View From The Top Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 They'll survive, BC will suck them dry, move FP into a holding company & then toss PST the carcass & rent FP to them. Happy days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowllyd Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 They'll survive, BC will suck them dry, move FP into a holding company & then toss PST the carcass & rent FP to them. Happy days. This looks the most likely outcome to me. And it's one that will provide plenty of entertainment for a couple of years yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 This looks the most likely outcome to me. And it's one that will provide plenty of entertainment for a couple of years yet... Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 He needs to remember that if he becomes a piranha in one part of the world, there is another part that will view him as a hero. I see what you did there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack rill Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/591693551?-11209 Cant believe they would want to waste the tax payers money, They are caught between a rock and a hard place, They are gonna look good turning down a 2mill lone after spunking 30 mill of our money on that spike at the end of the railway shed, And most who live in this city did not want that, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 (edited) ALL POMPEY TAKEOVER SAGA NUTJOBS! *KEY POST IN THREAD ALERT* This is interesting... http://www.portsmouth.gov.uk/media/coun20120809r5.pdf 24 pages?! Yet more expense to the beleaguered tax payer Edited 7 August, 2012 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 I can't see the PST bid working out - getting a 90% conversion rate from pledges to full funding is definitely optimistic. I think it's pretty much nailed on the BC will take them on again, and I can't see him having the interest or enthusiasm to do anything other than bleed them dry for the parachute payments. I'm just left with two questions: Firstly, when will Administration Number 4 come along? And secondly, will that one finally see them toasted? Sweepstake anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 24 pages?! Yet more expense to the beleaguered tax payer Having just a very quick flick through. Point 6.4 - They only have 1670 pledges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andysstuff Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 (edited) They only have 1670 pledges. Yes, but they're 1670 of the bestest possible pledges imaginable. Honestly Guv Edited 7 August, 2012 by andysstuff typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Kirkup Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 From the detail listed by PCC I'm amazed they have even had the cheek to ask for the loan. I've spent years producing P&L Budgets and there is always elements of assumption but to put something forward where the two main factors - Income and expenditure - are such that a mere 5-10% swing will cause the business case to fail is either stupidly naive or they're just being P*mpey. Strikes me there are some individuals who are desperate to "own" the club under any circumstances for their own ego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 Having just a very quick flick through. Point 6.4 - They only have 1670 pledges. Quality not quantity as Clotterill used to say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 Would someone be so kind to reply that if we say £150M over 3 years, then Pompey have ripped off creditors for £100/minute of the last three years!!! Talking about £150M they've effectively stolen, a total of 29 points deducted really is a farce. How about 1 point penalty for each £1M creditors have been shafted (double if no CVA is approved). Admittedly, there won't be much to play for when a team like the Cheats start the season on -150 points, but making them carry over any deficit into the next season(s), as they plummet down the leagues, will give them an incentive to "pay off" their points deficit over the years. all along BC was going to take the on, he just has been using Birch to get rid of the high earners using the fans pressure to do so. They are now down to a manageable level even if TBH does stay although if it is only now over 300k he will settle. Ma will now have a blank canvass to build a side with players out of contract who will be keen to take low er wages they would have done if they were still on a contract at a club. There is quite a decent pool of players out there and PFC will become a decent team in L1. They will not go down and even push for top 6. Whilst some think they will be finished for a decade, i dont believe so,it is patently obvious once you kick off the season it would take a massive indiscretion for the FL to help pull the plug and so they will now again be able to flick the fingers at the world. Liquidation was the only real punishment for their past misdemeanors and they have got away with it. I truly hope Iam jumping the gun here but sadly I don't think so. Relax Nick, it's either a slow painful death, or a quick one. They are on life support. Once the last parachute payment has come and gone, the plug will finally be pulled on the rotten carcass. Looks like a painful slow death (unless the conspiracy theory about Chinny, TBH, and agent Android is true). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saints_is_the_south Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 Andy Goldstein MBE @andygoldstein05 Seriously....Tal Ben Haim and Liam Lawrencre...u won't get paid if u stay and the club WILL go under. Save the club and quit.Don't be greedy All feel free to abuse this tool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 I am of course not a legal eagle but IF that trust do take over and then when it all goes bang will the main people running the trust become personally liable for the debts? OR will they like every other past "owner" seems to me to have done and just walk away and pay nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 I am of course not a legal eagle but IF that trust do take over and then when it all goes bang will the main people running the trust become personally liable for the debts? OR will they like every other past "owner" seems to me to have done and just walk away and pay nothing? Not if it's a PLC I don't think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 (edited) They'd be Ltd I would of thought? Either way they ain't personally liable Edited 7 August, 