CB Saint Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 You could even have a situation where Chainrai votes in favour of CVA2 on the basis that he could buy say 50% of the new structure for just under £5M. That way he still gets £3.4M from CVA2 + half the club- not ideal as he wants out, but better than land he can't sell if PFC is liquidated. You better had wish this doesn't happen. Chanrai buys 51% for 1.6m (net),immediately trousers the parachute payment as a mangement charge, because he is the majority shareholder and will be able to determin who is appointed to the board. You are back to square one and pompey fans are out of pocket to the tune of their investment - page 2000 here we come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 12:35 Comment From Bubbleboy Do you know if the club are paying taxes yet? 12:35 Neil: Since the administration began the administrators have ensured all subsequent tax bills are kept up to date with. That is part of their remit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint si Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 While I hate the money thrown at average players, how the hell is it TBH's fault he was offered a massive contract? He has every right to demand his payment under the terms of his contract. Why should he have to explain anything? Agree completely. Price the competition out the game and then complain about the salary you're paying. Same reason that I have every sympathy with Sol Campbell in pursuing them for the payments he was due! Maybe he'd have played for a decent club if OldCo hadn't been so keen to throw money at him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwsaint Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 How did they ever get into this mess in the first place? Yeah I'm a Saints supporter but I still wouldn't want to see them go out of business. It's madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfc123 Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 I'm more than happy to accept it if the Football league are too.... They have, and we've had 10 points deducted for going into administration, so as Birch has confirmed, no more points deductions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 The Taxman has advised me they miscalculated my tax and I owe them an additional £400 for this year, Can I tell them I am claiming the same leniency as they are giving the cheats. After paying all my creditors, Water, council tax gas I will only have to pay £3.64 like darlington thinking the same thing about the £120 i owe them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 They have, and we've had 10 points deducted for going into administration, so as Birch has confirmed, no more points deductions... It is two separate misdemeanors though, can you understand that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COMEONYOUREDS Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 They have, and we've had 10 points deducted for going into administration, so as Birch has confirmed, no more points deductions... .... yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifelongsaint83 Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 They have, and we've had 10 points deducted for going into administration, so as Birch has confirmed, no more points deductions... Well that depends....There might well be more deductions, time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 12:49 Comment From Rusty I saw your comment on CVA1 that is now dead. It seems strange that trhe club will not get any more points deducted as if a club does not agree one it's a points penalty. Has that been confirmed by the Football League? 12:50 Neil: Trevor Birch has confirmed there will be no more points deductions. This has been reached following talks with the Football League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 According to the news chat, Chanrai and CVA could not afford the CVA so therefore they never had any intention of paying it in the first place. What a bunch of utter utter crooks. Unbelievable that they managed to con a judge in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Well PFC123 If your right and CVA1 is dead and now you claim to be moving to CVA2 what happens if that becomes a none starter do you have option 3 CVA 3 ready to roll out. ? You are really one deluded soul . Be honest and admit your club are nothing but a bunch of cheating scum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 12:49 Comment From Rusty I saw your comment on CVA1 that is now dead. It seems strange that trhe club will not get any more points deducted as if a club does not agree one it's a points penalty. Has that been confirmed by the Football League? 12:50 Neil: Trevor Birch has confirmed there will be no more points deductions. This has been reached following talks with the Football League. It is our responsibility to press the FL about this as well as contacting journalists to highlight the scandal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 It is two separate misdemeanors though, can you understand that? It would seem not. It is all a bit complicated though so don't be too harsh on the poor little petal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfc123 Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 12:49 Comment From Rusty I saw your comment on CVA1 that is now dead. It seems strange that trhe club will not get any more points deducted as if a club does not agree one it's a points penalty. Has that been confirmed by the Football League? 12:50 Neil: Trevor Birch has confirmed there will be no more points deductions. This has been reached following talks with the Football League. Told you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 12:49 Comment From Rusty I saw your comment on CVA1 that is now dead. It seems strange that trhe club will not get any more points deducted as if a club does not agree one it's a points penalty. Has that been confirmed by the Football League? 