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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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Lazlo78

Lazlo78

Posted
Posted
Yes but I don't think they can or will go round all the creditors they represent to get an indication which way to vote. Clapham (or one of the many who know better than I), I believe, said they are duty bound to select the option that give the 'best' deal for the creditors and even though 2p is close to nothing it is still something.

 

Displaying that I am even more ignorant than yourself, if "anything is better than nothing" is the case, then why would anyone ever offer more than 1p?

 

Edit: Pah, Torres to the resque ;)

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Torres

Torres

Posted
Posted

Isn't it a shame that the players they'd have liked to keep have left and those they'd like to get rid of are still there?

 

Anyway....

 

There will certainly be plenty of players out there desperate to play for this club

 

True.

 

and good enough to play.

 

Not true.

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Ric

Ric

Posted
Posted
http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/pompey-expect-futacs-exit-1-3968099

 

 

So despite the sh*t they are in, they are still offering players money they dont have !!

 

Takes the ****, doesn't it? They just don't understand how that got themselves into this position, and how they need to avoid repeating the same mistakes.

 

I'm not convinced they will be put down, and if they are given a stay of execution then it's blindingly obvious that they are going to do their damnedest to put themselves right back in the same situation again.

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Minsk

Minsk

Posted
Posted
Most of the creditors will vote for it and will be too embaressed to say anything.

Baker Tilley will vote for it and say that are dissapointed given the fraction the original creditors were on to start with but they are duty bound to support the best option for the creditors and liquidation would bring them nothing.

HMRC will vote against and have a moan at the courts decision on football creditors rule.

 

Exactly what I expect to happen.

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted (edited)
Does anyone (nutjobs on here or otherwise) actually know what the percentage stake each significant creditor has in the CVA vote, or is that classified information?

No, but we can work it out.

Unsecured creditors:

CSI PLC - Non Interest £10.5m

Trade creditors £2m

Transfer & Agents Fees - English Clubs £1.1m

Transfer & Agents Fees - Overseas Clubs £1m

Players bonuses 09/10 £1.75m

Unpaid Salaries 11/12 £1.6m

HMRC VAT £0.74m

HMRC PAYE & NI £1.6

Net Salaries Control £0.5m

CVA creditors OldCo £16.5m

Accruals & Other creditors £1.6m

Deferred income £1.25m

Total £40m

 

I'm not sure if the footballer creditors get a vote, I suspect they do, but if not then the revised total would be £33.6m. You have of course got Portapin's charge over the ground, a secured creditor therefore totalling £17.6m. If someone can confirm whether the football creditors get a vote (and also Portapin) then you can work out the percentage vote each party has - assuming Baker Tilly block vote for the OldCo debt.

Edited by Chez
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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)

Meanwhile....good news for Coventry City....

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18523185

 

Coventry City have had their transfer embargo lifted by the Football League, enabling them to make signings ahead of the new season on 18 August.

The relegated League One club were given the green light after filing their accounts, which have consequently been signed off by the Football League.

 

Would be a shame if all those players "desperate" to join Pompey were now snatched from under their nose by one of the bigger teams in League One....

Edited by trousers
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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted

brian howe ‏@brianhowe01

Pompey supporters trust still seem unable to make a realistic bid for the club. Shame. Knowing what I know. Mr Chanrai is the only choice and I trust him to take the club forward. I would willingly be part of his team.

Jonny Barrett ‏@BarrettJonny

Glad @brianhowe01 isn't part of our club. Won't help fans who love the club but happy to work with the man who brought us to our knees #PFC

brian howe ‏@brianhowe01

Can anyone factually state what Mr Chanrai has ever done wrong ? Not rumours. FACTS.

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Saint J 77

Saint J 77

Posted
Posted
Appleton is adamant that free of the constraints of administration and Football League monitoring, he would have all 18 on board by now.

 

Appleton: "Players are there hanging on and hanging on and hanging because Pompey are an attractive club for a lot of players out there – Championship players as well. Once the football club comes out of administration I think there will be a number of players who would be desperate to join us."

 

th_ROFL.gif

 

lol..yeah desperate for the crazy wages you offer!

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Doctoroncall

Doctoroncall

Posted
Posted (edited)
brian howe ‏@brianhowe01

Pompey supporters trust still seem unable to make a realistic bid for the club. Shame. Knowing what I know. Mr Chanrai is the only choice and I trust him to take the club forward. I would willingly be part of his team.

Jonny Barrett ‏@BarrettJonny

Glad @brianhowe01 isn't part of our club. Won't help fans who love the club but happy to work with the man who brought us to our knees #PFC

brian howe ‏@brianhowe01

Can anyone factually state what Mr Chanrai has ever done wrong ? Not rumours. FACTS.

