Pompey Takeover Saga

[pedg]

If they have to sell players and can't be sure they will be able to get people in how many can they actually lose (given a number already off at the African Cup of inconvenient timing) before they have a problem having enough players for matches? I thought I read on one of the links that they were down to about 18 players?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Another newspaper article of interest...

 

Telegraph: Portsmouth's financial crisis: 10 questions about the problems at Fratton Park

 

I found the answer to Q8 quite revealing as it shows that absolutely no stone was unturned in their quest to buy the club. All they could see was the SKY money as a quick return.

 

And borrowing to pay off borrowings? This all looks distinctly uncomfortable for Ploppy or have I missed a trick here?

[Fowllyd]

And this is the my main gripe. Just what do Portsmouth have to do get some sort of penalty? We were jumped on from a great height at the first sight of problems.

 

I honestly believe that it is Pompey's league status that is holding them together right now. For a club to fail to pay its players three times in one season is completely and utterly appalling. To owe money to other clubs, to then default on repayment plans to those clubs and to still be allowed to trade is completely and utterly appalling.

 

To think how clubs like Luton and Bournemouth have tried to play it fair and got clobbered and yet Pompey continue to lie and deceive and no one does a thing....

 

Shameful....

 

Whilst I agree with a lot of what you say, it's hardly the case that we were jumped on at the first sight of problems. We were deducted 10 points by the Football League after we went into administration, as per FL rules. Nothing more draconian than that.

 

As for Pompey, I'm coming more and more to the conclusion that the Premier League are desperately hoping that they scrape through the rest of the season, ending up in the CCC and thereby becoming the FL's problem. Whether this is the case or not, though, the PL can't actually stop Pompey from trading - that will be down to their creditors. Or indeed HMRC.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

http://www.tribalfootball.com/storrie-admits-portsmouth-player-sales-needed-554891

 

This bit is a real PMSL moment another classic from Storie teller!

The new owners have come in almost overnight and to be fair they have put a lot of money in the club. More like put a lot more debt in the club & taken out a lot more loans!

EPL want them to survive until the end of the season, & will do all they can to facilitate there demise from the premier league by the ban on player purchase/loans etc. All they're interested in is protecting the brand, but at the moment all there doing is letting Portsmouth FC make themselves & The EPL look increasingly stupid & incompetent!

 

Just about sums it up. So, come season 2010/11 the dirty work will have to be done by the FL. I wonder if MinnieHawHaw is/will still be in charge? That should be interesting.

[View From The Top]

Made me smile that they think borrowing to pay off borrowing will solve the issue.

 

The simple fact is that no institution wil lend to them.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Made me smile that they think borrowing to pay off borrowing will solve the issue.

 

The simple fact is that no institution wil lend to them.

 

Unless that 'institution' has nefarious plans?

[Thedelldays]

Pompey are clearly being dragged along to the end of the season

they will go down

 

if Pompey folded today it would be a massive can of worms for everyone in the country, not just the premier league.

 

Would clubs in the league get their points back. ?

Will a team they knocked out of the cup demand to be reinstated?

 

Dragging them through till the end to the season or until admin hits is a sensible option for any club

 

we were not really shat on from a great height, we never got a single penalty until we went into admin.

[Verbal]

Apologies if this has already been posted, but here's the Guardian's report of the latest fiasco - it also quotes some of Azougy's blathering.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jan/05/portsmouth-player-wages-missed-deadline

 

And, for some extra light relief, how about this, also from today's Guardian - just scroll down to the third article in the column...

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/jan/06/west-ham-united-straumur-investors

 

Priceless. And it just keeps getting better.

 

I think it would just be unfair not to show the contents of that last link in particular. So in the honourable tradition of Saintsweb public service, here's what it says:

 

Fahim goes to Hollywood

 

Having taken English football by storm, everyone's favourite non-billionaire, "His Excellency" Sulaiman al-Fahim, is now off to Hollywood. The man whose difficult-to-locate millions sent Portsmouth sailing closer to the edge before he sold 90% of the club to the so-far-so-successful Ali al-Faraj, claims he is somehow stumping up the cash for a movie. The film will be called Road to Darfur and, drawing on all his experience from the Gulf reality-TV hit Hydra Executives, Fahim is also going to act in his creation. "I play myself, a philanthropist," said the man whom, custom demands, we must describe as having been the Alan Sugar figure in Hydra Executives. I want people to see the real me, not what people have written about me. And not what people saw in my reality TV show."

 

I think this is quite inspiring - and has made my day.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Pompey are clearly being dragged along to the end of the season

they will go down

 

if Pompey folded today it would be a massive can of worms for everyone in the country, not just the premier league.

