Or worse?Oh and its not "will" receive a ten points penalty for leaving administration but "may" - there is wiggle room for the FL in this.

As mentioned above, the wage bill is paid out of season ticket sales. No further costs are being incurred by PKF as they look to sell a going concern as that maximises payments to creditors.:suspicious: The manager is working with a 20 player squad as per the transfer embargo restrictions applied on clubs in administration. Nothing is against the FL rules. Its only the rantings of the paranoid neighbours (who frankly have their own problems to worry about) that this rubbish gets spouted about.

...
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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
And where is this "wriggle room" that the FL have with the 10pt deduction when/if they come out of admin?

 

I'm guessing their train of thought is that they've managed to squirm their way out of proper punishment for so long that there's a possibility the Football League will lose their bottle yet again....he may have a point!

 

That said, the fact that Mr Hall's blog has supposedly "blown the lid on the dodgy dealings of previous owners" that has actually given the football league more evidence with which to retrospectively punish them some more...in theory...

Edited by trousers
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Big Bad Bob

Big Bad Bob

Posted
Posted
I'm guessing their train of thought is that they've managed to squirm their way out of proper punishment for so long that there's a possibility the Football League will lose their bottle yet again....he may have a point!

 

Can some post a link to this http://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/portsmouth/fb_news.php?storyid=18436

 

I don't really want to sign up for a Guardian account..

 

Maybe put it under the title, "time to expose the proper Pompey history of shysters, liquidation and wide boys"

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