Pompey Takeover Saga

[hypochondriac]

Sounds likely. But all of which means that if Baker Tilly are 'happy' with CVA2 then that removes any likelihood of further points reductions as, techically, CVA1 will still be serviced (albeit in a modified/reduced form) out of CVA2.

 

Seems rather unfair as the original CVA agreement gave them loads more time than if they had not agreed one. It suggests that if in the future a club knows they cannot get a CVA passed, they should invent a CVA with a high percentage in the pound and then a year later come back and renegotiate telling the original creditors that is they don't accept they will be responsible for the clubs liquidation.

[Glasgow_Saint]

This is my problem with the whole thing. PFC fans won't get it, but put their club aside, the important part is the ramifications for the sport. Why on earth can't other clubs now do the same? Run up debts gambling for the top flight, if you make it, great. If you don't, write them off at a high rate, knowing you won't pay, gamble again, run up more debts then renegotiate. You may get relegated, you may not, but you sure as hell won't be paying any debt back.

 

It needs automatic relegation for admin to start with. Then huge points deductions for not getting a CVA, the SAME points deduction for failing to pay it and attempting renegotiation, then further penalties for bundling a smaller amount into CV2 or 3 or 4.

 

You seem a wee bit obsessed?

[FMPR]

I know I will get lambasted for this but I would do so for every million pounds worth of debt you are in (providing you are in administration and whatever figure this is at the initial creditors meeting).

 

A point deduction for every £1m worth of debt. So £60m in debt chasing a dream then 60 points deduction start of the next season and subsequent seasons till debt is paid off via a CVA. This should encourage teams to live within their means

[trousers]

You seem a wee bit obsessed?

 

Obsession with the Pompey Takeover Saga is a qualifying necessity for nutjob status FFS

[Verbal]

You seem a wee bit obsessed?

 

And you've been in Scotland too long you soft southern git.

[trousers]

FAO those who have written to the Football League in the past asking about the potential for further points deductions....

 

Did the FL say that they were waiting for CVA2 to be agreed (in principle) before commenting further on CVA1? Or are they waiting for another 'event' beyond today's proceedings?

 

Given that the custodians of CVA1 have today officially given the green light to dilute and absorb CVA1 into CVA2 (regardless of what happens from here on in), can we now expect a statement from the Football League?

 

Edited 25 June, 2012 by trousers

[Matthew Le God]

I know I will get lambasted for this but I would do so for every million pounds worth of debt you are in (providing you are in administration and whatever figure this is at the initial creditors meeting).

 

A point deduction for every £1m worth of debt. So £60m in debt chasing a dream then 60 points deduction start of the next season and subsequent seasons till debt is paid off via a CVA. This should encourage teams to live within their means

 

What if a team in League Two racks up £750,000 worth of debt and goes into admin, no points deduction? Or is you plan to hit them with further points ontop of the initial -10 deduction for entering admin?

 

So Pompey would have been given -130 points in 2010, -60 points in 2012? At what point is the deduction applied?

 

What about Saints in 2009? Legally they were never in admin and didn't require a CVA.

[Verbal]

FAO those who have written to the Football League in the past asking about the potential for further points deductions....

 

Did the FL say that they were waiting for CVA2 to be agreed before commenting further on CVA1? Or were they waiting for an event beyond today's proceedings?

 

Given that the custodians of CVA1 have today officially given the green light to dilute and absorb CVA1 into CVA2, can we now expect a statement from the Football League?

 

I don't recall that the FL went into any of that detail - and with good reason, given the legal ramifications.

[trousers]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18578555

 

"Portsmouth Supporters Trust boosted at creditors meeting"

 

"Birch warned that exiting administration would not guarantee the club would be granted their football share in the Football League as a newco. "

Edited 25 June, 2012 by trousers

[Matthew Le God]

FAO those who have written to the Football League in the past asking about the potential for further points deductions....

 

Did the FL say that they were waiting for CVA2 to be agreed (in principle) before commenting further on CVA1? Or are they waiting for an event beyond today's proceedings?

 

Given that the custodians of CVA1 have today officially given the green light to dilute and absorb CVA1 into CVA2, can we now expect a statement from the Football League?

 

The Football League said...

 

"Any decisions relating to Portsmouth’s previous CVA agreement and current administration will be considered by the Football League Board and any statement will be made in due course.

 

We are not able to comment on anything further at this time."

