Pompey Takeover Saga

[derry]

just been trying to explain to a skate for the zillionth time how our administration was not exactly the same as theirs....he reckons both clubs should have folded and we left just as many creditors.

Apparently they will pass us shortly anyway - when we overspend and get relegated while they triumphantly rebuild.

 

There's nowt as dim as the stupid, what can you do?

 

Southampton FC was NEVER in administration. Continued to trade and paid all it's bills. The owners of SFC, Southampton Leisure Holdings went into administration and it's assets were purchased by Markus Liebherr. All debts were settled with the creditors and the mortgage on the stadium paid off. No CVA was needed. The 10 point deduction was because the owners main business was as the owners of the football club although the football club itself was never in administration.

 

It's the same as if CSI owned PFC2010 only and as soon as CSI went into administration PFC2010 would be deducted 10 points, but if they were solvent they could continue to trade without going into administration again.

Edited 24 June, 2012 by derry

[Minsk]

just been trying to explain to a skate for the zillionth time how our administration was not exactly the same as theirs....he reckons both clubs should have folded and we left just as many creditors.

Apparently they will pass us shortly anyway - when we overspend and get relegated while they triumphantly rebuild.

 

There's nowt as dim as the stupid, what can you do?

 

Southampton FC was NEVER in administration. Continued to trade and paid all it's bills. The owners of SFC, Southampton Leisure Holdings went into administration and it's assets were purchased by Markus Liebherr. All debts were settled with the creditors and the mortgage on the stadium paid off. No CVA was needed. The 10 point deduction was because the owners main business was as the owners of the football club although the football club itself was never in administration.

 

It's the same as if CSI owned PFC2010 only and as soon as CSI went into administration PFC2010 would be deducted 10 points, but if they were solvent they could continue to trade without going into administration again.

 

I know this, you know this, Rallyboy knows this, just about every single person who has read even a fraction of this thread knows this, but the vast, vast, majority of Skate supporters will deny it and say that the adminstarations were the same until the cods come home!!!

[dubai_phil]

Time for a Sunday ROFL.

 

So they need players for next season. Obviously as we all know, the place to find them is You Tube

 

So on behalf of PTS I submit our prime candidates to fill their squad next season.

 

After all the original article in the Telegraph states the A-League is where L1 players go to retire

 

Enjoy

 

 

Some quality keepers in there for them.....

[derry]

 

I know this, you know this, Rallyboy knows this, just about every single person who has read even a fraction of this thread knows this, but the vast, vast, majority of Skate supporters will deny it and say that the adminstarations were the same until the cods come home!!!

 

Don't bother arguing, after all it's their problem

[Danbert]

I think it's fair to say that would settle the argument!

 

True, true.

[SaintRichmond]

 

I know this, you know this, Rallyboy knows this, just about every single person who has read even a fraction of this thread knows this, but the vast, vast, majority of Skate supporters will deny it and say that the adminstarations were the same until the cods come home!!!

 

Surely you mean "Skates" ??

[suewhistle]

I know in kid's comics there used to be stories of the "with one bound he was free" type, or 'will so-and-so ecape - don't miss next week's instalment'.. but I really can't see how they can get out of it now.

 

Given the history it's an unsafe assumption I know, but if you had to write a brief obituary of the club - let's say x2 Twitter length - how would you sum them up. Spike Milligan's I believe was: "I told you I was ill". Are you prepared, any good ideas?

[Ohio Saint]

if you had to write a brief obituary of the club -

 

We Came, we saw, we stole it.

[suewhistle]

We Came, we saw, we stole it.

 

Good start!

[PaulSaint]

Anyone want an FA Cup? Yep we'll have it (FA man looks to man holding a land mine) - how much? 10 years of misery for you & hilarity for your rivals. Yep go on then.

[dubai_phil]

I know in kid's comics there used to be stories of the "with one bound he was free" type, or 'will so-and-so ecape - don't miss next week's instalment'.. but I really can't see how they can get out of it now.

 

Given the history it's an unsafe assumption I know, but if you had to write a brief obituary of the club - let's say x2 Twitter length - how would you sum them up. Spike Milligan's I believe was: "I told you I was ill". Are you prepared, any good ideas?

 

So long & thanks for all the fish

[hutch]

It's their dogged perseverance in raising money from charities that makes them stand out from the crowd.

[Verbal]

We Came, we saw, we stole it.

 

Twice.

[Gemmel]

So tomorrow will see another milestone in this thread and go along way to see if they have a future.

