Jump to content

Pompey Takeover Saga


Fitzhugh Fella

Recommended Posts

I think my preferred scenario is that Poopey last until the end of the season, and promptly go pop - having been soundly thrashed at SMS along the way. The season will also see Saints and Reading automatically promoted, with Wet Sham eliminated in the play-off 'semi final'.

 

As Metallica would put it "And Justice For All" !

 

Pretty much agree with that, If Pompey went bust before the end of the season and the points were taken off all we would be hearing especially from West Sham fans is we only won the league because of that and not because we earned it.

 

Hmm you seem familiar to me lol :p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If they do go into liquidation then it needs to be prior to 31 May because any phoenix club will need to register with whatever league they want to go into by then

 

Newport's situation in 1988/89 tells me that it's perfectly possible to register a club provisionally for a League without having to follow it through.

 

The season after being expunged from the Conference, Jerry Sherman, who was in charge of Newport County when they got wound up, tried to register them - the original club - for the Isthmian League (he also succeeded in getting their constitution changed to include "London, the Home Counties... and South Wales" to do so) at the same time as the new club, Newport AFC, were registering with the Hellenic League to get into the Southern League pyramid. Only the AFC club (now renamed Newport County AFC) started the following season. In addition, AFC Wimbledon and FCUM are both new clubs from a single set of fans which began even though the old club continued.

 

Of course the difference here is that for some reason all these disillusioned Skates have decided AFCP won't need to exist if PFC somehow manage to continue, basket case or not. They have nothing like the level of commitment that the fans of FCUM and AFC Wimbledon have, both setting up new clubs because they weren't going to stand by and have the still-existing club run in the way it was.

 

Even if PFC somehow survive the summer, there should still be an AFCP if they're serious - or is the real issue that without the "ten thousand" fans (!) they won't have even the most tenuous claim to reforming at the TOP of the pyramid, rather than at the bottom where they should be ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to people on Pompey Online, Mullins' contract expires in July, so unless it's renewed, they've probably seen the back of him.

 

Also, the rumor going around skatesville is that Henderson's loan fee was c.£400k, with an option to buy for c. £1.2m in the summer... Now I know Big Sam is desperate to avoid the pompey liquidation point penalty... but those figures seem rather inflated to me. Would you loan a back-up keeper for almost half a million?

 

As I understand it, and I might be wrong, that loan fee includes his wages. West Ham pay a flat sum to Pompey, his wages are then paid from the Pompey bank account and then anything extra is the fee to Pompey for his services. I'd be surprised if it was £400k (£33k a week over the next 12 weeks) plus his wages.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is the loan window still open or is it only emergency loans at the moment?

 

The term "Emergency loans" is a little misleading, you don't need to have an emergency to sign someone it is open to any club from a week after the the end of the January window until late March. The window for loans and free transfers closes next Thursday.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I understand it, and I might be wrong, that loan fee includes his wages. West Ham pay a flat sum to Pompey, his wages are then paid from the Pompey bank account and then anything extra is the fee to Pompey for his services. I'd be surprised if it was £400k (£33k a week over the next 12 weeks) plus his wages.

 

That would make a lot more sense - if it was £400k plus his wages then there should be a stewards inquiry. Can't say I'm too concerned by these loans if it gives them the money to see out the season - my opinion might change though if Mullins pops up with the winner at St Mary's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

... The window for loans and free transfers closes next Thursday.

Exactly.

It closes at 17:00 on March 22nd unless it is a goalkeeper (Reg 54) who can be signed at anytime (subject to certain conditions).

53.2.2 Notwithstanding the provisions of Regulation 53.2.1, a Player cannot be registered on an Emergency Loan or Youth Loan:

(a) during the period of seven days after the end of a Transfer Window;

(b) in the first half of the Season, after 5pm on the fourth Thursday in November; and

© in the second half of the Season, after 5pm on the fourth Thursday in March unless in accordance with the provisions of Regulation 54.

http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20110629/section-6-players_2293633_2125731

Link to comment
Share on other sites

if I was the type of person who embraced conspiracy theories I might say that Cardiff, West Ham, Birmingham and Reading have now safely bought their points.

Which would make it even funnier if despite being 'helped out' by these teams, pompey still went pop before the end of April.

