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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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ALWAYS_SFC

ALWAYS_SFC

Posted
Posted
Pompey could be in further trouble if they fail to give an adequate response to the FA after a Middlesborough player was hit with a 50p coin during their game last week. The FA have written to Pompey asking them to explain what happened.

 

He was probably aiming at one of the collection bins but missed...

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Um Bongo

Um Bongo

Posted
Posted
How can a club stop that though? Every club has its morons. The only thing to be done is identify them and ban wherever possible.

 

Although perhaps PFC are reluctant to impose bans when they can't pack the park?! As a bigger punishment, they could take that 50p as a deposit on a lifetime season ticket.

 

I don't know, just read it in the paper. I would say you can't. However, the referee noted it in his report, hence why the club now have to explain it to the FA.

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Sour Mash

Sour Mash

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Posted
How can a club stop that though? Every club has its morons. The only thing to be done is identify them and ban wherever possible.

 

Although perhaps PFC are reluctant to impose bans when they can't pack the park?! As a bigger punishment, they could take that 50p as a deposit on a lifetime season ticket.

Only thing they could possibly get done for is not having a sufficient level of stewarding/policing in the ground. I'd imagine they are cutting those sort of resources as tightly as possible.
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Petersfield Saint

Petersfield Saint

Posted
Posted
Well worth placing clubs under transfer embargoes outside the transfer window :rolleyes: (and yes, I realise that covers out-of-window loans as well, but the emergency loan rules will be tightened up or even removed in the next couple of years)

 

Rather than imposing ineffective registration bans, the Football League should take a leaf out of the Conference's book and hand out points deductions for non-compliance with financial regulations.

 

For example:

-1pt for every month the club's tax bill is paid late (or not at all), with the deduction rising each consecutive month, e.g. month 1 would be -1pt, if month 2 also goes unpaid, it's another -1pt for month 2, plus an additional -1 for consecutive months, etc.

-1pt for every month the wage bill is paid late (or not at all), again with deductions rising each consecutive month

-5pts for failing to publish the club's accounts by the deadline

-10pts for entering administration

Up to -25pts for exiting administration without agreement to pay 100% to creditors, sliding scale depending on the CVA agreement - this makes it in the buyer's interests to pay back as much of the debt as possible... now *that* would "maintain the integrity of the competition", as the Football League like to quote at any given opportunity.

-5pts for altering the agreed timescale for a CVA

-10pts for failing to make an agreed payment to a CVA

 

I reckon you'd soon see more clubs fall into line pretty sharpish...

 

Great post - agree with all of that but especially the bit in bold.

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Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/poyet-likes-of-pompey-should-be-relegated-straight-away-1-3603874

 

Gus Poyet has insisted clubs who go into administration should be relegated.

 

The Brighton boss believes teams like Pompey are ‘cheating’ by overspending and then calling in administrators.

 

Poyet said: ‘I’ve got a clear view of that and I’m not talking about Portsmouth exclusively.

 

‘I would be more severe with any club, because it is people that, right or wrong, are cheating the competition.

 

‘They try to spend what they don’t have to see if they can get up, and if they don’t they go into administration.

 

‘It shouldn’t be like that. For me categorically I would like the teams that get into that down, not ten points, down.

 

‘Then we will see how the teams are going to react and who is going to take responsibility.

 

‘That is the other point. Somebody needs to be responsible.’

 

Say it as it is Gus..................

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The9

The9

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Posted
"Some fans are in favour of accepting that fate with the guarantee that crowds of 15,000 at Fratton Park will cheer them on as they fly through the divisions."

 

I think I've already made it pretty clear the percentage of current Skate fans I'd expect to follow a non-League team, they won't average more than 3500 if they're in level 8, no-one ever does. If they somehow wangled their way directly into the Conference I'd expect maybe 5000, and a massive stink from every other reformed club ever as they've all had to work through the leagues.

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holepuncture

holepuncture

Posted
Posted
vindablue said: ↑

 

Good number last night but I saw that the Scummers took 4000 :stomp:

 

Right, another scummer banned - not only are they so bloody pathetic by trying to hide (we will always find them) but how can anyone who supposedly loves their club insult their own club? I'd never hide behind a name and refer to us as "skates".