 

I have a sneeky feeling that the details of the pst bid, will cause much laughter, before Birch puts his support behind portpin.

 

Not really sure what the best outcome for us nutjobs would be, but both scenarios have there plus points;

 

1) If Portpin win, they will simply run the club a a shoestring and into the ground, until Chinny finally chucks the rotten carcass away.

2) If the pst win, they will be completely hamstrung and one unknown invoice away from the next administration.

 

Roll up roll up you nutjobs...... Tomorrow is going to be a funny one :)

[dubai_phil]

So tomorrow will see another milestone in this thread and go along way to see if they have a future.

 

I have a sneeky feeling that the details of the pst bid, will cause much laughter, before Birch puts his support behind portpin.

 

Not really sure what the best outcome for us nutjobs would be, but both scenarios have there plus points;

 

1) If Portpin win, they will simply run the club a a shoestring and into the ground, until Chinny finally chucks the rotten carcass away.

2) If the pst win, they will be completely hamstrung and one unknown invoice away from the next administration.

 

Roll up roll up you nutjobs...... Tomorrow is going to be a funny one :)

 

One helluva big assumption there tho Gemmel. The players on contracts

 

Next trick wait as long as they can form newco THEN refuse to transfer the player contracts. BUT of course they do that ONLY 2 days before the new season starts..... Leaves the FL screwed kick them out (no Golden Share) their members lose a match in L1 which could be financial nightmare for them

 

Long way to go

[SaintBobby]

Dear "nutjobs" (which I mean in the nicest and most flattering way), I'm helping to pull together an article for the Daily Mail website tomorrow on Porstmouth FC, finance and lessons to be learnt.

 

It's not a sports article as such - but drawing parallels between Portsmouth and governments spending too much money, racking up debt - who suffers, who gets away with it, how "moral hazard" is encouraged if proper punishments are not dispensed etc.

 

I'm a fairly frequent visitor to this thread, but would enormously welcome any contributions and advice on the following points:

 

1. Assuming CVA2 is approved, what's the total hit to the taxpayer/HMRC over the last few years?

 

2. And on the same basis, what's the hit to non-football creditors?

 

3. What are the most egregious examples of player signings for transfer frees or on salaries that Portsmouth didn't have? This isn't necessarily TBH (if he was signed and offered a good contract when the going was good, that's prob not as bad as a player on half the amount signed when the finances were obviously disastrous).

 

4. How "obvious" is it that the 2008 Cup winning team was bought and paid for with money they didn't have at the time?

 

All/any help much appreciated.

[Sevvy]

Dear "nutjobs" (which I mean in the nicest and most flattering way), I'm helping to pull together an article for the Daily Mail website tomorrow on Porstmouth FC, finance and lessons to be learnt.

 

It's not a sports article as such - but drawing parallels between Portsmouth and governments spending too much money, racking up debt - who suffers, who gets away with it, how "moral hazard" is encouraged if proper punishments are not dispensed etc.

 

I'm a fairly frequent visitor to this thread, but would enormously welcome any contributions and advice on the following points:

 

1. Assuming CVA2 is approved, what's the total hit to the taxpayer/HMRC over the last few years?

 

2. And on the same basis, what's the hit to non-football creditors?

 

3. What are the most egregious examples of player signings for transfer frees or on salaries that Portsmouth didn't have? This isn't necessarily TBH (if he was signed and offered a good contract when the going was good, that's prob not as bad as a player on half the amount signed when the finances were obviously disastrous).

 

4. How "obvious" is it that the 2008 Cup winning team was bought and paid for with money they didn't have at the time?

 

All/any help much appreciated.

 

I would say Agents, Trousers, Rallyboy and Gemmel are the boys for this,

 

Your mission men is to help Sainbobby with this,

 

This tape will slf distruct in 5 seconds, 5-4-3-2-1

[Lurkster]

Neil Allen ‏@pn_neil_allen

 

Birch labelled tomorrow’s #Pompey CVA meeting as ‘The first stage in the beginning of the end’. I’ll be there tweeting proceedings from 11am

[FarehamRed]

One helluva big assumption there tho Gemmel. The players on contracts

 

Next trick wait as long as they can form newco THEN refuse to transfer the player contracts. BUT of course they do that ONLY 2 days before the new season starts..... Leaves the FL screwed kick them out (no Golden Share) their members lose a match in L1 which could be financial nightmare for them

 

Long way to go

 

I imagine the PFA would have something to say about that. PFA members currently contracted to PFC will want their pound of flesh. And the union will support them.

