Pompey Takeover Saga

[Waterside.saint]

None at all

 

 

This thread doesn't do Conclusions.

 

That's why it's called a Saga.......

 

 

It goes on and on and on

 

Quite right. According to Wikipedia:

"[sagas]...are usually realistic... They are sometimes romanticised and fantastic, but always dealing with human beings one can understand."

Of course, in this context one might take issue with the bit about about 'dealing with human beings one can understand'

[derry]

This season the due PPs are August and February, two payments of £4m if complete. That means only £1.58m due in August. But how much of that is already earmarked.

[The9]

I did mention a while back that Birch (as "the club") might be spending the PPs to get rid of the players.

 

Next question : assuming he does take over, what is Chainrai actually able to asset strip from PFC to get his money back before he (presumably) sells to the Trust and gets his money back via rent ? What is there still left which constitutes what Chainrai is buying at this point ? And of that, what's already earmarked for other things ?

 

I don't even want to start a list with Fratton Park and 3-and-a-bit parachute payments, but is that it ?

[redkeith]

For those of you interested in new technology, I have managed to track down a picture of the Super Computer that the PST used to come up with it's budget forecasts.

 

It was also leased to Portsmouth City Council, to calculate average spend at homegames.

 

[hypochondriac]

Why would Chanrai give the Trust the club now, when he can bleed them for a few more years and then give them what is left (and even rent them the ground for a good few years for even more profit!)

[trousers]

@pn_neil_allen: RT @saintmatt86: Looking forward to backing out of my agreement to pay the £900 balance of my £1,000 PST pledge #pompey

[sidthesquid]

Lawrence does a deal?

I should think he fricking well does at the levels that Birch has agreed!

We were given the impression that players were writing off monies and being heroic, then Saint John spots the little bombshell from Vernon-Jackson that they have already agreed £8M - and that didn't include Lawrence and Kanu.

If spread over four years, they need to payoff £40K a week!!

 

They aim to operate on a wagebill of £2.5M a year - but most of that has already been agreed for the plucky ten....

 

Though it might be easier to not pay them.....and just reverse the bus back through the debris of the football creditor rule.

 

 

I did a detailed calculation (Not easy since I gave up smoking) & reckoned that the deferred wages alone totalled £4miilion, never mind compromise deals so that figure is probably not far off the mark. And why Appy might not get the chance to outbid his rivals for Howard & co.

[Doctoroncall]

From the guardian league one preview:

 

[h=2]Portsmouth[/h]Story of the summer The fact that we've spent all summer trying to get rid of our entire squad says it all. We've got a team of children and trialists we can't sign, plus a millionaire clinging onto his contract and risking our liquidation. We've been thrashed in pre-season friendlies by Gibraltar and Brighton, but somehow beating Aldershot and then a strong Bolton side has given us a sliver of hope. I'll still be stunned if we manage to put out a team – let alone a competitive one.

What the fans want A takeover by the Portsmouth Supporters' Trust. We're not asking for promotion, we're not

demanding signings, we're desperate for mere survival and some semblance of stability.

What they'll actually get At worst, a takeover by Balram Chainrai and the slow death of the club. At best, immediate liquidation as Tal Ben Haim plays hardball over the remainder of his contract.

One to watch It depends hugely on whether we can sign trialists like Izale McLeod or Mustapha Dumbuya. Of the current crop, Sam Magri has captained England under-17s and Portsmouth in pre-season. A centre-back who trialed with Liverpool last season, he could be key to any revival we experience, hopefully we can rebuild around him as he gets the chance to play regularly.

We'll finish … the season if we're lucky.

Benedict West, Portsmouth fan

[Waterside.saint]

@pn_neil_allen: RT @saintmatt86: Looking forward to backing out of my agreement to pay the £900 balance of my £1,000 PST pledge #pompey

 

What a charmer

[Ohio Saint]

Every time I read the name Mustapha Dumbuya, I pee myself a little.

[Winchester Red]

Does it matter that TB has promised millions of the remaining PP to the players in settlements?

