Pompey Takeover Saga

[Waterside.saint]

Look who have been left off the map at the National Museum of Football...

 

 

wtfiln :D :D :D :D

[trousers]

It's actually 0.4p for most (90 million of the first CVA) creditors.

 

1 million pays back 4k

 

The tax man alone has kissed good bye to over 31 million quid.

 

Then take into account the 90 million that was never paid from CVA 1 the additional 40 million of CVA 2 (Actually 60 but includes 20 million of first CVA) and the LOST tax on that 130 million (The people / companies would have paid tax if they had been paid ) You could argue that even at the basic rate that's another 39 million.

 

Giving a grand total of 70 million pounds missing from the public purse. Just so pompey could have a better team.

 

Excellent summary. Shame the media have chosen to airbrush such inconvenient statistics over the last few months.

[trousers]

So a club in the process of trying to shed £158m of debt, that threatens players who have the temerity to ask for what they are owed, that will reluctantly cough up 2p in the pound to creditors and local businesses they have gang-raped down the years, stayed at this five-star resort? http://www.barcelo.com/BarceloHotels/en_GB/hotels/Spain/Cadiz/hotel-barcelo-montecastillo-golf/general-description.aspx?ext=UK_SEM_GOB_H256&tmad=c&tmcampid=30&tmplaceref=Spain&gclid=CIm7o4mJwbECFSQhtAodW24AlQ

 

Prices range from 103 Euros per night (for B&B) to 162Euros per night (all inclusive).

 

The resort does 'specialise in hosting football clubs, so there might be some sort of corporate rate, but somebody with better maths than me will be able to work out the total cost based on rates, number of players, flights etc.

 

I could be wrong but I doubt they would have got much change out of £10,000. That's a hell of a generous sponsorship from Dave Ellis and the Gibraltar FA.

 

It would be interesting to know where other League One clubs went to prepare for their close season, you know, those clubs who live within their means and don't have delusions of grandeur that makes them continue to think it's fine and dandy to live beyond their means like some impoverished lord from a PG Wodehouse novel.

 

I liked this: http://www.barcelo.com/BarceloHotels/en_GB/hotels/Spain/Cadiz/hotel-barcelo-jerez-montecastillo-convention-center/football.aspx

 

Which details the football facilities and services.

 

The services include the daily laundry of two sets of football kit, which might well be the first wash the kit has had in months (unless the players take their own kit home to wash).

 

The special facilities also include a half-pitch for goalkeeper training, although it looks as though their whole squad could train on that.

 

The list of teams using the resort gives some idea of how expensive it must be. But no doubt, the phew will extol it as a virtue of the company they are able to keep.

 

Even if the whole trip was paid for, what sort of message does it send out to impoverished creditors and threatened high-earning players - let alone the rest of League One - that they can swan off to somewhere like this.

 

Scandalous. Utterly, utterly scandalous.

 

Indeed. And, a thought that crossed my mind....Does anyone know how the Gibraltar FA are funded? Would be 'mildly entertaining' to discover that the British Taxpayer has indirectly helped pay for Pompey's extravagant trip...

[Gemmel]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/birch-reflects-on-encouraging-week-1-4108560

 

So the deferals are being repaid over 4 years, Bari are getting there million spread over 4 years and Kanu's claim is going to be resolved by the Football League.

 

I'd probably need to check with Rallyboy, but sounds like they putting are everything on tick again and pushing more debt onto the future.

 

Same old same old

[trousers]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/birch-reflects-on-encouraging-week-1-4108560

 

So the deferals are being repaid over 4 years, Bari are getting there million spread over 4 years and Kanu's claim is going to be resolved by the Football League.

 

I'd probably need to check with Rallyboy, but sounds like they putting are everything on tick again and pushing more debt onto the future.

 

Same old same old

 

I know I bang on about it but I remain bemused as to why the football authorities spent years and no doubt millions of pounds in a court of law to protect their precious football creditors rules when clubs such as Pompey can ride rough shod over them. An extended deferral and diluting of payments makes a mockery of a set of rules designed to offer 100% protection to players etc.

 

Pompey...bending rules since the beginning of time...

[Saint in Paradise]

Will that be 4 equal payments every year or 1 payment after 4 years?

