Jump to content

Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
in Golden Posts

 Share

Recommended Posts

Brizzie Saints

Brizzie Saints

Posted
Posted
Who cares. As Tatu once said: It's all about us.

 

Yep, all I really care about is our fate, if they survive oh well, if they dont....Bonus but there doesn't seem any point getting all anxious about their demise, even tho they do deserve it.

Wot goes around comes around, one day they will have to pay the piper.

 

Till then as Red Army 1 would say: " WE ARE SOUTHAMPTON, WE RULE THE SOUTH, TOGHETHER AS ONE"

Link to comment
Share on other sites
pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted

So is it the 1st of April when the first CVA payment is due? Though at the moment it appears they have no intention of paying they have not yet missed a payment and it could well be that that would trigger another points penalty.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Winchester Red

Winchester Red

Posted
Posted (edited)

Calm down people

 

If the first CVA fails then they have to get a points deduction and they won't get a CVA this time either, HMRC are Baker Tilley will see to that so there will be a second deduction for that.

 

Whichever division they're in next season they'll be starting on a minus number.

 

And didn't TB say he still needed to reduce the wage bill from £13m to £6m yet. He's got 36 hours!

Edited by Winchester Red
Link to comment
Share on other sites
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
Calm down people

 

If the first CVA fails then they have to get a points deduction

 

I agree that logic should dictate such an eventuality, but, as far as I've ever been able to deduce, the Football League have a points deduction rule for exiting administration without an agreed CVA but they don't appear to have a rule that covers the eventuality that said CVA is never honoured.

 

If there's a loophole there to be exploited don't be surprised if Pompey do exactly that.

 

Unless someone can show me in black and white the Football League rule that covers an unpaid CVA?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
I agree that logic should dictate such an eventuality, but, as far as I've ever been able to deduce, the Football League have a points deduction rule for exiting administration without an agreed CVA but they don't appear to have a rule that covers the eventuality that said CVA is never honoured.

 

If there's a loophole there to be exploited don't be surprised if Pompey do exactly that.

 

Unless someone can show me in black and white the Football League rule that covers an unpaid CVA?

 

One would assume they would be subject to the same sort of "spirit of the rules" logic that got us a points deduction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guy

Guy

Posted
Posted

If we get promoted, I wouldn't mind if Pompey do manage to avoid relegation, it just means they are more likely to lose every week in the Championship than in League1, prolonging the entertainment for another year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
It's be huge news. Is it a fake article? Seems likely as how can you to from needing to slash wages and pay off huge debts to 'we're safe' in 24 hours.

 

No administrator would say such things without a completed bid it'd be irresponsible. I know we should focus on us, and I don't mind their results so much it's just the debt situation that bothers we. So long as they're not allowed to ignore all CVAs and write it off. Just that's exactly what birch stated 'debt free'.

 

To be fair, he said they could be debt free once someone buys them - in exactly the same way that we were when Marcus bought us.

 

However, that would necessitate them having a buyer with the cash up front to pay off all the debts, not impossible, but not likely...

 

I would also dispute what would constitute 'bargain basement' in his statement. Compared to say Man Utd or Chelsea, the £50m or so needed to buy the skates and clear the debts could be considered bargain basement. However, it would also buy a bargain basement club in the truest sense of the phrase....

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Joensuu

Joensuu

Posted
Posted

On a different line of thought, but as the first payment of the first CVA is due in about a fortnight, I thought I'd check out the repercussions for not paying. As far as I can see, the only thing that might happen is the creditors might try to force the company to stop trading. In this case, am I right in thinking that Baloo and Gaydamak junior will again prevent HMRC from getting justice for us taxpayers? I was hoping that the law might have some more tangible repercussions.

 

http://www.beatmydebt.com/news-articles/What-happens-if-I-cannot-pay-my-company-voluntary-arrangement.htm

 

"If a company starts a CVA and then fails to maintain the agreed repayment plan, the ultimate remedy for the creditors is that it will be forced to stop trading and closed. It is therefore very important for directors not to agree to a CVA unless they believe that the required payments can be met."