 

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk 2

[andysstuff]

I imagine the PFA would have something to say about that. PFA members currently contracted to PFC will want their pound of flesh. And the union will support them.

 

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk 2

 

It's actually a plausable scenario - especially as they've apparently applied to join the Blue Square - ditch the players, lose the golden share, start at the bottom of the pile.

 

Can't honestly see any other way of shedding the big earners.

[Matthew Le God]

It's actually a plausable scenario - especially as they've apparently applied to join the Blue Square - ditch the players, lose the golden share, start at the bottom of the pile.

 

The Blue Square Premier and Blue Square South are a long way from being the "bottom of the pile". If they have to start again it should be well below the 5th or 6th tier.

[andysstuff]

The Blue Square Premier and Blue Square South are a long way from being the "bottom of the pile". If they have to start again it should be well below the 5th or 6th tier.

 

True enough, but to be honest I'd be happy with that outcome and I'm sure at that level it could be sold to a lot of their bestest supporters too.

[Dark Munster]

One helluva big assumption there tho Gemmel. The players on contracts

 

Next trick wait as long as they can form newco THEN refuse to transfer the player contracts. BUT of course they do that ONLY 2 days before the new season starts..... Leaves the FL screwed kick them out (no Golden Share) their members lose a match in L1 which could be financial nightmare for them

 

Long way to go

 

That sounds like a very cunning plan. But I can't see the FL being stupid enough to allow that to happen.

 

Oh wait a minute, yes I can.

[brightspark]

Q1. Will the creditors accept Portpin's CVA proposal?

 

A) No, they will scoff at the offer and stand up in unison and demand answers as to why they have been cheated out of so much money

B) Yes, after all it is a generous offer from Mr Chainrai

C) The Trust confuses the matter and buggers up Chainrai's plans, deferring the situation for a number of weeks

 

Q2. What sort of day will Neil Allen have?

 

A) An absolutely terrible day, where he gets abused on Twitter for bemoaning the unfairness of the creditors expecting more than 2%

B) A pretty decent day at the office, smugly portraying how this is the first step in Pompey's climb back to the Premier League

C) Neil Allen will ignore all events at Fratton Park and instead focus on how Southampton's Alex O-C wasn't worth the risk vs Italy

 

Q3. What will Trevor Birch say after the Creditors Meeting?

 

A) Express his disappointment at the creditors for not accepting Portpin's offer and attempts to make them feel guilty over the situation

B) Jubilantly declares Pompey are on the road to recovery and promises that Appy will get a 'considerable' transfer budget

C) "Today, I am liquidating Portsmouth Football Club"

D) Diverts attention away from the meeting and instead launches an immoral attack on the Football League

 

Q4. Will HMRC accept Chinny's CVA Proposal?

 

A) No.

B) No.

C) Yes, because Pompey have the bestest fans in the world and if any team deserves to be let off around 40 million of tax, it's Portsmouth

 

Q5. What will Tal Ben Haim wake up to in the morning?

 

A) Breakfast in Bed courtesy of Mr Chainrai

B) His wages, fully paid and up to date

C) An angry mob of skates demanding he forfeits the money he isn't rightfully owed by poor plucky pompey

 

Q6. What will the Football League do today?

 

A) Call a press conference and declare that they are deducting Pompey 30 points for numerous penalties in regards to their adminstration

B) Roll the red carpet out for Appy and tell him he can sign any player he wants on the wages he wants, and promise no points penalties

C) Continue to answer emails... "until the circumstances of their exit from administration becomes clear"... despite it becoming clear

D) Congratulate the bestest fans in the world publically for their 'sensational' 'unrivalled' support during such trying times

[Waterside.saint]

Q1. Will the creditors accept Portpin's CVA proposal?

 

A) No, they will scoff at the offer and stand up in unison and demand answers as to why they have been cheated out of so much money

B) Yes, after all it is a generous offer from Mr Chainrai

C) The Trust confuses the matter and buggers up Chainrai's plans, deferring the situation for a number of weeks

 

Q2. What sort of day will Neil Allen have?

 

A) An absolutely terrible day, where he gets abused on Twitter for bemoaning the unfairness of the creditors expecting more than 2%

B) A pretty decent day at the office, smugly portraying how this is the first step in Pompey's climb back to the Premier League

C) Neil Allen will ignore all events at Fratton Park and instead focus on how Southampton's Alex O-C wasn't worth the risk vs Italy

 

Q3. What will Trevor Birch say after the Creditors Meeting?

