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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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Guan 2.0

Guan 2.0

Posted
Posted
It's at times like this I wish I hadn't blown my cover on POL. Must be hilarious over there at the moment.

 

Frattoniser and co must be apopleptic with rage by now. They've spent so long trying to convince everyone, in the face of all common sense, that the £167,000 of pledged money that they have in the bank was enough to buy and run a football club, that they'd really started to believe it themselves.

 

Reading the quotes from POL reminds me of the delusions of 'El Supremo' in C.S. Forester's 'The Happy Return' (well worth a read, btw).

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Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted

Well they don't seem to be taking the news to well down the road.

 

They can't seem to get past the fact that although the trust had no money, couldn't gurantee the football debts and were dependant on a property developer to buy the only real asset, that the bid wasn't actually that good.

 

Oh well - As Trousers said another lost two years to look forward to.

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted (edited)
Can anyone remind me please btw? I am trying to remember how many times they have been in administration, in total, as opposed to just recently?

 

5

 

1998, 2010, 2012

 

When were the others? In the 70's and 80's?

 

It is hard to find a Pompey fan that can explain the differences...

 

- Currently Portsmouth Football club is legally in administration and Pompey's parent company is also currently legally in administration.

- Southampton Football club has never legally been in administration, Saints' parent company was legally in administration in 2009.

Edited by Matthew Le God
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Pamplemousse

Pamplemousse

Posted
Posted

Poll on POL: Would you stop going to Fratton Park?

 

 

I'm a season ticket holder, and I'll keep going 8 vote(s) 13.1%

I'm a season ticket holder, and I'll be asking for my money back 12 vote(s) 19.7%

I pay match by match, and I'll keep going 9 vote(s) 14.8%

I pay match by match, and I'll stop going. 32 vote(s) 52.5%

 

 

And here is a quote by PompeyScot

 

I've stated quite openly, and stick by it, if Portpin do take over then I won't be at Fratton for the length of their ownership

 

And some more from POL. They're not happy :lol: :lol:

 

Thats it for me. Havent been this season so far and I think that I would rather go to see them that cant be named rather than see any of my hard earned cash find its way to 'his' pocket

 

there's no way I'm giving those shysters any of my hard earned. It's a shame, but that's how much I detest their presence at the club I love.

 

I stopped going 2 seasons ago, apart from the home games against Bristol City and Middlesbrough last season when the 'Pack the Park' initiative was going.

 

Was going to take my 4year old to his 1st game this season. Have told him we probably wont be going at all today,and now he hates me even more.

 

I will not spend any additional money with the club until Portpin are gone - no shirts, trinkets, programmes or catering. It's only a gesture I know.

 

will stop going again.

 

1. Because I will not pay these **** to continue the rape of my football club

2. Because I dont wish to get a banning order.

 

Looks like the few are about to get even fewer. Of course, this Portpin hatred is being led on POL by none other than "Scumfinder General" himself Fartoniser, who STILL, despite his claims of knowing who we all are, has yet to discover my identity. He even replied to one of my posts over the weekend :lol: :lol:

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Ric

Ric

Posted
Posted
Poll on POL: Would you stop going to Fratton Park?

 

 

I'm a season ticket holder, and I'll keep going 8 vote(s) 13.1%

I'm a season ticket holder, and I'll be asking for my money back 12 vote(s) 19.7%

I pay match by match, and I'll keep going 9 vote(s) 14.8%

I pay match by match, and I'll stop going. 32 vote(s) 52.5%

 

Wow. A whole 61 votes. There are that many POL users left? :lol:

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted
"Was going to take my 4year old to his 1st game this season. Have told him we probably wont be going at all today,and now he hates me even more."

 

Maybe but not as much as he would have when he gets older and sees what Saints are doing - Then he would really have hated you. :lol:

 

I was going to suggest that dad takes little nipper along the M27 to make his first game a Premiership one, as a special treat. He can dress it up as going to watch his Skate hero James Ward-Prowse and to see where his other Skate hero Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain began his professional career. If dad truly loves his son, he'd surely make that little sacrifice to make him happy, wouldn't he?

