Pompey Takeover Saga

[krissyboy31]

Quote from a Telegraph article :

"At its AGM on June 2, the Football League ruled Portsmouth can play on in administration without losing any further points".

I was under the impression that only Birch had said that and it was never 'ruled' by the FL ??

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/portsmouth/9320296/Portsmouths-former-owner-Balram-Chainrai-makes-low-bid-to-buy-debt-ridden-club.html

Play on in administration? Yes!! Exit administration without a CVA? No!! Exit with the proposals on the table which means their previous CVA failed? I'm pretty sure that the FL have been consulting their lawyers and will apply appropriate sanctions.

[Wade Garrett]

Chainrai's generous offer is dependent on certain high earners renegotiating their contracts - in other words, accepting considerably less than the outstanding amounts to be paid. If he doesn't get that agreement, his offer is withdrawn. Without the likes of TBH and Kanu (and, I'd assume, Lawrence, Norris, Kitson et al) he'll be able to spend only revenue income on wages and pocket other income (to wit, the remaining parachute payments).

 

For those of us of a certain vintage, this saga is beginning to resemble that superb comedy show form the 70s, Soap. The start of each episode had a voice-over outlining the convoluted plot, invariably ending with the line "Confused? You won't be - after tonight's episode of Soap!" Needless to say, each episode left you more confused than the previous one...

 

The big earners will only go if they can get comparable contracts elsewhere. If Pompey go bust, they'll get their money anyway. I can't see that sort of business being done.

 

If Pompey get liquidated, will Chanrai own the ground?

[Saint in Paradise]

Play on in administration? Yes!! Exit administration without a CVA? No!! Exit with the proposals on the table which means their previous CVA failed? I'm pretty sure that the FL have been consulting their lawyers and will apply appropriate sanctions.

 

I wouldn't hold your breath about that. I have no confidence in the FL having the guts.

[Truckasaurus]

I think the points deduction is irrelavant. The way this saga is unfolding i can only see two outcomes.

 

"A" Liquidation. My favorite by a F**KING country mile,no more limping on for fun for me.

 

"B" Chinny or the trust get the corpse and as a result,no investment,poor team and will struggle to avoid religation.The poopey fans who think they will "walk Div 3" have no knowledge of football. If they get rid of the high earners their team is going to be really awful if they keep their high earners:- see "A"

 

God bless the football creditors rule (the most stupid rule i know appart from a yellow card for taking off your shirt after scoring a goal,instigated by shirt sponsers and the FA kept that f***ing quiet)

[TopGun]

So for Chinny to buy Pompey, within a few weeks TB has to offload the following contracted players: TBH, Kanu, Huseklepp, Norris, Mullins, Mokeana, Lawrence, Varney and Kitson.

 

Should be fun to watch.

[capitalsaint]

Play on in administration? Yes!! Exit administration without a CVA? No!! Exit with the proposals on the table which means their previous CVA failed? I'm pretty sure that the FL have been consulting their lawyers and will apply appropriate sanctions.

 

If the creditors of CVA1 agree to receiving a smaller percentage, there must be an argument that it has been renegotiated rather than failed.

[View From The Top]

Been away for a week in the sun. Anyone want to sum up events I've missed in a paragraph?

[rallyboy]

one paragraph?....the league are toothless, Chinny has made an insulting CVA offer that reduces some £10K debt to about £30 and repeated his failed promise to pay small creditors, the Trust are struggling, no players have left so no one will buy anyway - the corpse stumbles on - but the plucky bestest have topped the 72-strong table for fans naive enough to give free advertising to a utility provider on social media, a victory for park-packers everywhere!

In other news - several posters suggested it isn't fair that they should get away with blatant cheating and insolvent trading, the figures don't stack up, and I did another gag about Avram and prossies.

[Chez]

Been away for a week in the sun. Anyone want to sum up events I've missed in a paragraph?

 

Chinny's CVA offer turned out to be as suspected: 2p in the £1 (equalling £500,000), plus he promises (again) to pay charities and the creditors owed less then £2500 in full. However, this offer is dependent on several of big earners leaving first. What else? Ward joined Palace for £400k to keep the wolves from the door a while longer. PFC season tickets went on sale and that's about it. Meanwhile we toyed with bringing in an England keeper or two...

[pedg]

According to the document:

 

Estimated Football Creditor as at 30 June 2012 8,463K

The football creditors will fall outside of the CVA and will be satisfied by the purchaser

 

So to buy pompey its going to cost chinny at least 9 million (football creditors + charities/small businesses + 500K for the rest). With only 14 million in Parachute payments (possibly less) to come difficult to see how he will be able to get all his money back.