 

"Sorry men we have gone broke" says club spokesman just before payment is due.

[View From The Top]

The debts to the players will now be secured via the FC rule.

[pedg]

The debts to the players will now be secured via the FC rule.

 

But where will the money come from if the debts become due once the parachute payments are used up and they go pop again?

[trousers]

But where will the money come from if the debts become due once the parachute payments are used up and they go pop again?

 

That's the question no journalist on the planet has had the ingenuity to ask the football authorities yet.

[Waterside.saint]

The debts to the players will now be secured via the FC rule.

 

Permission to be confused? I thought the players were secured via the FC rule before all this happened

[Gemmel]

But where will the money come from if the debts become due once the parachute payments are used up and they go pop again?

 

Or if they are liquidated ...... Oh that's them parcahute payments again ;)

[sfc1976]

Help me out here lads, so now it looks like they're going to get away with it again? I mean if you had to provide odds for a 100% book, what would be your two percentages as things stand today survive/not survive?

 

The prospect of some 'roy of the rovers' style season whereby they storm the league with a bunch of kids, with the press fawning all over them, 'what an incredible story', 'back from the brink' etc etc makes me want to vomit.

[View From The Top]

Permission to be confused? I thought the players were secured via the FC rule before all this happened

 

The argument was that that debt would become null & void if the club was liquidated (this of course could still happen). This agreement now means that the debt now becomes secured if the club survives, which it will.

[trousers]

The debts to the players will now be secured via the FC rule.

 

Are you certain about that? Doesn't the fact that the leaving players (bar Kanu) have 'voluntarily' re-negotiated what they are owed (and the repayment terms) then it's a matter for the administrator to transfer the responsibility to 'NewNewCo' rather than the tab being picked up via FC 'insurance'. Doesn't that only kick in if the players stand their ground on existing contracts? I've no idea.

[View From The Top]

But where will the money come from if the debts become due once the parachute payments are used up and they go pop again?

 

There would be no comeback from that. We all know the only reason they are still breathing is the PP.

 

Their death is still a few years hence.

[View From The Top]

Are you certain about that? Doesn't the fact that the leaving players (bar Kanu) have 'voluntarily' re-negotiated what they are owed (and the repayment terms) then it's a matter for the administrator to transfer the responsibility to 'NewNewCo' rather than the tab being picked up via FC 'insurance'. Doesn't that only kick in if the players stand their ground on existing contracts? I've no idea.

 

I'm as certain as I can be & it's how a PST committee member explained his understanding of it to me.

[Saint in Paradise]

The argument was that that debt would become null & void if the club was liquidated (this of course could still happen). This agreement now means that the debt now becomes secured if the club survives, which it will.

 

So does this mean if chinny takes all the parachute money after 2 years and then pulls the plug the outstanding debtors won't get

all of the money they are still due?

The more things change the more they stay the same.

[trousers]

There would be no comeback from that. We all know the only reason they are still breathing is the PP.

 

Their death is still a few years hence.

 

Do we know the date of the last parachute payment? Sometime in 2014? I'll set my alarm.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Huseklepp wrote off all money owed to him by Pompey in a remarkable gesture. MUG

 

In addition, Bari have agreed for the outstanding £1m in the transfer of Huseklepp last August to be paid back from next year – over 24 months. MUGS

 

It is understood the other three recent departures also walked away from money owed – in addition to receiving their deferrals over four years. MUGS

 

Has Chinny "agreed" or "promised" to pay off over the 4 years....?...

 

 

Meanwhile, Norris left for Elland Road on a free after agreeing to cancel the remaining two years of his contract at no cost. AND ANOTHER MUG

 

How can anyone anywhere believe any anybody will ever get a penny?..... Gullible in the extreme...

[Gemmel]

Help me out here lads, so now it looks like they're going to get away with it again? I mean if you had to provide odds for a 100% book, what would be your two percentages as things stand today survive/not survive?

 

The prospect of some 'roy of the rovers' style season whereby they storm the league with a bunch of kids, with the press fawning all over them, 'what an incredible story', 'back from the brink' etc etc makes me want to vomit.

 

I'm fairly sure they will survive, although there is some irony in the fact that the main obstacle to their survival appears to be the man they refer to as the "king" and being the scorer of their fa cup winner.

