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Pompey Takeover Saga


Fitzhugh Fella

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Just to note, parachute payments get reduced significantly (to about 1/4 of their value) if the club falls to League One,.

 

Really, is that true? I've never heard that before and can't think of a logical reason why that would be the case.

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Just to note, parachute payments get reduced significantly (to about 1/4 of their value) if the club falls to League One, so better for him if they stay up if he wants to get in for the payments! The fact that he isn't getting involved to help them stay up is what makes me think even Chinny's given up on saving them.

 

If this is right, and I'm not in any position to argue with you, then it's toast time isn't it??

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Just to note, parachute payments get reduced significantly (to about 1/4 of their value) if the club falls to League One, so better for him if they stay up if he wants to get in for the payments! The fact that he isn't getting involved to help them stay up is what makes me think even Chinny's given up on saving them.

 

I've never heard that before. I don't think that's true.

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I'd not heard of a reduction for a second relegation either, only TV money, not parachute....

 

Birch said there was £14M to come but about £7M-£10M was already accounted for.

This left £4M-£7M to squabble over - before they started deferring wages.

The players will have gobbled up another couple of million by May and the PL well will soon be dry.

 

Once again Gaydamak and Chanrai are going to end up like two wasted tramps ransacking a skip and trading punches in the street over a single shoe that doesn't fit either of them.

Which ironically, if properly promoted by Sky Box Office, would draw a bigger crowd than pompey v Birmingham City.

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I was fairly sure it was put in as a provision so that teams relegated twice in 4 years couldn't just outspend all of League One due to having an extra 8 or 16m...the fact that no-one else has heard of it makes me doubt myself now, apologies if mistaken - something I've accepted as fact long enough to be unable to recall where I first heard it. Sorry!

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I was fairly sure it was put in as a provision so that teams relegated twice in 4 years couldn't just outspend all of League One due to having an extra 8 or 16m...the fact that no-one else has heard of it makes me doubt myself now, apologies if mistaken - something I've accepted as fact long enough to be unable to recall where I first heard it. Sorry!

 

This would have been a significant development and I'm sure we would have heard lots about it - but nothing in the Premier League rulebook as far as I can see. Probably one of those things that was being floated around a couple years back when they were re-negotiating....and subsequently dropped.

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I was fairly sure it was put in as a provision so that teams relegated twice in 4 years couldn't just outspend all of League One due to having an extra 8 or 16m...the fact that no-one else has heard of it makes me doubt myself now, apologies if mistaken - something I've accepted as fact long enough to be unable to recall where I first heard it. Sorry!

 

No worries fella, I'm not sure it matters that much anyway...... whatever they do or don't get from pp, it's not as much as they need.

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Very interesting. C48 states that £2.3m is deducted from each payment. C49 states that VAT will be added to each payment. I wonder who will get that?

 

C93 and C95 relate to HMRC payments being in arrears.

Edited by Whitey Grandad
HMRC added
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Lot's of people say 'they won't be liquidated, course they'll be in league 1 next season'. Yet no-one ever explains HOW. It seems to be based on a 'football clubs don't get liquidated' theory. Which is odd, because some have, bigger ones will, and their situation is completely different to others who've been in trouble.

 

So again, how? Given the investment needed just to pay the debt. You'd need a fan, or fans with an absolute fortune they're prepared to lose, just to have a loss making business with no infrastructure, no team and little prospect of getting out of league 1 (except by relegation). Who is going to do this? Saints go lucky enough, yet the costs were far, far less and the assets far, far more.

 

The only way I can see them saved is it the FL help beyond all previous levels, which wouldn't go down well with other clubs. If debts are written off, no CVAs, no penalties for avoiding them. So basically setting an obscene precedent for all other clubs regarding debt. It won't happen.

 

Only question is, does 1 less team get relegated from L1, or does one extra team get promoted from L2? I'd like to see a playoff personally! Does the FL have rules for this sort of thing? Crazy if they don't, they should be prepared for a team being removed in the summer. I assume relegation clubs in L1 are asking this question??

 

The FL not having a contingency plan is par for the course for them. They'll just make up a rule as they see fit at the time. My money is for one less team to be relegated from the Championship, League 1 and League 2.

 

In other words, Cheats FC's liquidation will make the fans of 4 teams (at least) very happy. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I can count.

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I'd not heard of a reduction for a second relegation either, only TV money, not parachute....

 

Birch said there was £14M to come but about £7M-£10M was already accounted for.

This left £4M-£7M to squabble over - before they started deferring wages.

