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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
@pn_neil_allen RT ‏@chalkface2009 I trust all those outraged at #Pompey loan marched against the banks' 3.1trillion bailout? Thought not

 

 

:facepalm: :facepalm:

 

The good people of Portsmouth...comparing apples with oranges since the beginning of time...

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tony13579

tony13579

Posted
Posted
Oh come on guys, playing this vague "we care about where council money goes in Portsmouth" card is making all the Saints fans posting on this board look slightly pathetic. Thats not the reason you - or anyone - on this board cares that they're being bailed out. Admit it - it's because they're Portsmouth and they're Southampton's local rivals. There's nothing wrong with that, so why make out like you need reasons like this? Just laugh at their prediciment for what it is, otherwise it really does make us all look a bit pathetic really. Go on Twitter and it's full of Pompey fans saying we're obsessed - and it seems our 7 years of being below them has made us that way. Let's all just move on now. If they die, they die. If they live, they live. Either way, we'll be better off than them in every possible way.

 

P.s. That isn't a dig at the post I've quoted by the way. Just everyone who posts reguarly on this thread.

 

P.p.s. And I'm not saying we shouldn't discuss 'The Saga'. Just stop pretending to be morally outraged by it.

 

Actually mate, I don't want Pompey dead as a Saints fan. I want Pompey dead because there is no other way t o punish the people that bleed the system dry. I want the courts, the agents, the ex-directors to get the blame. I want the ridiculous administration laws reformed. I want other clubs to compete within their budget, without expecting to write of 80-98% of their cheating debt. I am 95% morally outraged, 5% because it's Pompey!

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
Joe Nimmo@PN_Joe_Nimmo Tory Cllr Donna Jones says she is a strict custodian of public money, but estimates the economic impact of Pompey is more than £300m. #pst

 

Where on earth have they got the £300 million figure from? If split over games for next year (as that is where a lot of the benefit to local economy comes) it works out at £13 million per League One game! How can they possibly think that is true?

 

I suspect they have their plus and minus buttons mixed up ;)

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Chin Strain

Chin Strain

Posted
Posted (edited)
Sticking to my June 8th position, the seperating the ground from PFC was in the proposal. The only change is that Chanrai (Portpin) might now buy the land fron admin of Miland Devolpments 2004, coincidence?

 

I'd agree with this.

 

So, in summary, PCC approve a loan just after TBH does one, thereby making it a vote winner for them with no risk attached as TB won't sell to the Trust.

 

The string of guarantees will ensure that there's no risk to PCC (in the unlikely event that Chinny hops it), assuming that the PL / TB agree to guarantee the PPs go to the council to cover the loan + £50k interest in 12 months.

 

Chinny will take over. He'll snaffle up the rest of the PPs. He'll transfer the ground to his ownership. He'll run the club on a major shoestring (maybe even taking a profit!). Once the PPs are gone, he'll either flog the club to the Trust (or anyone else who wants it) and lease them the ground, or admin the club liquidating them and develop the land.

 

Nice.

Edited by Chin Strain
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Pedro

Pedro

Posted
Posted

So PCC agree a loan to a twice recently failed business (who happen to be a football club). To a business who failed to pay taxes that would have benefitted its own residents, schools, hospitals etc and who has a creditors list pages long including local butchers, taxi companies, hotels, printers etc.etc.

 

A disgraceful decision that was apparently unanimous, shame on them.

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Kingsbridge Saint

Kingsbridge Saint

Posted
Posted

If the DFCSBs return to the Championship at any point over the next 30 years English football will have lost all its inegrity and credibility. This is about far more than local rivalry. It will disillusion a generation of football fans if they get any success after their financial and moral crimes. They sicken me.

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The9

The9

Posted
Posted (edited)
So PCC agree a loan to a twice recently failed business (who happen to be a football club). To a business who failed to pay taxes that would have benefitted its own residents, schools, hospitals etc and who has a creditors list pages long including local butchers, taxi companies, hotels, printers etc.etc.

 

A disgraceful decision that was apparently unanimous, shame on them.

 

But only because they know there won't be any situation when the loan will be required. It's dependent on Chainrai (owed £18m by PFC) not wanting to take over and get his money back, which he can only do gradually through renting Fratton to the subsequent owners. If there are any other possible buyers the loan won't be offered as the club's future isn't regarded as in doubt.

 

Now the £300m the club supposedly brings their local economy, that's insane, by any measure. Especially considering the £180m they've taken out of circulation in the past few years.

 

I'll also be interested to see if the council's decision - displaying their political will without actually costing them anything - works for political gain or, in this financial environment, as a stick to beat them with.