 

WARNING -

For the first time on this thread I'm just starting to think that the figures might stack up....:scared:

 

 

But only over two months...feel free to adjust any of these guesstimates, unless of course you sell toys for a living.

 

 

It looks like Birch has now reduced the wagebill by maybe £300K a month.

 

March wages with the squad reduction and deferred 25% will still be over a million.

That's about £2.5M to get to May? - plus all the little things like power, matchday staff and the police, luxury jet hire to away games, plus squirrels, tent pegs and bicycles for the loan players.

 

Outgoings for March-April - £3M?

 

I can't see ticket income being much higher than £500K plus FL money of £400K, and a season ticket drip feed of £600K?

With some shop sales and other dribs and drabs like loan fees, Birch might be within a million of breaking even in March and April - but only by delaying the tsunami that's gathering.

And to do that he'll have to abandon CVA1 and appeal to the caring side of the south's favourite arms dealer.

And delay Chanrai and any legal action he might embark on.

And keep AA at bay.

And possibly miss the April wages.

 

By May the deferred wages will add about £2M to the football creditors list, and the tax bill if unpaid will be up by a further £3-4M - a considerable cost to add for someone buying the club.

With Birch saying that the un-ringfenced parachute payments were down to £4M-7M, that would leave the future PPs due to be as little as £3M over the next two years - minus April wages if they are missed.

At this rate ALL of the Prem money will be gone by the end of June.

 

 

 

On reflection, perhaps the figures still don't stack up.

Another £100K a week needs saving, and shipping out more players is his best chance of doing it - Time for the youngsters, I can't see another option.

 

Cue more moaning about their plight and it being other people's fault.:?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think my preferred scenario is that Poopey last until the end of the season, and promptly go pop - having been soundly thrashed at SMS along the way. The season will also see Saints and Reading automatically promoted, with Wet Sham eliminated in the play-off 'semi final'.

 

As Metallica would put it "And Justice For All" !

 

i think 'For whom the bell tolls' would be apt..or maybe 'fade to black...' Or how about one for the fans..'welcome home...sanitarium....'

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't mind other clubs wanting to keep their 6 points. They earned them. It's our fault we only managed 1 point against them so far. i'd rather not be relying on points being wiped out for promotion. We'll win the league fair and square.

 

Totally. The whinging about them is, frankly, pathetic at times. Yes we know it's "not fair" etc but FFS, stop the bleating.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Totally. The whinging about them is, frankly, pathetic at times. Yes we know it's "not fair" etc but FFS, stop the bleating.

 

yeah, but...

 

And once again PTS Thread can see into the future and spot the bleedin' obvious.

 

After we wallop them 6-0 at SMS and win the Championship by 2 points we will then be subjected to a FURTHER barrage of Whinging along the lines of..

 

"Well they only did it because they played a weakend poopey team" They should deduct two points from SFC 'cos they never had to play the same wot we did innit"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lol at Hayden Mullins:

 

In the Portsmouth News, Mullins says: "It’s a sad day for me to have to go to another club to help Pompey keep going. All my best wishes go to all the players. It’s been a great time to be at Pompey for the period I’ve been here. I’m gutted to say goodbye really. I’ve got a lot of friends here."

 

On the Reading website, Mullins says: "It's been a long time coming really, I wanted to play for the club being local and it nearly happened last year, but didn't really come about. It's a result I've always looked for and I'm happy to see how well Reading have been doing, I'm glad to be here. I'll try and back the boys up and if I need to fill in anywhere I will. I know the run that the club have been on, everyone knows that in the division, and Reading are the team to stop at the moment."

 

I guess the PR officers at Portsmouth and Reading didn't work together on this one!

 

:lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Any one concerend that the skates are off loading their high earners to out promotion rivals?

 

Not really. If they were actually any good then the Skates wouldn't be in their current league position because they would have acquired a lot more points prior to the deduction. This, it seems, is the irony of it all... They adopted a quality over quantity policy in their playing squad, but the quality appears to be very questionable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As for your comments about Liebherr and not being a million miles from breaking even, if I don't know how do you? We've both had the same set of acounts to look at. the fact is your wage bill in your first year in L1 was £12m+ and that can only have increased (and pobably by a significant sum) you lost £9m (including the whole holding company) that year and had at least £7m to pay to creditors last year. You made a loss to gain pomotion - is that cheating? I se no difference between that and what you accuse us of doing to win the cup

 

And if it turns out in 4-5 years time we're bottom of the Championship in admin because we can't afford to pay any of our players due to only getting 20k to matches and paying them up to £80k a week with no owner to sustain that, we'll happily accept you're right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Thursday, March 15, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Good luck HM. On another note l managed to persuade my two cousins to come to the match Saturday one is a WHU fan and the other Burnley and they are going to wear their clubs shirts in support of Pompey."