2012 by Bearsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvaughanwilliams Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 The things that jump out to me from the report: only £11.7m of PPs, not the £14m that has been knocked about on here recently; £4m football debts (£7m if they make Premier League within 10 years ); wage bill of only £2.65m and despite all of this they are on very shaky ground. I think that a surprising number of clubs are run on similarly precarious finances by optimists. I wonder why there's no 'worst case' scenario of a further relegation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 The things that jump out to me from the report: only £11.7m of PPs, not the £14m that has been knocked about on here recently; £4m football debts (£7m if they make Premier League within 10 years ); wage bill of only £2.65m and despite all of this they are on very shaky ground. I think that a surprising number of clubs are run on similarly precarious finances by optimists. I wonder why there's no 'worst case' scenario of a further relegation? There's all sorts to encourage terror from that report. 11500 average attendance (without enormous discounting) will be supremely difficult for them in League 1. So will 12500 in year 2. More so 13500 in League 3 :lol: The amounts allowed for football creditors (that Tricky Trev is happily continually agreeing while the bill adds up and up and up) just don't stack up from what the (dis)Trust can afford to pay. Does the report even allow for payment of the fees of the administrators?! Does it give Channers what he wants for Fratton Park?! It's a report based purely on fabrication, and is a complete and utter wish list. It is a nonsense, a pipe dream. In short, and predictably, :lol::lol::lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgiesaint Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 Sorry, but am I missing something in that report... Total investment (section 5, page 7) = £4,450,000 Total consideration (section 4.4, page 6) = £7,680,002 Okay let's assume they're not going to pay the players sums owed straightaway - the other debts in consideration will need to be paid... and that's still £1.23m more than the investment that they've got!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 Strikes me there are some individuals who are desperate to "own" the club under any circumstances for their own ego. So as they aren't personally liable they must be doing it like Joe Kirkup suggests? Also it would appear then they don't care if they stuff up themselves and even more local business etc? Typical of that area "I'm alright Jack" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 From the detail listed by PCC I'm amazed they have even had the cheek to ask for the loan. I've spent years producing P&L Budgets and there is always elements of assumption but to put something forward where the two main factors - Income and expenditure - are such that a mere 5-10% swing will cause the business case to fail is either stupidly naive or they're just being P*mpey. Strikes me there are some individuals who are desperate to "own" the club under any circumstances for their own ego. Exactly this. Its a financial plan based on completely hollow assumptions and projections, mathematics which just don't stack up. It's embarrassing that something so poorly conceived is given such credibility. And the Few lap it up, because its "theirs", despite the likelihood that it could turn out to be the most insolvent yet of all of their intrepid recent adventures into the financial mire. They really, really don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 So... Birch gave a Tuesday deadline for TBH to leave, or he'd have to start winding up proceedings, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 So, according to the PCC document, Voldemort's 'warchest' with the trust in charge would be a whopping £350,000. With that he needs to buy what, 14 players? Therefore he needs to find 14 footballers with an average salary of £2200 per week at a cost of no more than £25,000 each And he has about ten days to achieve that magnificent feat Now I'm not sure if I want Chinny in charge, or the trust, or the grim reaper! It really is a tough choice!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 So, according to the PCC document, Voldemort's 'warchest' with the trust in charge would be a whopping £350,000. With that he needs to buy what, 14 players? Therefore he needs to find 14 footballers with an average salary of £2200 per week at a cost of no more than £25,000 each And he has about ten days to achieve that magnificent feat Now I'm not sure if I want Chinny in charge, or the trust, or the grim reaper! It really is a tough choice!! We will get both. BC ra.ping them for a couple of years before he gives the club to PST, making him a hero, whilst renting them FP after moving it into a holding company thus excluding it from the "gift". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 (edited) So... Birch gave a Tuesday deadline for TBH to leave, or he'd have to start winding up proceedings, right? Just chalk another deadline up that means jack-**** down that way. Don't forget that LL is still hiding in the ticket office. Edited 7 August, 2012 by Jimmy_D fixing the swear filter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopGun Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 Points 5.5-5.8 clear up the £11m PPs. It basically says the current owner (now Trevor Birch) has the right to assign the PPs as he wishes prior to an admin exit. Thus TB can assign them to players (clearly something he has said he won't do apart from compromise payments) or his choice of new owner, Chainrai or the PST. So to get the whole mess off his hands, TB will be trying to see what BC will settle for after other assigned payments to football and any other secured creditors etc. Will he make a match and be able to disappear with no "blood on his hands" and a clean CV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopGun Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 (edited) It also doesn't appear to me that the PST has included PKF administrator costs in their proposal under football creditors by the relatively low amount assigned, although I could be wrong as there is no detail. Nevertheless, it's worth highlighting to Portsmouth Council for them to consider. So the following email has been sent to Cllr Gerald Vernon-Jackson and the other three councillors who have the Resources portfolio for the Lib