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Pompey Takeover Saga


Fitzhugh Fella

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What determines who is a football creditor? Clearly a player is..clearly another club is. I've heard that agents are. (presumably if they are licensed)

 

But I cannot see why a Chief Exec, or a director, should be a football creditor when someone who works at a club in a more lowly job apparently isn't.

 

What are the rules?

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Just as I was enjoying Lampitt claiming his £18k a month :

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/league-withholds-cash-for-pompey-after-lampitt-claim-1-3898118

 

This jewel popped up, those millionaires of football...Plymouth, finding scraps on the carcass...

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/ex-pompey-trainee-snapped-up-by-plymouth-1-3895482

 

Priceless !

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@pn_neil_allen: RT @mickwill: League withholds cash for Pompey after Lampitt claim http://t.co/LZEhbaZP Oh dear, oh dear!! #Pompey

 

Former FA Head of Integrity and serial charity defrauder decides to claim what he is legally entitled to, regardless of the damage it will do to the club who previously emplyed him on a salary around £600k P.A

 

His time working with Chainrai has really paid off!

 

Another former drain on pompey has shot right up in my estimation today!

 

In fairness, he is probably thinking "why should I get shafted into some rubbish CVA which I know is a scam, I know will never be honoured... from a club that will cease to exist in the near future... f*ck pompey, they will hate me whether I claim my money or not just like Tal Ben Haim and hes getting his 100%, so f*ck em'"

 

David-Lampitt-120214-Smiles-R300.jpg

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truebluetimes

 

12:02 PM on 30/05/2012

 

correct me if i am wrong but was Joe hart owed money and the same with others and are they not football creditor then? They if i am write tried to stop the CVA and couldn't so where they paid in full? I think not they where put on the CVA the same as the rest wasn't they?

 

 

 

 

Glad to see the locals never let us down.

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Former FA Head of Integrity and serial charity defrauder decides to claim what he is legally entitled to, regardless of the damage it will do to the club who previously emplyed him on a salary around £600k P.A

 

His time working with Chainrai has really paid off!

 

Another former drain on pompey has shot right up in my estimation today!

 

In fairness, he is probably thinking "why should I get shafted into some rubbish CVA which I know is a scam, I know will never be honoured... from a club that will cease to exist in the near future... f*ck pompey, they will hate me whether I claim my money or not just like Tal Ben Haim and hes getting his 100%, so f*ck em'"

 

David-Lampitt-120214-Smiles-R300.jpg

 

I don't see why Lampitt should be deemed a football creditor and not for example someone that worked in the ticket office - would be interested to know how the League differentiate between the two - could open the floodgates for claims from redundant/existing employees perhaps?

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What determines who is a football creditor? Clearly a player is..clearly another club is. I've heard that agents are. (presumably if they are licensed)

 

But I cannot see why a Chief Exec, or a director, should be a football creditor when someone who works at a club in a more lowly job apparently isn't.

 

What are the rules?

 

I've tried ato answer my own question, but all I can find on-line is the generalisation that football players and clubs are football creditors. Can't see anything that would include Lampitt. Nor do I remember any talk of Storrie being a football creditor when he went. Anyone know more?

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I've tried ato answer my own question, but all I can find on-line is the generalisation that football players and clubs are football creditors. Can't see anything that would include Lampitt. Nor do I remember any talk of Storrie being a football creditor when he went. Anyone know more?

 

I found reference in the FL rules to their Articles of Association, but then couldn't find that document anywhere

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Interesting this propaganda thing

 

We don't even know if Lumpitt actually did this other than the snooze writing about it (do we?) - How did they know?

 

They'll write anything to be the champions of the few, which usually just means blaming everyone else other than the worlds bestest ™

 

Allen must either really hate his job (ie, know what he's having to do to fill the pages, but needing to do it to keep the money coming in at home) or either he believes all the sh1t (and therefore is just a complete ar5ehole). My monies on the second.

Edited by Winchester Red
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I've tried ato answer my own question, but all I can find on-line is the generalisation that football players and clubs are football creditors. Can't see anything that would include Lampitt. Nor do I remember any talk of Storrie being a football creditor when he went. Anyone know more?

 

Maybe Lampitt has used his inside knowledge of the FA to extend the definition of what constitutes a football creditor. It appears that he has made a claim as a staff member and that the FA have accepted the claim. That would have major implications for clubs trying to shed staff.

