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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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NickG

NickG

Posted
Posted

so how come this "file" that prevents a payroll running can manage, after a few days, to pay the lower paid employees - but still cannot find the money to pay the players - hopefully tomorrow, still its not that they are broke, its just the file you know

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
so how come this "file" that prevents a payroll running can manage, after a few days, to pay the lower paid employees - but still cannot find the money to pay the players - hopefully tomorrow, still its not that they are broke, its just the file you know

 

he he he

 

You obviously have no IT skills or knowledge do you Nick.

 

Do you have ANY idea how hard it is to put a cobweb into a PDF file?

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L1Minus10

L1Minus10

Posted
Posted
Extract from that linked article:

 

"An indictment from the court case claims Arkadi Gaydamak and his partner, Pierre Falcone, helped to organise the sale of £450m of arms to the Angolan government between 1993 and 1998, including the landmines, 420 tanks, 150,000 shells, 12 helicopters and six warships."

 

Falcondrone Limited?

 

The double Falcon is certainly worth someone investigating.... I do hope it is proved that Arkadi Gaydemak has been the owner all along...

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Chin Strain

Chin Strain

Posted
Posted
What the fook are you on about

 

If the club go into Admin, sacha and co lose control and will have no say in how much is paid. If they don't agree the value the admimistrator accepts then they can refuse to sign the CVA which is more points deducted.

 

As for if there is 5 pence in the pound left from the wreckage (Start by deleting the word owed in your sentance) do some basic maths, approx 100 million in debt, losing money each month and future TV revenue already allocated to pay off loans etc, take off the assets (0.0001p)...... it aint pretty

 

I would be surprised if the creditors accept an offer that is less than the value of the assets, i.e. FP knocked down for development plus all players sold. Any administrator will be looking for at least that value, so approx £15m - £20m. Nobody's going to buy them at that price. They;re stuffed, assets will be liquidated and club will fold. End of.

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St Chalet

St Chalet

Posted
Posted (edited)
I would be surprised if the creditors accept an offer that is less than the value of the assets, i.e. FP knocked down for development plus all players sold. Any administrator will be looking for at least that value, so approx £15m - £20m. Nobody's going to buy them at that price. They;re stuffed, assets will be liquidated and club will fold. End of.

 

At the arse end of the biggest recession in history who the fook would even pay that for a spot of land next to a railway depot?

 

I agree. They are almost certainly gone!

 

Now, are they going relaunch as AFC Portsmouth or Pompey FC?

Edited by St Chalet
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Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
I would be surprised if the creditors accept an offer that is less than the value of the assets, i.e. FP knocked down for development plus all players sold. Any administrator will be looking for at least that value, so approx £15m - £20m. Nobody's going to buy them at that price. They;re stuffed, assets will be liquidated and club will fold. End of.

 

You make a good point. (Although I can't agree with what you think Administrastors will hold out for - We owed 24 million to Aviva and the whole deal went through for 12 Million, including Staplewood, Barclays and other debts)

The land and stadium DO have a value and I'm not sure pompey could count on the morals of those in charge, to do what is best for the club, when it could be worth a couple of mill more than the Administrators can raise.

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Chin Strain

Chin Strain

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Posted
You do realise that Gaydamak has the surrounding land of Fratton Park as security right?

No, he owns the land around FP. FP itself is subject to security against the Chainrai loan. Chainrai sued (and won) Arcadi Gaydamak for $23m this year

 

http://archive.globes.co.il/searchgl/Court%20orders%20Gaydamak%20to%20pay%20Kushnir,%20Chainrai%20$23m_h_hd_2L34nDZaqDbmnC30mDJ0mC34sBcXqRMm0.html

 

Chainrai suddenly turns up with a 'financial interest only' in Pompey.

 

Now why would he want to loan money to Pompey? Why would he be interested in the ground? Would it be a surprise if the land around the ground went to Chainrai as part of the settlement deal? Is he likely to want the football club?

 

I smell serious trouble for Pompey

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

if the worst happens the outstanding big loan will see the ground go into new hands, the child-maiming arms dealer will claim everything else, the administrator will be selling just the club name plus responsibility for the remaining debt to the taxman and clubs.