 

A) Express his disappointment at the creditors for not accepting Portpin's offer and attempts to make them feel guilty over the situation

B) Jubilantly declares Pompey are on the road to recovery and promises that Appy will get a 'considerable' transfer budget

C) "Today, I am liquidating Portsmouth Football Club"

D) Diverts attention away from the meeting and instead launches an immoral attack on the Football League

 

Q4. Will HMRC accept Chinny's CVA Proposal?

 

A) No.

B) No.

C) Yes, because Pompey have the bestest fans in the world and if any team deserves to be let off around 40 million of tax, it's Portsmouth

 

Q5. What will Tal Ben Haim wake up to in the morning?

 

A) Breakfast in Bed courtesy of Mr Chainrai

B) His wages, fully paid and up to date

C) An angry mob of skates demanding he forfeits the money he isn't rightfully owed by poor plucky pompey

 

Q6. What will the Football League do today?

 

A) Call a press conference and declare that they are deducting Pompey 30 points for numerous penalties in regards to their adminstration

B) Roll the red carpet out for Appy and tell him he can sign any player he wants on the wages he wants, and promise no points penalties

C) Continue to answer emails... "until the circumstances of their exit from administration becomes clear"... despite it becoming clear

D) Congratulate the bestest fans in the world publically for their 'sensational' 'unrivalled' support during such trying times

 

Six pertinent questions, all with very interesting alternative outcomes. Nice

[trousers]

@TonyHusbandBBC: #pompey Fans' Trust has appealed to Administrator to allow them to present details of their bid at today's creditors meeting.

[hutch]

Dear "nutjobs" (which I mean in the nicest and most flattering way), I'm helping to pull together an article for the Daily Mail website tomorrow on Porstmouth FC, finance and lessons to be learnt.

 

It's not a sports article as such - but drawing parallels between Portsmouth and governments spending too much money, racking up debt - who suffers, who gets away with it, how "moral hazard" is encouraged if proper punishments are not dispensed etc.

 

I'm a fairly frequent visitor to this thread, but would enormously welcome any contributions and advice on the following points:

 

1. Assuming CVA2 is approved, what's the total hit to the taxpayer/HMRC over the last few years?

 

2. And on the same basis, what's the hit to non-football creditors?

 

3. What are the most egregious examples of player signings for transfer frees or on salaries that Portsmouth didn't have? This isn't necessarily TBH (if he was signed and offered a good contract when the going was good, that's prob not as bad as a player on half the amount signed when the finances were obviously disastrous).

 

4. How "obvious" is it that the 2008 Cup winning team was bought and paid for with money they didn't have at the time?

 

All/any help much appreciated.

I can help with the first question.

 

From published documents by Andrew Andronikou and Trevor Birch, the HMRC situation is:

 

CVA1

 

HMRC claimed £37,768,387.13

Andronikou "accepted" £23,895,044.67

 

Baker Tilley will ultimately decide on the correct amount, and they will be due, at 2% of 20%, between £151,073.55 and £95,580.18

 

CVA2

 

Birch "accepted" £2,929,243.66 so they will be due £58,584.87

 

So the total loss to the taxpayer is somewhere between £26,670,123.28 and £40,487,972.37, depending on Baker Tilley's decision on the correct amount owed to HMRC in CVA1.

[trousers]

Just saw this tweet from last night....

 

@pompeytrust: PST spokesman will be live on BBC tv at 8.05am tomorrow morning ahead of the Creditors meeting. #backthebid

 

Did anyone see the interview?

[saint si]

HAPPY CVA VOTE DAY EVERYONE!

 

What did the CVA-fairy leave everyone this morning? I got 2p!

[trousers]

I wonder if Wayne Rooney is a creditor? Looks like he got a 2p as well...

 

Boom. Boom. Tish.

[trousers]

@pn_neil_allen: Indication is #Pompey creditors will today be asked to vote on amendment to allow other bids - inc Trust - during 28-day cooling down period

[eurosaint]

http://www.twohundredpercent.net/?p=19432

 

Not much new but interesting summary nonetheless !

[pedg]

So any idea of the timings for today?

[andysstuff]

So any idea of the timings for today?