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I'd like to see an article in the Snooze along the lines of:-

 

FANS MUST TAKE PART OF THE BLAME FOR POMPEY DECLINE

 

...and then chapter and verse about how there were no dissenting voices and demonstrations about Mandy selling the club to the gun runners son or the subsequent sales to the fake sheik, the invisible man and the russian mafia. They've had plenty of chances to raise their voices about the shady characters killing their club. But while the 'quality' signings were happening and the FA Cup was being bought, they were all happy.

 

Come on Allen, show some balls, Many of the people you are blaming deserve it, but you seem to be missing out one critical party in all this.

 

Maybe Rallyboy could draft a piece for you?

Edited by Winchester Red
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@pn_neil_allen: RT @mickwill: League withholds cash for Pompey after Lampitt claim http://t.co/LZEhbaZP Oh dear, oh dear!! #Pompey

 

"jobert

 

A few E-mails or calls to Sports Direct wouldn`t go amiss"

 

Dear jobert,

 

Thanks for contacting us to tell us Lumpitt is a thieving c... and should be fired.

 

Sadly we don't employ him, so there's not much we can do. If you want some more Kappa trainers or a cheap England shirt, fill your boots, else take your twelve fingers and webbed feet and **** off back to your sister's room.

 

Lots of love,

 

Sports Direct.

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I'd like to see an article in the Snooze along the lines of:-

 

FANS MUST TAKE PART OF THE BLAME FOR POMPEY DECLINE

 

...and then chapter and verse about how there were no dissenting voices and demonstrations about Mandy selling the club to the gun runners son or the subsequent sales to the fake sheik, the invisible man and the russian mafia. They've had plenty of chances to raise their voices about the shady characters killing their club. But while the 'quality' signings were happening and the FA Cup was being bought, they were all happy.

 

Come on Allen, show some balls, Many of the people you are blaming deserve it, but you seem to be missing out one critical party in all this.

 

Maybe Rallyboy could draft a piece for you?

 

Allen was adamant on twitter a while back that he'd been asking the difficult questions and had criticised Lampitt in the News, the Express (whatever that is) and to his face. I, for one, think he was lying and is a bull****ter.

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Allen was adamant on twitter a while back that he'd been asking the difficult questions and had criticised Lampitt in the News, the Express (whatever that is) and to his face. I, for one, think he was lying and is a bull****ter.

 

He's has criticised everyone and blamed everyone else (although I only know what's in print, not what he's said to people faces. I'd put a lot of money on them not giving a toss what a crap small town journo thinks of them anyway though).

 

The only people he hasn't apportioned blame to is the fans, and I think they deserve a fair share.

 

I'd give him an ounce of respect if he wrote that story, but he's just like the local politicians. He's just out to be applauded and loved (and keep his job)

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Maybe Lampitt has used his inside knowledge of the FA to extend the definition of what constitutes a football creditor. It appears that he has made a claim as a staff member and that the FA have accepted the claim. That would have major implications for clubs trying to shed staff.

 

According to Wiki (yeah, yeah - I know) - a football club creditor is a player, another club owed money, and staff and it implies it's ALL staff. Other short articles from various law firms either say it's just football staff (i.e. players, coaches, managers) or it's just 'staff'.

 

I'm sure I read somewhere before that the ancilliary staff hadn't been paid last time around.

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Regulation 16.9.8... http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20110629/section-4-clubs_2293633_2125725

 

16.19.8 as a result of its review of all the documents and information submitted by the Championship Club pursuant to Regulations 16.2 to 16.18, and having taken into account any failure of the Championship Club to supply any such documents or information, in its reasonable opinion it determines that the Championship Club will not over the course of the following Season be able to:

 

(a) pay its liabilities to the creditors listed in Article 80.1 of the League's articles of association and to any foreign Transferor Club (in so far as they are or will become creditors of the Championship Club) and to its employees as they fall due; or

(b) fulfil its obligations to play fixtures under the jurisdiction of the League; or

© be able to provide such rights, facilities and services as are required to enable the League to fulfil its commercial and broadcasting contracts.

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He's has criticised everyone and blamed everyone else (although I only know what's in print, not what he's said to people faces. I'd put a lot of money on them not giving a toss what a crap small town journo thinks of them anyway though).

 

The only people he hasn't apportioned blame to is the fans, and I think they deserve a fair share.

 

I'd give him an ounce of respect if he wrote that story, but he's just like the local politicians. He's just out to be applauded and loved (and keep his job)

 

I didn't see him utter a peep while Lampitt and Cotterill were merrily going about their quality over quantity business despite it being an obvious road to oblivion. It was only when it actually came and smacked them in the face did he say a thing.