 

I'd guess if you asked them today, they will say wait until any CVA is formally completed in 28+ days time. There is still the potential of someone paying 100% of the debt in the next 28 days. Of course this won't happen, however the Football League can't hit them with a points deduction whilst that possibility remains open.

[Saints foreva]

The Football League won't do nothing about the failure of CVA1. Pompey have exploited a loophole here and will get away with it again.

[trousers]

I don't recall that the FL went into any of that detail

 

Yep, but that was the thinking behind my question - when, way back, people asked the FL what they would do if CVA1 was deemed to have failed I'm sure the FL came back with some generic "we'll wait to see what happens with CVA2 before commenting further" statement, or words to that effect. I was just wondering if today's agreement (in principle) of CVA2 is the trigger for the aforementioned "further comment" that the FL alluded to in previous correspondance with people. I doubt it but you never know,.

[St Chalet]

Today wasn't a surprise. The thing they have failed to do over the past weeks, months and years (shift the hig wage earners) is still hanging around their neck like a pair of Thai hookers on Avram's nuts.

 

Unlile Kanu, this thread has legs.

[trousers]

The Football League said...

 

"Any decisions relating to Portsmouth’s previous CVA agreement and current administration will be considered by the Football League Board and any statement will be made in due course.

 

We are not able to comment on anything further at this time."

 

I'd guess if you asked them today, they will say wait until any CVA is formally completed in 28+ days time. There is still the potential of someone paying 100% of the debt in the next 28 days. Of course this won't happen, however the Football League can't hit them with a points deduction whilst that possibility remains open.

 

True

[angelman]

Surely Baker Tilly can't accept it on behalf of the creditors from CVA1. 2% of 20% is 0.4% or is that wrong?

[70's Mike]

The Football League won't do nothing about the failure of CVA1. Pompey have exploited a loophole here and will get away with it again.

 

True

[hypochondriac]

The Football League won't do nothing about the failure of CVA1. Pompey have exploited a loophole here and will get away with it again.

 

So they will do something?

[The Kraken]

I think there's still a potential for a points deduction for the failed CVA1. Neil Allen tweeted from the meeting:

 

pn_neil_allen: Birch; Football League want amendment if CVA goes thru it is still ‘at their discretion’ whether to grant golden share.

 

This was passed. So the FL still have it in their power to refuse the Golden Share. Or, similarly to what happened with us, to apply a points penalty on the club and refuse to grant the golden share unless any claim or appeal is forfeited. Which gets around the fact that its a loophole in their own rulebook.

[Matthew Le God]

The Football League won't do nothing about the failure of CVA1. Pompey have exploited a loophole here and will get away with it again.

 

So they will do something?

 

hypochondriac pointing out double negatives! I'm no longer needed.

[Minsk]

Surely Baker Tilly can't accept it on behalf of the creditors from CVA1. 2% of 20% is 0.4% or is that wrong?

 

Baker Tilly are legally bound to recoup as much of the debt for CVA1 as possible. Therefore, if they are given the choice of 2% or nothing then they HAVE to vote for 2%.

 

Now, what is wrong IMO is that the actual creditors voted for the original 20% but had no say what-so-ever about this 2% of their 20% - AND THAT IS THE REASON WHY I THINK THEY SHOULD SUFFER A POINTS DEDUCTION FOR THE FAILURE OF CVA1. Yes, it could be argued that CVA1 is still going to be serviced, but how is it VOLUNTARILY so?

[Minsk]

I think there's still a potential for a points deduction for the failed CVA1. Neil Allen tweeted from the meeting:

 

pn_neil_allen: Birch; Football League want amendment if CVA goes thru it is still ‘at their discretion’ whether to grant golden share.

 

This was passed. So the FL still have it in their power to refuse the Golden Share. Or, similarly to what happened with us, to apply a points penalty on the club and refuse to grant the golden share unless any claim or appeal is forfeited. Which gets around the fact that its a loophole in their own rulebook.

 

I am also hoping this was the reason for their wanting an amendment.

[hypochondriac]

hypochondriac pointing out double negatives! I'm no longer needed.

 

Just a small bugbear of mine. I'm not turning into you...

[Lord Duckhunter]

The FL can impose any terms they like in return for the Golden share, I believe ours was no appeal, Boscombe & Leeds' was extra point's deduction. They'll see how it plays out before making any decision. The Leeds thing was because Bates took the pi ss. Surely if it's Chanari, they'll do the same. I feel that if a miracle happens and the bell ringers community club thing takes over, they'll bend over backwards to help them.

[pedg]

Well done to all my fellow nutjobs. The PTS thread has now had over 4 million views.