 

Would clubs in the league get their points back. ?

Will a team they knocked out of the cup demand to be reinstated?

 

Dragging them through till the end to the season or until admin hits is a sensible option for any club

 

we were not really shat on from a great height, we never got a single penalty until we went into admin.

 

Only then because our then 'prudent and all seeing leader' couldn't time it right by a week! I still can't help but think he knew it was coming!

[saint lard]

Saint fan on Talksport,'absolutely delighted with PFC plight'

[Thedelldays]

Saint fan on Talksport,'absolutely delighted with PFC plight'

 

Lol

 

andy on the A3... Well said

[View From The Top]

Unless that 'institution' has nefarious plans?

 

More likely to be an indivdual than an institution though.

[dubai_phil]

Well, in light of the new view that somehow the PL would prefer to have them stumble through to the end of the season I have two questions.

 

1) Is it time for a how many pages will this thread get to by then sweepstake?

 

2) Under UK ambulance chasing compensation culture, can you guys back there start to claim damages for split sides, new computer keyboards/laptop/screens having repeatedly sprayed coffee/beer/Cab Sav on them after reading the latest updates?

 

I seriously think the PL have opened a whole can of compensation claim worms here

Edited 6 January, 2010 by dubai_phil
their there sorry

[Under Weststand]

Well, in light of the new view that somehow the PL would prefer to have them stumble through to the end of the season I have two questions.

 

1) Is it time for a how many pages will this thread get to by then sweepstake?

 

2) Under UK ambulance chasing compensation culture, can you guys back their start to claim damages for split sides, new computer keyboards/laptop/screens having repeatedly sprayed coffee/beer/Cab Sav on them after reading the latest updates?

 

I seriously think the PL have opened a whole can of compensation claim worms here

 

:smt044 That another claim going in for coffee on key board LOL

[Joensuu]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5g20tkeM6Cv4YCm1mJwaHvwk0mung

 

Gaydamak denies deceiving the new owners:

 

"These chaps knew what they were getting. They must have realised there is a wage bill and the tax bill to meet every month. There are no surprises."

 

(Also confirms that al Fahim bought the club for £1 (overpriced IMHO))

[pfc123]

Funny, we said exactly the same thing last year when we faced administration and Pompey fans were all over us like a rash savouring our humiliation.

 

Turnaround is fair play as they say. We're just savouring the moment...

 

Thats not fair. Not many of us who come on here were laughing believe me. I never stuck the knife in because I'm old enough to know that what happens to you today could happen to me tomorrow.

 

In fact, when most of you were crapping yourselves over the prospect of administration, I was one of the few who was telling you not to worry about it because it might be the best thing that could happen to you in the medium to long term. So far I'd say I was right about that.......

[GenevaSaint]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5g20tkeM6Cv4YCm1mJwaHvwk0mung

 

Gaydamak denies deceiving the new owners:

 

"These chaps knew what they were getting. They must have realised there is a wage bill and the tax bill to meet every month. There are no surprises."

 

(Also confirms that al Fahim bought the club for £1 (overpriced IMHO))

 

From the same article.....

 

Gaydamak told fansonline.net: "It is my opinion that they [the debts] were fully serviceable and no worse or better than any other club in the context of the Premier League. In fact, the debt ratio at Portsmouth was probably one of the lowest."

 

I'm sorry but Gaydamak you're deluded if you REALLY thought those debts were servicable. LOL

[Verbal]

Can we have a countdown to 10 January, when 'we have answers to everything' Daniel Azougy has solemnly promised to 'pay all creditors' £40 million? (Like he promised a statement from Marc Jacob ' by the end of the day' yesterday.)

 

And BTW, 10 January is a SUNDAY.

[dubai_phil]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/portsmouth/6938168/Portsmouths-plight-the-downside-of-a-decade-of-excess-in-Premier-League.html

 

Nice one in context terms

 

And a look at the list at the end raises the question - Next?

[OldNick]

that file that wasnt loaded properly last week must be massive, they havent got some dippy blonde trying to push a load of paper into the dvd player on the computer i assume

[Tamesaint]

So the question is ....

 

Have they been paid today?????

[West End Saint]

Thats not fair. Not many of us who come on here were laughing believe me. I never stuck the knife in because I'm old enough to know that what happens to you today could happen to me tomorrow.

 

In fact, when most of you were crapping yourselves over the prospect of administration, I was one of the few who was telling you not to worry about it because it might be the best thing that could happen to you in the medium to long term. So far I'd say I was right about that.......