 

:facepalm:

 

Aw, it's nice nice of this Skate's mum and sister to agree to go to the football with him on Saturday.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So are the WH fans feeling sorry for PFC even vaguely aware that they'll be in the same situation if they don't go up? Or will that be a massive surprise too deserving lots of sympathy?

 

Gold and Sullivan are too vain for the fanbase to not know how much debt they have taken on. Not that the Wham fans will be tolerant of it should they not go up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As for your comments about Liebherr and not being a million miles from breaking even, if I don't know how do you? We've both had the same set of acounts to look at. the fact is your wage bill in your first year in L1 was £12m+ and that can only have increased (and pobably by a significant sum) you lost £9m (including the whole holding company) that year and had at least £7m to pay to creditors last year. You made a loss to gain pomotion - is that cheating? I se no difference between that and what you accuse us of doing to win the cup

Wage bill in the first season in L1 was around £10m, I believe (haven't got the accounts document at home, it's on my work PC), which I would expect to have DEcreased last season because around 15 players left the club (Wayne Thomas alone accounted for about £500k a year), while only 5 players were signed (Dickson, Richardson, Butterfield in the summer, Forte and Chaplow in January). Throw in an increase in season ticket prices and an increase in attendances (20,982 in 09/10 up to 22,161 in 10/11) and while I don't expect that £8-9m loss to be wiped out completely, it'll be massively reduced.

 

Then chuck in the various revenue increases this season (Chamberlain sale, TV revenue, gate receipts) and I think we're doing OK. Probably should be doing better in terms of attendances this season given the position we're in, but then we don't bang on about how we've got the best fans in the world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lol at Hayden Mullins:

 

In the Portsmouth News, Mullins says: "It’s a sad day for me to have to go to another club to help Pompey keep going. All my best wishes go to all the players. It’s been a great time to be at Pompey for the period I’ve been here. I’m gutted to say goodbye really. I’ve got a lot of friends here."

 

On the Reading website, Mullins says: "It's been a long time coming really, I wanted to play for the club being local and it nearly happened last year, but didn't really come about. It's a result I've always looked for and I'm happy to see how well Reading have been doing, I'm glad to be here. I'll try and back the boys up and if I need to fill in anywhere I will. I know the run that the club have been on, everyone knows that in the division, and Reading are the team to stop at the moment."

 

I guess the PR officers at Portsmouth and Reading didn't work together on this one!

 

:lol:

 

 

PR and Portsmouth come on you dont expect us to believe that they actually have one do you :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Probably should be doing better in terms of attendances this season given the position we're in, but then we don't bang on about how we've got the best fans in the world.

 

Third best supported in championship with c25,300 average after WHU (28,900) and Derby (26,160). Our support is okay I reckon given the recession. Derby is amazing given its a relatively small city with not a massive catchment area and mid table position.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A man walks into a coal yard "good morning" he says to the coalman. " Have you any coal for sale,i've run out" "yes" says the coalman "that huge pile over there" "but that pile of coal is white" says the man "what" says the coalman "white,it couldn't be any more black" says the coalman. "No way that is a large pile of white coal" says the man.The coalman looks at this idiot and says "well that is the only coal we have so if you wanna keep warm then you will have to buy some of that" "does it burn well ?" asks the man. The coalman looks at the man and thinks lets just get rid of him. "Look, if you want some we have a good deal on at the moment,and we can deliver for free" "ok" says the man "i'll have two tons" "right just put your name and address on this form and i will deliver it today" "ok" says the man

 

 

Corp ho

Sunny buttercup meadow estate,

portsmuff

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Third best supported in championship with c25,300 average after WHU (28,900) and Derby (26,160). Our support is okay I reckon given the recession. Derby is amazing given its a relatively small city with not a massive catchment area and mid table position.

 

Derby do fantastic deals for families and give 1000s of tickets to schools every season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Derby do fantastic deals for families and give 1000s of tickets to schools every season.