[Glasgow_Saint]

hypochondriac pointing out double negatives! I'm no longer needed.

 

if youre no longer needed than neither am I

 

X

[hypochondriac]

The FL can impose any terms they like in return for the Golden share, I believe ours was no appeal, Boscombe & Leeds' was extra point's deduction. They'll see how it plays out before making any decision. The Leeds thing was because Bates took the pi ss. Surely if it's Chanari, they'll do the same. I feel that if a miracle happens and the bell ringers community club thing takes over, they'll bend over backwards to help them.

 

And so they should TBF. Won't make a huge amount of difference though as their trust won't be able to afford much at all.

[latter day saint]

so basically they have turned roughly £130M + £60M into £500,000 less expenses?

why the f*ck have people agreed to this ? are they a bit dim or something ?

if it was me i would be p*ssed right off & do my best to f*ck them over.

god i hope the nasty selfish high wage owners are stubborn bastards & don't give in to the blackmailing c^nts !

F.O.A.D !

[trousers]

Well done to all my fellow nutjobs. The PTS thread has now had over 4 million views.

 

Party!

[trousers]

so basically they have turned roughly £130M + £60M into £500,000 less expenses?

 

In a nutshell, yes

[bridge too far]

Wouldn't it be good if football in England was managed with as much probity as in Scotland

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18582965

 

Add to this the refusal of two Rangers' players to play for NewCo and the possibility that Rangers might not be allowed to play in the SPL and I start to wonder why the English game is so impotent

[aintforever]

The sticking point will still be the players wages.

 

I can see the PFA digging their heels in over this, it sets a dangerous precedent if their members are blackmailed into losing money they are legally entitled to, especially when there are plenty of parachute payments due further down the line.

 

I wonder if one outcome could be for the PFA, FL and PL to arrange for the players to be paid direct with the parachute money and become free agents, with pompey forced to accept not having the parachutes as a condition of getting their golden share?

[dubai_phil]

Surely Baker Tilly can't accept it on behalf of the creditors from CVA1. 2% of 20% is 0.4% or is that wrong?

 

Don't panic.

 

Thanks to the amendment removing Chinnys exclusivity and allowing bids in the next 28 days, people simply were able to vote for WHAT WAS ON THE TABLE With the amendments it was a no brainer. Also shows Chinny REALLY doesn't want the club as he allowed the clause to be removed HOPING someone else will step in.

 

So now it is PST or bust for the creditors

[dubai_phil]

Well done to all my fellow nutjobs. The PTS thread has now had over 4 million views.

 

I think that deserves a retweet by SaintsfanZone

[trousers]

The sticking point will still be the players wages.

 

I can see the PFA digging their heels in over this, it sets a dangerous precedent if their members are blackmailed into losing money they are legally entitled to, especially when there are plenty of parachute payments due further down the line.

 

I wonder if one outcome could be for the PFA, FL and PL to arrange for the players to be paid direct with the parachute money and become free agents, with pompey forced to accept not having the parachutes as a condition of getting their golden share?

 

The fact that the PFA apparently didn't contest the CVA*, which is conditional on the very players they represent being shafted (for want of a less crude phrase), I would venture that you're right in suspecting that they've got an ace up their sleeve. Why else would they apparently wave the CVA through without a murmur?

 

(*as custodians of the players (i.e. 'football creditor' debt) did the PFA actually get a vote on the CVA today or were they at the meeting in an observational capacity only?)

[saintjay77]

We still dont know what HMRC did in this vote? I am guessing they voted against it no matter what but there has been no mention about them at all. I would of expected the press to at least try and get a quote from them based on all the other Admins that they have voted against. But so far nothing??? Not even sure if they were there?

[trousers]

We still dont know what HMRC did in this vote? I am guessing they voted against it no matter what but there has been no mention about them at all. I would of expected the press to at least try and get a quote from them based on all the other Admins that they have voted against. But so far nothing??? Not even sure if they were there?

 

I asked the same question earlier as they weren't mentioned in any of the Tweets. In fact, I'm pretty sure the Tweeters from the media posted that the CVA proposal had been accepted unanimously...

 

Edit: just looked back.....it was the AMENDMENTS that were "unanimously" accepted. No mention of the CVA 'for and against' vote itself...

Edited 25 June, 2012 by trousers

[SNOWY]

Today was the easy part. Convincing the players to write off the millions they are owed is the hard part. Birch has had months & months to do this with little success what is going to change in the next month or so?