 

Fun starts at 11.00am

[Sevvy]

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/583716870?-11209

 

Now there's a surprise, why not wait until later when you can get them a lot cheaper, if they survive today, i can see it going to the last day of the cooling off period before somebody say's, thats it, nobody being sold, wage bill etc to high, now pull the plug,

[trousers]

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/583716870?-11209

 

Now there's a surprise, why not wait until later when you can get them a lot cheaper, if they survive today, i can see it going to the last day of the cooling off period before somebody say's, thats it, nobody being sold, wage bill etc to high, now pull the plug,

 

What is it with that newspaper and it's inability to spell "administrator"...?

 

"As it stands, though, the Blues’ administer claims he is still waiting for offers."

Edited 25 June, 2012 by trousers

[carljack]

@TonyHusbandBBC: #pompey Fans' Trust has appealed to Administrator to allow them to present details of their bid at today's creditors meeting.

 

Seems like one appeal after another! but this fiasco will eventually take the course of natural justice.Have heard a credible tale that Bills are allegedly still going unpaid,if true then things have taken a turn for the worst for the Administrator.

[andysstuff]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/pompey-s-cva-meeting-due-to-take-place-this-morning-1-3986656

 

10:14 AM on 25/06/2012

 

Just imagine a few Saints fans getting together one evening in a pub and hatching a little plan. Pretty soon they had 500 mates and acquaintances on board. All 500 have pledged to the PST. What's going to happen to the bid when they withdraw their pledges? Sha la la la la la.......Still laughing?

 

ps bring back Tiger/Plan B. He's the best thing on the internet. Hilarious!

 

 

 

OK - who's winding them up today of all days??

[Waterside.saint]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/pompey-s-cva-meeting-due-to-take-place-this-morning-1-3986656

 

10:14 AM on 25/06/2012

 

Just imagine a few Saints fans getting together one evening in a pub and hatching a little plan. Pretty soon they had 500 mates and acquaintances on board. All 500 have pledged to the PST. What's going to happen to the bid when they withdraw their pledges? Sha la la la la la.......Still laughing?

 

ps bring back Tiger/Plan B. He's the best thing on the internet. Hilarious!

 

 

 

OK - who's winding them up today of all days??

 

That will be Birch then

I'll get me coat

 

For more lolage:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/portsmouth/9350229/Portsmouth-Portpin-and-crippling-debts-deja-vu-for-the-creditors-as-the-Pompey-circus-continues.html

[trousers]

@pn_Rory_McKeown: Nick Cusack from the PFA has arrived #PompeyCVA #Pompey

 

@pn_Rory_McKeown: Finance expert Carl Faulds, representing Bishops Printers, is here. #PompeyCVA #Pompey

[angelman]

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/583716870?-11209

 

Now there's a surprise, why not wait until later when you can get them a lot cheaper, if they survive today, i can see it going to the last day of the cooling off period before somebody say's, thats it, nobody being sold, wage bill etc to high, now pull the plug,

 

Why buy them in June, when there isn't a huge demand for anyone what with the Euros on. All you would do is, as mentioned above, pay too much for them as well as picking up their wages for 8 weeks. Two players on say a combined 15k for 8 weeks = £120k + NI and all the other bits. Unless you really, really want a player, why sign him so early in the off season?

[trousers]

@pn_Rory_McKeown: Ten minutes to go and no sign of Portpin representatives yet #PompeyCVA #Pompey

[Sevvy]

@pn_Rory_McKeown: Ten minutes to go and no sign of Portpin representatives yet #PompeyCVA #Pompey

 

 

 

Woke up this morning with a horses head next to him.

[trousers]

@pn_Rory_McKeown: Trevor Birch and representatives from Portpin arrive. Deepak Chainrai is there, so sign of Balram. #pompeyCVA http://t.co/VLlehcm6

[jawillwill]

I don't get it. What's happening today?

[Lurkster]

pn_neil_allen: Heard David Lampitt not going to be here as he today starts his new job with Supporters’ Direct. #PompeyCVA #Pompey [via Twitter]

[pedg]

All the news tweets here:

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/news-special

[trousers]

@pn_Rory_McKeown: Trevor Birch has refused me entry into the meeting, but @pn_neil_allen is in. Will update from outside the ground.

[trousers]

@pn_neil_allen: Birch; Football League want amendment if CVA goes thru it is still 'at their discretion' whether to grant golden share. #PompeyCVA #Pompey

[Under Weststand]

LOL the PST want to do a presentation at the CVA meeting. HA HA all very well to make pledges, a whole different scenario when it comes to making good on said pledges.

Good luck with that!