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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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Alanh

Alanh

Posted
Posted

Mick Williams is insistent on Twitter that if the club is liquidated the players will not receive the wages that they are owed. Obviously he's biased in that he wants them to reach a compromise agreement so that the trust bid can progress, but not sure that he's right otherwise why would the PFA have mentioned the £23M?

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Waterside.saint

Waterside.saint

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Posted
Mick Williams is insistent on Twitter that if the club is liquidated the players will not receive the wages that they are owed. Obviously he's biased in that he wants them to reach a compromise agreement so that the trust bid can progress, but not sure that he's right otherwise why would the PFA have mentioned the £23M?

 

Looks like a matter of who blinks first

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
Mick Williams is insistent on Twitter that if the club is liquidated the players will not receive the wages that they are owed. Obviously he's biased in that he wants them to reach a compromise agreement so that the trust bid can progress, but not sure that he's right otherwise why would the PFA have mentioned the £23M?

 

As said before the debt registered with the administrators is only relevant on liquidation as the players contracts are not affected by going in and out of administration. This does not really help us with the question of will the players get paid in full. Its possible that:

 

a) All the players will get is what they can get via the 23 million claim on liquidation (which is likely to be nothing)

 

or

 

b) The PFA will cover their wages lost and put in the claim of debt on the outside chance that they could get some of the money back.

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Gemmel

Gemmel

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what happens if pompey are liquidated...obviously a new club will form...where will they start...will they still use fratton..?

 

 

A new club willl form but not for this coming season..... All league and non league deadlines for registration have passed and by the date that they will have any answers, it just simply wouldn't be possible.

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

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Posted
What you say is definitely true for a club that is a going concern. They have had PP's diverted to their football creditors during their administrations already. What is not known is what happens in a liquidation because it is a rare event, especially when the club involved is owed PPs. Also, the total amount owed is more than the PPs due. Would the shortfall get made up, if so by whom? As I remember things, previously the diverted money only went to clubs that were owed money, rather than players who were owed. Would clubs be prioritised in this instance? Players who have had wage payments missed have been offered loans from the PFA in the past, with the PFA then being Football Creditors of the club, I don't know what the PFA have offered to players of other clubs that have been liquidated.

 

 

 

In my view, no. Unless there is constructive dismissal or pressure applied to the player that is deemed unlawful. If the players compromise then it is no different to any other agreement where a player is released early from his contract in exchange for a percentage of his outstanding wages due.

 

Not so sure... remember the points deductiona nd golden share granting is at teh descretion of the FL... not a legal issue. If teh FL decide that pompey shuld pay aprice for this, they can o so. Remember our admin... from a purely leagl perspective the club wa snot in admin, but golden share was only granted if we accepted teh points deduction.

 

..Was just thinking that this sort of issue clearly demonstrates a decent and serious new owner - ML and NC had plans for growth, and a year extra with a a -10 was not going to hinder it... ;-)

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Gemmel

Gemmel

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Posted
Looks like a matter of who blinks first

 

It's not quite as simple as that.

 

The most important question is whether the players are covered financially by the PFA. The PFA made a statement that it would cost them 26 million if pompey were liquidated - which would imply they are. Additionally if they were liquidated, I think it is fair to assume that the outstanding PP would go to the football creditors (Whilst they are two separte bodies, it would be in the PL interests to help the PFA and visa versa)

 

If that is true - They are fooked, If it isn't then they will need to do a deal with either The Trust or Chanrai, but as the outcome of who will get the club isn't known, they can only deal with Birch (Both are likely to have different thresholds of what hthey can or will pay). Only the players know if they chose to compromise their payoffs based on who the money goes too (1) A Chinese business man reclaiming his debt (2) The fans trust to help run the club.

 

But they will see the parachute money as their gurantee of getting paid. They won't mind waiting a couple of months (Most of them have ben waiting for over 2 years for some of it) So knowing it is coming in, they have to decide whethere they are going to give it to someone else or take it for themselves.

 

I suspect that the trusts bid has the players taking a huge reduction on all previously (Including admin1) deffered payments and a complete haircut on the outstanding value of the contracts. That would leave them some money to buy out Chinny (Again at a huge reduction) and then run the club. My guess is this is why the details of the bid havent been released.

 

Chinny just needs them gone at the lowest possible amount to leave him running the club on a shoestring (Ticket and Tv money) and leaving anything leftover from the PP's to go towards his debt. Once the PP's finish, the club goes back up for sale.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted

A rather lengthy but disgusting post on POL. Sums them up...