 

"Very often creditors will agree to reducing payments still further if the alternative is no return at all. This is especially the case if there is an opportunity that payments will be increased again once trading improves.

 

However, if trading conditions become so bad that the company can no longer continue to make acceptable payments into its CVA, then it is likely that the creditors will agree that the company should be closed."

Link to comment
Share on other sites
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
Am I missing a post somewhere? What's Birch supposed to have said?

 

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1038218/trevor-birch:-concerns-over-portsmouth-future-'over'?cc=5739

 

Birch: Portsmouth will be safe

 

March 20, 2012

By Harry Harris, Football Correspondent

 

Trevor Birch has revealed to ESPNsoccernet, on the eve of Portsmouth's match with Birmingham, that the stricken club will be saved and that they are now in position to announce that they can fulfil their fixtures for the rest of the season.

The club's administrator publicly expressed his fears the club was in such a bad financial state that they might not survive the season, but now he is far more optimistic and said there was no need to worry anymore.

 

"The Football League were holding onto some cash, but we have persuaded them to release it to club based on how we are dealing with the football creditors," Birch told ESPNsoccernet.

"The sum is around £200,000 a month, and together with moving a couple of players on loan we have eased the cash flow considerably.

 

"This is a special club, a great club and you have to experience the atmosphere with the crowd to appreciate it. This club is worth saving and I am talking to three or four prospective new buyers.

"Someone will take it on free of debt so its bargain basement, someone will come in to ensure it survives while we work on ensuring a reduction in trading costs for next years. Any concerns about the club's future are now over."

Link to comment
Share on other sites
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
This Birch quote was on ESPN apparently!

 

From the comments section on the printed article:

 

Herbert-Chapman

If Portsmouth was a person, he would love to have a short trip to Switzerland.

 

bentnup

I hear Bates' has offered a quid for the club !

 

usethi233

This is good news.

Unfortunately the bad news is this article was written by Harry Harris.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
sussexsaint

sussexsaint

Posted
Posted
http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/557359137?-11209

 

Now today birch has said pompey council could still buy fratton park

 

As per my post above , if the wording of the ESPN report was true then the headline in 'The News' today would be that and not anything related to the council possibly buying the ground at some distant time in the future

 

'don't worry the future of the club is safe' is a headline they have been after for years

Link to comment
Share on other sites
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/557359137?-11209

 

Now today birch has said pompey council could still buy fratton park

 

In an email to the council’s chief executive, David Williams, Pompey’s administrator warned that separating the club and its ground would make any potential sale more difficult.

 

He said: ‘The council asked for my thoughts on the motion and I responded by saying that selling Fratton Park separately at this stage could possibly hinder our discussions with potential buyers.

 

‘We need to keep our options open and, for the moment, that means offering bidders the opportunity to acquire the ground together with the club’s other assets.

 

‘The club is likely to be worth more if it’s sold in its entirety rather than split up.

 

So, Birch reckons the club will be easier to sell with Chainrai's charge hanging over the ground than if it were owned by a benevolent council?

 

Hmmm, interesting logic....

Edited by trousers
Link to comment
Share on other sites
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
On a different line of thought, but as the first payment of the first CVA is due in about a fortnight, I thought I'd check out the repercussions for not paying. As far as I can see, the only thing that might happen is the creditors might try to force the company to stop trading. In this case, am I right in thinking that Baloo and Gaydamak junior will again prevent HMRC from getting justice for us taxpayers? I was hoping that the law might have some more tangible repercussions.

 

http://www.beatmydebt.com/news-articles/What-happens-if-I-cannot-pay-my-company-voluntary-arrangement.htm

 

"If a company starts a CVA and then fails to maintain the agreed repayment plan, the ultimate remedy for the creditors is that it will be forced to stop trading and closed. It is therefore very important for directors not to agree to a CVA unless they believe that the required payments can be met."

 

"Very often creditors will agree to reducing payments still further if the alternative is no return at all. This is especially the case if there is an opportunity that payments will be increased again once trading improves.