 

F**k off scummer, we're onto all of you - Twitter all you like "Vindaloo", call yourselves what ever you want - we don't want you on here, we don't want you anywhere near here, we will find you and we will weed you out. No point in hiding behind stupid, moronic names, at least man up and use a proper name, you're only going to get caught and banned anyway so why bother hiding?

 

scumdar.gif

 

Was having a browse earlier and saw this on one of the threads. Bit harsh dont ya think? We embrace our skates on here and tolerate their foolishness, cant that same generosity be afforded by poopey forums?

 

A little sensitive!

 

and as for

 

"Some fans are in favour of accepting that fate with the guarantee that crowds of 15,000 at Fratton Park will cheer them on as they fly through the divisions."

 

PMSL, laugh a minute the old skates. 15,000 in the Wessex league?!! For that matter I cant imagine Moneyfields will house many more than 2-3000.

 

Stupid, deluded skates... close them down...

 

 

Gus Poyet, never really liked him, but hes just shot up in my estimation.

 

Poyet said: ‘I’ve got a clear view of that and I’m not talking about Portsmouth exclusively.

 

‘I would be more severe with any club, because it is people that, right or wrong, are cheating the competition.

 

‘They try to spend what they don’t have to see if they can get up, and if they don’t they go into administration.

 

‘It shouldn’t be like that. For me categorically I would like the teams that get into that down, not ten points, down.

 

‘Then we will see how the teams are going to react and who is going to take responsibility.

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/poyet-likes-of-pompey-should-be-relegated-straight-away-1-3603874

 

WTFILN

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ALWAYS_SFC

ALWAYS_SFC

Posted
Posted

Appleton praises under-fire Ben Haim

 

By Neil Allen

Published on Thursday 8 March 2012 10:00

 

Michael Appleton has praised the attitude of under-fire Tal Ben Haim.

 

The Israeli defender is Pompey’s biggest earner, picking up a reported £36,000 a week.

 

Signed by Peter Storrie on a four-year contract in August 2009, the wages remain a massive headache as the Blues battle to stay in existence.

 

Ben Haim has unquestionably been a consistent performer this season, making 27 appearances.

 

But in many fans’ eyes he represents times when the club outlived its means – and Pompey continue to pay the costly price.

 

In a club wage bill of around £12.5m, Ben Haim is by a considerable distance the best-paid player.

 

But Appleton cannot fault his displays on the pitch in recent weeks.

 

He said: ‘Tal has been good for us over a period of six, seven, eight games since he’s come back into the side.

 

‘I wouldn’t question his attitude from that point of view.

 

‘He went down with a virus on Tuesday morning so couldn’t travel to Reading.

 

‘I spoke to him briefly and he sounded a bit rough.

 

‘We will assess him over the next 24 hours and hopefully he will be okay for Brighton.’

 

The former Bolton man wasn’t alone in missing the 1-0 Madejski Stadium defeat.

 

Veteran strikers Kanu and Benjani were also absent from the squad.

 

Kanu, who has never featured under Appleton, is currently nursing a persistent back problem.

 

He is contracted until the summer of 2013.

 

As for Benjani, he is out with a calf problem.

 

Appleton added: ‘Benjani has got a calf injury.

 

‘And Kanu is in a position where he was before with his back and is just not fit enough to play.’

 

All hail TBH....All 36k per week...lol

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stevegrant

stevegrant

Posted
Posted

The problem with imposing any sort of "automatic relegation" punishment on a club that goes into administration is that clubs don't always go into administration during the summer, when it would be easy to relegate them and rejig the fixtures. In Pompey's case, they went into admin in February - with an auto-relegation rule, where's the incentive for them to bother trying for the rest of the season if they know they're going down anyway?

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Colinjb

Colinjb

Posted
Posted (edited)
The problem with imposing any sort of "automatic relegation" punishment on a club that goes into administration is that clubs don't always go into administration during the summer, when it would be easy to relegate them and rejig the fixtures. In Pompey's case, they went into admin in February - with an auto-relegation rule, where's the incentive for them to bother trying for the rest of the season if they know they're going down anyway?