12:50 Neil: Trevor Birch has confirmed there will be no more points deductions. This has been reached following talks with the Football League. So, according to the intellectual might of the Football League: Coming out of administration without a CVA = naughty (extra points penalty) Whereas... Coming out of administration with a CVA which you then later scrap = perfectly fine (no extra points penalty) I really do give up. Sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Told you... Until I see it confirmed by the FL themselves, I will still believe in their integrity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Whilst e are desperate to try and find a way in which Portsmouth are punished appropriately, given the scale of their misdemeanors and blatently obvious advnatages that the 'system' has afforded them, the fact remains that acccording to the competition rules its seems something likes this: 1. First admin under prem league rules - max penalty 9point deduction - Confirmed 2. On exiting first admin with a CVA IN PLACE no further points deduction 3. Second admin under FL rules, Max penalty -10 applied - Confirmed 4. The orginal CVA is now classified as a creditor, rather than a CVA - NO possible FL rule to introduce a further points deductuion (which is what Birch is banging on about) 5. the only way an additional points deduction will occur under FL rules is if they exist admin WITHOUT CVA2 in place (possibly betwen -10 and -15 applied next season) - the big questionmark for them is whether given the make up and voting of the creditors now, whether they will agree to a CVA at a level that could be realistcally paid, given whatever new ownership structure thay have in place, and the somewhat difficult issue of CVA1 creditors agreeing to a further dilution to around 4p in the pound of the original debt... so BIrch is misleading tehm a little if he saying no further points deductions - this only refers to the issue with the existing CVA, not the new probs if they cant agree a second... So whilst I think we all agree that morally, its completely wrong that they can do this, the rules is the rules and they have exploited that. How their fans can be 'at peace' with knowing whats they have in effect been able to do and who they have been able to rip off to such an extent is a mystery to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COMEONYOUREDS Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Is it significant that Trevor Birch is no longer the administrator? He keeps calling himself that, but we know his name was removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 So, if £9.42M is spread over five years, regular payments could be structured as something like £1.884M per annum. With £16M in parachute money still to come in, which we WILL get, and several player contracts ending in June to reduce the wage bill further, we could be running at break even from day one. 1. At least £10m of the parachute payments will go immediately to football creditors. Birch has confirmed this. That figure is raising with each deferred payment (or % thereof). 2. Only 3 players' contracts expire in June: Benjani, Rocha and Ashdown - your ONLY 'keeper. All the BIG money earners will still be around: TBH, Kitson, Lawrence, et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COMEONYOUREDS Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Neil: Sorry if any Southampton fans on the wind-up are getting through, it's difficult to pick them out! and then: Comment From PTS1202 PTS1202 : ] I just hope this takeover saga ends in the summer with an owner, I think the fans one is the most viable but tbh I'd take anyone. Probably even Chainrai if it meant the club still existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Neil: Sorry if any Southampton fans on the wind-up are getting through, it's difficult to pick them out! And then the next comment is Comment From PTS1202 I just hope this takeover saga ends in the summer with an owner, I think the fans one is the most viable but tbh I'd take anyone. Probably even Chainrai if it meant the club still existed. That one slipped through the net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Is it significant that Trevor Birch is no longer the administrator? He keeps calling himself that, but we know his name was removed I meant to mention yesterday that they re-issued the appointment of administrators notice last week and re -added Birch to the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COMEONYOUREDS Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 I meant to mention yesterday that they re-issued the appointment of administrators notice last week and re -added Birch to the list. ah right cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Comment From Rusty I can see the trust coming up with a deal whereby Chanrai owns the ground and the club rent it over a long period if the £8m isn't reached... there are options for the total figure is not realised! Yeh! and be responsible for all the improvements required!! that's a goer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfc123 Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 It is our responsibility to press the FL about this as well as contacting journalists to highlight the scandal. Go for it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 1. First admin under prem league rules - max penalty 9point deduction - Confirmed 2. On exiting first admin with a CVA IN PLACE no further points deduction 3. Second admin under FL rules, Max penalty -10 applied - Confirmed 4. The orginal CVA is now classified as a creditor, rather than a CVA - NO possible FL rule to introduce a further points deductuion (which is what Birch is banging on about) 5. the only way an additional points deduction will occur under FL rules is if they exist admin WITHOUT CVA2 in place (possibly betwen -10 and -15 applied next season) - the big questionmark for them is whether given the make up and voting of the creditors now, whether they will agree to a CVA at a level that could be realistcally paid, given whatever new ownership structure thay have in place, and the somewhat difficult issue of CVA1 creditors agreeing to a further dilution to around 4p in the pound of the original debt... so BIrch is misleading tehm a little if he saying no further points deductions - this only refers to the issue with the existing CVA, not