 

However, if trading conditions become so bad that the company can no longer continue to make acceptable payments into its CVA, then it is likely that the creditors will agree that the company should be closed."

 

All very well, but hasn't "the company" already closed....?

 

I know this is an old chestnut of a question but is there anything that legally binds the CVA of 'oldCo' to 'newCo' ???

Link to comment
Share on other sites
badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
All very well, but hasn't "the company" already closed....?

 

I know this is an old chestnut of a question but is there anything that legally binds the CVA of 'oldCo' to 'newCo' ???

 

I think there is something to do with an agreement to supply Baker Tilly with the funds in accordance with the CVA schedule.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
I think there is something to do with an agreement to supply Baker Tilly with the funds in accordance with the CVA schedule.

 

Yep, that's my recall too....but is that an AA crafted "agreement" (with the usual crafty caveats) or a legally binding agreement?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted (edited)
Yep, that's my recall too....but is that an AA crafted "agreement" (with the usual crafty caveats) or a legally binding agreement?

Not sure of the legality or how it is enforced, but this is what the CVA Completion Statement says :

 

"As detailed above PFC10 is obligated to make a contribution to the Liquidation which ensures a

dividend of 20 pence in the pound, before costs and expenses, is paid to all unsecured creditors."

 

EDIT : just found it :

"This obligation will be formalised by way of a binding sales and purchase agreement in consideration of the transfer of the business and assets to the Newco"

 

( Appendix 1 of the Completion Statement )

Edited by badgerx16
Link to comment
Share on other sites
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
Not sure of the legality or how it is enforced, but this is what the CVA Completion Statement says :

 

"As detailed above PFC10 is obligated to make a contribution to the Liquidation which ensures a

dividend of 20 pence in the pound, before costs and expenses, is paid to all unsecured creditors."

 

EDIT : just found it :

"This obligation will be formalised by way of a binding sales and purchase agreement in consideration of the transfer of the business and assets to the Newco"

 

( Appendix 1 of the Completion Statement )

 

I guess the key part of that statement is: "This obligation will be formalised" (note the future tense)

 

And, the key question is, did AA uphold the words of the oldCo CVA when newCo was formed? Is that public domain information?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
I guess the key part of that statement is: "This obligation will be formalised" (note the future tense)

 

And, the key question is, did AA uphold the words of the oldCo CVA when newCo was formed? Is that public domain information?

 

I suppose only Baker Tilly know for sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
pfc123

pfc123

Posted
Posted
Just listened to 5 live on my way to work this morning and some delude skate came on pleading for a buyer and going on about sleeping giant :lol:, best fans :lol:, etc etc........blah blah. I nearly crashed my car I was laughing so much. The real punch line was when guy said it was an attractive club because they were guarenteed 15,000 attendances every home game ......... exluding the fact their average attendance is under that figure, this guy said his punch line about 20 minutes after the game against Brum had finished - attendance 12,185 :facepalm:

 

There's just no helping some people!

 

Indeed. "guarenteed (sic) 15,000 attendances every home game..."

 

Our average this season? 14805. :facepalm:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sevvy

Sevvy

Posted
Posted
Seriously?

 

You're trying to justify that a figure that is LESS THAN 15,000 is actually 15,000.

 

Are you really that retarded?

 

Once again, proof that the figures in Portsmouth just don't add up!

 

 

I dont think he is, he is just showing the average, someone else has quoted they get 15k each week, note the famous trousers face palm

Link to comment
Share on other sites
holepuncture

holepuncture

Posted
Posted
Yep, that's my recall too....but is that an AA crafted "agreement" (with the usual crafty caveats) or a legally binding agreement?

 

Nope, just an obligation unfortunately. Birch has already said it wont be paid! 20p in the 20p of the £1 if they are lucky (the taxpayer that is).

 

Not sure of the legality or how it is enforced, but this is what the CVA Completion Statement says :

 

"As detailed above PFC10 is obligated to make a contribution to the Liquidation which ensures a

dividend of 20 pence in the pound, before costs and expenses, is paid to all unsecured creditors."