 

Is that Brian's real twitter account?

 

 

 

'...which is so frustrating for all of us.'

 

ummh, no, it's thoroughly entertaining for some of us!

Edited by Doctoroncall
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Truckasaurus

Truckasaurus

Posted
Posted

When club 24 are liquidated we are going to need a rivalry,someone we can loath. :x

 

I'm afraid it is going to have to be the cherries. :lol:

 

Can anyone think of anyone else,looking at rivalrys up and down the country it doesn't have to be the nearest team but for us it will have to be Boscombe. The blue few won't even have a plan B in place for this season and they will be in the wilderness for donkeys years even if they do get plan B up and running.

 

God bless the A31

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TopGun

TopGun

Posted
Posted (edited)

Either way, the long and the short of it, given the CVA has a 28 day consultation period, means that Appy will be starting his pre-season training with 11 or so players he doesn't want and 11 or so players who don't want to be there.

 

He can't sign anyone in that period and Chinny may just decide to give it up and liquidate at the end of the CVA period if there is no club buyer or player outward movement.

 

Catch-22.

 

Even if that is surmounted by all those players agreeing to forfeit or further defer deferred wages, let alone outstanding contracts (which seems unlikely), if Appy is still about, he has to get the embargo that Birch denies exists lifted and get in anyone he can.

 

Appy daze.

Edited by TopGun
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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
Yes but I don't think they can or will go round all the creditors they represent to get an indication which way to vote. Clapham (or one of the many who know better than I), I believe, said they are duty bound to select the option that give the 'best' deal for the creditors and even though 2p is close to nothing it is still something.

 

But it's not as much as 3p. :D

 

As I've said before, this "accept the 2p or get nothing" is bollocks. As long as the parachute payments are coming, Chinny will not let the cesspit get liquidated (yet).

 

A few more thousand pages to this thread still to come.

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Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted

The trip to Gibraltar is going to be intresting. TBH will have to play so they can't fine him a weeks wages. It would be nice if Kanu could make a 5 minute cameo appearance as well.

 

From the start I didn't want them gone completely, but now I think football will be better without them.

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
But it's not as much as 3p. :D

 

As I've said before, this "accept the 2p or get nothing" is bollocks. As long as the parachute payments are coming, Chinny will not let the cesspit get liquidated (yet).

 

A few more thousand pages to this thread still to come.

 

yes but at the point of the CVA vote 2p or nothing is the only option they have to vote on. I don't know how quickly these things can be redone? If the vote is against 2p on the day how soon before an offer of 3p can be made and voted on?

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

I'm away next week so can we try and keep the pages down to single figures, it could take me a whole day to catch up.

 

Likely scenario? - the creditors bend over and allow Chinny's plans through.

 

The club emerges unscathed having quietly wiped out up to £180M of debt, the FL say they can see no problem.

The few celebrate and stick a sixth of their fingers up at football, a new promotion bid Spendathon is launched - and that little dot you can see is the next grubby administration gently sailing into view on a distant horizon.

 

Ever wondered why nutjobs despise them?...

Should pompey start next season, and start it without penalty, AND with the debts wiped out, it will be a fVking disgrace.

 

The FA Cup will still sit there in the record books, Ben Haim will drive his over-chromed Tatmobile around town, and somewhere in Portsea a young cancer sufferer will be denied some support that could make their last months in this world a little less harrowing.

 

 

The rest of football might let them get away with it but you'll never see me writing pompey with a capital, or recognising anything they do in the future.

The club cheated, and has been since the mid 2000s - if there's no punishment, I will no longer consider them part of the league structure, how can you when everyone else plays to the rules?

 

The may well get away with it next week, but we know what they did...

They forcibly dragged the game, and the city, into disrepute.

Stealing from dying kids and local traders then ignoring the debt?

You couldn't make it up.

 

And today UnAppy talks about offering generous terms to some old loser??

They can't afford to clear debt, but they can still cough up cash on any old **** player, just to gain a sporting advantage....

 

 

Do the right thing this time Mr Creditor.

Bring out the bolt gun.

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gaz

gaz

Posted
Posted

Chinnys CVA is conditional, on the basis that the wage bill is slashed. No movement there means no CVA, no more money injected to fund the club through the Admin process, which each and every payday that is deferred sees the liabilities increasing.

 

Pull The Plug.

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eurosaint

eurosaint

Posted
Posted
The trip to Gibraltar is going to be intresting. TBH will have to play so they can't fine him a weeks wages. It would be nice if Kanu could make a 5 minute cameo appearance as well.

 

From the start I didn't want them gone completely, but now I think football will be better without them.

