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Pompey Takeover Saga


Fitzhugh Fella

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I think the point of contention is that the secured creditors of the club will get what can be made from the liquidation but if the league decided that the parachute payments go to the football creditors first then that's not going to be much for chinny. The question is can the PL play hard and fast with who gets the PP. Birch assumes in his document they go to the club but that may be wrong?

 

The Parachute Payments will only get paid if there is a football club. If they get liquidated there is no one to pay them to.

 

It will be interesting to know if the PL pays the PP money to the Football League before it gets to the clubs. For example West Hams PPs will get paid to the FL and shared out because they went straight back up. I would expect the same rule will apply to pompey if they get liquidated.

 

My guess is that if PFC are liquidated the PPs will go to the FL who will pay all football creditors in full and anything left over shared out amongst the other members.

Edited by aintforever
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I agree with Si re PPs and FC rule, and Aint makes an interesting point about distribution - that could work.

 

 

 

In liquidation the football clubs owed money may have had it, but the players will become the property of the FL and thus their outstanding monies will not be easily ignored.

They may have to get old payments built into new contracts, but they will have leverage as they are free agents of sorts.

 

Complications might arise if say pompey still owe money for a player.

The old selling club might have a claim on them as it is goods that has been defaulted on.

 

Tis a big bumper drum of worms that no one wants to open!

 

The current game of poker is simpler.

If the club exists they will get millions in PP money.

The players are entitled to this money.

If they let the club rip them off, the club gets the PPs and makes a fortune out of them.

If the players demand the PP money, the club will fold and there will be no PP money.

The club cannot afford to blink, the players have every right not to blink.

They are locked in a big suicide pact.

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Scudamore has stated, that the PL can settle football creditors debts by witholding the parcahute payments.

 

I might be looking at this in the wrong way, but that sounds to me like they will withold the PP's the pay any football creditors and hence uphold the FCR.

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Scudamore has stated, that the PL can settle football creditors debts by witholding the parcahute payments.

 

I might be looking at this in the wrong way, but that sounds to me like they will withold the PP's the pay any football creditors and hence uphold the FCR.

 

I'd say your interpretation is right. When Pompey were in the Premier League, prior to going into administration, the PL used TV money to pay clubs they owed money to before Pompey got a penny, so the PL's priority is clearly football creditors. They did advance PPs to Pompey that season, but I always thought that was more to prevent damage to their precious image than anything else.

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Scudamore has stated, that the PL can settle football creditors debts by witholding the parcahute payments.

 

I might be looking at this in the wrong way, but that sounds to me like they will withold the PP's the pay any football creditors and hence uphold the FCR.

 

Precedent is for clubs to be paid stage payments due for player transfers, but it has never been reported that PPs have been withheld to pay players.

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Are we all ready for another twist...

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/pompey-land-may-be-sold-as-part-of-the-football-club-1-4041556

 

LAND owned by former Pompey owner Sacha Gaydamak could be sold as part of the football club, The News can exclusively reveal.

 

Mr Gaydamak’s land, which surrounds Fratton Park, is being sold after he and the other directors put his firm Miland Development 2004 Ltd into administration.

The company owns land including the stadium car park, the former Pompey offices in Anson Road, and other areas dotted around the ground.

 

Administrator Glyn Middleton, of David Rubin and Partners, said he would be approaching Pompey’s administrator, Trevor Birch of PKF, to see whether a deal could be done to include the land in the sale of the football club.

 

....

 

But there is a fly in the ointment – the firm in charge of liquidating the old Pompey company, which went into administration in 2010, says Mr Gaydamak is not the legal owner of the land, and it should belong to Portsmouth Football Club.

 

Baker Tilly has begun proceedings against both Miland Developments and Sacha Gaydamak personally in order to seize the land and to sell it off in order to benefit Pompey’s creditors from 2010.

Edited by pedg
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Yep.... Certainly a twist.