Those debts HAVE to be paid if you want to continue as a football club - so for £10M you will get the club name, no ground, no land, a handful of player contracts that no one wants PLUS the opportunity to haggle with all kinds of loan sharks who own the stuff you need.

You can rent the ground from its new owner for a few million a year so after coughing up maybe £20M you will be the proud owner of an asset-free business that can't sustain itself - a black hole.

All you have to do then is take out loans secured against the tv money for league one or two.

See, they do have a way out after all, it's called freefall.

 

 

And on the money laundering - how about this for an idea? The arms dealer gets the club to take out loans all over the show, he takes that new cash to get his money back, the company then crashes and defaults on the loans, he's paid up thank you very much, and it's someone else's problem.

But that would be trading illegally I hear the experts cry - mmmm, but has that worried them thus far?

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Chin Strain

Chin Strain

Posted
Posted
You make a good point. (Although I can't agree with what you think Administrastors will hold out for - We owed 24 million to Aviva and the whole deal went through for 12 Million, including Staplewood, Barclays and other debts)

The land and stadium DO have a value and I'm not sure pompey could count on the morals of those in charge, to do what is best for the club, when it could be worth a couple of mill more than the Administrators can raise.

 

Their playing staff is worth considerably more than ours - Boateng and Kaboul are worth a fair amount, as is Belhadj. Granted that some of that will go to other clubs, but they'll also be entitled to Sky money (albeit parachute payments). The ground is probably worth around £5m (we got that for the Dell 9 years ago).

 

As or us, the stadium was a white elephant for Norwich Union. As soon as we went under they were left with a plot of land in a poor part of town, with a stadium on it that nobody would ever use. Without a football club the stadium is effectively worthless (makes you wonder why anyone would lend for a football stadium...), apart from the land it sits on. Staplewood is probably worth around £5m, plus the worth of any players - Llalana was probably the only one worth anything at around £1m. Bear in mind that McGolderick and Surman (I think) were sold whilst in admin. £13m was probably about right. Bet Norwich Union were stoked that Barclays pulled the plug on their £4m facility and cost NU around £20m!

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Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
Their playing staff is worth considerably more than ours - Boateng and Kaboul are worth a fair amount, as is Belhadj. Granted that some of that will go to other clubs, but they'll also be entitled to Sky money (albeit parachute payments). The ground is probably worth around £5m (we got that for the Dell 9 years ago).

 

As or us, the stadium was a white elephant for Norwich Union. As soon as we went under they were left with a plot of land in a poor part of town, with a stadium on it that nobody would ever use. Without a football club the stadium is effectively worthless (makes you wonder why anyone would lend for a football stadium...), apart from the land it sits on. Staplewood is probably worth around £5m, plus the worth of any players - Llalana was probably the only one worth anything at around £1m. Bear in mind that McGolderick and Surman (I think) were sold whilst in admin. £13m was probably about right. Bet Norwich Union were stoked that Barclays pulled the plug on their £4m facility and cost NU around £20m!

 

Yep sorry, missed your bit to include all the players.

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PES

PES

Posted
Posted
Love the statistics, What number are Saints on this list?

 

Except that Pompey haven't really won that many trophies, if we look at actual things won, then where would Pompey be counted? This list is the total number of titles won (League Championships, FA Cup, League Cup, Champions League, Cup Winners Cup, Fairs/UEFA Cup and Club World Cup.

 

1) Liverpool 40

2) Manchester United 37

3) Arsenal 27

4) Aston Villa 20

5) Tottenham Hotspur 17

6) Everton 15

7) Chelsea 14

8) Newcastle United 11

9) Blackburn Rovers 10

10) Wolverhampton Wanderers 9

11) Manchester City 9

12) Nottingham Forest 9

13) Sunderland 8

14) Sheffield Wednesday 8

15) Leeds United 7

16) West Bromwich Albion 7

17) Wanderers 5

18) Sheffield United 5

19) West Ham United 5

 

Huddersfield Town 4

Portsmouth 4

Preston North End 4

Burnley 4

Bolton Wanderers 4

 

So, if you actually look at trophies won, Pompey are in a 5 way tie for 20th place. How do you make them Premier? But even your best argument doesn't wash - would Wanderers deserve a place in the Premier League based on 5 FA Cup wins when they haven't existed for over 120 years?