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Presumably it's the difference in the type of employment contracts that "ordinary" staff have at football clubs that normally sees them fired with no/little severance that excludes them from payment under the FCR. The players, coaching staff and executives presumably have fixed term contracts?

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The only people he hasn't apportioned blame to is the fans, and I think they deserve a fair share.

 

Vlad clearly considered that to be the case - and he'd only been there 5 minutes..

 

..Antonov told the BBC it was "simply impossible" for Portsmouth to stay within its means and "satisfy supporters' expectations".

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17132993

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should the fans accept some blame?

 

 

Mandaric - paid over the odds on wages to get the club out of the championship, promised a new stadium but knocked down one shed, abandoned ship at first opportunity - made money from pompey.

 

Child-maimer - pretended he wasn't the owner, paid crazy wages to win the cup, promised a new stadium, didn't sell enough landmines and legged it.

 

Storrie - gave out ridiculous contracts, oversaw the biggest train crash in football history, thought the Harbourdome was a good idea, approved several dodgy owners, did quite nicely thank you.

 

Al Fahim - self promoted, spouted rubbish, looked silly, achieved zero.

 

Al Faraj - failed to exist - so fairly blameless in the scheme of things.

 

Redknapp - paid out crazy wages, signed an unusually high number of players, made a fortune from pompey and abandoned them, twice.

 

Grant - was paid a huge amount to halt the decline but instead ran around the wreckage of the train crash shooting survivors, made an awful speech, dragged the club out of the big time forvever, and laid the foundations for a second relegation.

 

Cotterill - paid crazy wages, launched a suicidal transfer policy, was shown up as a poor coach, got very well paid and abandoned ship.

 

Chanrai - lent money to a desperate client, kept the patient on a life support for his own personal gain, has no interest in football let alone pompey.

 

Antonov - paid crazy wages, used 'borrowed' money to fund shortfall, did terminal cashflow damage to the business.

 

Lampitt - paid crazy wages, took crazy wages, failed to address obvious insolvency, sanctioned a suicidal transfer policy, was shown up as a VERY poor CEO, directed the club towards League One.

 

Appleton - decided to join a train crash, failed to motivate players, managed to lead one of the highest paid team's straight out of the Championship at the first attempt.

 

 

And what do these characters have in common?....

 

At one time or other they have ALL been heralded as heroes by the park-packing, plucky bestest fratton few...

 

With the spin and a vague grasp of reality these guys have all been lorded as true blue greats or club saviours, yet the majority have been quite poor in their roles, have taken a fortune out of the club, and have moved on without looking back - unless they needed more cash out of the carcass.

Legends indeed.

And that's one reason to have little sympathy with people who can't tell the difference between a relegation-loving prossie-botherer, a money-laundering crook, or a perfectly respectable businessman.

 

Appy is the only one still waiting for the actual facts to emerge, the new fixture list might be the catalyst for his status to change from hero to average coach.

 

 

if he is so good, how come we're playing Hartlepool, Crawley and Stevenage?...

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BBC Solent Sport ‏@solentsport

#pompey administrators PKF confirm that Football League have assured Pompey will start season in League One - & without points penalty

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I really don't get this.

 

So there is a real possibility that the club will be liquidated..... but the FL have assured them that they will start next year in L1 with no points penalty.

 

Well that's going to be a f*cking great achievement

 

Ok, I know, I know

 

That statement is based on the current situation where they haven't as yet exited admin, with or without a CVA, etc etc, but why are they making any statements at all? and why are media outlets publishig it likes it's a promise?

 

There is a very strong chance they wont start in L1 due to liquidation, or any other FL decision made in a meeting which is yet to occur, and there is a very strong possibility of a further penalty for failing to adhere to CVA1, or for failing to exit the current admin with a CVA..... and this is if they can convince the FL that they can even complete the season.

 

Give me strength... I need a beer

Edited by Winchester Red
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BBC Solent Sport ‏@solentsport

#pompey administrators PKF confirm that Football League have assured Pompey will start season in League One - & without points penalty

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BBC Solent Sport ‏@solentsport

To clarify statement from PKF - #pompey will start next season without further points deduction even if they are still in admin

 

..........

 

Again they are answering a question that has an answer already in the public domain (on the Football League regulations document available to everyone on their website). The Football League rules show that they wouldn't get a points penalty for remaining in admin this summer. I don't know why the BBC and Pompey News think it may have been an issue.

 

What about a penalty for diluting the failed 2010 CVA with a new 2012 CVA? Why haven't the BBC asked the Football League or PKF about that?