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
It's at times like this I wish I hadn't blown my cover on POL. Must be hilarious over there at the moment.

 

Frattoniser and co must be apopleptic with rage by now. They've spent so long trying to convince everyone, in the face of all common sense, that the £167,000 of pledged money that they have in the bank was enough to buy and run a football club, that they'd really started to believe it themselves.

 

I'm sure agents Pamplemousse and Kraken will be more than happy to copy and paste the most hilarious POL posts here. That would kill two fish with one stone: give us nutjobs even more laughs, and make fartoniser's head explode.

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted

@solentsport: #pompey Balram Chainrai has dismissed the Portsmouth Supporters Trust bid for the club as having "no substance".

 

@solentsport: Chanrai also said his firm Portpin was the only bidder for the club with the "experience and money needed to return #pompey to its glories".

 

@solentsport: Chanrai also said his firm Portpin was the only bidder for the club with the "experience and money needed to return #pompey to its glories".

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
BBC Solent Sport ‏@solentsport

Chainrai also told BBC- bid from the Pompey Supporters' Trust would fail because of "infighting" and a lack of "actual money".

 

Does he read this thread I wonder.

 

It is ALL the Fartonisers fault.

 

He allowed the infighting

He stifled the debate

He killed the Trust Bid

 

He should be awarded TSW PTS Legend status

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Picard

Picard

Posted
Posted

mattslaterbbc

..Chainrai in particularly brazen/bullish mood. All spelled out in story. Will explain where he's still vulnerable later #Pompey @mattslaterbbc 15 minutes ago

 

 

Spent y'day catching up with events at #Pompey - story on BBC site soon. Sorry 2 say it's grim reading 4 PST but all's not lost... @mattslaterbbc 17 minutes ago

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted

 

The rules say a potential buyer would be disqualified from the test if they have been a club director of ‘one football club that has been subject to or suffered two unconnected insolvency events, on or after June 11, 2004.’

 

‘The rules are open to interpretation – but we at least think there’s a legal case to answer.’

 

Don't think there is much interpretation to be had really. Either he was a director each time or he was not. Attempted straw clutching I think.

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted

Rallyboy asked if anyone still thought they had got away with it?

I still do, they have had little pain compared to the glories they stole. Ho0w many really bad days have they had? 1 and a half seasons. Even in the CCC they had some good players and had a chance. They had 5 years at least of watching success and quality players, cup final appearances etc. If Bc comes backthey are safe and from there you never know what may happen, although if he keeps to spend what you earn they may suffer quite a bit more.

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Torres

Torres

Posted
Posted

Sooooo, Portpin given preferred bidder status by PKF and the legalities of finalising the deal commence, all of which takes time. Time charged at £9000 per day.

 

All progresses nicely until the final hurdle, the FPPT. For the first time in history, someone actually fails it. Much outcry from Chinny and PKF, but to no avail. PKF are 'forced' to begin the search for a new buyer again.

 

At £9000 per day.

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Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
Sooooo, Portpin given preferred bidder status by PKF and the legalities of finalising the deal commence, all of which takes time. Time charged at £9000 per day.

 

All progresses nicely until the final hurdle, the FPPT. For the first time in history, someone actually fails it. Much outcry from Chinny and PKF, but to no avail. PKF are "

'forced' to begin the search for a new buyer again.

 

At £9000 per day.

 

Can't see it Torres. If you think back to the conditions of the golden share and how much debt could be taken over etc., that was clearly aimed at Portpin, basically saying they could take over on these conditions............ He's already passed in my opinion.

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted

Bit confused (as ever).

 

Chainrai currently claims £14 million debt.

 

FL say he cannot carry more than £5 million (or so) into a new club post admin.