 

Yep fair play to you pfc you do seem quite enlightened for a cod snogger whilst I am p1ssing my self laughing at your plight & hope you drop down a couple of divisions I hope the club dosent fold we need someone to hate

[Joensuu]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/portsmouth/6938168/Portsmouths-plight-the-downside-of-a-decade-of-excess-in-Premier-League.html

 

Nice one in context terms

 

And a look at the list at the end raises the question - Next?

 

So much depends on success on the pitch. Bolton and West Ham need to stay in the Premiership; Liverpool need to play in the Champions League.

 

Hull's debt is probably just about servicable in the Championship. Arsenal, Chelsea and the two Manchesters are all okay, so long as their respective sugar daddies remain interested....

[Gemmel]

Actually they could be ok. The article suggests that out of the 11 million only 3 will go to other clubs, leaving them 8 million, minus the 2 mill for wages and they have 6 mill......less the tax man which they said would be sorted early January and they still have enough for this months wages.

 

I think they will stumble through for the rest of the season and their future will be decided by relegation

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/portsmouth/article6977045.ece

[Joensuu]

Just a thought, how will Pompey be remembered in 10 years time? With Leeds now resurgent, and their finances back on track, will the phrase 'doing a Leeds' be abandoned in favour of 'doing a Pompey'?

 

Seems like a fitting epitaph...

[Verbal]

So much depends on success on the pitch. Bolton and West Ham need to stay in the Premiership; Liverpool need to play in the Champions League.

 

Hull's debt is probably just about servicable in the Championship. Arsenal, Chelsea and the two Manchesters are all okay, so long as their respective sugar daddies remain interested....

 

United's debt has actually RISEN by more than £100 million since Glazer took over. They are not in decline on the football pitch for nothing.

[FarehamRed]

Whilst I agree with a lot of what you say, it's hardly the case that we were jumped on at the first sight of problems. We were deducted 10 points by the Football League after we went into administration, as per FL rules. Nothing more draconian than that.

 

It seems strange that we had one cheque for, what, £4k (?) bounce and we were straight into admin, while PFC get away with repeatedly failed to pay £millions in wages on time, but so far have got away with it scott-free. I know nothing about high finance, but it seems strange to me. Surley they've had some cheques bounce before now?

[Gemmel]

It seems strange that we had one cheque for, what, £4k (?) bounce and we were straight into admin, while PFC get away with repeatedly failed to pay £millions in wages on time, but so far have got away with it scott-free. I know nothing about high finance, but it seems strange to me. Surley they've had some cheques bounce before now?

 

Very different situations, but ultimately we put oursleves in admin - so the Directors wouldnt become liable. The same liabilities could effect pompey directors......if they could ever find them

[ringwood]

No the way Gemmel ,I read the article is that the FA have already passed 3m to clubs, the balance will now be distributed amongst the remaining debts

 

'Portsmouth would normally be entitled to receive about £11 million — a third of the £34.75 million that they earned in TV revenue last season — but the Premier League has already diverted about £3 million to pay debts to other clubs. '

 

the next bit leads me to think that HMRC won't get their money unless its another queue at the banl time for storyteller

 

'It confirmed on Monday that it will use the balance to clear any other outstanding football debt, assuming that Portsmouth have not done so before Sunday.'

[pedg]

Actually they could be ok. The article suggests that out of the 11 million only 3 will go to other clubs, leaving them 8 million, minus the 2 mill for wages and they have 6 mill......less the tax man which they said would be sorted early January and they still have enough for this months wages.

 

I think they will stumble through for the rest of the season and their future will be decided by relegation

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/portsmouth/article6977045.ece

 

Actually it says

 

Portsmouth would normally be entitled to receive about £11 million — a third of the £34.75 million that they earned in TV revenue last season — but the Premier League has already diverted about £3 million to pay debts to other clubs.

 

It confirmed on Monday that it will use the balance to clear any other outstanding football debt, assuming that Portsmouth have not done so before Sunday.

 

So it sounds to me like 3 million had been taken off already and now they are holding on to the rest to cover other football debts (such as the money Lens are owed I guess?) unless pompey pay them first.

[Shrek]

Actually they could be ok. The article suggests that out of the 11 million only 3 will go to other clubs, leaving them 8 million, minus the 2 mill for wages and they have 6 mill......less the tax man which they said would be sorted early January and they still have enough for this months wages.

 

I think they will stumble through for the rest of the season and their future will be decided by relegation

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/portsmouth/article6977045.ece

 

I read it as £3 million has already been diverted (of the £11m) and the remaining £8m will also be diverted to cover other football debts, leaving them with nothing.