 

So Baker Tilley sueing on behalf of the 2010 creditors - Is that why they agreed to the latest CVA?

 

Who knows, can't think it changes much, but intresting to hear that Sacha might be skint. That's a few million quids worth he has let go there.

Edited by Gemmel
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The Parachute Payments will only get paid if there is a football club. If they get liquidated there is no one to pay them to.

 

It will be interesting to know if the PL pays the PP money to the Football League before it gets to the clubs. For example West Hams PPs will get paid to the FL and shared out because they went straight back up. I would expect the same rule will apply to pompey if they get liquidated.

 

My guess is that if PFC are liquidated the PPs will go to the FL who will pay all football creditors in full and anything left over shared out amongst the other members.

No need to guess or expect. Most (but not all) of it is in the PL rules. The PP money will be paid whether there is a football club or not.

 

How can they pay money to a club that doesn't exist?

 

They can't, so in that case the remaining PPs will be paid either to football creditors or to the other PL clubs. That is in the rules.

 

If they are liquidated the FCR is meaningless.

 

That might be true (but it might not if there is another OldCo/NewCo scam), but even so the football creditors will still exist. The FCR says that football creditors must be paid in full. The PL rules say that the PL can divert payments due, including PPs, to football creditors to go towards complying with the FCR. It doesn't say that the PL will pay football creditors in full if there isn't enough to withold. If the PL witholds all paments due, and pays directly to football creditors, and football creditors are still owed money, the club either has to pay up or lose it's Golden Shares.

 

I think the point of contention is that the secured creditors of the club will get what can be made from the liquidation but if the league decided that the parachute payments go to the football creditors first then that's not going to be much for chinny. The question is can the PL play hard and fast with who gets the PP. Birch assumes in his document they go to the club but that may be wrong?

 

I pretty much agree, except that Birch only assumes that the PPs go to the club if Chainrai's deal succeeds, but not if they are liquidated.

 

It is also questionable what happens to parachute payments in the event of liquidation. My understanding is that these may well be withheld by the PL and then divided amongst PL members. This is reinforced by the Justice Mann's judgement on the original CVA following HMRC's challenge.

 

It is correct that they will be witheld. However, I think what Mann said is that the PL rules say, under rule 59, that the PPs won't go to the liquidated club. He doesn't say whether they will go to other PL clubs or football creditors.

 

Precedent is for clubs to be paid stage payments due for player transfers, but it has never been reported that PPs have been withheld to pay players.

 

I have no idea on precedent, but employee wage arrears are included in the definition of football creditors in article C.63.7 of the PL rules. However, there are other definitions in other articles where they are not included.

 

 

 

 

The only uncertainty lies in the definition of "football creditors" in the PL rules if a club is liquidated after relegation from the PL but still due to receive PPs. I haven't been able to find it conclusively, so I think they'll have to make up a new one.

 

The nub of this whole thing is that the PPs are rightly due to the football creditors, principally players, and if the so-called "compromise agreements" on offer were to split the incoming PPs among the players over the next two years, the deals would be done and people would move on. But that's not what Chainrai has offered. His bid is based on him paying the football creditors listed in Birch's CVA document (c.£8.4m) and keeping the rest of the PPs (c.£5.6m) for himself. BC has stated that moving the players on is not his problem, and Birch has to do that without any cost to BC. I admit I'm only guessing here, but I think the "compromise agreements" are basically "we'll let you go on a free if you waive all your future entitlement, and all of your deferred wages since the end of June". Compromise in name only, to give them a sniff of getting the Golden Shares.

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Bigger site for Tescos/monkey petting zoo joint venture?

 

Indeed. As far as pompey goes IF chinny (and he is the only likely purchaser and probably too late for anyone new?) takes over he is not going to want to spend the money redeveloping the stadium that needs this land.

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as if this saga wasn't complicated already!

Anyone know what on earth the arms dealers are up to this time?