 

Chainrai's statement goes on about 'partial debt to equity' so does that mean he would say end up with a debt of £5 million and shares in the new club to the value of £9 million? If so as he would own the club outright does it matter what value the shares would be?

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SaintRichmond

SaintRichmond

Posted
Posted
Sooooo, Portpin given preferred bidder status by PKF and the legalities of finalising the deal commence, all of which takes time. Time charged at £9000 per day.

 

All progresses nicely until the final hurdle, the FPPT. For the first time in history, someone actually fails it. Much outcry from Chinny and PKF, but to no avail. PKF are "

'forced' to begin the search for a new buyer again.

 

At £9000 per day.

 

I don't think you'll get good odds on that from Bet Fred

 

The FL will leave no stone unturned in ensuring they keep going as they are

 

The FL are too stupid to see the logic of them calling "time" and starting again, as a LEGAL Club

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted

Matt Slater ‏@mattslaterbbc ..Chainrai in particularly brazen/bullish mood. All spelled out in story. Will explain where he's still vulnerable later #Pompey 1h

 

 

Matt Slater ‏@mattslaterbbc

 

Spent y'day catching up with events at #Pompey - story on BBC site soon. Sorry 2 say it's grim reading 4 PST but all's not lost...

 

 

 

 

 

We wait with baited breath Matty boy

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saint si

saint si

Posted
Posted

There is some interesting and deliberately broad language about who the Owners & Directors test applies to ... "Persons exercising “control” over the Club "

 

http://www.football-league.co.uk/staticFiles/0/8c/0,,10794~166912,00.pdf

 

Chainrai put them in to admin the first time round, in 2010 - that's not in doubt: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/9121791.stm

Balram Chainrai, a Hong Kong-based businessman, became Pompey's fourth owner inside a year when he assumed control of the club in February 2010 before putting them in administration soon afte

 

So I guess the question is whether Chainrai had any "control" at the time of the 2012 administration (or indeed the CSI administration which also qualifies as an "insolvency event"? It sounds like CSI never paid him a penny, and given that he was trying to bring AA in to undertake the administration process, he was perhaps (indirectly?) involved in the act of entering administration.

 

So i'm idly speculating, and i can't quite remember the sequence of events back in February, but this has the potential to run on...

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Ken Tone

Ken Tone

Posted
Posted
Bit confused (as ever).

 

Chainrai currently claims £14 million debt.

 

FL say he cannot carry more than £5 million (or so) into a new club post admin.

 

Chainrai's statement goes on about 'partial debt to equity' so does that mean he would say end up with a debt of £5 million and shares in the new club to the value of £9 million? If so as he would own the club outright does it matter what value the shares would be?

 

 

My view .... he's given up on getting his £14 (18?) million back straight away. That was scuppered by the FL limitingthe amot of debt that can be carried forward. so he plans to carry forward as much as allowed ..£5 million.. which is more than he'd get from the trust for his claim on Fratton Park. He then is forced to turn the rest of his debt into equity, but ends up with the club ,the ground and still being owed £5 million. Since he is the main creditor apart from the football ones, and their debt can be covered by the remaining parachute money, it will only actually cost him about £500,000 net, to buy the club

 

 

He then plans to get as much as he can from the situation, bleeding what is left of the corpse drier still, or if he can, ideally selling the club as such to the trust and renting the ground to them for c £ 1 million a year. This gives him a better return on his money than any interest from a bank etc, and he still has the £5 million debt, and FP.

 

If it doesn't work, plan B if/when the club goes bust again, is to build on Fratton park, and get some money that way. He wouldn't make £18 million, but it is damage limitation for him.

 

Whatever happens he is better off than just accepting £2.75 million from the trust.

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stevegrant

stevegrant

Posted
Posted
Don't think there is much interpretation to be had really. Either he was a director each time or he was not. Attempted straw clutching I think.