 

But there's survival and there's survival....... They will be run on an absolute shoestring (Regardless of whether the trust or Chinny takes them over) will still have a CVA to honour and the deferals and other football debts to pay. Then of course there is minus ten points and with less than three weeks to the start of the season they don't have any players. Relegation is a real possibility and then that's them done for the foreseeable future.

 

Personally for me, it's the perfect scenario, especially as our fortunes are at a complete opposite from theirs .

[View From The Top]

I'm fairly sure they will survive, although there is some irony in the fact that the main obstacle to their survival appears to be the man they refer to as the "king" and being the scorer of their fa cup winner.

 

But there's survival and there's survival....... They will be run on an absolute shoestring (Regardless of whether the trust or Chinny takes them over) will still have a CVA to honour and the deferals and other football debts to pay. Then of course there is minus ten points and with less than three weeks to the start of the season they don't have any players. Relegation is a real possibility and then that's them done for the foreseeable future.

 

Personally for me, it's the perfect scenario, especially as our fortunes are at a complete opposite from theirs .

 

I'll agree with that, especially as I got on the relegation betting bus early!

 

Seeing them suffer in the lower reaches of L2 will do me.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Strikes me that many of the owed parties have not thought this through with much rationale...

 

Insolvent fc have shafted just about everyone over many years...

So why would these people think they will ever get paid...they must be completely stupid..

 

If Insolvent fc actually do manage to survive to continue, where do these people think the money

will come from to pay these deferrals/debts etc....? From a struggling L1/L2/Conference/non league clubs profits......Again they must be stupid!

 

Perhaps the Loan Shark has "promised to" out of the "goodness" of his heart...

[pedg]

So? this tribunal for Kanu? It was suggested that something like that could be kicked into the long grass for an extended period but I guess they either can't kick it into there long enough or don't want it hanging over then. Wonder what the likely result is going to be? Birch must be pretty sure to try and go that route but it is another event that is outside their control. I wonder when he says 'as soon as possible' what sort of time frame that refers to, days, weeks or months?

[Kingsbridge Saint]

They should be out of the Football League. Blue Square at best. If they get there falling through the divisions that will do for me. If they start signing players other L1 clubs want, then its the end of any integrity in English football. Scotland showed the way to deal with rule bending cheats. And pompeys crimes are far far worse than those of rangers. Hopefully that 5 year shackle the FL have on them will take them all the way down.

[andysstuff]

Looks like they'll get away with it now - although the fun will continue with an uncompetitive squad fo the bext few years.

 

The only potential banana skin could be the Kanu tribunal - it's probably the best chance for the FL to punish them for not sticking to the spirit of the FC rule now.

Edited 30 July, 2012 by andysstuff
typo

[View From The Top]

Looks like they'll get away with it now - although the fun will continue with an uncometative squad fo the bext few years.

 

The only potential banana skin could be the Kanu tribunal - it's probably the best chance for the FL to punish them for not sticking to the spirit of the FC rule now.

 

They were never going to get liquidated this time round & this simply prolongs their struggle.

[Gemmel]

So? this tribunal for Kanu? It was suggested that something like that could be kicked into the long grass for an extended period but I guess they either can't kick it into there long enough or don't want it hanging over then. Wonder what the likely result is going to be? Birch must be pretty sure to try and go that route but it is another event that is outside their control. I wonder when he says 'as soon as possible' what sort of time frame that refers to, days, weeks or months?

 

Its a good question pedg. My money would be on the fact that Chainrai doesn't want the club with this potential liability (Remember whatever amount they conclude is owed will be a football debt) and Birch has been forced to address it now. If Chinny really is at breaking point as to what terms he will accept, and which ones he won't, there is the potential for a few more twists and turns yet.

 

Birch has also said this morning, no players in until the portins demands are met. No idea if that is a FL ruling or Chainrai's but I am begining to think Chanrai is ready to walk. Birch knows the trust is a lame duck and pledges don't pay wages.

[rallyboy]

what's this sudden 'deal' with Kanu?

Did I doze off and miss ten pages??

 

It sounds like Birch is saying the nasty cartoon villain has left -driven away by the brave battling few, he's claiming a great victory.