 

 

I can see the reason for spinning the availability of this land as a positive thing for selling the club, but it isn't quite that simple.

 

A company interested in developing the whole site will be excited at the prospect of a bigger bundle but Birch is trying to sell a business with horrendous issues, not a strip of development land.

Unless of course a chronically-shy billionaire pompey fan pops up now and offers to build a new stadium.

 

The land also appears to be at the heart of a massive legal wrangle that will go on for ages, so if anything it is of less use to the club than it was when owned by the child-maimer.

 

So immediate thought is that if the legal situation can be clarified, it will be a nice little purchase for someone, post-liquidation.

But not much use now.

 

Unless someone can spot a clever stunt that the main players are actually pulling here?....

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as if this saga wasn't complicated already!

Anyone know what on earth the arms dealers are up to this time?

 

Who knows? All the land is, as far as we know based on the infamous article, mortgaged via various banks. One assumed they are now the preferred creditors for the company in administration? Is the land worth what it is mortgaged for?

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So, there is an opportunity for Saints fans to club together, buy the land surrounding FP and deny access on or across the land every Saturday from August to May.

 

If the judge are too spineless to put them out of business, I bet Saints fans won't be :)

 

Anyone got Nicola's number?

 

Bet we could raise the required funds at £1000 a pop quicker than PST!

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as if this saga wasn't complicated already!

Anyone know what on earth the arms dealers are up to this time?

 

 

I can see the reason for spinning the availability of this land as a positive thing for selling the club, but it isn't quite that simple.

 

A company interested in developing the whole site will be excited at the prospect of a bigger bundle but Birch is trying to sell a business with horrendous issues, not a strip of development land.

Unless of course a chronically-shy billionaire pompey fan pops up now and offers to build a new stadium.

 

The land also appears to be at the heart of a massive legal wrangle that will go on for ages, so if anything it is of less use to the club than it was when owned by the child-maimer.

 

So immediate thought is that if the legal situation can be clarified, it will be a nice little purchase for someone, post-liquidation.

But not much use now.

 

Unless someone can spot a clever stunt that the main players are actually pulling here?....

 

 

Or, as Kenny Everett would have said, a "Cunning Stunt" is needed

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I see 2 possibilities, and neither are good news for the phew. It's the timing that is most intriguing.

 

Either the Directors have put Miland into admin to walk away from negative equity in the land as part of an arrangement to facilitate a firesale to a secretive offshore Company based in the BVI while the land is still "encumbered" by having a football pitch in it's midst,

 

or

 

The banks have forced SG's hand now because they believe that PFC are about to be liquidated and the land will have added value, giving them a better chance of covering their debt.

 

 

There will probably be a fight between BT & Miland's admin over who is entitled to the money, but I don't see that interfering with the sale. BT don't want land they want cash.

 

If Chainrai ends up owning Miland's land, their prospects look bleak. He won't be planning that new stadium development they've all been looking forward to. Will he get his money back?

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I see 2 possibilities, and neither are good news for the phew. It's the timing that is most intriguing.

 

Either the Directors have put Miland into admin to walk away from negative equity in the land as part of an arrangement to facilitate a firesale to a secretive offshore Company based in the BVI while the land is still "encumbered" by having a football pitch in it's midst,

 

or

 

The banks have forced SG's hand now because they believe that PFC are about to be liquidated and the land will have added value, giving them a better chance of covering their debt.

 

 

There will probably be a fight between BT & Miland's admin over who is entitled to the money, but I don't see that interfering with the sale. BT don't want land they want cash.

 

If Chainrai ends up owning Miland's land, their prospects look bleak. He won't be planning that new stadium development they've all been looking forward to. Will he get his money back?

lets hope its pompey being liguidated.
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http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/keepers-battle-it-out-to-claim-place-on-pompey-tour-1-4040783

 

Laurie has a lot of strengths and a lot of weaknesses but he is a young lad, willing to learn.