 

EDIT : just found it :

"This obligation will be formalised by way of a binding sales and purchase agreement in consideration of the transfer of the business and assets to the Newco"

 

( Appendix 1 of the Completion Statement )

 

Remember when the Russian mafia took over the cesspit? They stated the club was debt free, there was never any intention of paying the CVA. The children’s cancer charities and sub - £2.5k creditors still waiting for their handouts is rather telling.

 

All they have done is bind and obligation to pay the CVA into the terms of the sale, no legal requirement.

 

This is where HMRC and the FL come into play though, as you get a nice big points penalty.

 

If they don’t fudge through a CVA this time too, more points deducted... Chinny is key here as his votes will determine whether they can rig another CVA vote.. Chinny is in total control

 

Actually TB said

 

'The club is likely to be worth more if it’s sold in its entirety rather than split up'

 

This is not a statement solely related to the welfare of the club. Don't forget he's an Administrator trying to get as much for the Creditors as possible.

 

He is protecting the good man Chainrai, he is the largest secured creditor, with Gadymack the other secured creditor.

 

P*ss off Chinny, the skates are in big big trouble.

 

 

 

At this stage I would like to hear from some of our other favourites... when is Antonov back in court to find out if he will be extradited to face the Latvian and Lithuanian public? what is the good doctor Sulamin Al-Fahim up to these days?

 

SNN0304W-380_570777a.jpg

 

iH95NTecPyIQ.jpg

 

 

 

Indeed. "guarenteed (sic) 15,000 attendances every home game..."

 

Our average this season? 14805. :facepalm:

 

That average is below 15k although it is reasonably close. That is just an average though, supported by teams like us, West Ham and Brighton topping you up by 3k. Most of the time you are managing around 12-13k home support which is bottom NPC/out of top 6 league 1.

 

And all of that whilst peddling tickets for free, for a quid, four for £44, two for £25, and the other deals I forget... all whilst being promoted by the players, managers and supporters groups to 'pack the park'.

 

 

Still, nice to see the club behaving responsibly and promoting their youth to fill the gaps in the 1st team squad:

 

http://www.nonleaguedaily.com/news/index.php?newsmode=FULL&nid=83434

 

:facepalm:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
Be a shame if we had the title wrapped up by the last game of the season, with Cov needing 3 points to relegate the DFCSB's. West Brom anyone? Karma is a wonderful thing.

 

doubt if it would make any difference whatsoever, Saints will go into every game to win.Doubt if Nigel would tolerate any other attitude.

 

Anyway Coventry will be long down by then, as will Skates and Doncaster.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Winchester Red

Winchester Red

Posted
Posted
Still, nice to see the club behaving responsibly and promoting their youth to fill the gaps in the 1st team squad:

 

http://www.nonleaguedaily.com/news/index.php?newsmode=FULL&nid=83434

 

:facepalm:

 

What I find interesting about that article is:

 

1) The first lad has been 'wanting to return for some time'. Anyone wanting to return to a non-league team from a Championship outfit is either not enjoying themselves or has been told to find themselves a new club

 

Add that to (2) the fact that Spencer Day (Farnborough's owner/manager/dictator) says that the Bahamian international's agent approached him tells you that he also has been told to find a new club.

 

The message is definitely for anyone outside the first 16 players to f*ck off because you aren't going to get a game this season and there'll be no club next season

Link to comment
Share on other sites
suewhistle

suewhistle

Posted
Posted
Indeed. "guarenteed (sic) 15,000 attendances every home game..."

 

Our average this season? 14805. :facepalm:

 

So with 12k against Brum it looks like that average is going down, doesn't it? Shame really when every ticket sold is so vital, even at 2 for £25. I don't think there are many teams that'll bring the crowds like us, Brighton, Leeds and WH next season, although it's an academic argument really.

 

Haven't you really noticed is that what we are pointing out is the dichotomy between all the wind, fury and rhetoric of "Pack the Park" against actual real attendances. It's not even like Saints back in the 70s when any regular could tell you the crowd figures were fiction: but understated. From the appearance of the empty stands the FP crowd figures quoted are all too true.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...