 

Has Kanu really gone, or is he still in a legal dispute with his employer and refusing to return off garden leave until it's sorted?

 

 

I'd be astonished if the plucky players ever see a single penny of their deferred wages - like the creditors before them, they have voted for their plums to get a sturdy kicking.

The club has a culture of institutionalised self-harming.

 

 

regards

Astonished and confused of Nutjobtown.

[Doctoroncall]

It's actually 0.4p for most (90 million of the first CVA) creditors.

 

1 million pays back 4k

 

The tax man alone has kissed good bye to over 31 million quid.

 

Then take into account the 90 million that was never paid from CVA 1 the additional 40 million of CVA 2 (Actually 60 but includes 20 million of first CVA) and the LOST tax on that 130 million (The people / companies would have paid tax if they had been paid ) You could argue that even at the basic rate that's another 39 million.

 

Giving a grand total of 70 million pounds missing from the public purse. Just so pompey could have a better team.

 

And Rangers got liquidated for a similar amount of tax owed.

[The9]

+1 nutjob.

 

A good opportunity to wear my new Saints shirt.

 

They won't know what it is.

[The9]

And Rangers got liquidated for a similar amount of tax owed.

 

But Rangers liquidated voluntarily after HMRC blocked their CVA, AND they didn't have the benefit of millions of pounds owed to hundreds of others who weren't HMRC which diluted HMRC's CVA voting rights preventing them doing the same for the Skate Cheats.

[derry]

Down to the wire time. If I was TBH or Kitson knowing we were the last two, I would want to call Birch's bluff and see if Chanrai put's up or walks away. As Chanrai has to settle all football debts if he takes over, as a condition from the League before PFC would be accepted into the League div 1, those debts could definitely now include Kanu, so there is still problems for them.

[pedg]

what's this sudden 'deal' with Kanu?

Did I doze off and miss ten pages??

 

It sounds like Birch is saying the nasty cartoon villain has left -driven away by the brave battling few, he's claiming a great victory.

 

Has Kanu really gone, or is he still in a legal dispute with his employer and refusing to return off garden leave until it's sorted?

 

 

I'd be astonished if the plucky players ever see a single penny of their deferred wages - like the creditors before them, they have voted for their plums to get a sturdy kicking.

The club has a culture of institutionalised self-harming.

 

 

regards

Astonished and confused of Nutjobtown.

 

It sounds like Kanu has exercised his right to give 14 days notice and has now left. He has still not reached agreement on his demands, hence the tribunal.

[View From The Top]

It sounds like Kanu has exercised his right to give 14 days notice and has now left. He has still not reached agreement on his demands, hence the tribunal.

 

Yep.

[alpine_saint]

It's actually 0.4p for most (90 million of the first CVA) creditors.

 

1 million pays back 4k

 

The tax man alone has kissed good bye to over 31 million quid.

 

Then take into account the 90 million that was never paid from CVA 1 the additional 40 million of CVA 2 (Actually 60 but includes 20 million of first CVA) and the LOST tax on that 130 million (The people / companies would have paid tax if they had been paid ) You could argue that even at the basic rate that's another 39 million.

 

Giving a grand total of 70 million pounds missing from the public purse. Just so pompey could have a better team.

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/birch-reflects-on-encouraging-week-1-4108560

 

So the deferals are being repaid over 4 years, Bari are getting there million spread over 4 years and Kanu's claim is going to be resolved by the Football League.

 

I'd probably need to check with Rallyboy, but sounds like they putting are everything on tick again and pushing more debt onto the future.

 

Same old same old

 

Jesus, this is just plain f**king mental. How have they got the bare-faced cheek to do this ? WTF does this say about the FL when they allow this ?

 

Its just going to allow another round of shafting - its as plain as the nose on my face that Chinny hasnt got the slightest interest in the football.

 

I'll say it again - just what does the DFCSBs have on the Football league ?

[Verbal]

Kanu (via tribunal), Kitson and especially TBH remain huge contractual and financial roadblocks in avoiding liquidation. This has a few more twists and turns to go before the deadline.

[pedg]

Yep.

 

Possibly a good move as they can't get him now one assumes for breach of contract as long as he has proof that he told them he would initially be in Nigeria at the start of training and they acknowledged that. One assumes the amount he is trying to claim is larger than his remaining wages so he gives up the latter to concentrate on the former without then having to turn up for training.