[Chez]

According to the document:

 

Estimated Football Creditor as at 30 June 2012 8,463K

The football creditors will fall outside of the CVA and will be satisfied by the purchaser

 

So to buy pompey its going to cost chinny at least 9 million (football creditors + charities/small businesses + 500K for the rest). With only 14 million in Parachute payments (possibly less) to come difficult to see how he will be able to get all his money back.

 

how much is the football creditors debt currently?

[pedg]

how much is the football creditors debt currently?

 

8,463K minus a few weeks wages.

 

This is the relevant section in the CVA Document:

 

Edited 9 June, 2012 by pedg

[Minsk]

8,463K minus a few weeks wages.

 

This is the relevant section in the CVA Document:

 

 

So wage deferrals have come to 1.84m in just 5 months = about 368K per month.

 

Football creditors owed almost 8.5m from the 14m PP remaining = only 6.5m remaining - and that won't be available to be pocketed until well into next year.......

[pedg]

So wage deferrals have come to 1.84m in just 5 months = about 368K per month.

 

Football creditors owed almost 8.5m from the 14m PP remaining = only 6.5m remaining - and that won't be available to be pocketed until well into next year.......

 

minus the money to those owed under 2,500 and the 500K to the rest. Also still not sure of the significance of the fact that the document list proof of debt of about 25 million to 'Professional Football Players Claim Element 1,2,3 and 4'. If those are football debt, though the figures above imply not, they have no chance.

[sidthesquid]

8,463K minus a few weeks wages.

 

This is the relevant section in the CVA Document:

 

 

A few points for clarification from my uneducated perspective, please....

1 The football creditors will fall outside of the CVA and will be satisfied by the purchaser Does this mean Chinny is expecting to have to pay this from the PPs or is this the bit he is refusing to pay up for?

2 Unpaid salaries for 11/12 is presumably Dec/Jan wages?

3 Unpaid deferrals alone as a debt are actually over £400k/month and rising, never mind paying the actual wages. How can this be sustainable by Birch?

 

If Chinny has to find that £9mill, plus £1mill a month in wages, never mind other running costs, what the hell is in it for him? No wonder he won't touch it until the high earners are off the book. The more you look at it, this is a last throw of the dice by Birch. I don't imagine he wanted to end up cosied up with Chinny, but this really is last desperate act of brinkmanship.

He has to try and force the high earners out, or force the football league or PFA to concede that 'for the good of football's 'pluckiest little sleeping giant,' either they will cough up the difference or let them make the players redundant without full re-imbursement. Unless Chinny takes on the full footballing debt, here is no other way to make the sums up. The Poopey trust being able to fund it is just laughable.

Tje interesting question is now whether the players crack, whether the FL/PFA will either cough up or allow their own rules to be breached, and if so, at what punishment to the club.

We are into the end-game, and like all good thrillers, it could still go several ways. When's the next episode?

[rallyboy]

I 4-1 am pleased to see that the glorious cup-run heroes of more than two years ago still haven't been paid.

 

You lie to the football authorities, you present a false set of accounts to gain a sporting advantage, you criminally assemble a squad for a cup run by buying out contracts in an underhand manner, you beat a third tier side 4-1 and gob off about it for ages....and it turns out that you didn't even bother to pay your own fricking players!

 

 

So current situation is - no income to run the club, season ticket money likely to be used up before a ball is kicked, wages gobbling up the parachutes at an alarming rate...

 

Chances of Chinny getting his £18M back? Zero.

Chances of Trust outbidding him? Zero.

Level of respect I have for them as a football club on a scale of one to one hundred?

Zero.

 

 

What they've done is quite simple - deliberate and prolonged cheating.

Judgement Day must be approaching.

[Weston Super Saint]

8,463K minus a few weeks wages.

 

This is the relevant section in the CVA Document:

 

 

Errrrrr, one question....

 

Since they went into admin they have been under a 'transfer embargo' from the FL.

 

How, then, have they managed to rack up One million, six hundred and twenty four thousand POUNDS worth of transfer and agents fees POST APPOINTMENT?

 

Or is this £1.6m attributable to the 'free' loans they took on that were to eat squirrels, camp in a tent and ride a bike to work?

 

Kind of makes a mockery of the transfer embargo that the FL imposes to stop clubs from accruing more debt....

[derry]

Only a certified nutter would give up guaranteed contracts of 750k to 2m and join a club on much reduced money. The PFA/League have to pick up the contracts if PFC goes under. It would be a scandal of monumental proportions if they persuaded the players to walk.