The players will have gobbled up another couple of million by May and the PL well will soon be dry.

 

Once again Gaydamak and Chanrai are going to end up like two wasted tramps ransacking a skip and trading punches in the street over a single shoe that doesn't fit either of them.

Which ironically, if properly promoted by Sky Box Office, would draw a bigger crowd than pompey v Birmingham City.

 

This why the is no risk to the players in deferring wages. The PL/FL are already deducting football debts from the payments so whatever happens in the HMRC case won't affect them - they're just sucking more life fom the corpse.

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Interesting reading, that. Maybe I'm misinterpreting the rules, but it seems to me, from clause 63.7, that ALL employees are covered bu the Football Creditors rule. Didn't I read that some of the non-playing staff weren't paid?

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Nothing was made of the fact that Pompey's council were owed money. Now i know that it is difficult for them to push the button but i suspect a lot of the people arent interested in the football club and if they realise that they will have to find a bit more council tax to offset that debt may make them more inclined to want the council to get the money in. if not Im sure the club will put the council right to the bottom of payments in future.

 

It must also be galling for a lot of PFC fans to know (they wont accept) that if Saints are successful and do get into the PL their grandchildren will become Saints fans (not all of them by a long shot, but a lot of the ones who live in the surrounding area and in time some of the city dwellers0

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I was fairly sure it was put in as a provision so that teams relegated twice in 4 years couldn't just outspend all of League One due to having an extra 8 or 16m...the fact that no-one else has heard of it makes me doubt myself now, apologies if mistaken - something I've accepted as fact long enough to be unable to recall where I first heard it. Sorry!

 

There would be no logic to such a rule, since the purpose of the parachute payments is to protect relegated clubs from financial meltdown, giving them support in paying ongoing high wages of players signed when in the PL. That applies just as much, if not more if they are relegated again to L1. It would make no sense to abandon a club when it needed the cash even more because its other sources of income went down further still.

 

Of course what is supposed to happen, is that the relegated club uses this grace period to reduce its costs as much as possible in preparation for future break-even, transferring out those high earners that it can, and signing cheaper players etc, but having some money to hang on grimly wit,h if some players insist on seeing out a lucrative contract a la Ben Haim. But as we all know the portsmouth ( and indeed west ham) model is to just spend like there is no tomorrow anyway.

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Intresting that the Varney to Forest deal has fallen through. Forest couldn't guarantee they would buy the player at the end of the season.

Which suggests that all other players that have left, have actually be sold, but can't be formailsed until the transfer window opens..... Goes some way to explaining the 700k loan fee for Henderson.

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Nothing was made of the fact that Pompey's council were owed money. Now i know that it is difficult for them to push the button but i suspect a lot of the people arent interested in the football club and if they realise that they will have to find a bit more council tax to offset that debt may make them more inclined to want the council to get the money in. if not Im sure the club will put the council right to the bottom of payments in future.

 

It must also be galling for a lot of PFC fans to know (they wont accept) that if Saints are successful and do get into the PL their grandchildren will become Saints fans (not all of them by a long shot, but a lot of the ones who live in the surrounding area and in time some of the city dwellers0

 

Bloody Hell.

 

A post from Old Nick looking at a future where "They have not got away with it" and kids play in Red & White on Southsea Common.

 

Dude, I'm coming over after reading that - I need a dose of whatever has perked you up :rolleyes:

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Intresting that the Varney to Forest deal has fallen through. Forest couldn't guarantee they would buy the player at the end of the season.

Which suggests that all other players that have left, have actually be sold, but can't be formailsed until the transfer window opens..... Goes some way to explaining the 700k loan fee for Henderson.

 

:facepalm:

 

Please don't tell me you REALLY believed that they were only "Loaning Players Out"

 

It has always been a fire sale to get every last penny in the door. Obviously that puts Club Chairmen in the driving seat at the "Buying" club.

 

It's poopey FFS, obviously they would find a way to get around the "Transfer Window" rules and "Sell" their players

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Yep, I am afraid I do.

 

No one is walking away fron the remaining parachute payments and Birch is on record saying that chinny doesn't get the ground, he only gets what it is sold for.

So chinny will take over, sell any player he can and the club will run down slowly until the last parachute payment is in.

The good news, is he doesn't care what league they are in, in fact the lower the better as it will keep costs down.

 

But those parachute payments are being nibbled away every day. If players are deferring wages then those wages will come under football creditors, so they'll get paid before Chinny gets any of it. How long till even he realises it simply isn't worth the wait and the hassle.