 

It doesn't mean BC will actually pay them.

 

He'll just take the PP when they come in and let the club face the consequences won't he?

 

It the football league have any sense they'll get the PP diverted to them, pay all the football commitments and pass on what little is left to BC and PFC

[sussexsaint]

From the guardian league one preview:

 

[h=2]Portsmouth[/h]Story of the summer The fact that we've spent all summer trying to get rid of our entire squad says it all. We've got a team of children and trialists we can't sign, plus a millionaire clinging onto his contract and risking our liquidation. We've been thrashed in pre-season friendlies by Gibraltar and Brighton, but somehow beating Aldershot and then a strong Bolton side has given us a sliver of hope. I'll still be stunned if we manage to put out a team – let alone a competitive one.

What the fans want A takeover by the Portsmouth Supporters' Trust. We're not asking for promotion, we're not

demanding signings, we're desperate for mere survival and some semblance of stability.

What they'll actually get At worst, a takeover by Balram Chainrai and the slow death of the club. At best, immediate liquidation as Tal Ben Haim plays hardball over the remainder of his contract.

One to watch It depends hugely on whether we can sign trialists like Izale McLeod or Mustapha Dumbuya. Of the current crop, Sam Magri has captained England under-17s and Portsmouth in pre-season. A centre-back who trialed with Liverpool last season, he could be key to any revival we experience, hopefully we can rebuild around him as he gets the chance to play regularly.

We'll finish … the season if we're lucky.

Benedict West, Portsmouth fan

 

An intelligent Skate

 

[alpine_saint]

Now that all the team have gone how funny would it be for Chin to come and say "you know what I can't be bothered now " and withdraw his offer.

 

I've said all along that Chinny could have been bluffing.

 

I suppose his bluff is well-and-truly called now. We shall see soon...

[Waterside.saint]

Now that all the team have gone how funny would it be for Chin to come and say "you know what I can't be bothered now " and withdraw his offer.

 

I've said all along that Chinny could have been bluffing.

 

I suppose his bluff is well-and-truly called now. We shall see soon...

 

I'm waiting now for the explosions of baffled outrage from the deluded phew as it slowly sinks in that they are screwed for a generation

[Ohio Saint]

I've said all along that Chinny could have been bluffing.

 

I suppose his bluff is well-and-truly called now. We shall see soon...

 

Well, now we will find out how he feels about the idea of having the FL breathing down his neck for 5 years.

[Frank's cousin]

Does it matter that TB has promised millions of the remaining PP to the players in settlements?

 

It doesn't mean BC will actually pay them.

 

He'll just take the PP when they come in and let the club face the consequences won't he?

 

It the football league have any sense they'll get the PP diverted to them, pay all the football commitments and pass on what little is left to BC and PFC

 

This is a good point - I am surprized that FL, consider deffered wage agreements in the spirit' of having satisfied their rules on 'paying off all footballing creditors in FULL' for them to get the golden share - Whilst as I understand it, the PPs come the PL, and go to the club, so cant divert this, I cant see why the FL did not contractually obligate Portsmouth to hand over ALL PP cash until the footballing creditoes were paid in full.... see this is where all thsoe players who walked away seem dim... (unless this has been agred as part of their compromise agreements) ... why did they not get together and with the PFA stipulate deferred wages until the PPs arrive and they are paid in full, leaving perhaps 3 mil for the chinney bloke....

 

...and now appy wants 4 mil for a squad (and the skates fans want more)... well can he please go live on record and explain how he can morally justify spending anything on transfers when there are creditors owed more than 100 million ? The fact they 'just dont get it' sounds like a stuck record. The fact that ANYONE has sympathy for that attitude is frankly worrying, teh fact that the media and 'football' old school, have sympathy, placing survival of the club ahead of the fact that they have in effect shafted creditors to massive amounts, and now deffered wages makes it even worse...