 

I am still in that camp !

I love to see them squirm and suffer but TBH I do not want them gone completely as we would have no reference point for rivalry or vitriol when required !

To the best of my knowledge we have never actually had a poll on this, surely the time has come to ask the question :

a) Total liquidation ?

b) Struggle along in League 1 or League 2?

c) Phoenix club in Blue Square ?

Personally I can live with option b) as it is amusing for us and painful for them !!

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Truckasaurus

Truckasaurus

Posted
Posted

Don't fret my little darlings it's liquidation.The trust just as well tie all their money onto a ballon and let it go.(More chance of a return that way)

 

Chinny said no,if the high wage earners are still there.(someone on the poopey web thingy said all the clubs are waiting 'til after the Euros) yeah right i'm sure Shrewsbury are keeping an eye on the Spain V France game to snap up a few bargains and if they miss out on Benzema they might go for Kanu instead.

 

God bless high wage earners

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dvaughanwilliams

dvaughanwilliams

Posted
Posted
No, but we can work it out.

Unsecured creditors:

CSI PLC - Non Interest £10.5m

Trade creditors £2m

Transfer & Agents Fees - English Clubs £1.1m

Transfer & Agents Fees - Overseas Clubs £1m

Players bonuses 09/10 £1.75m

Unpaid Salaries 11/12 £1.6m

HMRC VAT £0.74m

HMRC PAYE & NI £1.6

Net Salaries Control £0.5m

CVA creditors OldCo £16.5m

Accruals & Other creditors £1.6m

Deferred income £1.25m

Total £40m

 

I'm not sure if the footballer creditors get a vote, I suspect they do, but if not then the revised total would be £33.6m. You have of course got Portapin's charge over the ground, a secured creditor therefore totalling £17.6m. If someone can confirm whether the football creditors get a vote (and also Portapin) then you can work out the percentage vote each party has - assuming Baker Tilly block vote for the OldCo debt.

 

I seem to remember Birch making comments along the line of 'Football creditors will be excluded from the CVA'. Whether that is just a reflection of the fact that the debt owed to them will not get reduced or an indication that they are not involved in the process at all, I don't know. When AA gave the Football Creditors a vote, it was considered controversial.

 

I still don't understand why the trust think that the administrator of CSI will vote in favour of their CVA. If Chinny takes over, he said he would eliminate that debt as the prinicple creditor of CSI. If the trust takes over, would Chinny be due to get paid back £28m?

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SaintRichmond

SaintRichmond

Posted
Posted
The trip to Gibraltar is going to be intresting. TBH will have to play so they can't fine him a weeks wages. It would be nice if Kanu could make a 5 minute cameo appearance as well.

 

From the start I didn't want them gone completely, but now I think football will be better without them.

 

Perhaps someone is making a momkey out of them ??

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Crab Lungs

Crab Lungs

Posted
Posted
Got to laugh. Its alright for pompey as Alex Oxlade-Chaimberlains younger brother is registered to play for pompey (he's 14)

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/the-oxlade-chamberlain-family-member-who-didn-t-get-away-from-pompey-1-3971782

 

Typical Pompey upbringing then...

 

 

" Christian is more of a midfielder than a winger, like his dad and brother."

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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted
Trying to mimimise arrogance, in all honestly, if the younger Chamberlain was good enough, he'd have been in our academy too.

 

Quite. With an England player as his dad and his brother already lighting up the Saints academy you can be sure our scouts would have looked him over and over again just to make doubly sure.

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)

@pn_neil_allen: Trevor Birch insists PKF have yet to take a penny out of #Pompey in administration fees. http://t.co/0V7DJAhv

 

Trevor Birch has insisted PKF have not taken a penny out of Pompey.

 

 

The administrators have been at Fratton Park since the club entered administration on February 17.

 

Since then they have amassed fees of more than £700,000.

 

A creditors’ committee meeting on May 20 gave the authority for PKF to take the first £425,000 out of the club in its current state.

 

Regardless, Birch claims to date the administrators have taken no such action in the interests of not affecting Pompey’s recovery.

 

And the former Chelsea chief executive believes that will be the case until PKF can be sure the club is no longer under threat of liquidation and able to afford such a payment.

 

Birch said: ‘We have not taken any funds out of the club so far because the cash flow will not allow it.

 

‘From May 20 onwards we have been entitled to do so and were granted the authority for £425,000 -– but have not.

 

‘We are not drawing any funds. We have not had a penny and not put any invoices in.

 

‘There is not the money in the job to do it and we want to make sure the club has chance to survive.

 

‘There are costs so far but we have not drawn them in terms of funds.’