 

Am I right in thinking that it's the administrators decision whether to liquidate or or not (assuming it's not forced on them externally)? And as he's not allowed to incur any extra debt, can't see any way they can extend their finger grip on survival through the close season.

 

Voluntary liquidation announced day after they complete their final fixture is my bet.

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There would be no logic to such a rule, since the purpose of the parachute payments is to protect relegated clubs from financial meltdown, giving them support in paying ongoing high wages of players signed when in the PL. That applies just as much, if not more if they are relegated again to L1. It would make no sense to abandon a club when it needed the cash even more because its other sources of income went down further still.

 

Of course what is supposed to happen, is that the relegated club uses this grace period to reduce its costs as much as possible in preparation for future break-even, transferring out those high earners that it can, and signing cheaper players etc, but having some money to hang on grimly wit,h if some players insist on seeing out a lucrative contract a la Ben Haim. But as we all know the portsmouth ( and indeed west ham) model is to just spend like there is no tomorrow anyway.

 

The parachute system is fundamentally flawed as rather than helping ensure a "soft landing" it promotes a reckless boom and bust mentality. Get to the prem at all costs, because if you do, not only are you guaranteed one season of decent income, but 4 more thereafter even if you're relegated... and in those 4 seasons, why not spend all the money on players and wages (far in excess of those from clubs that don't have the parachute money) in order to do it all again?

 

A far better solution, IMHO, is to require all player contracts to have relegation release clauses. That way any club that gets relegated and cannot cope with the drop in revenue can easily, and without penalty, cut its cost base to match. It would also have a secondary benefit of stopping players from acting like mercenaries. If they knew they could be released without compensation then they might think more carefully about which contracts they sign, and with which clubs.

 

The parachute payments could turn back in to solidarity payments for distribution amongst the FL clubs... thus helping to ensure the survival of the smaller clubs who just struggle day-to-day even without breaking the bank to try and be "competitive", and protecting the great history that our football league has and the diversity and "local-ness" of our 92 clubs.

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There is so much riding on tonights result(s) - if they lose to Brum and results elsewhere go against them then MA and TB have intimated the white towel will be thrown in, and then you will see 2 or 3 more players leave 'on loan'.

 

Then TB can set out a budget for life in League One, and League Two the following season!

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The parachute system is fundamentally flawed as rather than helping ensure a "soft landing" it promotes a reckless boom and bust mentality. Get to the prem at all costs, because if you do, not only are you guaranteed one season of decent income, but 4 more thereafter even if you're relegated... and in those 4 seasons, why not spend all the money on players and wages (far in excess of those from clubs that don't have the parachute money) in order to do it all again?

 

A far better solution, IMHO, is to require all player contracts to have relegation release clauses. That way any club that gets relegated and cannot cope with the drop in revenue can easily, and without penalty, cut its cost base to match. It would also have a secondary benefit of stopping players from acting like mercenaries. If they knew they could be released without compensation then they might think more carefully about which contracts they sign, and with which clubs.

 

The parachute payments could turn back in to solidarity payments for distribution amongst the FL clubs... thus helping to ensure the survival of the smaller clubs who just struggle day-to-day even without breaking the bank to try and be "competitive", and protecting the great history that our football league has and the diversity and "local-ness" of our 92 clubs.

 

or do what Blackpool do and have contracts with a basic wage and a bonus system on how well they do - they made a loss going up, but that was cushioned by the PL money received and they didn't have to renegotiate the players contracts... do well, get the rewards or don't do well get no bonus!

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A far better solution, IMHO, is to require all player contracts to have relegation release clauses. That way any club that gets relegated and cannot cope with the drop in revenue can easily, and without penalty, cut its cost base to match. It would also have a secondary benefit of stopping players from acting like mercenaries. If they knew they could be released without compensation then they might think more carefully about which contracts they sign, and with which clubs.

 

Are you Rupert Lowe in disguise?

 

But seriously, that is the best solution all around. Either tems in the contracts that reduce wages in the case of relegation OR relegation release clauses. AND isn't that exactly the sort of thing Lord Lowe had written into the players' contracts pre PL relegation??

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Are you Rupert Lowe in disguise?

 

But seriously, that is the best solution all around. Either tems in the contracts that reduce wages in the case of relegation OR relegation release clauses. AND isn't that exactly the sort of thing Lord Lowe had written into the players' contracts pre PL relegation??