 

First off - I'm actually not sure I have said anything 'factually incorrect' about the trust - but apologies if you see it like that and I understand if that's how some of my thinking has come across then of course I understand why people would be up in arms - however I think Equinox probably summed up my stance most succinctly when he said "I think personally that joe has explained that the 'source' of his belief is "eternal optimism" ergo there are no hard facts to point to"

 

But - you've asked some direct questions - so I'll answer them - first off - I don't believe BC will put money into the club as an 'investment' - I'm well aware that he will tag it to the current debt.

 

Your second question about the Trust not speculating to accumulate - completely agree - and a BC ownership is yet another gamble for the club.

 

So basically I completely agree with your statement.

 

However this is where we differ - and it probably comes down to whether you're a gambling man or not - the money is in the Premier League - I want this football club to be in the Premier League - and for a club like us to get there without an infrastructure - then you've got to have luck, a good manager and a bit of money - I'm not advocating a return to the boom and bust spending we've seen at PFC - plenty of clubs have shown it can be done on a tight budget...but you've got to have some sort of budget.

 

Now this is where faith and eternal optimism comes into it - for I BELIEVE that if Portpin got us into the PL within 5 years (which is their aim) then it would be different - they would walk away with a big fat healthy return for their investment and the club would be sold onto a company who would use the £ to build the infrastructure so that the club would never be in the same sort of mess it's been in ever again.

 

There's a LOT of dreams, if and buts in that statement - and many will say it's a pipe dream - living in cloud cuckoo land - if BC got us that far he'd just milk the PL payments for what they're worth and bleed us dry...raking in 100s of millions...

 

I choose not to believe that. This time I think it will be different. If anything the football world, this club's fans would ensure it would be different.

 

Do I particularly want the above to happen? Not really. But I don't see another option - I see it as a high risk ends to a mean - ironically the same end as we all want - a stable, self-sustaining football club. We just differ on how we think we'll get there.

 

Now if the trust were to turn around and say they have 20 million in the bank, they have plans to build a stadium, do things the 'right way' - do a Swansea if you will...then I'd snap their hands off...but unfortunately I just don't see them ever having enough money to do anything but break even and keep us in League 1/Championship - we'd become a solid provincial football club - A Bournemouth with history.

 

For many that's enough -and if that happens then fair play to them for a historic achievement and I will continue going to FP, getting excited when we draw a "big team" in the cup. I would always be a Pompey fan.

 

But I'm greedy and I want more than that - I'm happy to gamble with the next 3 years - it'll be a rollercoaster ride - but supporting Pompey always is.

 

It probably comes down to this: Would you swap Milan/Utd/Cup win/Diarra in a Pompey shirt if you knew what was coming?

 

I wouldn't in a million years - plenty more prudent people than me would.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted

Just a reminder to vote for the statue if you haven't already. It's just 7 votes ahead.

 

https://www.facebook.com/npowerfootballleague/app_177019582409952

 

Here is some motivation for you:

 

Agreed, a stautue of the fans, by the fans, for the fans would be an affectation beyond embarrassment, even beyond complete and abject self-humiliation.

 

Sorry, but statues are for truly great people, footballer statues are for truly great footballers, we've had quite a few exceptional ones (unfortunately, not including two of those that you have mentioned) over the years but only one truly great footballer (for Pompey): Gentleman Jim is the only one that qualifies.

 

The only other person that has had an association with the club that would qualify for a statue would be Monty, but not for his football, or for his association with Portsmouth FC.

 

If you were doing 3 eras, these would be mine: Pre-WW2 Era, Post WW2 Era (up to mid-70's, say), Football Media Era.

 

I hope there is some way to prove to the poll-casters that the Romsey Rapists, in conjunction with the Millbrook Mongs and Bittern Batty-Boys are trying to affect the results of that vote and that it should be discarded.

 

If we end up with a ******* statue I'll be thoroughly humiliated.

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alehouseboys

alehouseboys

Posted
Posted
Just a reminder to vote for the statue if you haven't already. It's just 7 votes ahead.

 

https://www.facebook.com/npowerfootballleague/app_177019582409952

 

Here is some motivation for you:

 

It has to be one of their most iconic fans...she's a legend...

 

2v34leu.jpg

 

...or in honour of their 'Pack-the-Park' campaign...

 

(early days but it could look a little bit like this)

 

6dwmtk.jpg

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sidthesquid

sidthesquid

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If some of the players are really peeved at PFC and the settlement is derisory and spread out over years, it could be that they will sit tight and liquidate the company then move as free agents.