Edited by The9
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TopGun

TopGun

Posted
Posted (edited)

I guess the main plus point is that Pompey are now on a fair playing field financially assuming Chinny does the deal. If the PST had £350,000 down as player purchasing funds for the season and a total player salary outlay of £2.6m I'd think we can assume that Chinny won't be much different, if not less, as he will sweep up the £11.8m parachutes outstanding (minus whatever TBH gained as last man standing and whatever PKF and the other football creditors are due). Plus they will be scrutinised for five years in theory.

 

So they start at -10 points, have relatively few funds in comparison to the whopping credit card funded monies they have had before and are in a similar revenue situation to L1 teams like Coventry, Doncaster and Preston, except they have to pay CVA dues.

 

So probably at least three seasons of L1 anyway and very unlikely to do much in the Championship afterwards.

 

And that ignores the FP and surrounding land issues as well as a lack of a decent training ground and so on.

Edited by TopGun
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St Chalet

St Chalet

Posted
Posted
If secured creditors have to be paid off or have an agreement in place, and if PST are the "winners", what's to stop Chin demanding to be paid off? If he is going to lose out, then he might as well get his money paid back.

 

Nail on head. PST cannot afford to buy Chinny out.

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The9

The9

Posted
Posted
I guess the main plus point is that Pompey are now on a fair playing field financially assuming Chinny does the deal. If the PST had £350,000 down as player purchasing funds for the season and a total player salary outlay of £2.6m I'd think we can assume that Chinny won't be much different, if not less. Plus they will be scrutinised for five years in theory.

 

So they start at -10 points, have relatively few funds in comparison to the whopping credit card funded monies they have had before and are in a similar revenue situation to L1 teams like Coventry, Doncaster and Preston, except they have to pay CVA dues.

So probably at least three seasons of L1 anyway and very unlikely to do much in the Championship afterwards.

And that ignores the FP and surrounding land issues as well as a lack of a decent training ground and so on.

 

And the fact that by the time they are able to sign people under the FL's watchful eye now there won't be many worth having who are still unattached and affordable... and there's no reason to think they'll suddenly have free reign come January's window either. They've got to stay up in L1 in order to get 3 seasons of L1 to begin with.

 

We got ourselves out of the -10 by having 4 or 5 decent young players and signing quality from the same league and the one above, it STILL took 2 months to get out of the bottom 3 with the spine of a decent squad, and they're nowhere near having that kind of investment.

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The9

The9

Posted
Posted

Oh, as an aside, my work colleague came through with the programme for me from last night's AFC Wimbledon v Skates match - it's actually a £1 dual programme for AFCW's matches with Preston and Portsmouth, which makes it all the funnier, as the Preston part of the programme looks normal, whilst (as you may have seen), the Skate Teamsheet is blank and there's an apology for not being able to include Pen Pictures of any of their players !

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Saint in Paradise

Saint in Paradise

Posted
Posted
Nail on head. PST cannot afford to buy Chinny out.

 

Ah but now the trust have an agreement with PCC for a small loan why don't they now up their game and

ask PCC for a grant to buy out Chinny? I mean PCC have now admitted that they think PFC are worth saving

and are at present in a happy clappy mood. Also that councillor says pimpey gets 300 million in benefits from

the football so how can PCC go wrong?

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TopGun

TopGun

Posted
Posted (edited)
Ah but now the trust have an agreement with PCC for a small loan why don't they now up their game and

ask PCC for a grant to buy out Chinny? I mean PCC have now admitted that they think PFC are worth saving

and are at present in a happy clappy mood. Also that councillor says pimpey gets 300 million in benefits from

the football so how can PCC go wrong?

 

But the PCC loan proposal is based on no commercial purchaser for the club i.e. no Chinny. So all it ever was is a political statement, not one they have to follow through with.

 

I have very little doubt that the PCC officers and lead councillors had a pre-council meeting about this. If Chinny pulls out, then they have to make good their otherwise empty promises made only for PR reasons. But they will be reasonably confident that they are not on the hook as TB will have told them Chinny is about to sign.

 

Which possibly only delays more torture for PFC fans used to Prem with no questions asked, but that's beside the immediate point for the politicans.

Edited by TopGun
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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
Not at all, Remember this bunch of f**kin idiots didn't think twice about spunking 30mill on a sh*t load of cement made into a spike at the end of the railway shed, Now you tell me how the f*ck that helps out the City's health/social/welfare care/ needs,:rolleyes:

 

Sent from my sonny vio typing with my 12 webbed fingers,

 

Gotta love Democracy.

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Fowllyd

Fowllyd

Posted
Posted
So let me get this straight, the next PP is due tomorrow......hmmmmmm,m......

 

Is this definitely the case though? I've seen it quoted on here in a post from (I think) the News web site, but apart from that I have no idea. Is there any authoritative source for this?

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TopGun

TopGun

Posted
Posted (edited)
Is this definitely the case though? I've seen it quoted on here in a post from (I think) the News web site, but apart from that I have no idea. Is there any authoritative source for this?