 

I suppose the argument would be that it would give them time to restructure the club knowing what will be coming. Cut the cloth as required, trim everything knowing that the worst has already happened and try to find a buyer/new owner that can then take them on at the lower level. Allow for the slash and burn and allow rebuilding from the bottom up.

 

Also, the severity of the punishment should provide a greater incentive to not get into trouble in the first place.

Edited by Colinjb
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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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Posted
The problem with imposing any sort of "automatic relegation" punishment on a club that goes into administration is that clubs don't always go into administration during the summer, when it would be easy to relegate them and rejig the fixtures. In Pompey's case, they went into admin in February - with an auto-relegation rule, where's the incentive for them to bother trying for the rest of the season if they know they're going down anyway?

 

Why does that matter? Other teams have been given -10 points which pretty much guaranteed their relegation and they still played on professionally. Every season you get teams that are relegated before the final game and they still play through the final games of the season with no problem.

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COMEONYOUREDS

COMEONYOUREDS

Posted
Posted

Some gems on this old article:

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/roman-dubov-plans-fratton-park-revamp-1-3113808

 

174AllManners

Tuesday, October 4, 2011 at 11:46 AM I've been impressed so far by the way CSI are going about their business. We've brought in some promising signings and things appear to be happening on the organisational side of the whole club. They're asking for feedback and guidance so open to listening. There is obviously forward planning going on too so I say well done CSI

 

15spencerc

Monday, October 3, 2011 at 11:57 AM To me spending money on the old ground is a total waste of money. I'm sure fans would rather see the redevelopment go ahead and the money spent on that. Also severence pay for Steve Coterill. Get in Martin Oneil asap!!! Sell him the vision and he will come on board.

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stevegrant

stevegrant

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Posted
Why does that matter? Other teams have been given -10 points which pretty much guaranteed their relegation and they still played on professionally. Every season you get teams that are relegated before the final game and they still play through the final games of the season with no problem.

OK then genius, say a club goes into administration in the middle of September, rather than at a point in the season where their fate may already be inevitable, what happens?

 

While fans may rally behind a club that goes into administration for a handful of games towards the end of a season, even if they're going down, can you really see a club getting the support (both financially and numerically) it needs for pretty much an entire season safe in the knowledge that no matter how well or badly they do, they'll be playing in the league below next season? Players have professional pride, yes, but there comes a time when it all becomes a fairly futile exercise. Determining a relegation place 8 months in advance is a ridiculous idea.

 

Much better to punish clubs for the little things that often lead to insolvency problems in the first place.

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100%Red&White

100%Red&White

Posted
Posted
Some gems on this old article:

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/roman-dubov-plans-fratton-park-revamp-1-3113808

 

174AllManners

Tuesday, October 4, 2011 at 11:46 AM I've been impressed so far by the way CSI are going about their business. We've brought in some promising signings and things appear to be happening on the organisational side of the whole club. They're asking for feedback and guidance so open to listening. There is obviously forward planning going on too so I say well done CSI

 

15spencerc

Monday, October 3, 2011 at 11:57 AM To me spending money on the old ground is a total waste of money. I'm sure fans would rather see the redevelopment go ahead and the money spent on that. Also severence pay for Steve Coterill. Get in Martin Oneil asap!!! Sell him the vision and he will come on board.

 

You mock but it could have been so different. It was only earlier this season they were joint top.

 

a1tdw.jpg

 

If I remember correctly it was the first week in August.

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holepuncture

holepuncture

Posted
Posted
Does anyone remember a photo of one of PFC's owners sitting in/on a digger when they were looking to start development work on a new ground?

 

That's what I thought, but can I find the photo online anywhere? Can I buggery...

 

Please allow me (milan mandarich portsmouth digger)

 

a_229659a.jpg

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted (edited)

On the point of automatic relegation how about the following (though probably more holes in it than the fratton park roof):

 

Any team going into admin gets an automatic 10 point deduction.

If at the end of the season that club is relegated then the 10 points will carry over if they would have been relegated without it.

If at the end of the season a club that has been/is in admin is not in the relegation positions then they will play a playoff match against the highest place non-promoted team in the league below. If more than one team in this situation then the lowest place team plays the highest non-promoted in the league below, second lowest plays second highest, etc.

 

What would happen if a team went into admin but still got promoted is too confusing to think!