To be fair to them, the FL rules about what constitutes somebody who is required to take the Owners and Directors Test also includes "a person who exercises or is able, legally or beneficially, to exercise Control over the affairs of the Club". Depending on your interpretation of how Chainrai/Portpin came to be back in control of Pompey when CSI went into administration, that could potentially rule Chainrai out.

 

However, as we know from experience, the FL do tend to ignore the letter of their own rules when it suits them...

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carljack

carljack

Posted
Posted

Chinnys changed his mind he is going to put "more" money in! I wonder what has changed his mind ? could he really have a heart after all ? has he become a compassionate man ? a fan even,he even thinks he might enjoy losing millions at PFC in a quest to return to the bigtime.He really has had a change of heart. PMSL.

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted

Actually some of the comments in that article are a pure joy.

 

Nice one Matt

 

They can't pin that on us,

 

This would appear to put the Football League on a path to a legal dispute with Chainrai,

 

then sell the club.

 

ROFL.

 

Matt said on Twitter that he had spent a couple of days "catching up" on the story. Reckon he must have broken some speed reading records there then what with his diversion to the Olympics & UCI he must have had 400 pages of this thread to speed read to get the story :)

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The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
For his part, Chainrai says he is willing to spend whatever it takes to get Pompey back up the league ladder.

"The club has no value in League One. Everybody knows that," he said. "So I'm going to put money in to return them to their glories and then sell

the club. But who knows? I might enjoy it so much I won't sell it.

 

:lol:

 

 

Of course you are, Chinny; those purse strings are going to get loosened to the nth degree, aren't they?!

 

"I'm not reluctant anymore. I've changed my mind."

 

:lol::lol:

 

The more I see Chinners bluster his way through the media and attempt to strongarm all and sundry into getting what he wants, the more I think he's fighting a losing battle. There'd be simply no need for him to engage in such a public slanging match were he in any position of power; so he's using these bullying tactics to try and engender a fear of huge litigation.

 

I also genuinely think the Football League may for once take a strong stance with its owners and directors test. And how ironic that David Lumpitt may have a very active role in determining to what extent Chinners was involved in the last entrance into administration, which would be the final nail in the coffin for the loan shark.

 

Two things are for sure after these latest revelations; there is still a huge way to go with all of this, and PKF and Trevor Birch are going to get continually richer because of it (all the while eating up the Trust's much needed cash funding).

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted

Oooh

 

Nearly missed this earlier linked from Matt on Twitter

 

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-25/rate-rigger-jail-merrill-fined-boe-governor-compliance.html

Ex-Snoras Bank Owner Sued by U.K. Prosecutors Over ‘Crime’ Money

Former Bankas Snoras AB owner Vladimir Antonov was sued by U.K. prosecutors under a law used to confiscate crime proceeds, while he challenges a related extradition case with Lithuania, where he is wanted for fraud.

The lawsuit was discussed at a London court hearing yesterday that was closed to the public after requests by Antonov’s lawyer, James Lewis, and the Crown Prosecution Service.

Antonov, a Russian, and his Lithuanian business partner Raimondas Baranauskas were detained in London in November after Lithuanian authorities issued a European arrest warrant on claims they forged documents and fixed accounts to siphon at least 1.7 billion litas ($635 million) from the country’s third- biggest bank by deposits, causing its collapse.

Snoras, based in Vilnius, filed a separate civil lawsuit in Britain in May seeking a similar amount in damages, and won a court order freezing Antonov’s assets. Antonov, accused of using the money for luxury purchases, claims the cases may be politically motivated.

The Crown Prosecution Service’s press office and Kevin Gold, another lawyer for Antonov, didn’t immediately return calls for comment about the case.