 

Sorry if you felt i'd brushed off any debate on this Yeovil, I returned to work today so have had less time to dedicate to Pompey on a Saints messageboard (Perverse innit!) and so kinda skimmed through the posts.:D

We'll I guess we're borderline Premiership, but technically as there are 20 places and we're tired for the last spot we at least are in a position to draw straws for the final premier league spot!

I don't actually like where this has ended up going, i've ended up sounding like a 'Premierised' whore!

My whole point originaly was to set a criteria where Portsmouth were a 'Bigger' club than Saints. truth be told, I REALLY dont care who's BIGGER, BIGGER is for little boy's comparing willy sizes. By 'major' trophy count Pompey have a 4:1 superiority over Saints 400% more successful. I've happily agreed Saints are a better supported club than Pompey, i'd estimate around 30% more fans. I really don't get why that appeals to some Saints fans? But whatever floats yer boat.

You say it doesn't wash! maybe your right. But i'll tell you what also does not wash, Southampton fans idea of Success comparisons.

Saints fans on here seem to count things like years in the top flight, head-to-head win ratio's and who's had the most 'Legends' playing for the respective clubs. All admirable achievments, yet in anyones (unbaised) book, factors to be taken into account only AFTER history of titles and trophies won, something which Pompey wins out over Saints hands down. :)

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Johnny Bognor

Johnny Bognor

Posted
Posted
Sorry if you felt i'd brushed off any debate on this Yeovil, I returned to work today so have had less time to dedicate to Pompey on a Saints messageboard (Perverse innit!) and so kinda skimmed through the posts.:D

We'll I guess we're borderline Premiership, but technically as there are 20 places and we're tired for the last spot we at least are in a position to draw straws for the final premier league spot!

I don't actually like where this has ended up going, i've ended up sounding like a 'Premierised' whore!

My whole point originaly was to set a criteria where Portsmouth were a 'Bigger' club than Saints. truth be told, I REALLY dont care who's BIGGER, BIGGER is for little boy's comparing willy sizes. By 'major' trophy count Pompey have a 4:1 superiority over Saints 400% more successful. I've happily agreed Saints are a better supported club than Pompey, i'd estimate around 30% more fans. I really don't get why that appeals to some Saints fans? But whatever floats yer boat.

You say it doesn't wash! maybe your right. But i'll tell you what also does not wash, Southampton fans idea of Success comparisons.

Saints fans on here seem to count things like years in the top flight, head-to-head win ratio's and who's had the most 'Legends' playing for the respective clubs. All admirable achievments, yet in anyones (unbaised) book, factors to be taken into account only AFTER history of titles and trophies won, something which Pompey wins out over Saints hands down. :)

 

You forgot, we make better downfall films than you do

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT_DZuT8euw

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
Well, we approached it all from a different direction i.e. we spent money we didn't have on players and you spent money you didn't have on a new ground.

 

Yes we did: we were in the PL at the time.

 

Now, long term you probably did the right thing, as to answer an awful lot of crowing posts about so called poor PFC support, you picked up around 10k extra fans by ditching The Skip for SMS. Where we've gone wrong in the long term is by not seeing that a lot of those extra 10k bums on seats are probably floating fans from outside the general Southampton area who want to see good football in a top quality environment.

 

If we'd found the finance to build a new ground as well as getting into the Premiership we would have picked off a lot of those floating fans who just want more for their money. Fair enough, you can't blame them for that.

 

As for being screwed for generations, I don't think so. IF the club goes into administration, you know from your own experience that thats when the business world becomes interested again, because in most cases nearly all the debt is wiped out.

 

We'll come back, one way or another........