[The9]

Come on now people, even if they do manage to get the other wage earners off the bill there is still no guarantee that either potential buyer will actually go ahead under the criteria that the FL set out.

[alpine_saint]

Huseklepp wrote off all money owed to him by Pompey in a remarkable gesture. MUG

 

In addition, Bari have agreed for the outstanding £1m in the transfer of Huseklepp last August to be paid back from next year – over 24 months. MUGS

 

It is understood the other three recent departures also walked away from money owed – in addition to receiving their deferrals over four years. MUGS

 

Has Chinny "agreed" or "promised" to pay off over the 4 years....?...

 

 

Meanwhile, Norris left for Elland Road on a free after agreeing to cancel the remaining two years of his contract at no cost. AND ANOTHER MUG

 

How can anyone anywhere believe any anybody will ever get a penny?..... Gullible in the extreme...

 

This.

 

Really, this "Plucky Pompey" tripe has to stop, and the rest of football shjould be ostracising them for the cheats, bullies and swindling con-men they are.

[The9]

Jesus, this is just plain f**king mental. How have they got the bare-faced cheek to do this ? WTF does this say about the FL when they allow this ?

 

Its just going to allow another round of shafting - its as plain as the nose on my face that Chinny hasnt got the slightest interest in the football.

 

I'll say it again - just what does the DFCSBs have on the Football league ?

 

The FL haven't "allowed" anything yet. As it stands there are 23 teams in League One next season and no-one has Team 24's Golden share.

[alpine_saint]

Come on now people, even if they do manage to get the other wage earners off the bill there is still no guarantee that either potential buyer will actually go ahead under the criteria that the FL set out.

 

Made a similar point earlier, about what Chinny will do if his bluff is called.

[yoda]

So a club in the process of trying to shed £158m of debt, that threatens players who have the temerity to ask for what they are owed, that will reluctantly cough up 2p in the pound to creditors and local businesses they have gang-raped down the years, stayed at this five-star resort? http://www.barcelo.com/BarceloHotels/en_GB/hotels/Spain/Cadiz/hotel-barcelo-montecastillo-golf/general-description.aspx?ext=UK_SEM_GOB_H256&tmad=c&tmcampid=30&tmplaceref=Spain&gclid=CIm7o4mJwbECFSQhtAodW24AlQ

 

Prices range from 103 Euros per night (for B&B) to 162Euros per night (all inclusive).

 

The resort does 'specialise in hosting football clubs, so there might be some sort of corporate rate, but somebody with better maths than me will be able to work out the total cost based on rates, number of players, flights etc.

 

I could be wrong but I doubt they would have got much change out of £10,000. That's a hell of a generous sponsorship from Dave Ellis and the Gibraltar FA.

 

It would be interesting to know where other League One clubs went to prepare for their close season, you know, those clubs who live within their means and don't have delusions of grandeur that makes them continue to think it's fine and dandy to live beyond their means like some impoverished lord from a PG Wodehouse novel.

 

I liked this: http://www.barcelo.com/BarceloHotels/en_GB/hotels/Spain/Cadiz/hotel-barcelo-jerez-montecastillo-convention-center/football.aspx

 

Which details the football facilities and services.

 

The services include the daily laundry of two sets of football kit, which might well be the first wash the kit has had in months (unless the players take their own kit home to wash).

 

The special facilities also include a half-pitch for goalkeeper training, although it looks as though their whole squad could train on that.

 

The list of teams using the resort gives some idea of how expensive it must be. But no doubt, the phew will extol it as a virtue of the company they are able to keep.

 

Even if the whole trip was paid for, what sort of message does it send out to impoverished creditors and threatened high-earning players - let alone the rest of League One - that they can swan off to somewhere like this.

 

Scandalous. Utterly, utterly scandalous.

 

But the real question is did the hotel lay on bog roll or did Voldemort have to do the honours again?

[lifeintheslowlane]

I can only see all this horse trading as smokescreen. The real deal breaker is the handcuff's the FL has put on any future owner in carrying forward a large amount of debt into NewCo. Player debt is only a part of the equation.

[Secret Site Agent]

Jesus, this is just plain f**king mental. How have they got the bare-faced cheek to do this ? WTF does this say about the FL when they allow this ?