Dems, Cons and Labour. Dear Councillor Vernon-Jackson, Like many others no doubt I have studied the PST loan proposal that the council intends to consider on Thursday. Without discussing the wider proposals put forward by the PST I note there is no reference to the PKF administrator costs which are believed to be in excess of £500,000 currently. This needs to be factored into the PST loan proposal by officers and councillors. Yours sincerely Edited 7 August, 2012 by TopGun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sussexsaint Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 How many Portsmouth players does it take to change a lightbulb ? Both of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suewhistle Posted 7 August, 2012 Share Posted 7 August, 2012 How many Portsmouth players does it take to change a lightbulb ? It doesn't matter. The electricity has been cut off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulSaint Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 How many Portsmouth players does it take to change a lightbulb ? Pew, Pew, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Fatin and Pipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony13579 Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 I am of course not a legal eagle but IF that trust do take over and then when it all goes bang will the main people running the trust become personally liable for the debts? OR will they like every other past "owner" seems to me to have done and just walk away and pay nothing? Not if it's a PLC I don't think Not quite right, public limited company has a listing on the stock exchange. Limited company gives its founders protection from going bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony13579 Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Johnny Westwood and his skinhead mates, corp, PFC123,Fred Dinage, 1670 of the bestest fans have been truly valued by thier city council... Goodwill= £1 :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 So, according to the PCC document, Voldemort's 'warchest' with the trust in charge would be a whopping £350,000. With that he needs to buy what, 14 players? Therefore he needs to find 14 footballers with an average salary of £2200 per week at a cost of no more than £25,000 each And he has about ten days to achieve that magnificent feat Now I'm not sure if I want Chinny in charge, or the trust, or the grim reaper! It really is a tough choice!! He'll get 3 or 4 loans from WBA for free if they do survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goneawol Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Not quite right, public limited company has a listing on the stock exchange. Limited company gives its founders protection from going bust. A PLC can be listed on a stock exchange, but it doesn't have to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andysstuff Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/pompey-squad-good-enough-for-promotion-1-4137808 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/pompey-squad-good-enough-for-promotion-1-4137808 Local Pompey rag in sticking two fingers up to the creditors who have lost c.£150million shocker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Davis, Lambert, Jaidhi, Lallana, Connolly, Schneiderlin, Fonte et al could not get us into the playoffs from minus 10. To say LL is deluded is an understatement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Davis, Lambert, Jaidhi, Lallana, Connolly, Schneiderlin, Fonte et al could not get us into the playoffs from minus 10. To say LL is deluded is an understatement! 90% of "people" down that way are deluded so why should he be different? I do mean different although some might say special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 (edited) Davis, Lambert, Jaidhi, Lallana, Connolly, Schneiderlin, Fonte et al could not get us into the playoffs from minus 10. To say LL is deluded is an understatement! What are you talking about? Magri and Thompson are twice the players that Jaidhi and Fonte could ever dream of being and Izale Mcleod makes Lambert look the paceless journeyman that everyone knows he really is. Brian Howard is Lionel Messi compared to Lallana and Schneiderlin knows he'd get totally schooled in the middle of the park by Gibraltar international Liam Walker. Edited 8 August, 2012 by Torres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterside.saint Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 What are you talking about? Magri and Thompson are twice the players that Jaidhi and Fonte could ever dream of being and Izale Mcleod makes Lambert look the paceless journeyman that everyone knows he really is. Brian Howard is Lionel Messi compared to Lallana and Schneiderlin knows he'd get totally schooled in the middle of the park by Gibraltar international Liam Walker. I see what you did there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazlo78 Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Local Pompey rag in sticking two fingers up to the creditors who have lost c.£150million shocker... This is a picture of Liam Lawrence: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sussexsaint Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Incredible comments on there ' why hasn't MA been given the green light for new signings?' Hmm I wonder.... They are in for a healthy slap of realism if they survive in to league 1 - fish have no legs therefore it is impossible for them to 'walk this league' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterside.saint Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 (edited) Incredible comments on there ' why hasn't MA been given the green light for new signings?' Hmm I wonder.... They are in for a healthy slap of realism if they survive in to league 1 - fish have no legs therefore it is impossible for them to 'walk this league' perhaps the most interesting aspect of all this is what they're *not* saying e.g. - why the FL won't let them sign anyone - why Trevor Birch's deadlines keep slipping away - why AA is now advising TBH One presumes that one day in the future at least one blockbuster book will be published exposing at least some of the sordid goings-on down there :suspicious: :suspicious: Edited 8 August, 2012 by Waterside.saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazlo78 Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Posted a link to the PCC loan application to a Pompey fan - his response was along the lines of: "A loan will come too late and