 

Maybe Derby should have got Football League Family Club of the Season

 

They give away loads of tickets (like the deluded ones) but don't cheat local businesses and charities too!!!

 

No competition in my book

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And if it turns out in 4-5 years time we're bottom of the Championship in admin because we can't afford to pay any of our players due to only getting 20k to matches and paying them up to £80k a week with no owner to sustain that, we'll happily accept you're right.

 

That's the problem with them own the road. Their inability to separate the issues and understand the subtle differences.

 

1. Borrowing money to invest in a playing squad - there are two factors here a) the cost of purchase in the assest - the cost of which is usually written off over the length of the contract and b) the wages paid and what that means to cash flow. In our case we have in effect borrowed from our owner - a respectable and ethical family, for the purchase of some players, offset against the revenue received from sales - In our case this borrowing is in effect converted to equity should the club ever be sold, so is not debt in the true sense of the word as a new purchaser would have to pay this as part of the purchase price - only if a new purchaser leveraged the club would this then be a debt so to speak.

 

There can be good business to be had from investing in players as some can increase in value with old on - I would hazzard a guess that Morgan schneiderlin will be worth a fair few quid more than the 1mil paid a few years back - same goes for investing in the academy and academy infrastructure - can yield some nice revenue generting streams as well as reduciung the need to constantly buy players - this is what we have recently done AGAIN - the 'risk is low; because although there are 'borrowings' - the investmnet is in areas that GENERATE revenue and will cover the development cost within a short time frame.

 

Importantly, we have not 'broken the bank' in terms of wages - yes we are probably slightly above where we would like to be in terms of wage to revenue ratio - at a guess around 60%, when the ideal would be no more than 50 - but its manageable and we have players who are easiliy sellable and their wages are not so ridiculous that other clubs cant consider them....

 

So, in a nutshell, we have invested WISELY in areas that will yield a return, not simply slung mponey at players and agents and transfers

 

 

2. When does debt become cheating - this is where their ignornace is truely astounding... I will say it one more time in simple terms so that corpse can understand. It becomes cheating when FOR WHATEVER REASON, the club fails to pay its debts off or service those debts to the agreement and satisfaction of those who loaned the money. There can be some sympathy when this loans were provided for sound business development - infrastructure etc, something that has material value and also will be invome generating for the LONG TERM - as most clubs do not have the resources to spend 100mil cash on a new stadium for example - spending fortunes of borrowed cash on players and transfers is simply a level of risk that is so stupid it is laughable - as this undoudtedly provides a competitive advnatage, the FL quite righly punish clubs with points deductions should admin occur as a result - However, can it really be justice that a club who has written off 120mil + on...er nothing but player wages and transfer fees end up with teh same punishment as a club that tried to build for teh future and went into admin for the sake of 300k?.... there is simply no way that is fair....

 

Personally I am not in favour of big borrowings even if serviceable - the Abramovic model, whilst legal and certainly serviceable, is nonetheless creating a less competive environment, but how can you stop rich owners going mad with cash? Anyway, Pompey cheated their way to anything achieved whislts they were spendinig more than they earned the moment they stopped paying for it - same as we will call oursleves cheats the moment we fail to service the monies we owe to the Liebherr estate. However, one note on that - the latest figures show a TOTAL liabilty to the Liebherrs of 20mil (CORPSE included in this is the 13mil paid for the club in satisfying our liabilities to Aviva and Barclays) - We have player assetssprobably worth 15-20 mil, a ground, a training ground with more promising youngsters - and sit top of the NPC - On promomotion it is likely we would be worth approx 50-60 mil - so in effect the Liebherrs would be 30-40mil in profit should they choose to sell... no issue there.

 

The only danger would be if they did sell to someone who levergaed the club to be able to buy it saddling us with debt - It is this loophole the FL and FA need to close - If you dont have the cash - feck off. In addition to avoid the chinney situation, they should also make sure that when owners 'lend' monies to their clubs, it has to be as a 'gift' or without any security - this would remove all the tyre kickers and chancers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's no point in getting too hung up on players going to Reading or West Ham, they've done nothing wrong. The League sanction loans at this period and at least Birch is trying to shift people on. Personally I never thought that there was ever a chance of them going midseason, the FL would just not let it happen. That would be the same with any club in their premier comp, not just The Skates.