[View From The Top]

Actually they could be ok. The article suggests that out of the 11 million only 3 will go to other clubs, leaving them 8 million, minus the 2 mill for wages and they have 6 mill......less the tax man which they said would be sorted early January and they still have enough for this months wages.

 

I think they will stumble through for the rest of the season and their future will be decided by relegation

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/portsmouth/article6977045.ece

 

All of the SKY money will go to other clubs, they owe more than they are getting.

[Joensuu]

Actually they could be ok. The article suggests that out of the 11 million only 3 will go to other clubs, leaving them 8 million, minus the 2 mill for wages and they have 6 mill......less the tax man which they said would be sorted early January and they still have enough for this months wages.

 

I think they will stumble through for the rest of the season and their future will be decided by relegation

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/portsmouth/article6977045.ece

 

Read that this morning, unless they know something the rest of the media doesn't, those figures look rather odd. All the other papers are suggesting the Sky money is only 7 million (perhaps 11million before tax?), and that it will be entirely witheld as Pompey owe c. 10million to other clubs in Jan... So unless the Times have new info, rest of the media seems to think Pompey will need to find:

c. £3M Transfer fees - otherwise transfer embargo won't be lifted (so no new players)

c. £1.8M Dec wages - otherwise players could walk

c. £1.5M Jan wages (estimate after player sales) - otherwise players will walk

c. £2M for late tax repayments - otherwise club is wound up.

 

So even after the Sky money, it looks to me like they will need to find c. £8.3 million extra in January.

[Verbal]

I read it as £3 million has already been diverted (of the £11m) and the remaining £8m will also be diverted to cover other football debts, leaving them with nothing.

 

Exactly. They have Lens and a long list of agents to pay off. They will have less than nothing from that.

[dubai_phil]

Read that this morning, unless they know something the rest of the media doesn't, those figures look rather odd. All the other papers are suggesting the Sky money is only 7 million (perhaps 11million before tax?), and that it will be entirely witheld as Pompey owe c. 10million to other clubs in Jan... So unless the Times have new info, rest of the media seems to think Pompey will need to find:

c. £3M Transfer fees - otherwise transfer embargo won't be lifted (so no new players)

c. £1.8M Dec wages - otherwise players could walk

c. £1.5M Jan wages (estimate after player sales) - otherwise players will walk

c. £2M for late tax repayments - otherwise club is wound up.

 

So even after the Sky money, it looks to me like they will need to find c. £8.3 million extra in January.

 

There is one other minor point.

 

Just what EXACTLY did they use as collateral to borrow the money to pay the last few wage cheques?

 

Are we to believe that somebody gave them loans with no security?

 

Or, as I seem to recall reading back in September or October, were not some of those short term loans secured against "future tv income"?

 

I am not sure if it was Sultan Bin Trump who mentioned it or just speculation, but they DID borrow to pay the wages before.

 

perhaps this current "predicament" is nothing to do with the snow, more to do with lenders noticing that they've just been shafted.

 

Could get better, if the club gave security that wasn't theirs to give

[OldNick]

if games are postponed how will that effect their cashflow????? It may of course be postive, they wont have win bonusses (ohh) and appearance money stewards etc. The african players will return as well for the games cancelled.

[Joensuu]

United's debt has actually RISEN by more than £100 million since Glazer took over. They are not in decline on the football pitch for nothing.

 

Agreed. The football quality might be in decline, and the debts might be increasing, but so long as Glazer is about the club won't go bust. Even if Glazer looks like he's going to have to file for bankrupty, Manure's status would attract plenty of cash rich, ego manics to bail them out. They are quite possibly the biggest status symbol going....

[OldNick]

There is one other minor point.

 

Just what EXACTLY did they use as collateral to borrow the money to pay the last few wage cheques?

 

Are we to believe that somebody gave them loans with no security?

 

Or, as I seem to recall reading back in September or October, were not some of those short term loans secured against "future tv income"?

 

I am not sure if it was Sultan Bin Trump who mentioned it or just speculation, but they DID borrow to pay the wages before.

 

perhaps this current "predicament" is nothing to do with the snow, more to do with lenders noticing that they've just been shafted.

 

Could get better, if the club gave security that wasn't theirs to give

That is something that occured to me some time ago. If they have promised future tv money against loans , only for the PL to have withheld it then it will make things interesting.

[bridge too far]

Read that this morning, unless they know something the rest of the media doesn't, those figures look rather odd. All the other papers are suggesting the Sky money is only 7 million (perhaps 11million before tax?), and that it will be entirely witheld as Pompey owe c. 10million to other clubs in Jan... So unless the Times have new info, rest of the media seems to think Pompey will need to find:

c. £3M Transfer fees - otherwise transfer embargo won't be lifted (so no new players)

c. £1.8M Dec wages - otherwise players could walk

c. £1.5M Jan wages (estimate after player sales) - otherwise players will walk

c. £2M for late tax repayments - otherwise club is wound up.