 

Well, If Appy gets his 4.5 mil, (you could not make it up) they will be operating at a loss from the start (not including the deferred wages due which will be left as a toxic legacy for the next admin to deal with) - seriously, I suspect that we will all be able to reconvene before the year is out when we hear the next stories as 'pompey seek new investment' moving to 'pompey fail to pay player wages' to 'pompey mis wage deffferal deadline' to 'Pompey go into admin' to 'AA returns as pompey administrator' to 'Chanrai: I will get my money back, I am secured' ..... and like a long running heap of shiedt soap, the cyclical nature of the storyline, will be familiar, and desite the are crash entertainment value, will leave most feeling cheated...

[angelman]

If/when Chin takes over, as an already secured creditor, won't he have to write off/down what is "owed" to him? Not sure that he can just defer it.

[Doctoroncall]

If/when Chin takes over, as an already secured creditor, won't he have to write off/down what is "owed" to him? Not sure that he can just defer it.

 

But he can bleed the club many other ways to get his money even if his secured amount has been reduced. All part of being the owner.

[eurosaint]

Was out this afternoon and came back expecting a landslide of posts on this historic day, only to find half a page of non information !

Christ, the Skates even let us down on (so called!) deadline days !

Barstewards, the lot of them !!

[trousers]

@pn_neil_allen: RT @lukeymoore: So'ton fan tries to write about Pompey and gets it badly wrong. Good example for budding writers of how not to write: http://t.co/BrQ4ew5O

 

Seems like a pretty accurate synopsis of what's happened to me. Anything that rattles the Pompey ostrich cage is fine by me. Written by someone on here per chance?! :-)

Edited 10 August, 2012 by trousers

[gaz]

@pn_neil_allen: RT @lukeymoore: So'ton fan tries to write about Pompey and gets it badly wrong. Good example for budding writers of how not to write: http://t.co/BrQ4ew5O

 

[Pamplemousse]

Some skates on POL

 

I'm normally a glass half full kinda bloke but I can see us a getting a severe humping at Plymouth. Which wont do the kids any good @ all. I feel the FL have to help us out somehow to remain competitive. Imagine if we lost say 7-0 or similar, that could be very embarrassing for the FL if the tabloids pick up on the embargo.

 

The FL love dishing out retrospective punishments, Luton the classic example under Nick Owens consortium. But to me its not the answer. The answer is going after the culprits, not keep hitting a business thats already on the floor out cold.

 

They still refuse to blame themselves, it's always somebody else's fault... :facepalm:

[trousers]

Ben says:

August 10, 2012 at 10:45 am

Where to start with this article?

 

Firstly, just to say that I’m not a Portsmouth or Southampton fan. Honestly couldn’t care less about either club.

 

That said, this entire article just smacks of the sad, pathetic gloating that I find rife among Southampton fans, so quick to forget that they were in administration less than five years ago.

 

This club has not lost all goodwill from the football community in any way shape or form, as Aldershot and Plymouth Argylle’s recent statements show. Most football fans that aren’t of a Southampton inclination are actually genuinely concerned about the plight of a club as fanatically supported as Portsmouth, worried that the same could happen to their club.

 

As an Aldershot Town fan, I know all too well the pain of seeing your club go down the pan, run by crooks determined to take every shred of dignity away from the club, and its loyal fans.

 

Thankfully, that was in the early 90′s, and we didn’t have to contend with utter idiots going onto the internet and writing pathetic articles like this one.

 

Oh, and the first FA Cup final to be held at the new Wembley was Man Utd vs Chelsea in 2007, not Portsmouth vs Cardiff in 2008. Great research mate.

[trousers]

William Bates says:

August 10, 2012 at 11:00 am

This is in fact factually incorrect. The 2p offer was in fact made by Baliram Chanrai of Portpin ltd. The current problems were NOT caused by overspending but the liquidation of the parent company Convers Sports Initiatives , which was closed due to the co owner committing fraud at snoras bank http://www.converssport.com/structure. The tax bill was unpaid because the previous (Greek) administrator Andrew Andronikou took money from the tax account to pay himself when other staff went unpaid. He was rewarded for this by being made the administrator of Convers Sports. The Gates last season were 15,044 not 10,000 as you suggested. Fratton Park was only ever regularly filled to capacity in 2009-10 season and even in the 2008 campaign mostly still had room. Furthermore Fratton Park is nowhere near as bad as you old home , ‘The Dell’ before it was demolished therefore by your standards it probably has twenty years left in it.