 

Lets face it, Green is pretty shiete and Henderson has had a good season,so it could be a good deal for Fat Sam with an eye on next season. Same with Reading, Mullins will add to their squad. If there was a player that was capable of adding to ours I would hope that Adkins would move to sign him. It's not West Ham or Readings fault we drew at that dump so will only lose 1 point.

 

Even if you do beleiev that West Ham have only signed him to protect the points, you aint going to prove it, as the valuation is not way OTT. We just need to get the job done and wave the Skates goodbye.

 

I agree sholeheartedly with this fine post. Let's just take care of things ourselves on the pitch :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the more astonishing things about the saga down the road is that, after all that happened first time around they set about, under the guidance of Lampitt, to more or less exactly repeat the failings of the first debacle. With the exception of TBH, most of the players on unsustainable wages that Birch goes on about were signed after the first admin - mostly older players on huge contracts without relegation clauses that were always going to be a millstone. Delusion and stupidity seems to infect them - I think it's something in the swampy mud that surrounds them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the more astonishing things about the saga down the road is that, after all that happened first time around they set about, under the guidance of Lampitt, to more or less exactly repeat the failings of the first debacle. With the exception of TBH, most of the players on unsustainable wages that Birch goes on about were signed after the first admin - mostly older players on huge contracts without relegation clauses that were always going to be a millstone. Delusion and stupidity seems to infect them - I think it's something in the swampy mud that surrounds them.

 

Probably because they'd figured out they were going to get away with it again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think my preferred scenario is that Poopey last until the end of the season, and promptly go pop - having been soundly thrashed at SMS along the way. The season will also see Saints and Reading automatically promoted, with Wet Sham eliminated in the play-off 'semi final'.

 

As Metallica would put it "And Justice For All" !

 

:poundit:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

seen three pompey fans tonight, two have completed the journey, accepted the current justice being dished out and are sick of the criminality.

BUT the other one tried to explain to me how most of their squad are actually on £5K a week, and it isn't as bad as people think.

 

I tried to explain to him what was going on for his own benefit (and mine!), but it was like doing a card trick with a dog.

What can you do?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just one thing to mention, the Football League don't count players who have no first team appearances in the squad numbers - that's why they're not picking the U-19s - as soon as they do, they count towards the total and reduce their chance of getting another loan in.

 

But then they're only allowed to have 5 loans in a match day squad and 4 on the pitch at once anyway, so they're running out of wiggle room.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

spencerc

Thursday, March 15, 2012 at 10:03 PM

scummers on here are cowards, poofs that wave at football are an embarrassment!!!! We'll be back and bigger and stronger. Our club is much bigger than scum and best fans by a country mile. We will keep our spirit no matter what!!! Scum filth will always be filth!! We will always have 2 league titles and 2 fa cups and scum will never win a fa cup again!!!!! Also we are a damnsite f*cking harder then you!!!! We're coming for you

Report Unsuitable

 

Completely foocked up in the head!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

seen three pompey fans tonight, two have completed the journey, accepted the current justice being dished out and are sick of the criminality.

BUT the other one tried to explain to me how most of their squad are actually on £5K a week, and it isn't as bad as people think.

 

I tried to explain to him what was going on for his own benefit (and mine!), but it was like doing a card trick with a dog.

What can you do?

 

I know, like peeing in the Solent to warm the Atlantic up, feckin futile.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rangers in the news everyday. A number of interested parties pledging to save them. If I was one of the phew I would be very worried that Mr Birch has been saying very little as he ships out overpaid stars in a too little too late attempt to steady the ship.

 

Anyone who has ever watched Titanic and bothered to watch on after Kate Winslet got her bits out will remember the ships designer predicting the imminent doom of the ship when a certain amount of the hull was breached; "it is a mathmatical certainty that she will sink" as I recall. Well this is the fate that awaits Pompey, they are going down by the nose and unless there happens to be a some mad billionaire willing to donate money to a League One club with no infrastructure and TCWTB then they are "truly ****ed, it is a mathmatical certainty"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If only they had given some of their kids a seat on the bench a little earlier, they could have come in and helped out in their time of need.

 

Where are their 19 year olds?

 

Oh yeah out on loan playing football for other clubs

 

Or Matt Ritchie, player of the season at Swindon last season.

Or marlon pack, running the midfield at high flying cheltenham.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...