 

The current total for PKF fees is expected to be revealed at Monday’s creditors’ meeting.

 

Creditors will also be asked to vote on Portpin’s CVA proposals as they seek to seize ownership of the club for a third time.

 

Should the move be approved, there is a 28-day cooling period for a deal to be completed.

 

Pompey can then move out of administration.

 

The Pompey Supporters’ Trust have indicated they will also be making a bid within the next few weeks.

 

I wonder if PKF shareholders are happy with Birch putting the plight of Pompey ahead of their own profits and cash flow?

 

Surely the main goal of an administration company is to make as much profit out of the industry they are in as possible?

Edited by trousers
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saintjay77

saintjay77

Posted
Posted
@pn_neil_allen: Trevor Birch insists PKF have yet to take a penny out of #Pompey in administration fees. http://t.co/0V7DJAhv

 

 

 

I wonder if PKF shareholders are happy with Birch putting the plight of Pompey ahead of their own profits and cash flow?

 

 

 

Surely the main goal of an administration company is to make as much profit out of the industry they are in as possible?

 

Didnt he just admit that Pompey dont have the funds to pay their bills? As in Pompey owe £425,000 but they dont have the funds to pay it?

 

Isnt that trading whilst insolvent???????

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View From The Top

View From The Top

Posted
Posted
@pn_neil_allen: Trevor Birch insists PKF have yet to take a penny out of #Pompey in administration fees. http://t.co/0V7DJAhv

 

 

 

I wonder if PKF shareholders are happy with Birch putting the plight of Pompey ahead of their own profits and cash flow?

 

 

Surely the main goal of an administration company is to make as much profit out of the industry they are in as possible?

 

The administrators are classed as FC's and are therefore secured.

 

Explains a lot in itself I reckon.

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
Didnt he just admit that Pompey dont have the funds to pay their bills? As in Pompey owe £425,000 but they dont have the funds to pay it?

 

Isnt that trading whilst insolvent???????

 

Indeed. I assume PKF now get to vote at the CVA meeting....what with them now being on the ever growing Pompey debt list.....?

 

edit: ah, just seen View From The Top's post about PKF being a Football Creditor and thus not subject to the derisory 2p in the £ offer.... no conflict of interests there then....

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Minty

Minty

Posted
Posted
I wonder if PKF shareholders are happy with Birch putting the plight of Pompey ahead of their own profits and cash flow?

 

Surely the main goal of an administration company is to make as much profit out of the industry they are in as possible?

 

It's a bit of a double-edged sword but I doubt the shareholders would get anything if the company were to be known as one who only cared about their own profits. If they do a good job other people will use their services. By being sympathetic to the cause, they are generating goodwill and enhancing the reputation of the company. If shareholders have got any sense they should know that they will get their returns through the company doing what it does well, not just for the sake of profit at any cost.

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

Michael Appleton vowed not to surrender to the wage demands of his Pompey targets ignoring the fact that he can't offer anyone anything, let alone sign them.

 

But there's a lesson there.

If you're unable to sign anyone because you've been naughty and you're terminally potless, rather than glumly saying, can't sign anyone if I wanted, why not pretend to the bestest that you are pluckily standing up against greedy players, bravely battling to protect Chinny's promotion-bid warchest!

 

Or in other words, why stop at rewriting history when you can rewrite the present!

 

What shall we do today, pay off some debt, negotiate release clauses, apologise to charities, or release more pointlessly-transparent PR drivel?

Yeah, let's have more spin!

 

It sure don't pay the bills, but the dim few just lap it up!

 

Go on, tell us the one about the dock strike, and the tank commander, and how UnAppy is building a promotion squad, and how Chinny will pay creditors.......bless em, I love those little myths.

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Fowllyd

Fowllyd

Posted
Posted (edited)
@pn_neil_allen: Trevor Birch insists PKF have yet to take a penny out of #Pompey in administration fees. http://t.co/0V7DJAhv

 

 

 

I wonder if PKF shareholders are happy with Birch putting the plight of Pompey ahead of their own profits and cash flow?

 

Surely the main goal of an administration company is to make as much profit out of the industry they are in as possible?

 

PKF, like most large accountancy firms, solicitors etc, is a limited liability partnership. They don't have shareholders but are wholly owned by their partners. If the partnership aren't happy with the way Birch is handling this matter he'll soon be informed of that fact.

Edited by Fowllyd
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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
PKF, like most large accountancy firms, solicitors etc, is a limited liability partnership. They don't have shareholders but are wholly owned by their partners. If the partnership aren't happy with the way Birch is handling this matter he'll soon be informed of that fact.

 

Ah, ok - cheers. I learn something everyday on this thread. If nothing else, this thread is educational! :-)

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