TB isn't mentioning the trust anymore (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1129786/tal-ben-haim-key-to-portsmouth's-hopes-of-survival?cc=5739). They don't have the money. I saw their budget and they only expect £30.000 for maintenance of FP and want to close down the academy in 2 years even though we can't afford to buy players. Not a chance." I'll make the bold claim that he gets it. As for the document it is a great source of info for many of those issues that have been discussed numerous times - e.g. how much money does the PST have and how much has been pledged. Massive respect towards the PST for their efforts - they have dug up £1M which must have taken hard work! They have a dream of coming to the rescue and creating a club that will be the envy of the whole country, but TBH they should do the sensible thing and step away... their kamikaze plan is underfunded and built on so many assumptions and hopeful projections that it will be a monthly gamble to keep them running. Have NO worries that they will come storming up the leagues with the trust at the helm - they'll have to count every penny twice to keep the club afloat so there will be no crazy contracts. Even the PCC who could be excused for being biased bascially kicks the chair away from under the feet of the PST to leave them dangling. The report is full of reservations about the fragility and blind optimism of the whole PST budget and at the end of the report they ask: "do we really want to become part of that? If we say yes, then they'll be back for more as soon as their budget collapses..." I really like this part from Key Risks (8.5) - especially vii and viii: The most significant risks of providing financial loan support facing the City Council are as follows: i) The uncertainty generally surrounding the Board and the Management of the new Club and therefore its ability to deliver the Business Plan and therefore the prospect of a future liquidation and loan default. ii) The Investment from the Fan Share Scheme, Associate Director Scheme or High Net Worth Investors is lower than anticipated and as a consequence the Club does not have sufficient cash to operate. In these circumstances the Club would need to secure additional investment / loan funding and may request a further loan from the City Council in order for the City Council to safeguard its original investment iii) The £7.68m bid for the Club is not sufficient to avoid liquidation and the PST seek further loan support in order to increase its offer. iv) The Income or Expenditure expectations of the PST are over optimistic, the Club has a cash shortfall and then requests further loan support from the City Council in order to avoid liquidation (e.g. Income from Ticket Sales, Playing and Non Playing Salaries, future Ground maintenance liabilities). v) In the event of liquidation from any of the events described above, the security of the parachute payments will no longer exist. The City Council will then obtain title of Fratton Park. The City Council will not be able to realise any value from Fratton Park for at least 5 years and any value realised is likely to be less than the loan provided. vi) The City Council will itself borrow to fund any loan provided. In the event that the Club defaults on any loan provided then the City Council would be left with a loan that will need to be repaid but without any income stream to repay it. In these circumstances, the City Council would need to make equivalent savings from core City Council services to fund the repayment vii) The expectations of other sports, voluntary and community groups are raised such that they seek financial support from the City Council and the City Council is not in a position to satisfy them. viii) Expectations of the City Council as “financier” of the Club is raised, particularly with the Club and its supporters and the Club seeks further loan support from the City Council for other initiatives or developments, for example for acquisition of adjoining land. I think the PCC gets it too by thinking with their wallets (smart move! )... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsbridge Saint Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 so they survive i wonder which businesses will give the new club credit' date=' cash only surely[/quote'] That's exactly what I thought after the admin before this one. Honestly any new creditors this time around only have themselves to blame. And anyone getting caught next time around surely needs sectioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red and White Army Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 but TBH they should do the sensible thing and step away... Are you Trevor Birch in disguise, using subliminal hints like this? I do agree the whole PST bid is an absolute joke, they don't look like they have a hope in hell of being self sufficient in any time frame with their bid. For PTS enjoyment then, I absolutely hope the Council advances them the loan and we get months/years more hilarity watching them bumble and destroy the club even further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsbridge Saint Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Not if it's a PLC I don't think I'm pretty sure it's a Trust. Something in the name.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sussexsaint Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazlo78 Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 Are you Trevor Birch in disguise, using subliminal hints like this? I do agree the whole PST bid is an absolute joke, they don't look like they have a hope in hell of being self sufficient in any time frame with their bid. For PTS enjoyment then, I absolutely hope the Council advances them the loan and we get months/years more hilarity watching them bumble and destroy the club even further. I think they've done a good job, but they really need to make that very hard decision and admit that it just wasn't enough. Not because they lacked effort but because it was a lost cause from the start... and: TBH I love the TBH abbreviation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazlo78 Posted 8 August, 2012 Share Posted 8 August, 2012 That's exactly what I thought after the admin before this one. Honestly any new creditors this time around only have themselves to blame. And anyone getting caught next time around surely needs sectioning. [video=youtube_share;eKgPY1adc0A] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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