[trousers]

Stoo H says:

August 10, 2012 at 11:10 am

Wow, I thought some of the Pompey fans were blinkered but this is even more so.

 

Of course Pompey fans were asking questions at the time but whilst there is a single person in charge of the club it’s somewhat difficult to dictate what direction he should take the club, especially as gate income at our ground had so little impact on the overall finances.

 

Chastising the fans for celebrating a cup win is ridiculous, I challenge any fan of any club not to celebrate a cup win no matter what the circumstances.

 

The supporters trust was established several years ago but was never in a position before to buy the club due to the dubious nature of our previous administrations (Andronikou, Chainrai et al) it is only now that there is the realistic possibility of taking charge of the club. Focusing on their offer of 2p in the £ is nonsensical, it’s also what has been offered by ‘our saviour’ Mr Chainrai. I agree it’s not palatable but it’s what’s affordable to the trust. Whilst it is an emotion based attempt to buy the club it is also a business transaction, the alternative to the creditors would be nothing.

 

The trust attempting to buy the club should be lauded as an attempt to take a defiled and reviled club and put them in a position to be used as a blueprint. Plan B – setting up a phoenix club – is quite frankly the easy way out, despite how you view it.

 

AFC Wimbledon was also subtly different in that the club was franchised and moved 60 miles away, the hollow shell of what was our club still remains here.

 

I will cede a point to you about the self indulgent nonsense of ‘that’ banner, cringe worthy.

 

Any how i’ll let you get back to your nice fully paid for stadium now hope that you have learnt from all yours and our past mistakes and don’t go spunking huge sums of money on untested players….

[Waterside.saint]

@pn_neil_allen: RT @lukeymoore: So'ton fan tries to write about Pompey and gets it badly wrong. Good example for budding writers of how not to write: http://t.co/BrQ4ew5O

 

Seems like a pretty accurate synopsis of what's happened to me. Anything that rattles the Pompey ostrich cage is fine by me. Written by someone on here per chance?! :-)

 

+1. Saintbrutal is probably not a professional writer (unlike that bastion of journalistic integrity Neil Allen of the Pompey Pravda) but he has nevertheless done a good job in pointing out the handbag they're all dancing around, i.e. their unaffordable, unsustainable, immoral overspending - over a number of years - which coupled with their overdeveloped sense of entitlement has got them where they are today. Good on yer!

Edited 10 August, 2012 by Waterside.saint

[isplumm]

4 million budget - that works out @ over £3.8k per week if they take 20 players - that is a huge amount for L1 - no wonder all these players want to sign for Pompey - mad .....

 

Mark

[Waterside.saint]

4 million budget - that works out @ over £3.8k per week if they take 20 players - that is a huge amount for L1 - no wonder all these players want to sign for Pompey - mad .....

 

Mark

 

who knows, perhaps they'll go for that tried & tested 'quality not quantity' approach, that worked well for them

[dvaughanwilliams]

4 million budget - that works out @ over £3.8k per week if they take 20 players - that is a huge amount for L1 - no wonder all these players want to sign for Pompey - mad .....

 

Mark

 

1. The trust have suggested a budget of £2.6m. Given the recent comments by Liam Lawrence, Chinny will probably have a similar budget.

 

2. These figures are the gross cost to the club. Football salaries are often quoted by the net, after tax earnings. Even if you work on gross employee earnings, you have to take into account employer's NI and pension contribution costs.

 

In reality, they'll have a small squad at the average wage.

[Lazlo78]

2. These figures are the gross cost to the club. Football salaries are often quoted by the net, after tax earnings. Even if you work on gross employee earnings, you have to take into account employer's NI and pension contribution costs.