 

I think this is the point - the perception has been created by Birchy boy that Kanu has greedily asked for £300k, whislt the plucky administrator has only offered him half that, but the reality is, all he has been offered is a 20 Euro note and a signed photo of TCWTB.

The reason so little progress has been made is that there isn't even the money for a compromise, so the players may as well sit tight and see what develops as they have little to lose, rather than accept 20% of 20% spread over 5 years less expenses..

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
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Skate moron:-

It probably comes down to this: Would you swap Milan/Utd/Cup win/Diarra in a Pompey shirt if you knew what was coming?

 

I wouldn't in a million years - plenty more prudent people than me would.

 

This is precisely why they deserve everything they get, even if that includes liquidation and a new start at the very bottom strata of the football pyramid. Not one single ounce of remorse or regret and still that hankering to gamble everything to get back to the Premiership, without one single thought for the businesses, charities and the taxman who they raped along the way.

 

A well written post from the point of view of grammar pointing to a decent education, but the content pointing to a total lack of morality and intelligence. He is fairly typical of the Skates I encounter in business.

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OldNick

OldNick

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Posted
Skate moron:-

 

This is precisely why they deserve everything they get, even if that includes liquidation and a new start at the very bottom strata of the football pyramid. Not one single ounce of remorse or regret and still that hankering to gamble everything to get back to the Premiership, without one single thought for the businesses, charities and the taxman who they raped along the way.

 

A well written post from the point of view of grammar pointing to a decent education, but the content pointing to a total lack of morality and intelligence. He is fairly typical of the Skates I encounter in business.

Wes I dont think I could put my hand up and say that there wouldnt be saints fans who'd think the same if the roles were reversed. That paragraph sums up why I believe they have got away with it. Most clubs fans in all of football except for the top 6 of the PL might take that if they were offered it to have those life experiences. If they had not cheated their kids would never have experienced those days that robbed other clubs fans of the same because they played it correctly. Fair play would be demoted to the Southern League etc and then i would also agrwee that they then had paid the price, until then i will not change my mind.
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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
Maybe they should be using that £30k the bestest fans won to buy a new kit for the first team....

 

http://m.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/fans-facing-kit-sale-uncertainty-1-3995318

 

Which basically says :

 

"We're so much in the sh1t that we can't afford to pay for the kit for next season up front, and Kappa will only deal with us on a cash only basis as we still owe them so much money.

 

Added to this we can't find a shirt sponsor to give us any money as no sane company wants to be associated with such a tainted [worldwide, lol Ho!] brand.

 

Lastly, if in the unlikely event we manage to get a kit sorted, it's going to take us many months to get the money together to buy enough shirts to fill up a rail in the club shop [sic], in order to try and flog a few and make a profit."

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SaintRichmond

SaintRichmond

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Posted
Which basically says :

 

"We're so much in the sh1t that we can't afford to pay for the kit for next season up front, and Kappa will only deal with us on a cash only basis as we still owe them so much money.

 

Added to this we can't find a shirt sponsor to give us any money as no sane company wants to be associated with such a tainted [worldwide, lol Ho!] brand.

 

Lastly, if in the unlikely event we manage to get a kit sorted, it's going to take us many months to get the money together to buy enough shirts to fill up a rail in the club shop [sic], in order to try and flog a few and make a profit."

 

 

That's ridiculous ........ I mean, how much do Bin Liners cost FFS

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Spudders

Spudders

Posted
Posted
A lot of Southampton area locations on the 'people who also voted' list :)

 

Ha, didn't realise you could see who's voted! Just looked & you can see voters with profile pics of ricky lambert, people in saints shirts, saints logos, lol

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/birch-opens-football-league-talks-1-3995333

 

Trevor Birch has held opening talks with the Football League in a bid to clarify Pompey’s player recruitment powers.

League chiefs had previously indicated they want proof the wage bill is being reduced before giving the green light for players to be signed.

So far that has not been achieved, with the club struggling to reach compromise agreements with a number of the squad.

Hopefully the league will tell them to use their youth team.

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FloridaMarlin

FloridaMarlin

Posted
Posted
http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/birch-opens-football-league-talks-1-3995333

 

 

Hopefully the league will tell them to use their youth team.

 

And Pompey will counter that with: "If you want us to be competitive and not undermine the integrity of League One, you'll have to let us sign Premier League players on loan, at salaries we can't afford."

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
That's the $64,000 question that no-one seems to know the answer to (definitively that is)

 

It's A $64,000 question along with yesterdays "What do the players get from whom on liquidation" conundrum.

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