[saintjay77]

I asked the same question earlier as they weren't mentioned in any of the Tweets. In fact, I'm pretty sure the Tweeters from the media posted that the CVA proposal had been accepted unanimously...

 

Edit: just looked back.....it was the AMENDMENTS that were "unanimously" accepted. No mention of the CVA 'for and against' vote itself...

 

Ah your right, But that doesnt make sense in what HMRC have previously done. They only voted for 20p last time because Old co was getting Liquidated and an investigation could take place. Why voite in favour of 2p now?As usual, something doesnt smell right with them lot down the road.

 

EDIT: Your right again, the only thing we have heard regarding the vote was #pompey CVA PROPOSAL CARRIED. No mention of how many voted for or against. In fact, didnt the last time they went through this take a little longer while they worked out the percentages of all the votes? Wonder if this was just a show of hands that got the vote through?

Edited 25 June, 2012 by saintjay77

[St Marco]

I think the key point people are missing is that portpin have said the offer is conditional. Meaning if in 28 days the high earners have not gone then he won't go through with the takeover.

 

So now Birch has to get rid of the high earners. They said they need to get it down from£9.5m to £5m. That's going to need more then 2 players leaving!

As we have seen he is using the press to make them look bad. These guys know whatever happens they will be leaving anyway. If your getting bad mouthed in the press then your not going to be happy about it. I can see these guys now digging their heels in and making sure they get everything before they leave. Because if in 28 days they have not gone they will go under. They then get what they are owed from the PP as it is secured. Then walk into a new team on a free with a nice signing on fee.

 

I think that is the thing that will kill this Cva. The more desperate Birch gets the more he will make the players into the bad guy. Which will give them more reason to not make a deal.

[latter day saint]

do any of the nasty selfish high wage earners live in/near Portsmouth or do they have the good sense to live elsewhere ?

just wondering how easy it would be for pressure to be applied by some our neanderthal neighbours by hasling them at home etc ?

[andysstuff]

Anyone any ideas why the pre-CVA meeting story on portsmouth News was pulled before the meeting, and no follow up story posete after the meeting finished.

 

Would have thought an article about the 'CVA being passed' would have been lapped up.

 

Seems odd.

[saint si]

http://www.portsmouthfc.co.uk/LatestNews/news/Portsmouth-Football-Club-Statement-3491.aspx

[FloridaMarlin]

Is it just me who thinks that somehow they might start the season with TBH, Kitson, Mokoena and the other high earners in their ranks. They would form the bassis of a very good team in League One?

[SNOWY]

"This is, however, still dependent on restructuring the player cost base, which is a condition of both the existing offers"

From statement on portsmouth site..Cart before the horse comes to mind.

[hutch]

Anyone any ideas why the pre-CVA meeting story on portsmouth News was pulled before the meeting, and no follow up story posete after the meeting finished.

 

Would have thought an article about the 'CVA being passed' would have been lapped up.

 

Seems odd.

They've got far more important things to think about

[FMPR]

I think that is the thing that will kill this Cva. The more desperate Birch gets the more he will make the players into the bad guy. Which will give them more reason to not make a deal.

 

And do you think the PFA want the headlines of Milionaire footballers kill off 114 year old football club by their greed?

 

I know they are owed money and fully accept they should be owed that money.

[buctootim]

They've got far more important things to think about

 

I wonder which players they'll buy with the deposit money.

[Weston Super Saint]

And do you think the PFA want the headlines of Milionaire footballers kill off 114 year old football club by their greed?

 

I know they are owed money and fully accept they should be owed that money.

 

What's it got to do with the PFA who killed off pompey?

 

And besides, it's just you retarded, lap up the spin, fall hook line and sinker for all the bill bullsh1t skates that still believe it is the players killing the club!

 

It isn't. It's the numpties like Storrie - remember when you were singing his name PMSFL - and Lampitt that have killed off pompey by offering the lunatic wages and contracts in the first place!

 

The players are just this month's convenient scapegoat.

[trousers]

http://www.portsmouthfc.co.uk/LatestNews/news/Portsmouth-Football-Club-Statement-3491.aspx

 

"The shareholders have also approved the CVA."

 

Who are the 'shareholders' in this context?

[trousers]

They've got far more important things to think about

 

STILL trying to trade whilst insolvent.....FFS

 

And where are they gonna find some people thick enough in Portsmouth to pay a deposit for a Christmas party that's still 6 months away....oh....

 

Still, this bit made me chuckle....

 

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