Edited by Matthew Le God
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BBC Solent Sport ‏@solentsport

#pompey administrators PKF confirm that Football League have assured Pompey will start season in League One - & without points penalty

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Isn't that a bit like a time traveller heading back to April 1912 and announcing to the world that the Titanic will set sail from Southampton on time...?

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BBC Solent Sport ‏@solentsport

#pompey administrators PKF confirm that Football League have assured Pompey will start season in League One - & without points penalty

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Reply Retweet Favorite

 

BBC Solent Sport ‏@solentsport

To clarify statement from PKF - #pompey will start next season without further points deduction even if they are still in admin

 

..........

 

Again they are answering a question that has an answer already in the public domain (on the Football League regulations document available to everyone on their website). The Football League rules show that they wouldn't get a points penalty for remaining in admin this summer. I don't know why the BBC and Pompey News think it may have been an issue.

 

What about a penalty for diluting the failed 2010 CVA with a new 2012 CVA? Why haven't the BBC asked the Football League or PKF about that?

 

The clarification just confuses the thick few further.

 

It should say

 

To clarify statement from PKF - pompey will start next season without a deduction if they are still in admin. If they have exited admin they may well have a penalty, and they may not start the season at all. In fact, anything could happen, other than the creditors being paid in full

 

HTH

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What about a penalty for diluting the failed 2010 CVA with a new 2012 CVA? Why haven't the BBC asked the Football League or PKF about that?

 

Because neither the FL of PKF will answer that question even if anyone with access to them has the balls to ask it. PKF would probably threaten to freeze all info to any outlet that raised the prospect out of fear of that scaring any potential buyers.

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BBC Solent Sport ‏@solentsport

#pompey administrators PKF confirm that Football League have assured Pompey will start season in League One - & without points penalty

Expand

Reply Retweet Favorite

 

BBC Solent Sport ‏@solentsport

To clarify statement from PKF - #pompey will start next season without further points deduction even if they are still in admin

 

..........

 

Again they are answering a question that has an answer already in the public domain (on the Football League regulations document available to everyone on their website). The Football League rules show that they wouldn't get a points penalty for remaining in admin this summer. I don't know why the BBC and Pompey News think it may have been an issue.

 

What about a penalty for diluting the failed 2010 CVA with a new 2012 CVA? Why haven't the BBC asked the Football League or PKF about that?

 

Because the media have short term memories and a poor grasp of context?

 

Journos are more interested in today's headlines than yesterday's facts...

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What about a penalty for diluting the failed 2010 CVA with a new 2012 CVA? Why haven't the BBC asked the Football League or PKF about that?

 

I seriously struggle how they would let this happen, it would set an incredibly dangerous precedent... AA and Chainrai could become powerful football consultants, advising clubs on how to shake off hundreds of millions of pounds of debt with minimal penalty...

 

Man Utd could go into admin knowing they can handle a little ten point deduction... AA drafts up one of his world famous CVAs full of caveats, and 18 months later repeat the process: another little ten pointer (half way through the season, easy top 4 again)... AA comes back in and melts CVA1 into CVA2, taking a billion pounds of debt and turning it into just a few dozen million!

 

They cant dish out severe punishments to clubs that fail to achieve a CVA, when clubs that achieve one a later on fail the f*cker dont get punishment at all... its exactly the same thing just doing it the pompey way is deceitful and dishonest.

 

If the FL go soft on this issue I will mount a full campaign against them and the cheats... I want them severly punished for this, if only for the cheated charities and small creditors.

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I seriously struggle how they would let this happen, it would set an incredibly dangerous precedent... AA and Chainrai could become powerful football consultants, advising clubs on how to shake off hundreds of millions of pounds of debt with minimal penalty...

 

Man Utd could go into admin knowing they can handle a little ten point deduction...

 

I agree that they can't allow this to happen without punishment. In fact, it's 9pts in the Prem and had that happened this season, Utd would still have finished 2nd - still 10pts clear of 3rd...

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Because the media have short term memories and a poor grasp of context?

 

Journos are more interested in today's headlines than yesterday's facts...

 

surely the headline is the line - they will start next season in league 1 - that was the biggest question mark surely the & without a points deduction is just gravy ( or thousand island dressing) for them

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I seriously struggle how they would let this happen, it would set an incredibly dangerous precedent... AA and Chainrai could become powerful football consultants, advising clubs on how to shake off hundreds of millions of pounds of debt with minimal penalty...