[Gorgiesaint]

Errrrrr, one question....

 

Since they went into admin they have been under a 'transfer embargo' from the FL.

 

How, then, have they managed to rack up One million, six hundred and twenty four thousand POUNDS worth of transfer and agents fees POST APPOINTMENT?

 

Or is this £1.6m attributable to the 'free' loans they took on that were to eat squirrels, camp in a tent and ride a bike to work?

 

Kind of makes a mockery of the transfer embargo that the FL imposes to stop clubs from accruing more debt....

 

Very good point...

 

Um my question, why are oversea's clubs being included in football creditors? I thought we learnt from last time that overseas clubs were just unsecured creditors?

[bridge too far]

Not my question - someone else asked it but I didn't see an answer:

 

How are they able to sell season tickets? IIRC we weren't allowed to when we were in administration.

[trousers]

Not my question - someone else asked it but I didn't see an answer:

 

How are they able to sell season tickets? IIRC we weren't allowed to when we were in administration.

 

Because Pompey are a law unto themselves

[sidthesquid]

Errrrrr, one question....

 

Since they went into admin they have been under a 'transfer embargo' from the FL.

 

How, then, have they managed to rack up One million, six hundred and twenty four thousand POUNDS worth of transfer and agents fees POST APPOINTMENT?

 

Or is this £1.6m attributable to the 'free' loans they took on that were to eat squirrels, camp in a tent and ride a bike to work?

 

Kind of makes a mockery of the transfer embargo that the FL imposes to stop clubs from accruing more debt....

 

Rather boringly it wasn't for feed for the squirrel farm, new guy-ropes or a puncture repair kit, but would be staged payments on old player purchases.

[View From The Top]

Not my question - someone else asked it but I didn't see an answer:

 

How are they able to sell season tickets? IIRC we weren't allowed to when we were in administration.

 

It's because the season ticket money is effectively being escrowed.

 

We could have done the same.

[mcjwills]

I hear the trusts new master plan did not go as smoothly as they wished on Friday night. They only got one number on the Euromillions.

[pedg]

Thinking about it what are the trust going to do to clear the football creditors debt? I guess they are going to have to get someone to loan them the money to pay it to be paid back from the parachute payments?

[Chez]

Thinking about it what are the trust going to do to clear the football creditors debt? I guess they are going to have to get someone to loan them the money to pay it to be paid back from the parachute payments?

this is the key question. They clearly have the funds to buy the club and clear all the other debts via the CVA, but its settling this football debt that's the pain in the backside. Can they make stage payments perhaps using the remaining parachute payments to help?

 

If they can do that then it's all about matching the outgoings with income. The wage bill is falling, slowly, but as with Chinny's bid, unless the top earners **** off the PST would struggle to break even.

 

I guess it matters not as Chinny is never going to allow the PST to take the club as he won't see a return on his own investment that way.

[Saint Thomas]

Pretty novel tactic from Pompey - entering into the Euros to try and claim some prize money! Either that or Sky Bet were being a bit special yesterday and confusing Portsmouth with Portugal. Easy mistake to make, they could both do with a bailout.

 

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/392461_10150845284552373_1490621997_n.jpg

[mcjwills]

Pretty novel tactic from Pompey - entering into the Euros to try and claim some prize money! Either that or Sky Bet were being a bit special yesterday and confusing Portsmouth with Portugal. Easy mistake to make, they could both do with a bailout.

 

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/392461_10150845284552373_1490621997_n.jpg

 

Have they not signed Ronaldo et al.. to play in league 1 next year?

[dvaughanwilliams]

this is the key question. They clearly have the funds to buy the club and clear all the other debts via the CVA, but its settling this football debt that's the pain in the backside. Can they make stage payments perhaps using the remaining parachute payments to help?

 

If they can do that then it's all about matching the outgoings with income. The wage bill is falling, slowly, but as with Chinny's bid, unless the top earners **** off the PST would struggle to break even.

 

I guess it matters not as Chinny is never going to allow the PST to take the club as he won't see a return on his own investment that way.

 

I know that to qualify for retaining a Golden Share requires that Football Creditors to be paid in full, but does it matter over the timescale? Could they commit the unreceived PPs to be paid direct to all outstanding Football Creditors (the FL would do this anyway), with none of the money received directly by the club.

 

4 weeks to ditch the 'quality' players through the constant deriding in the press and increasing the pressure on them to hand in their 14 days notice.

[Kingsland Red]

Make of this what you will- Peter Storrie, was at the Hampshire Premier League (Step 7) AGM at Fleetlands FC this morning, representing Liss Athletic.