Edited by pedg
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sidthesquid

sidthesquid

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Posted
OK then genius, say a club goes into administration in the middle of September, rather than at a point in the season where their fate may already be inevitable, what happens?

 

While fans may rally behind a club that goes into administration for a handful of games towards the end of a season, even if they're going down, can you really see a club getting the support (both financially and numerically) it needs for pretty much an entire season safe in the knowledge that no matter how well or badly they do, they'll be playing in the league below next season? Players have professional pride, yes, but there comes a time when it all becomes a fairly futile exercise. Determining a relegation place 8 months in advance is a ridiculous idea.

 

Much better to punish clubs for the little things that often lead to insolvency problems in the first place.

 

Basically, if you enter admin & get relegated from the Champ to League One, you drop straight to League Two. If you finish above the bottom three you only drop to League One. If you get promoted, you stay in the Champ - ie, whatever your final position you automatically drop a league accordingly. Simples.

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Doctoroncall

Doctoroncall

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Posted
OK then genius, say a club goes into administration in the middle of September, rather than at a point in the season where their fate may already be inevitable, what happens?

 

While fans may rally behind a club that goes into administration for a handful of games towards the end of a season, even if they're going down, can you really see a club getting the support (both financially and numerically) it needs for pretty much an entire season safe in the knowledge that no matter how well or badly they do, they'll be playing in the league below next season? Players have professional pride, yes, but there comes a time when it all becomes a fairly futile exercise. Determining a relegation place 8 months in advance is a ridiculous idea.

 

Much better to punish clubs for the little things that often lead to insolvency problems in the first place.

 

Admin in September would be extremely rare! I think your post on the conference rules eludes to the need to combine penalties with the financial aspects of the business which hopefully the FFP we start to address next season.

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Wibble

Wibble

Posted
Posted
Please allow me (milan mandarich portsmouth digger)

 

a_229659a.jpg

 

I don't think you should post that picture without the accompanying article that was published with it:

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/222857/Its-Flatton-Park.html?print=yes

 

"It's Flatton Park

 

 

PORTSMOUTH chairman Milan Mandaric turned demolition man yesterday to start work on transforming Fratton Park into a 35,000-seater stadium.

 

The Serbian millionaire donned a hard hat and jumped aboard a digger to kick-start the £30million redevelopment.

 

Pompey hope to have work complete in time for the start of next season and are turning the existing stadium 90 degrees and will build three new stands.

 

Mandaric said: "This has been one of the most significant days in the club?s history.

 

"I feel better as a demolition man than chairman! I promised our fans facilities they deserve."

 

Pompey want Panathinaikos defender Sotiros Kyrgiakos to replace Arjan De Zeeuw, who returned to Wigan this week."

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St_Tel49

St_Tel49

Posted
Posted
I don't think you should post that picture without the accompanying article that was published with it:

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/222857/Its-Flatton-Park.html?print=yes

 

"It's Flatton Park

 

 

PORTSMOUTH chairman Milan Mandaric turned demolition man yesterday to start work on transforming Fratton Park into a 35,000-seater stadium.

 

The Serbian millionaire donned a hard hat and jumped aboard a digger to kick-start the £30million redevelopment.

 

Pompey hope to have work complete in time for the start of next season and are turning the existing stadium 90 degrees and will build three new stands.

 

Mandaric said: "This has been one of the most significant days in the club?s history.

 

"I feel better as a demolition man than chairman! I promised our fans facilities they deserve."

 

Pompey want Panathinaikos defender Sotiros Kyrgiakos to replace Arjan De Zeeuw, who returned to Wigan this week."

To be fair - he left them with the facilities they deserve :)

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redkeith

redkeith

Posted
Posted

On the admin/financial mismanagement front, one answer might be that if a club owed money to another after the transfer of a player, then that player cannot play until the debt is paid.

 

Eg if the Skates were 100K behind in their payments for Halford, then he cannot play until they cough up. This would punish clubs if they went bust at any time of the season. Imagine going bust in October, and all of your new signings are sat in the stand.

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stevegrant

stevegrant

Posted
Posted
Basically, if you enter admin & get relegated from the Champ to League One, you drop straight to League Two. If you finish above the bottom three you only drop to League One. If you get promoted, you stay in the Champ - ie, whatever your final position you automatically drop a league accordingly. Simples.