 

Man Utd could go into admin knowing they can handle a little ten point deduction... AA drafts up one of his world famous CVAs full of caveats, and 18 months later repeat the process: another little ten pointer (half way through the season, easy top 4 again)... AA comes back in and melts CVA1 into CVA2, taking a billion pounds of debt and turning it into just a few dozen million!

 

They cant dish out severe punishments to clubs that fail to achieve a CVA, when clubs that achieve one a later on fail the f*cker dont get punishment at all... its exactly the same thing just doing it the pompey way is deceitful and dishonest.

 

If the FL go soft on this issue I will mount a full campaign against them and the cheats... I want them severly punished for this, if only for the cheated charities and small creditors.

 

Why would they do that? They only need to do it once. There's no requirement to offer 20p in the pound the first time, they could do 2p (Plymouth) or even less (Palace did 0.77p). I'm actually surprised Pompey offered as much as they did that first CVA, although obviously they haven't honoured it.

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So when they finally agree a new CVA (if) then the FL will be able to say you've not abided by your originally CVA and therefore, points penalty

 

Until such a time, no points penalty can be applied. Even though TB has confirmed the old CVA is dead in the water, legally it isn't as the payment dates haven't been terminally missed (because of AA's small print) and it hasn't been superseded yet by a new CVA

 

Correct?

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What about a penalty for diluting the failed 2010 CVA with a new 2012 CVA?

 

Question to the Football League here...

 

enquiries@football-league.co.uk

 

You will get an auto reply to this saying nothing can be said until the situation becomes clear... so in the meantime what we do know is:

 

1. Just by still being in Admin, if they are not liquidated and as long as they still have their golden share their will be no addditional points penalty

2. Should they exit admin at any time without a CVA in place a further points penalty will be applied next season

3. Ambiguity still exists over the the simple fact that they have not yet paid a penny towards the 2010 CVA. If the 2010 creditors agree to the 2012 CVA then it will be argued that the 2010 CVA has NOT failed and so no further action would be possible. If the 2010 creditors do NOT agree to the new 2012 CVA then its likely that

2012 CVA will not be possible and see point 2.

4. If 2012 CVA IS approved even if 2010 CVA creditors vote against it (because Chinney holds the aces) then it could be argued that 2010 CVA has failed - BUT it all likelhood will not be classified as such by the FL as the 2012 CVA has in effect superceeded it and depsite teh 2010 creditors having been shafted again, I doubt there is a legal way in which any sanction could be imposed within the current FL rules.

 

 

Confused? Yep

FL rules ineffective and unjust? Yep

Pompey getting away with it? Yep

Public know the truth about the fact they have not paid a single penny to CVA 2010? Nope

Media highlighting this fact? Nope

FL likely to close the loophole to avoid this happening again? Yep, but likely too late to catch the TDCSBs out.....

 

That ladies and Gentleman is the grim and unjust reality IMHO.....

 

 

but i have emailed the FL to attempt further clarification....

Edited by Frank's cousin
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So when they finally agree a new CVA (if) then the FL will be able to say you've not abided by your originally CVA and therefore, points penalty

 

Until such a time, no points penalty can be applied. Even though TB has confirmed the old CVA is dead in the water, legally it isn't as the payment dates haven't been terminally missed (because of AA's small print) and it hasn't been superseded yet by a new CVA

 

Correct?

 

Yes, although your first part is open to debate which will see if the FL have the balls to say it's a penalty.

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What did you ask?

 

And what did he say?

 

FM Saints Researcher ‏@MatthewLeGod

@bigadamsport Adam, why didn't you ask Trevor Birch about the possible penalty 4 diluting of the 2010 CVA with a new CVA?

 

Adam Blackmore ‏@bigadamsport

@MatthewLeGod I don't know if the League has a penalty ruling for it -unless you are?This decision was not an exception to the FL rules

 

FM Saints Researcher ‏@MatthewLeGod

@bigadamsport The FL would be setting a dangerous precedent if it doesn't act. Otherwise clubs can offload huge debts with little punishment

 

Adam Blackmore ‏@bigadamsport

@MatthewLeGod I don't know the answer. But your point seems valid about CVA's in general

 

FM Saints Researcher ‏@MatthewLeGod

@bigadamsport Club A doesn't agree a CVA, Club B says we'll pay 20p in £ but then doesn't. Club A gets punished but club B doesn't. Seems wrong

 

FM Saints Researcher ‏@MatthewLeGod

@bigadamsport Would be interesting to hear what TB or FL thought of the subject. Will u speak to Birch again soon?

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