[Truckasaurus]

I have been thinking about this for well over a year now,little bits of info,piecing together things peeps have written on here and with other bits of knowledge(probably the wrong word) that i have in my tiny brain,the following:-

 

portsmuff have been owned by a few "dodgy" characters in the last few years.So much money has filtered through the rotting corpse,hundreds of millions,loads of money,money most of us cannot imagine(and i can imagine alot,almost £4,000,000)

 

Look anywhere in the world and what you find is the more money involved,the more corruption.If the TRUTH came out in football none of us would watch it that i am sure. I am thinking someone is trying to get poopey liquidated on purpose without it looking to obvious. Why rack up a wage bill like they have.They didn't have to do it and if they hadn't they could have moved foward.

 

All that land and god isn't gonna make anymore,it won't go bad and it will be there for a long time(longer than me or you)

 

There is alot more to this saga than meets the eye and i don't think anyone will get to know the truth.

 

How do you think all these owners get rich ?

 

God bless the fraud squad

[OldNick]

if Pompey did go into liquidation would that mean the FL would have to pay the players contracts up? The PP would not come from the Pl and so perhaps the FL cant afford them to go pop and hence is a bargaining tool for TB and why the FL are doing nothing. of course I may have got it wrong who would have to pay if they do go pop

[JackFrost]

Make of this what you will- Peter Storrie, was at the Hampshire Premier League (Step 7) AGM at Fleetlands FC this morning, representing Liss Athletic.

 

I thought I saw Carlos Tevez driving up the M27 near Petersfield this morning. . .

[70's Mike]

I thought I saw Carlos Tevez driving up the M27 near Petersfield this morning. . .

 

had been to a meeting at the Petersfield book shop to**er

[suewhistle]

if Pompey did go into liquidation would that mean the FL would have to pay the players contracts up? The PP would not come from the Pl and so perhaps the FL cant afford them to go pop and hence is a bargaining tool for TB and why the FL are doing nothing. of course I may have got it wrong who would have to pay if they do go pop

 

No shame in getting it wrong - have to admit I'm pretty confused myself, but I don't think the FL has any obligations to individual players. Their contracts are with the clubs, and the FL use the Golden share idea to force the clubs to act appropriately (mwahahaha)..

[The Kraken]

Make of this what you will- Peter Storrie, was at the Hampshire Premier League (Step 7) AGM at Fleetlands FC this morning, representing Liss Athletic.

 

Peter Storrie is the chairman of Liss.

[pedg]

Peter Storrie is the chairman of Liss.

 

Did you mistype an 'e' as an 's' there?

[Waterside.saint]

Did you mistype an 'e' as an 's' there?

 

I see what you did there

[rallyboy]

bombshell alert.......

 

I've discussed the pompey situation with Mr Storrie quite recently.

 

It did dawn on me at the time that if he knew some of the stuff I'd written on here he might be unimpressed!

 

His main point was that the squad they have was good enough to overcome the points penalty, perhaps suggesting that the motivation of management or players was flawed.

I didn't ask for financial advice.

 

 

 

For the record, I've never met Avram Grant, and wouldn't be able to keep a straight face if I did.

[The Kraken]

[spyinthesky]

For the want of something better to do I had a quick look at the PFC official site.

 

13 players on the list ie

 

Mokoena (assumed weekly wages - £10k)

Halford £15k

TBH £35k

Webster £0.5k

Lawrence £16k

Mullins £7k

Norris £12k

Futacs £8k

Huseklepp £15k

Varney £12k

Harris £0.5k

Kitson £20k

Kanu £15k

Total per week £165k Av per player per week £12,692

Total per annum £8.6m on 13 players with no keepers!!

 

Quality over Quantity!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

On top of this next year's Championship table is shown.

Bizarre!!

[RonManager]

 

hehehe

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Poopey

[Dark Munster]

They do appear to be playing the "in the case of liquidation unsecured creditors will get nothing" card rather strongly. Are Baker Tilley bound to accept the scenario that gives the initial creditors the best deal, even if its only one step away from b*gg*r all?

 

Yes, but don't forget the elephant in the room ... in the case of liquidation Chinny doesn't get his hands on the parachute payments.

 

Let's see: Chinny is saying to the poor unsecured sods that unless they accept 2p in the pound (or 2p of 2p in the pound for HMCR et al) he will forgo his £18 million.

 

It seems to me that the unsecured creditors, if they have any brains (a very big if, I agree), will realise that they have Chinny by the balls.

 

If the club are liquidated then Birch is correct, the creditors (excluding the players) will get nothing. The club has no assets. The parachute payments cease. All players contracts revert to Football League. The ground will have a land value but without any planning permission likely at the time of liquidation it is virtually worthless.