 

To give on of the automatic response jokes of this thread: "but they don't do taxes"

[dvaughanwilliams]

FA's conditions for the Golden Share:

 

1. Accept a deduction of 10 points in the 2012/13 season;

 

2. Agree that only a limited proportion of the secured debt from the previous club can be carried forward into the new company as secured debt.

 

3. Pay all football creditors in full, unless mutually acceptable compromise agreements are put in place.

 

4. Agree to a range of other restrictions on playing budgets, future borrowing and loan repayments for the next 5 seasons.

 

 

If/when Chin takes over, as an already secured creditor, won't he have to write off/down what is "owed" to him? Not sure that he can just defer it.

 

Point 2 says that the secured debt must be reduced. Chinny could apply the CVA to current unsecured debt and then convert some of his secured debt to unsecured debt, but have the same amount owed to him. It would be a loss of status of his debt, but he would be owed the same amount.

[The Kraken]

Point 2 says that the secured debt must be reduced. Chinny could apply the CVA to current unsecured debt and then convert some of his secured debt to unsecured debt, but have the same amount owed to him. It would be a loss of status of his debt, but he would be owed the same amount.

Your write off the notion that credit card sales could be ruled out, cash sales only, and the actual receipts for tickets get "lost" or manipulated.

 

Been done before, will be done again. Chinny will get all cash he can get his mits on and then scarper, it will be a sham where legal means go completely out of the window.

[hypochondriac]

@pn_neil_allen: RT @lukeymoore: So'ton fan tries to write about Pompey and gets it badly wrong. Good example for budding writers of how not to write: http://t.co/BrQ4ew5O

 

Seems like a pretty accurate synopsis of what's happened to me. Anything that rattles the Pompey ostrich cage is fine by me. Written by someone on here per chance?! :-)

 

What a fantastic article. Brilliant summary.

[trousers]

@officialpompey: Early bird season ticket rate extended until August 17: http://t.co/epLVOnAn #pompey

[hypochondriac]

@officialpompey: Early bird season ticket rate extended until August 17: http://t.co/epLVOnAn #pompey

 

Pretty late birds.

[carljack]

pretty late birds.

 

dead ducks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Saints foreva]

James Elvin ‏@elviiin

Difference between Portsmouth Football Club & Markus Liebherr today? #Pompey are very much alive. #saintsfc #saints

 

[Dark Munster]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/ben-haim-wishes-blues-well-after-making-exit-1-4148585

 

Fecking hero - they always said so!

While the former Chelsea man recently appeared to be stubbornly opposed to accepting anything less than he was entitled to, it seems he has now simply cut his losses.

 

"Cuts his losses" on the day Cheats receive a sizeable parachute payment?

 

Mind you, if he's agreed to having all he's owed paid over the next 4 years, he will find out the hard way that he has indeed "cut his losses."

 

Does it matter that TB has promised millions of the remaining PP to the players in settlements?

 

It doesn't mean BC will actually pay them.

 

He'll just take the PP when they come in and let the club face the consequences won't he?

 

It the football league have any sense they'll get the PP diverted to them, pay all the football commitments and pass on what little is left to BC and PFC

Therein lies the problem (for the 8 mugs).

[Dark Munster]

This is a good point - I am surprized that FL' date=' consider deffered wage agreements in the spirit' of having satisfied their rules on 'paying off all footballing creditors in FULL' for them to get the golden share - Whilst as I understand it, the PPs come the PL, and go to the club, so cant divert this, [b']I cant see why the FL did not contractually obligate Portsmouth to hand over ALL PP cash until the footballing creditoes were paid in full.[/b]... see this is where all thsoe players who walked away seem dim... (unless this has been agred as part of their compromise agreements) ... why did they not get together and with the PFA stipulate deferred wages until the PPs arrive and they are paid in full, leaving perhaps 3 mil for the chinney bloke....

If they did, Chinny/TB would simply liquidate the club. Then the FL would be blamed for destroying the plucky Cheats, but more importantly the parachute payments would revert back to the PL.