the new probs if they cant agree a second... Except the Football League can apply and vary their own rules at their ultimate discretion where they feel appropriate. I would imagine they never envisaged that a club who had been so royally ****ed would carry on where they left off having (somehow) managed to get a CVA agreed and then make no attempt to pay any of that money back. Just like they never envisaged that a football club would put their parent company into administration rather than the football club in an attempt to avoid the statutory 10-point deduction. It's a logical assumption that the creditors of the old Portsmouth FC wouldn't have agreed to a CVA comprising a total payout of 0p in the pound, which is now what they're likely to receive. If they'd attempted to exit administration on those terms two years ago, they'd have been hit with at least another 15-point deduction, so why should that not apply retrospectively? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Comment From Salford Jonny Neil, do you reckon we might have to settle for the playoffs this season? Big lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Except the Football League can apply and vary their own rules at their ultimate discretion where they feel appropriate. I would imagine they never envisaged that a club who had been so royally ****ed would carry on where they left off having (somehow) managed to get a CVA agreed and then make no attempt to pay any of that money back. Just like they never envisaged that a football club would put their parent company into administration rather than the football club in an attempt to avoid the statutory 10-point deduction. It's a logical assumption that the creditors of the old Portsmouth FC wouldn't have agreed to a CVA comprising a total payout of 0p in the pound, which is now what they're likely to receive. If they'd attempted to exit administration on those terms two years ago, they'd have been hit with at least another 15-point deduction, so why should that not apply retrospectively? Steve, just my thoughts on this, I suspect they will be punished, if the FL can't hit them with a further point deduction, I think they will ask them to drop down two leagues, or face having their golden share withheld. I can dream, can't I !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Comment From Phil OMac I hear Maquire will be with us for the rest of the season. He looks a great prospect with two feet. Any chance we could sign him in the summer? A Man City hot prospect, lol, of course you can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Steve, just my thoughts on this, I suspect they will be punished, if the FL can't hit them with a further point deduction, I think they will ask them to drop down two leagues, or face having their golden share withheld. The Golden Share is the be-all and end-all as far as Football League clubs are concerned - without it, you can't start the season, so it's possible that the FL could basically blackmail them into accepting a points deduction at the start of next season in exchange for the share (if they can get that far), after all that's essentially what they did with us and Leeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Comment From Mike Hall Every one get involved with the Pompey Supporters Trust. You can take out a credit deal/loan to pay for your share. Interest only 9.4%! Love it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifelongsaint83 Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Comment From Phil OMac I hear Maquire will be with us for the rest of the season. He looks a great prospect with two feet. Any chance we could sign him in the summer? A Man City hot prospect, lol, of course you can! Maguire is from Derby County Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Maguire is from Derby County My error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Comment From Mike Hall Every one get involved with the Pompey Supporters Trust. You can take out a credit deal/loan to pay for your share. Interest only 9.4%! Love it Where do I sign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COMEONYOUREDS Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Go for it..... are you going to be this smug in august? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Comment From Phil OMac I hear Maquire will be with us for the rest of the season. He looks a great prospect with two feet. Any chance we could sign him in the summer? A Man City hot prospect, lol, of course you can! Derby player, a bit of a trouble maker I heard, the same for his previous club in Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 If they get CVA2 through by blowing off CVA1 you can guarantee a points deduction IMO. The FL wont do anything at the moment because in theory they could still be brought out of admin by a Leibherr type and have the debts paid off in full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 They have, and we've had 10 points deducted for going into administration, so as Birch has confirmed, no more points deductions... Unless of course, there was something flawed with the first CVA process. TB has said as much when he has questioned Chanrai's debt/security. So if something was "fundamentally" flawed in CVA1 that COULD make it invalid (nowt to do with it being scrapped) then retrospectively, the CVA1 could become null and void, which COULD mean that PCFC exited an admin without a CVA. Of course for that to happen it would require a party to make a challenge - either to Chanrai's debt security or a CVA1 creditor who believes that they could pursue claims for losses... To challenge Chanrai's hold to allow the trust full title to everything could open the whole can of worms It could mean some squeaky bums out there Just speculating out loud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Except the Football League can apply and vary their own rules at their ultimate discretion where they feel appropriate. I would imagine they never envisaged that a club who had been so royally ****ed would carry on where they left off having (somehow) managed to get a CVA agreed and then make no attempt to pay any of that money back. Just like they never envisaged that a football club would put their parent company into administration rather than the football club in an attempt to avoid the statutory 10-point deduction. It's a logical assumption that the creditors of the old Portsmouth FC wouldn't have agreed to a CVA comprising a total payout of 0p in the pound, which is now what they're likely to receive. If they'd attempted to exit administration on those terms two years ago, they'd have been hit with at least another 15-point deduction, so why should that not apply retrospectively? ^ This As you say, they didn't hesitate to adjust their rules when Rupert tried to bend their rules with the parent company malarkey.