 

HMRC will likely contine to reject a CVA but everybody else, less football creditors, are likely to accept.

Prediction - PFC will continue to limp along with or without CVA approval, with or without points deduction BUT only if Chainrai can get rid of the big playing contracts. No mention of the gun running son's property!!!!

 

See above.

 

Sorry being completely thick here , why would the creditors vote against this, surely its either accept this or get the square root of bugger all ( I appreciate they ammount to virtually the same monetarily) but from a purely business perspective wouldn't they rather have something no matter how small rather than nothing? I know thats not what we would want but ....

 

See above.

 

So for Chinny to buy Pompey, within a few weeks TB has to offload the following contracted players: TBH, Kanu, Huseklepp, Norris, Mullins, Mokeana, Lawrence, Varney and Kitson.

 

Should be fun to watch.

In other words, all Chinny needs are 9 horses heads. Lock up your stables.

 

Meanwhile....

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/mandaric-my-pompey-pain-1-3929187

 

Mandaric: My Pompey pain

 

Published on Friday 8 June 2012 11:00

 

Milan Mandaric spoke of his heartache at Pompey’s demise and admitted: It makes me sick.

Poor old Mad Milan, vomiting all the way to the bank.

‘It’s a special club. It’s not only special to me. I have never found one person who has had anything but nice things to say about Portsmouth supporters.

Looks like Milan hasn't been reading this forum then.

‘They are special people and will not let their club die.’

Well, certainly agreed with that. They are very "special".

[eurosaint]

Another new week coming up !

I wonder what gems will pop up ?

 

Will the trust put an offer in ?

Will they offload a superstar ?

Who is covering the weekly costs ?

 

It's been a bit quiet over the weekend, let's hope for some sparkle in the next few days

[Gorgiesaint]

It seems to me that the unsecured creditors, if they have any brains (a very big if, I agree), will realise that they have Chinny by the balls.

 

Not sure that's exactly correct, as can't Birch still sell the club to Chinny without the CVA in place if he deems it's the best offer? Of course that will mean at least a 17 point penalty but then Chinny may not be too worried about that...

[trousers]

bombshell alert.......

 

I've discussed the pompey situation with Mr Storrie quite recently.

 

It did dawn on me at the time that if he knew some of the stuff I'd written on here he might be unimpressed!

 

His main point was that the squad they have was good enough to overcome the points penalty, perhaps suggesting that the motivation of management or players was flawed.

I didn't ask for financial advice.

 

I'm starting to get a bit worried about you my dear fellow nutjobber....attending Pompey administration meetings....chats with Peter Storrie....whatever next? Selling books in Petersfield...? A caravan tour of East Anglia?

 

:-)

[SaintRichmond]

Not sure that's exactly correct, as can't Birch still sell the club to Chinny without the CVA in place if he deems it's the best offer? Of course that will mean at least a 17 point penalty but then Chinny may not be too worried about that...

 

 

Who told you that ?? The FL operate a "fluid" Rules system. They invent them as they and when they feel like it

 

If it were the likes of Luton, Bournemouth etc etc, then yes, the mighty FL act, but for some "Historical" reason, Pompey seem to have them by the nuts about something

 

Perhaps a few of the FL hierachy can trace their parents back to the discharged semens mission near Pompey dockyard

 

Whatever it is, FL's "non action" in respect to a "Club" that have racked up nearly £200 Million in debt over TWO Admins is despicable

[saint si]

Not sure that's exactly correct, as can't Birch still sell the club to Chinny without the CVA in place if he deems it's the best offer? Of course that will mean at least a 17 point penalty but then Chinny may not be too worried about that...

 

It's beyond the footballing penalties though. Unless a CVA is agreed then the debts will stand. So Chainrai won't buy the club without the CVA.

[Winchester Red]

I expect them to do a Maidstone.

 

They'll limp right through the summer and go pop just before the first game of the season.

 

The whole world will then act completely surprised about it

[rallyboy]

panic ye not oh Trousers man, this Rallyboy's not for turning!

My business allows me to mix in some unusual circles on occasions - it's a bit like working undercover, it would be wrong not to chat to the likes of Storrie if you found yourself in a room with them.

It's good to look the enemy in the eye occasionally.

 

And I wouldn't attend a Trust meeting unless a pompey fan paid me to be there.

 

 

When we finally meet up to bury this thread, I'll explain.

 

 

 

Meanwhile, I see no rescue package, no player departures, but plenty of opportunity to hide bad news with England about to lurch through the Euros.