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted

OK so Matt's story goes much deeper & he has a couple of Radio sessions booked

 

Matt Slater ‏@mattslaterbbc My Chainrai story has passed its owners & directors test but will Balu? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19711385 … will be on 5 Live at 1.25 #Pompey

 

 

 

GazzaTowns ‏@GazzaTowns

 

@mattslaterbbc missed portpin only gettin 'involved' with PFC after suing SG dad, not a very good businessman if just lent £17m 2MrDontexist

 

 

 

 

Matt Slater ‏@mattslaterbbc

 

Wasn't missed @GazzaTowns but story was getting pretty long & I trimmed those pars before subs did it for me

 

BBC Solent Sport ‏@solentsport

@mattslaterbbc who has been speaking to Balram Chainrai is live on @BBCRadioSolent 7.10am Wednesday #pompey

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mattslater/2011/11/british_test_is_fit_for_nothin.html

 

If there is a more inappropriately named piece of regulation than football's fit and proper person test, I would like to hear it. I could use a laugh.

But I will be very surprised if anybody can come up with something good enough to lighten the mood amongst Portsmouth fans - it is hard to stay cheerful when your most recent fit and proper persons include a banker arrested for asset-stripping, Dubai's self-styled Donald Trump (but without any money) and a chap who may not even exist.

 

Oi he nicked my Sultan Bin Trump line!

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
Seems to me that Chanrai is a bit like a washed up Vegas gambler always chasing his losses, hoping for that one break that will win his money back. He keeps putting his money on blue but the ball keeps landing on sh!t brown.

 

On the contrary, he is playing a very clever game and has most likely got back what he put in long ago.

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

let me just clarify the earlier question - I asked if anyone thinks they haven't been punished 'at all'.

 

Did you think I'd gone as soft as Avram on a Horton Heath all-nighter and decided that they'd suffered enough? :lol:

 

It seems clear to me that they are being punished, with every day getting sh!tter than the previous, but I certainly wasn't saying let's be nice to the poor victims of the nasty league, no, no - I ain't ready to hang up my kicking boots just yet!

 

And if I ever do feel sympathy I just remember the slow-thinking, inbred, cross-eyed, toothless pikeys chucking coins out of the south stand last season.

If the club goes pop leaving leisure hours to fill, their sisters are going to dread Saturday afternoon 'cuddletime'.

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The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
let me just clarify the earlier question - I asked if anyone thinks they haven't been punished 'at all'.

 

Did you think I'd gone as soft as Avram on a Horton Heath all-nighter and decided that they'd suffered enough? :lol:

 

It seems clear to me that they are being punished, with every day getting sh!tter than the previous, but I certainly wasn't saying let's be nice to the poor victims of the nasty league, no, no - I ain't ready to hang up my kicking boots just yet!

 

And if I ever do feel sympathy I just remember the slow-thinking, inbred, cross-eyed, toothless pikeys chucking coins out of the south stand last season.

If the club goes pop leaving leisure hours to fill, their sisters are going to dread Saturday afternoon 'cuddletime'.

 

I think the bulk of their "punishment" will truly be seen as and when they come out of administration, and for the 2 or 3 years that follow that.

 

If they get Chinny; well, that's obviously a massive kick in the nuts for any Pompey fan, the man is just a disease and will extract every last penny out of them that he can, to the detriment of the football club. Even a good proportion of us nutjobs seemingly don't wish Chinny on them, as its a surefire way for yet another administration 2 or 3 years down the line.

 

If the Trust get in, then the finances simply don't stack up. Tricky Trev and his cohorts are busy filling out their timesheets so that the bulk of the £3M parachute payment figure recently received (previously budgetted for the Trust to run the club) will be used to pay PKF's ever-increasingly astronimical fees. The Trust's original operating budget was half decent without being exhorbitant; they've since had to find an extra £6M to cover the player deferral payments, so naturally the rest of the budget will suffer because of that. The Trust have already been on the radio saying they'll need addtional pledges and investment year on year to go forwards (a claim that was hastily backtracked upon when they considered the actual implication of that statement being out in the open), so there are clearly concerns with the level of funding, even if its being publicly denied. The Trust can't afford an academy in the longer term; the natives are getting restless with the poor footballing show on offer at Fortress Fatpipe; relegation to League 2 is looming large on the horizon (with or without the -10) and the crowds are falling away. And in the background Chinny still holds the keys to the charge over the ground and won't relinquish that without a fight in court, which will have to be funded by even more money that would originally have gone into the Trust's operating budget. The Trust are slowly gaining extra pledges day by day, of course, but Tricky Trev's £500 per hour demands much more of a financial investment that those few hardy souls diverting their life's savings into the Pompey life support machine are able to provide.