 

Its just going to allow another round of shafting - its as plain as the nose on my face that Chinny hasnt got the slightest interest in the football.

 

I'll say it again - just what does the DFCSBs have on the Football league ?

 

As the great Lord Suger put it, 'It's bloody,bloody nuts!!! and it wouldn't be allowed anywhere else in football'.

 

It makes me wonder, not just why they are fighting to keep Pompey alive, but why they treat other teams differently.

 

It's ****ing cloud cookoo land, and not only stinks to high heaven, I expect Oliver Stone to make a thriller about it.

[The9]

As the great Lord Suger put it, 'It's bloody,bloody nuts!!! and it wouldn't be allowed anywhere else in football'.

 

It makes me wonder, not just why they are fighting to keep Pompey alive, but why they treat other teams differently.

 

It's ****ing cloud cookoo land, and not only stinks to high heaven, I expect Oliver Stone to make a thriller about it.

 

Please produce one example of when they have treated a team differently in the same circumstances under the same rules. It simply has not happened.

[Verbal]

The Kanu tribunal almost certainly guarantees that the bill for debts to players will not be known by 10 August. And no one from PFC is yet commenting on the anticipated bill to football creditors - it'll be a comfortable seven-figure sum however this works out.

[The Kraken]

Come on now people, even if they do manage to get the other wage earners off the bill there is still no guarantee that either potential buyer will actually go ahead under the criteria that the FL set out.

 

You're joking, right? The Trust are absolutely desperate to get their shot at fame, whether they drive the club further into the financial mire or not. If they were permitted to do it I reckon they'd take it on even with the hige wage earners in place. They have a desperation to be seen as uber, plucky fans saving the club from oblivion and there is very little that will stand in thei way to achieve that.

 

Saying that, I'd p*ss myself laughing if Chinny decided it wasn't worth the effort and then the trust failed to actually raise the funding required.

[The9]

You're joking, right? The Trust are absolutely desperate to get their shot at fame, whether they drive the club further into the financial mire or not. If they were permitted to do it I reckon they'd take it on even with the hige wage earners in place. They have a desperation to be seen as uber, plucky fans saving the club from oblivion and there is very little that will stand in thei way to achieve that.

 

Saying that, I'd p*ss myself laughing if Chinny decided it wasn't worth the effort and then the trust failed to actually raise the funding required.

 

The Trust being desperate to oversee the club despite the complete lack of investment they have, showing everyone how not to do things whilst reeling in the face of a load of semi-interested no-longer-fans criticising them at every turn for not investing massive sums to get them into the Premier League/Championship/out of League One relegation zone would be entertaining, but still not as much fun as them just... stopping.

[Weston Super Saint]

Anyone got a link to the FL's conditions that they have imposed in order to receive the golden share?

 

That way we can all remind ourselves just how much 'secured' debt Chinny will have to throw into the sea in order to get his hands on the PPs - £3m of which appear to be going straight into Kanu's pocket

 

To me, I still don't see what Chinny gains by taking them over again - apart from giving the nutjobs more giggles!

 

Let's not forget that with only a couple of weeks before the season starts, they still only have 3 senior players - none of whom want to play for them anyway - and aren't allowed to sign any new players until a new owner comes in and agrees to the FL's demands

 

That just leaves the trust in first place to take over, but they haven't got any money, and as far as I'm aware, haven't even put a formal bid in to the administrator!! With organisation like that, even if by some miracle they managed to take control, they wouldn't have a hope in hell of putting a team together in a fortnight.

 

So, are they dead yet? Definitely not.

 

Have they gotten away with it? ROFPMSFL no they haven't

[alpine_saint]

The Kanu tribunal almost certainly guarantees that the bill for debts to players will not be known by 10 August. And no one from PFC is yet commenting on the anticipated bill to football creditors - it'll be a comfortable seven-figure sum however this works out.

 

what are you saying then ? That this is all a smoke-and-mirrors act and the DFCSBs cant possibly survive past 10 August ?

 

My birthday is the 11th. I will tell my missus to take the Star Wars Lego and her kinky nurse costume back to the shops - Pompey going puff in a cloud of smoke is all the birthday pressie I'll need.