 

He has come to the right football club at the right time because, hopefully, we will have a good new group of young players, desperate to learn and be successful.

 

 

They so make my day down there, every day a larf!!!!!

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http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/kanu-remains-in-nigeria-as-absence-rumbles-on-1-4040705

 

I particularly enjoyed the last line - Pompey fan Bob Beech, 45, from Milton, added: ‘He is another one of football’s spoilt brats.

 

‘Kanu has done very nicely out of Pompey and football in general but surely there is time when morals take over?’

 

They just don't get the concept of 'irony' on the inbred isle of Portsea, do they?

 

Kanu's fall from grace among the phew is just one more little twist of the knife isn't it? I'm almost starting to feel that, whatever happens in the next few weeks, that they are getting their just desserts at last -

Their cup-winning hero refusing to play as a financial dispute lumbers on, costing them money and tarnishing their cherished memories.

Their brightest young players gone for a song.

Their 'best' players going for free, eventually, after having every last penny they can get.

Looking at non-league goalies and out-of-contract has-beens to base their squad on.

They can't even sign a non-league coach.

League One at best, and still likely to get a points deduction.

No likelihood of ever fixing the clock and getting the fat out of the pipes.

Karma may work its magic slower than we would like, but work it, it shall.

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http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/keepers-battle-it-out-to-claim-place-on-pompey-tour-1-4040783

 

Laurie has a lot of strengths and a lot of weaknesses but he is a young lad, willing to learn.

 

He has come to the right football club at the right time because, hopefully, we will have a good new group of young players, desperate to learn and be successful.

 

 

They so make my day down there, every day a larf!!!!!

 

 

He's right about the desperate bit

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http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/kanu-remains-in-nigeria-as-absence-rumbles-on-1-4040705

 

I particularly enjoyed the last line - Pompey fan Bob Beech, 45, from Milton, added: ‘He is another one of football’s spoilt brats.

 

‘Kanu has done very nicely out of Pompey and football in general but surely there is time when morals take over?’

 

They just don't get the concept of 'irony' on the inbred isle of Portsea, do they?

 

Kanu's fall from grace among the phew is just one more little twist of the knife isn't it? I'm almost starting to feel that, whatever happens in the next few weeks, that they are getting their just desserts at last -

Their cup-winning hero refusing to play as a financial dispute lumbers on, costing them money and tarnishing their cherished memories.

Their brightest young players gone for a song.

Their 'best' players going for free, eventually, after having every last penny they can get.

Looking at non-league goalies and out-of-contract has-beens to base their squad on.

They can't even sign a non-league coach.

League One at best, and still likely to get a points deduction.

No likelihood of ever fixing the clock and getting the fat out of the pipes.

Karma may work its magic slower than we would like, but work it, it shall.

 

 

MORALS

 

Best joke of the week

 

Look up what the word means you Thick Tw*t

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http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/kanu-remains-in-nigeria-as-absence-rumbles-on-1-4040705

And Pompey’s administrator is also threatening to call in the Professional Footballers’ Association (PFA) if Kanu’s training boycott continues.

 

However, if it is a continued absence we will have to bring in the PFA

 

Oh please, do it. I don't think you'll be getting much assistance....

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It's disappointing that Kanu is playing into Birch's hands like this. Can we send a PTS delegation over to Nigeria to persuade him to go to the rec with the other players and kick a ball?

 

I've got some spare airmiles, but am really busy at work at the moment. Could we send Alps just before the first match day thread of the season?

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Is it me or is this Neil guy looking a bit more like a mini Goebbels as this whole thing plays out?

 

It's like he is spinning every story possible into some positive propoganda rather then actually be a journalist and report the real news.

 

Like this Kanu thing. He talks about possibly terminating his contract because he is in Nigeria.

For the past few weeks he has pretty much been running a hate campaign against the guy so can you blame him? He has been making it look like Kanu wants to kill the club as all he wants is his cash. All the good positive things he did now mean nothing. He is enemy number one. I bet he was really hoping Tal didn't show up so he could include him in his hate campaign too.