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 [TABLE] [TR] [TD=class: chatmsgtime, bgcolor: #F6F6F6]13:27[/TD] [TD=class: chatmsgtext viewer_text, bgcolor: #FFFFFF][TABLE=width: 100%] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD][Comment From PFC123 : ] It dosent sit well with me that we have shafted CVA creditors once, and will do it twice now... avoiding points deductions sets a precedent to all other clubs to ditch their debt and copy us. £130 - £0 in 2 years with no punishment[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [TABLE] [TR] [TD=class: chatmsgtime, bgcolor: #F6F6F6]13:28[/TD] [TD=class: chatmsgtext altcaster_text, bgcolor: #FFFFFF][TABLE] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]Neil: Good point. Let's face it, though, there has never been any punishment for those who have destroyed the club. They can continue to work if they wanted without any consequence. Yet it is the fans, club staff and local business who continue to suffer.[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Comment From PFC123 It dosent sit well with me that we have shafted CVA creditors once, and will do it twice now... avoiding points deductions sets a precedent to all other clubs to ditch their debt and copy us. £130 - £0 in 2 years with no punishment LOL Damn you Trousers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Comment From PFC123 It dosent sit well with me that we have shafted CVA creditors once, and will do it twice now... avoiding points deductions sets a precedent to all other clubs to ditch their debt and copy us. £130 - £0 in 2 years with no punishment :lol::lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 How can birch have agreed anything about a points deduction, when he hasn't even created the new CVA. I would have thought that asking for people to invest everything should be considered. Imagining investing in something to find its hamstrung from the start. I could be wrong, but I simply can't see a case where they won't be penalised for the failed CVA. The state of football finances and the football creditors rule under threat, if the FL stand back and do nothing, it is literally inviting clubs to go into admin, ditch the debt, and instead of keeping to their promises and obligations, go and spunk that money on trying to ge a better squad (Which is exactly what pompey have done) and they announce they cant pay up. Before pfc123 gets all excited about what birch and allen have said, take a trawl back through some previous administrators claims.... The only scenario that could possibly work without a deduction is if 100% of the onginal creditors agree to the new one. From memory, the CVA as passed at 78%, so if 4% of the old CVA, vote against the new one.......Oh I don't know, but they will be punished, not least for not getting a new CVA this time round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 [TABLE] [TR] [TD=class: chatmsgtime, bgcolor: #F6F6F6]13:28 [/TD] [TD=class: chatmsgtext viewer_text, bgcolor: #FFFFFF][TABLE=width: 100%] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD][Comment From jkimbell jkimbell : ] I am speaking to the club about potentially helping them use GroupOn to distribute tickets at rock bottom prices [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Unless of course, there was something flawed with the first CVA process. TB has said as much when he has questioned Chanrai's debt/security. So if something was "fundamentally" flawed in CVA1 that COULD make it invalid (nowt to do with it being scrapped) then retrospectively, the CVA1 could become null and void, which COULD mean that PCFC exited an admin without a CVA. Of course for that to happen it would require a party to make a challenge - either to Chanrai's debt security or a CVA1 creditor who believes that they could pursue claims for losses... To challenge Chanrai's hold to allow the trust full title to everything could open the whole can of worms It could mean some squeaky bums out there Just speculating out loud As per Leeds.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 [TABLE] [TR] [TD=class: chatmsgtime, bgcolor: #F6F6F6]13:28 [/TD] [TD=class: chatmsgtext viewer_text, bgcolor: #FFFFFF][TABLE=width: 100%] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD][Comment From jkimbell jkimbell : ] I am speaking to the club about potentially helping them use GroupOn to distribute tickets at rock bottom prices [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] How appropriate: http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/31/why-groupon-is-poised-for-collapse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Comment From Toyman Steve I think TB deserves a lot of credit, I think his actions with ticket prices and getting rid of high earners have stopped us from being toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 Comment From Toyman Steve I think TB deserves a lot of credit, I think his actions with ticket prices and getting rid of high earners have stopped us from being toast. Fantastic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 April, 2012 Share Posted 4 April, 2012 ah right cheers I still reckon there was a good reason why they've chopped and changed the admin announcement on a couple of occasions though.....the second time they added "trading as Portsmouth FC" to the company description....which made me wonder if Birch had a trick up his sleeve.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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