 

Its a sad indictment for them, but life will be perilous for Pompey whether they get Chinny or the Trust. I still maintain that liquidation and a phoenix club would have proved to be the most sensible option in 5 year's time. The Trust's is an admirable effort, but ultimately flawed IMO.

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hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted
There is some interesting and deliberately broad language about who the Owners & Directors test applies to ... "Persons exercising “control” over the Club "

 

http://www.football-league.co.uk/staticFiles/0/8c/0,,10794~166912,00.pdf

 

Chainrai put them in to admin the first time round, in 2010 - that's not in doubt: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/9121791.stm

Balram Chainrai, a Hong Kong-based businessman, became Pompey's fourth owner inside a year when he assumed control of the club in February 2010 before putting them in administration soon afte

 

So I guess the question is whether Chainrai had any "control" at the time of the 2012 administration (or indeed the CSI administration which also qualifies as an "insolvency event"? It sounds like CSI never paid him a penny, and given that he was trying to bring AA in to undertake the administration process, he was perhaps (indirectly?) involved in the act of entering administration.

 

So i'm idly speculating, and i can't quite remember the sequence of events back in February, but this has the potential to run on...

I suppose you should also ask yourself whether the two insolvency events (2010 admin & 2012 admin) are indeed unconnected. I can see a case being made that they are not.

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landford.saint

landford.saint

Posted
Posted

I'm to money management, as Fatty Arbuckle was to hang-gliding, but do I get this right. Chinny currently has a 'charge' over Nottarf, sort of a security against a debt.

In the new era, he will own the club/ground outright, and be owed £5 million. If we ignore the £5 mill debt (lets face it Skates always ignore their debts), he will soon owe the club outright without any strings. Could he then just close PFC down and sell everything off, to recoup his loses.

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
I'm to money management, as Fatty Arbuckle was to hang-gliding, but do I get this right. Chinny currently has a 'charge' over Nottarf, sort of a security against a debt.

In the new era, he will own the club/ground outright, and be owed £5 million. If we ignore the £5 mill debt (lets face it Skates always ignore their debts), he will soon owe the club outright without any strings. Could he then just close PFC down and sell everything off, to recoup his loses.

 

Yes but. In this scenario he may get more by not "investing" any money and letting TB liquidate.

 

He feels that with tax allowances on losses and debt to equity he can get more back by keeping them hanging on a string.

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

Posted
Posted
I'm to money management, as Fatty Arbuckle was to hang-gliding, but do I get this right. Chinny currently has a 'charge' over Nottarf, sort of a security against a debt.

In the new era, he will own the club/ground outright, and be owed £5 million. If we ignore the £5 mill debt (lets face it Skates always ignore their debts), he will soon owe the club outright without any strings. Could he then just close PFC down and sell everything off, to recoup his loses.

 

I do believe he could, but unlikely - unltimately, he will have vto pay teh football creditors the 8mil form the parachutes - but at league 1 levels him injecting as littles 2 mil would make them competitive again - and it 'appears' his intention is to invest a little, get back in the Campionshoip and then sell lock stock and barrel - but at what value? might be worth 5 or 6 mill to teh right mug, but given the lack of any infrastructure of note, teh 5mil debt to chinney, not sure its worth it...

 

I still have this suspicion that he may cal it a day just after he has pocketed the parachutes, put them back in admin and walk away if that is legal.... ?

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