 

So, do you still think you'll be above us 3 years from now? :D

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=408850&postcount=110

 

Originally Posted by Dark Munster viewpost.gif

Perhaps it's best to rephrase the question as I did to pfc123 (I've added stadium):

 

Suppose someone were to give you the offer for P*mp*y and Saints to switch positions 3 years from now (owner, league position, facilities and debts). (Your decision of course must be made now, not 3 years from now.) Would you take the offer?

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/sho...&postcount=260

 

No, because there's a good chance that we'll still be in a higher league than you...
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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
No, he owns the land around FP. FP itself is subject to security against the Chainrai loan. Chainrai sued (and won) Arcadi Gaydamak for $23m this year

 

http://archive.globes.co.il/searchgl/Court%20orders%20Gaydamak%20to%20pay%20Kushnir,%20Chainrai%20$23m_h_hd_2L34nDZaqDbmnC30mDJ0mC34sBcXqRMm0.html

 

Chainrai suddenly turns up with a 'financial interest only' in Pompey.

 

Now why would he want to loan money to Pompey? Why would he be interested in the ground? Would it be a surprise if the land around the ground went to Chainrai as part of the settlement deal? Is he likely to want the football club?

 

I smell serious trouble for Pompey

 

That's what I said...

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for_heaven's_Saint

for_heaven's_Saint

Posted
Posted
Do I remember reading that Pompey took loans out secured against future TV money? If the prem refuse to pay it to them are they screwed?

 

That's what I thought too. I'm sure they've been securing loans against this payment for ages. It was inevitable that they wouldn't be able to pay somebody, just seems the FA have made the decision for them.

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Eastcowzer

Eastcowzer

Posted
Posted
Laughable!!!......as a Vectonion myself, I had the choice as a child, across to Southampton on the red funnel, or a trip to Fishbourne, and over to SKatesmouth. I chose right, alas, many of my fellow Vectonians chose wrong. Am I the lucky one;)

 

Hi Gingletiss. Just as a matter of political correctness, people from the IoW are known as Vectensians, not Vectonions, and yes there are more than enough Skate supporters on Vectis but a lot of them are becoming 'ex' now.

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Chin Strain

Chin Strain

Posted
Posted (edited)
That's what I said...

 

Sorry, thought you said he had the land as security. Chainrai has the ground as security, but it's not his until the club default on the loan payment. Gaydamak owns the land around FP, so it's not security.

Edited by Chin Strain
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Joensuu

Joensuu

Posted
Posted

It's payday, three strikes and they're out. If Chainrai (or Gayd... I mean al Mirage) coughs up some wages I'd imagine it'll be reported before 10... If we've heard nothing by lunch, you can bet there will be agents and lawyers swarming around Skatesville. Pass me the popcorn, I do hope today's pantomime doesn't let us down....

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
Sorry, thought you said he had the land as security. Chainrai has the ground as security, but it's not his until the club default on the loan payment. Gaydamak owns the land around FP, so it's not security.

 

Well yeah but Gaydamak has said he will give the club back the land once he is given what he is owed. The funny thing is that they dispute how much they owe so it's unlikely they will pay him what he wants so they will never be able to expand the ground!

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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

Posted
Posted
Huh?

 

Portsmouth train at eastliegh yeah?

 

And the PFA, whose job it is to reepresent the interestd of professional footballers (like a union) have arrived there this morning.

 

I assume that means they have come to discuss what happens when they don't get paid today.

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Under Weststand

Under Weststand

Posted
Posted
The PFA have arrived at their Eastleigh training ground ;-)

Sounds like their ready to issue the mandatory 14-day notice of termination of contract, IF wages not paid. Surely if done by Bank transfer the money should have cleared into their bank accounts at midnight(unless a file is jammed again :rolleyes: ). I know my wages clear at midnight on Wednesday. So they should know by now if they've been paid.

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Faz

Faz

Posted
Posted
So the 10% of Pompey's debts for which he is liable are being offloaded to the supporters. Brilliant!

 

Yep, there are queues at all the Banks in Skatesville this morning as the supporters aim to take out short term loans to pay the players. It's a plan. If 32 take out a loan of £10000 each they can pay Utaka this month........ nah, not happening is it???

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