 

Then to come out with that piece trying to play the morals card talking about things like breach of contract is just mind blowing. It's like it doesn't matter if Pompey screw over local companies, local charities and break every contract they have signed but the minute you do that to them then it becomes a big deal! If Kanu and Tal had not done the deferal thing on their wages would Pompey still be going now? Probably not.

By going down the route Neil Allen and the club have they make themselves look hypocritical. If they go down the legal route then they won't have a leg to stand on because in the real world the company would of been put out of it's misery ages ago. The moment they stopped paying him he didn't need to be there anymore.

 

Doing this won't make Kanu leave it will make him more determined then ever before to get his money, all of it. It seems to me that this Neil Allen guy really knows the club is screwed and is now painting the picture that Kanu is to blame. When they don't come out with the CVA it won't be about how Pompey lied and cheated people it will be about how Kanu killed the club.

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Is it me or is this Neil guy looking a bit more like a mini Goebbels as this whole thing plays out?

 

It's like he is spinning every story possible into some positive propoganda rather then actually be a journalist and report the real news.

 

His newspaper is already making jobcuts. If Portsmouth's only professional football club goes under, then cuts will be probably be made on the already large sports desk. He probably thinks it is in his interest to be Portsmouth's version of this...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9aW1atFLMM

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http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/kanu-remains-in-nigeria-as-absence-rumbles-on-1-4040705

 

I particularly enjoyed the last line - Pompey fan Bob Beech, 45, from Milton, added: ‘He is another one of football’s spoilt brats.

 

‘Kanu has done very nicely out of Pompey and football in general but surely there is time when morals take over?’

 

Or you could say it another way .................

 

 

Pompey have done very nicely out of free training grounds, car hire, hotels, charities, St Johns Ambulance, builders, caterers, ....could be here all day ....

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pompey preaching about morals, UnAppy telling us players have breached their contracts, Avram setting up a marriage guidance counselling service, Al Fahim telling us to buy larger shirts, Storrie telling us not to rely so heavily on credit as might overstretch ourselves, Lampitt emphasising the wisdom of adhering to a strict budget......difficult to spot the odd ones out. :o

 

We just need Gaydamak releasing his version of Give Peace a Chance surrounded by one-legged child dancers and we've seen it all.

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Can pompey afford for Ben Haim to leave?

 

In one of the 'stick Kanu on a bonfire' articles it says:

 

Currently operating at a £5,000-a-week ceiling, players will receive any outstanding monies upon their departure.

 

so if TBH left on a free they would still need to find the money to pay him all his outstanding wages/image rights which, I would guess, is now quite substantial for a club with virtually no income at the moment.

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a club with virtually no income at the moment.

 

And no credit lines either... nobody else commented on the significance of no cheques for season tickets. I presumed that's because any received will just go to paying off the overdraft, thankyouverymuch. Lots of us will have overdrawn friends at college helped out by parents sending a cheque... doh.

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As it gets nastier for Kanu, it's worth emphasising again that the reason the parachute system exists in the first place is to ensure that player contracts are honoured when relegation suddenly stuffs a club with unsustainable overheads.

 

To drum players out of the club because of their Premier League contracts in order to for the club to get its hand on the parachute payments must be pretty damn close to criminal - ie theft.

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so if TBH left on a free they would still need to find the money to pay him all his outstanding wages/image rights which, I would guess, is now quite substantial for a club with virtually no income at the moment.

 

No doubt that'll be deferred subject to a successful sale of the club.

 

Buying on the never-never, now selling on the never-never.

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I have been away for a week and a bit with no internet. Have I missed much? Anyone care to sum up the past few days - is there actually any proper news?

 

Cheers

 

They are very, very VERY close to selling 3 players.

 

 

 

Or not.

 

 

Oh and Kanu's in Nigeria and public enemy number one.

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