 

So even after the Sky money, it looks to me like they will need to find c. £8.3 million extra in January.

 

Plus the £9m that's owed to Gaydamak at the end of the month

[Joensuu]

There is one other minor point.

 

Just what EXACTLY did they use as collateral to borrow the money to pay the last few wage cheques?

 

Are we to believe that somebody gave them loans with no security?

 

Or, as I seem to recall reading back in September or October, were not some of those short term loans secured against "future tv income"?

 

I am not sure if it was Sultan Bin Trump who mentioned it or just speculation, but they DID borrow to pay the wages before.

 

perhaps this current "predicament" is nothing to do with the snow, more to do with lenders noticing that they've just been shafted.

 

Could get better, if the club gave security that wasn't theirs to give

 

Good point! If in Sept/Oct the Janurary Sky money was used to secure a loan, but since then the Premiership have decided to withhold the cash, you could find some pretty angry debt collecters surrounding Fratton over the next few weeks. Perhaps that's why Grant is hiding in unit 1?

[Joensuu]

Plus the £9m that's owed to Gaydamak at the end of the month

 

Well, yep, but de'd have to prove it all in a court, which I can't see happening (it would drag up paperwork (might prove who really owned the club!), and take months).

 

Also his security measure of holding onto the land around the ground is a long term thorn in the side of the club. It doesn't effect their survival over the next few months. (Well, aside from scaring off potential investors).

 

I think that they will look to pay back all the others first, and leave Gaydamak to pursue them through the courts.

[ringwood]

Pompey are clearly being dragged along to the end of the season

they will go down

 

if Pompey folded today it would be a massive can of worms for everyone in the country, not just the premier league.

 

Would clubs in the league get their points back. ?

Will a team they knocked out of the cup demand to be reinstated?

 

Dragging them through till the end to the season or until admin hits is a sensible option for any club

 

we were not really shat on from a great height, we never got a single penalty until we went into admin.

 

we didn't fail to pay the wages until in admin either, and even then we manged to sell players to cover the bill, they're not in admin and still continue not to pay their way, they must be insolvent and illegally trading, lets hope someone enforces one of those outstanding CCJ's

[Verbal]

we didn't fail to pay the wages until in admin either, and even then we manged to sell players to cover the bill, they're not in admin and still continue not to pay their way, they must be insolvent and illegally trading, lets hope someone enforces one of those outstanding CCJ's

 

Yes, it's odd. There is no way that they will make it to the end of the season. Whatever the FA or PL wishes, there's the small matter of UK and EU company law.

[ringwood]

Pompey are clearly being dragged along to the end of the season

they will go down

 

if Pompey folded today it would be a massive can of worms for everyone in the country, not just the premier league.

 

Would clubs in the league get their points back. ?

Will a team they knocked out of the cup demand to be reinstated?

 

Dragging them through till the end to the season or until admin hits is a sensible option for any club

 

we were not really shat on from a great height, we never got a single penalty until we went into admin.

 

we didn't fail to pay the wages until in admin either, and even then we managed to sell players to cover the bill, they're not in admin and still continue not to pay their way, they must be insolvent and illegally trading, lets hope someone enforces one of those outstanding CCJ's

[View From The Top]

It's as if everyone is waiting for someone else to make the 1st move so they're not seen as the baddy.

[Smirking_Saint]

Have they paid up yet ?

[Gemmel]

It's as if everyone is waiting for someone else to make the 1st move so they're not seen as the baddy.

 

I think its safe to say it wont be Sacha who puts them in Admin. But how much longer he keeps bailing them out remains to be seen

[Joensuu]

I think its safe to say it wont be Sacha who puts them in Admin. But how much longer he keeps bailing them out remains to be seen

 

Exactly. If he is indeed owed what he says he is (who knows!), then he won't be the person who pulls the plug. If they go into Admin, what's left of the Pompey cake will be divided up amongst the creditors, and Gaydamak will wind up losing the most. This is why he keeps on injecting just enough cash to keep them going, if he doesn't they will collapse altogether.

[Greenridge]

Seems like Younes Kaboul is close to a £5M move to Lyon...

[Johnny Bognor]

This made me laugh this morning.....

 

 

 

Please hurry while stocks last????

 

Don't they mean, please hurry while the club lasts????

 

 

....and what is that about No VAT increase???

 

They are already in trouble with HMRC and are now not charging VAT correctly??????