 

or do what Blackpool do and have contracts with a basic wage and a bonus system on how well they do - they made a loss going up, but that was cushioned by the PL money received and they didn't have to renegotiate the players contracts... do well, get the rewards or don't do well get no bonus!

 

And this is a good one as well.

 

Only trouble is the club could be like my company and decide that they don't have any money to pay the bonuses and of course the bonus agreement is ever so carefully worded to cover this!!

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Whats the latest guestimate of their monthly cash burn rate ?

 

I guestimate they are burning about £100,000 each and every day. This may be a little reduced at present as Birch is deffering eveything he can, so whilst they may not be burning that much cash today or tomorrow, the football creditors will be owed millions come the end of the season (as will the taxman, Chinny, Gadymack etc). There was an article a few pages back claiming pompey lose over a million pounds every single game which was rather hilarious.

 

The skate council are looking at options of buying the arena today, which must be a pretty sickening prospect for anyone other than a member of the deluded few. The thought of using tax payers cash to pay Chinny and Gadymack millions is disgusting, however it also demonstrates how unlikely it is that a buyer can be found.

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/politics/portsmouth-city-councillors-to-discuss-buying-fratton-park-if-pompey-are-liquidated-1-3642273

 

Perhaps miss money penny will be making an appearence, she has been quiet since her last little PR stunt.

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I guestimate they are burning about £100,000 each and every day. This may be a little reduced at present as Birch is deffering eveything he can, so whilst they may not be burning that much cash today or tomorrow, the football creditors will be owed millions come the end of the season (as will the taxman, Chinny, Gadymack etc). There was an article a few pages back claiming pompey lose over a million pounds every single game which was rather hilarious.

 

The skate council are looking at options of buying the arena today, which must be a pretty sickening prospect for anyone other than a member of the deluded few. The thought of using tax payers cash to pay Chinny and Gadymack millions is disgusting, however it also demonstrates how unlikely it is that a buyer can be found.

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/politics/portsmouth-city-councillors-to-discuss-buying-fratton-park-if-pompey-are-liquidated-1-3642273

 

Perhaps miss money penny will be making an appearence, she has been quiet since her last little PR stunt.

 

I'm fairly sure that there would be many Portsmouth residents who would object vociferously to their council tax payments going towards a purchase of Fratton Park so I'd expect there to be a big argument before that happens.

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Reading between the lines - Appleton is saying that there really isn't much point worrying about offloading anyone else - in the Champ 75% chance of liquidation, in L1 100%, so let's have one last desperate roll of the dice before being ejected shirtless from the casino.

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/appy-last-loan-deals-can-wait-1-3642298

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I guestimate they are burning about £100,000 each and every day. This may be a little reduced at present as Birch is deffering eveything he can, so whilst they may not be burning that much cash today or tomorrow, the football creditors will be owed millions come the end of the season (as will the taxman, Chinny, Gadymack etc). There was an article a few pages back claiming pompey lose over a million pounds every single game which was rather hilarious.

 

The skate council are looking at options of buying the arena today, which must be a pretty sickening prospect for anyone other than a member of the deluded few. The thought of using tax payers cash to pay Chinny and Gadymack millions is disgusting, however it also demonstrates how unlikely it is that a buyer can be found.

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/politics/portsmouth-city-councillors-to-discuss-buying-fratton-park-if-pompey-are-liquidated-1-3642273

 

Perhaps miss money penny will be making an appearence, she has been quiet since her last little PR stunt.

 

This perhaps be significant, for a couple of reasons

 

1) It's the only solution that makes them close to being viable and to lose chinny along the way.I suspect 10 million would be enough and whilst there would be opposition, they could make it happen.

 

2) You don't just set up a council meeting to ask to buy some private land. They will be acting on the information from Birch and the likelihood of liquidation and what he thinks chinny would accept. The window of time to make this happen is very small. Another option is that a buyer or consortium are working with council, with the council stumping up the cash for the ground and a deal for rent or percentage of ticket sales already agreed.

 

Few more weeks to go yet, but the first bit of news with any relevance for a while, in my opinion.

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Looking at those comments, some of them think 'the worst happening' is relegation to L1. They think they'll just be able to bounce back with a better side and big crowds in L1. Have they read nothing about their situation? You'd have thought fans would show some interest, but that level of ignorance on the subject suggests they've paid zero attention for a few years. Starting next season in L1 with their current club would be an amazing achievement given what has to transpire for it to happen.