[ooh it's a corner]

James Elvin ‏@elviiin

Difference between Portsmouth Football Club & Markus Liebherr today? #Pompey are very much alive. #saintsfc #saints

 

 

Tasteful. Classy. Sums up the difference between us and them.

[dubai_phil]

Think at heart all grown ups yearn to be kids again.

 

That is why we are loving this saga.

 

Let's face it, one of the best party games when we were saintandy's age was - Pass The Parcel.

 

The reason we're all so attracted to this is we see the same game different name.

 

Pass the Debt

[Saint in Paradise]

Think at heart all grown ups yearn to be kids again.

 

That is why we are loving this saga.

 

Let's face it, one of the best party games when we were saintandy's age was - Pass The Parcel.

 

The reason we're all so attracted to this is we see the same game different name.

 

Pass the Debt

 

Don't you really mean pass the "Playboy" mag Phil ?

[Weston Super Saint]

FA's conditions for the Golden Share:

 

1. Accept a deduction of 10 points in the 2012/13 season;

 

2. Agree that only a limited proportion of the secured debt from the previous club can be carried forward into the new company as secured debt.

 

3. Pay all football creditors in full, unless mutually acceptable compromise agreements are put in place.

 

4. Agree to a range of other restrictions on playing budgets, future borrowing and loan repayments for the next 5 seasons.

 

 

 

 

Point 2 says that the secured debt must be reduced. Chinny could apply the CVA to current unsecured debt and then convert some of his secured debt to unsecured debt, but have the same amount owed to him. It would be a loss of status of his debt, but he would be owed the same amount.

 

But, you're missing one important point

 

The PPs are paid to the club - less what has been apportioned and agreed with the PL to pay off football creditors - and the club / owner is free to do with the rest as it pleases.

 

So Chinny needs only wait until next August - presumably this August and February payments have been apportioned to pay of football debts - then he can trouser £4m followed by another £4m in Feb 2014. I'd expect Feb 2014 to be the start of the Valentine's day massacre.

[alpine_saint]

James Elvin ‏@elviiin

Difference between Portsmouth Football Club & Markus Liebherr today? #Pompey are very much alive. #saintsfc #saints

 

 

Pure class act, our fishy friends down the road...

[Saint in Paradise]

That Trevor bloke seems to have caught something from a lot of you good people ( as well as catching

other stuff from "them" ) BOTH keep delaying the date for the execution to be carried out.

 

I want it done now - not have to wait until 2014, I might not be around to see that happy day.

[Appy]

James Elvin ‏@elviiin

Difference between Portsmouth Football Club & Markus Liebherr today? #Pompey are very much alive. #saintsfc #saints

 

 

Sums them up right there.

[Depressed of Shirley]

it really is easy to dislike them. Every time I read anything those halfwits say, I just can't think of a punishment bad enough.

 

Just f**k off you inbred rubbish.

[dubai_phil]

Don't you really mean pass the "Playboy" mag Phil ?

 

Hahaha you just reminded me of ANOTHER immortal line in Iron Sky.........

 

Look at this one, her hair is like The Fuhrer's Moustache..........

[carljack]

James Elvin ‏@elviiin

Difference between Portsmouth Football Club & Markus Liebherr today? #Pompey are very much alive. #saintsfc #saints

 

 

Once in a million years a man like him rises

Oh no Marcus you cry,but then he has gone

and your life knows no answer

 

Saint till I Die!

[The9]

@pn_neil_allen: RT @lukeymoore: So'ton fan tries to write about Pompey and gets it badly wrong. Good example for budding writers of how not to write: http://t.co/BrQ4ew5O

 

Seems like a pretty accurate synopsis of what's happened to me. Anything that rattles the Pompey ostrich cage is fine by me. Written by someone on here per chance?! :-)

 

I wonder if the "unnamed local journalist" realised it was him being referred to - he almost certainly didn't realise that the Skate off the Football Ramble that he's tweeted will probably have an opinion nearer ours than his judging by his previous comments.

 

And yes, a perfectly reasonable summary. Weirdness from the Aldershot fan though, clearly has a bit of a problem with Saints fans...