 

It was confirmed to me earlier by a PCC councillor that the PPs for the next 11 months are £5.58m. He also said that Birch will be paid from PPs already received by the club. That leaves a bit of ambiguity if £5.58m is about to land on the coffers of the PFC owner and Birch is just about to exit but it adds up.

Edited by TopGun
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Fowllyd

Fowllyd

Posted
Posted
It was confirmed to me earlier by a PCC councillor that the PPs for the next 11 months are £5.58m. He also said that Birch will be paid from PPs already received by the club. That leaves a bit of ambiguity if £5.58m is about to land on the coffers of PCC and Birch is just about to exit.

 

No argument there, especially given the source of your info. But did he or she say when the next parachute instalment is due? That was the bit I was querying, as I've seen it mentioned but nothing more concrete.

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Lazlo78

Lazlo78

Posted
Posted
So what exactly are you expecting Chainrai to do? Fund a spending spree which will gain them promotion this season or maybe next? Then spend even more to see if he can get them to the Premier League, then sell up? That would mean serious money being poured into a bottomless pit, with no guarantee whatsoever of a return. However I look at it, I really can't see that happening.

 

And if not that, then what?

 

Would be interesting to try to calculate what it cost Saints or Norwich (both clubs with acceptable facilities, stadium etc.) to go from L1 to PL - just in terms of transfers... Add to that the fact that they can't count on their academy like we did and we're way off a budget that Chinny would ever play with...

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted

Glad to see others have noticed:

 

http://www.footandball.net/tal-ben-haim-a-convenient-scapegoat-for-portsmouth/3274/

 

This is a situation entirely of Portsmouth’s making. Portsmouth punched above their weight for several seasons, and did so thanks to unsustainable spending from a succession of owners with plenty of big words but little money to back them up. In my opinion, the fault does not lie with the managers who spent the transfer money and handed out the contracts, and it certainly doesn’t lie with the players who signed those contracts; they were offered a job, and they took it, what’s wrong with that? The blame has to lie on the person, or people, who signed off on that spending in the first place.

 

Loyalty is for fans. It is neither feasible nor reasonable to expect players to demonstrate the same loyalty and passion. A fan’s relationship with a club is a love affair. A player’s relationship with the club is that of employer/employee. The idea fans have that, if they were in the same position, they would walk away with nothing and save the club, is nothing more than a romantic notion that has no basis in reality. Sure it’d be nice if a player did walk away with nothing, saving the club in the process, but why should they?

 

There are no winners in the situation. The players have not only lost money, and stand to lose more, but have suffered from Birch wielding their contracts as a stick to beat them around the head with in public, which has turned the fans against them. The non-playing members of staff at Portsmouth have suffered by losing their jobs; the local businesses who are owed money by Portsmouth have suffered by being so far down the list of creditors that they are being given only a fraction of the money they are entitled to.

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
No argument there, especially given the source of your info. But did he or she say when the next parachute instalment is due? That was the bit I was querying, as I've seen it mentioned but nothing more concrete.

 

'Oldredeye' posted on The News comments section yesterday that he understood the next PPs were due "tomorrow" (I.e. today). I believe 'oldredeye' is a member of the PST bid team...

 

Or, it could be some bloke making it all up of course! This is the Internet afterall :-)

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted

 

A good piece but this spoils it slightly: "Portsmouth are believed to owe at least £58m to various creditors". It's misguided statements like that which prove how effective Pompey and the local media have been in airbrushing the debt from CVA1...

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Fowllyd

Fowllyd

Posted
Posted
'Oldredeye' posted on The News comments section yesterday that he understood the next PPs were due "tomorrow" (I.e. today). I believe 'oldredeye' is a member of the PST bid team...

 

Or, it could be some bloke making it all up of course! This is the Internet afterall :-)

 

 

Ah, I didn't realise just who 'oldredeye' is; if this is the case then I guess he'd know. Then again, given the Trust's ability to live outside reality, it could be a figment of his or someone else's imagination. ;)

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Torres

Torres

Posted
Posted
'Oldredeye' posted on The News comments section yesterday that he understood the next PPs were due "tomorrow" (I.e. today). I believe 'oldredeye' is a member of the PST bid team...

 

Or, it could be some bloke making it all up of course! This is the Internet afterall :-)

 

PPs are made twice a year, in Feb and August, we know that much from previous shennaigans.

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sussexsaint

sussexsaint

Posted
Posted

This was in the above article...

 

"Portpin, who are in discussions with the Pompey Supporters’ Trust"

 

Why are they in discussions? - if the plan is to sell to the trust as soon as Birch has sold to Chanrai does that not make the whole process farcical - and what does Chanrai have to gain from doing all this?

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