 

Their current level of crowds wouldn't be considered big in L1 so accepting that they'll very probably (if they avoid liquidation which is looking increasingly doubtful) be starting on another points deduction for not servicing the first CVA ...the phew will almost certainly be phewer!

 

Shame uh?:nod::lol:

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Good to see one of the posters on their comments section has at last caught up with the discovery that one of the bright sparks on here stumbled across a few weeks ago....

 

Tuesday, March 20, 2012 at 11:57 AM OK - so does anyone know anything about a new Portsmouth Football Club Ltd being set up? Go to companies house's website , and enter Company No. 07963840 in the websearch. A new Portsmouth Football Club Ltd was incorporated on 24022012, with a registererd office in Hayling Island.

 

Keep up fellas..... ;-)

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Intresting that the Varney to Forest deal has fallen through. Forest couldn't guarantee they would buy the player at the end of the season.

Which suggests that all other players that have left, have actually be sold, but can't be formailsed until the transfer window opens..... Goes some way to explaining the 700k loan fee for Henderson.

 

It seems that I may be much older and therefore much more cynical than you. As D. Phil says, the Skates' parlous position on the verge of liquidation, makes this very much a buyer's market. The normal laws of supply and demand that would push a price upwards, does not seem to exist. Have you read anywere of a significant queue of suitors for Henderson's services? He's undoubtedly a good goalkeeper with potential, but if the Skates are liquidated, he'll be a free agent. Being a cynic, his situation appears to have very much more to do with the fact that this substantial sum of money for a short term loanee, swells the Skate coffers enough to give them a glimpse of completing the season, meaning that WH will not suffer the loss of 6 points against our 1 and Reading's 3. So patently WH are pulling a flanker, cynically buying an increased chance of automatic promotion.

 

My best hope is that the Skates are liquidated before the end of the season anyway. But failing that, I would dearly love WH to have to fight their way through the play-offs, where I feel that they would not prevail.

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It'll be the summer period they will have problems. No income coming in but they will still have wages to pay. We weren't able to sell season tickets, i don't know if they wont either, but if they can't then that wont help their cashflow in the earlier parts of next season either.

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My best hope is that the Skates are liquidated before the end of the season anyway. But failing that, I would dearly love WH to have to fight their way through the play-offs, where I feel that they would not prevail.

 

And be facing next season £600k-£700k worse off because of the loan.

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And be facing next season £600k-£700k worse off because of the loan.

 

That is the amount of the gamble, an outlay of £6/700k for the riches of the Premiership, but as you say, if it doesn't happen, then they are deep in the sh*t. It would be a nice illustration of "cheats never prosper", but the Skates have been getting away with that for too long. But even their day of reckoning draws near.

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The skate council are looking at options of buying the arena today, which must be a pretty sickening prospect for anyone other than a member of the deluded few. The thought of using tax payers cash to pay Chinny and Gadymack millions is disgusting, however it also demonstrates how unlikely it is that a buyer can be found.

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/politics/portsmouth-city-councillors-to-discuss-buying-fratton-park-if-pompey-are-liquidated-1-3642273

 

Council tax bills went out in Pompey this week. Although they remained the same for the third year running I doubt the £1300 (average) or whatever is viewed as being a small amount and many householders won't fancy seeing part of it used to prop up a tax avoiding company like PFC.
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LOVE the blasé way Storrie gobs off about his magnificent Tal Ben Haim signing, and also needlessly raising suspicion that it is a dodgy deal!

 

"He was a Premier League player and £35,000 a week wasn't an outrageous sum of money. There was nothing untoward about it."

 

Followed up by this gem from Conn

 

With a contract for image rights, payable to a company registered in the tax haven of Guernsey, Ben Haim's pay totalled around £50,000 a week, £2.5m a year, for four years, a £10m commitment. Two administrations on, bottom of the Championship after a 10-point deduction, Portsmouth must still pay Ben Haim's wages.

 

Storrie, Zahavi, TBH are all heroes in my eyes, I’m so proud of them all.

 

Zahavi has gone up in my estimation with his kind words for Chinny:

 

"I know him now, since he took over," "and he is a top man. But I did not know him before."

 

Chinny is a top man IMO and we should all be grateful to the man. The legacy he will leave at PFC should last for a lifetime of laughs.

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.pompeytrust.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=396%3Awhy-is-there-an-sgm-and-rule-vote-on-the-21st&catid=34%3Ademo-category

 

Shalala... shalala... sorry shall we mop up a few PST shares? Entitles you to a vote on PST matters. It would be funny to go around objecting and vetoing everything they try and set up.

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