All well and good, but then a club is having to adjust to a two-division shift in revenue rather than just one, and they were clearly making a mess of running things at their current level if they'd been forced into administration.

 

Even using it as a "nuclear option" punishment to scare clubs into complying, I'm not convinced it would work as intended. While I've praised the Conference for the way they punish clubs for missing payments, etc, I do think the way they insist that all debts are settled in full at the end of a season before they are allowed back in the following season appears ridiculously OTT - it doesn't seem to cater for affordable long-term debt. Not all debt is bad, despite the perception.

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Joensuu

Joensuu

Posted
Posted

Personally, I think the punishment for admin should be a 15 point penalty that carries over (so that on relegation the point difference between the team who have been into administraton and safety is carried over into the following season, up to a maximum of the ful 15 point). I.e. Pompey would have entered the Championship on -9 points in sept 2010, which would have seen them finish only 2 places lower in 18th.

 

In addition, all directors of a club that enters admin will be excluded from becoming directors of any other league club for 5 years. All owners, will be excluded from passing the FAPPT at any other club for 10 years.

 

That way punishments stick, and the people who caused the mess get the real penalties.

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saint si

saint si

Posted
Posted
All well and good, but then a club is having to adjust to a two-division shift in revenue rather than just one, and they were clearly making a mess of running things at their current level if they'd been forced into administration.

 

Even using it as a "nuclear option" punishment to scare clubs into complying, I'm not convinced it would work as intended. While I've praised the Conference for the way they punish clubs for missing payments, etc, I do think the way they insist that all debts are settled in full at the end of a season before they are allowed back in the following season appears ridiculously OTT - it doesn't seem to cater for affordable long-term debt. Not all debt is bad, despite the perception.

 

FL&PL should insist on mandatory relegation (or admin) release clauses (for the clubs to trigger if they wish to) in players' and management contracts, and at the same time do away with parachute payments. No excuses for being unable to adapt to the change in income levels if you can release your playing and management staff without financial penalty.

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Saint 76er

Saint 76er

Posted
Posted
Pompey could be in further trouble if they fail to give an adequate response to the FA after a Middlesborough player was hit with a 50p coin during their game last week. The FA have written to Pompey asking them to explain what happened.

 

Clearly it was a take over bid, so all above board really .... although I can't help feeling the offer was a little on the high side! :rolleyes:

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted

All this talk of getting the punishment levels right is tackling the problem from the wrong end IMO.

 

Set up the rules such that teams can't get themselves into financial difficulty in the first place.

 

Prevention, not cure.

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stevegrant

stevegrant

Posted
Posted
All this talk of getting the punishment levels right is tackling the problem from the wrong end IMO.

 

Set up the rules such that teams can't get themselves into financial difficulty in the first place.

 

Prevention, not cure.

Agreed, but one issue as far as fans are concerned is that there is no early warning system in place other than the usual forum ITKs who some will believe and others will ignore.

 

Transfer embargoes are generally kept quiet until it gets leaked to the press, and they're often completely pointless anyway (see recent Birmingham example, they knew it was coming so they signed players on loan the day before :facepalm:). If they knew the team would suffer in terms of its league position, that's a pretty big prevention for what is a relatively minor requirement (submitting accounts to the league) in the grand scheme of things. A 3-point deduction for Birmingham in that situation could be the difference between making the playoffs and missing out.

 

There's nothing like the fear of a "proper" punishment to focus the minds, and if a club's hit with a points deduction for their financial activities, the fans are left in no doubt that there's a problem, and it's far less likely that those in charge at the club will be able to try to muddle on without addressing the issue.

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

so the breaking news is that the Rangers bloke has failed their fit and proper person test!:scared:

 

Perhaps the Football League could take some lessons from our friends beyond the north.

 

I see Rangers getting liquidated - and pompey carrying on regardless.

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Pamplemousse

Pamplemousse

Posted
Posted

A few gems from the deluded phew on Pompey Online

 

That said are we not in a better position with the FL payments coming in? Do we still need to look at loaning out players?

 

:facepalm:

 

If my logic is correct, the most sensible thing is to keep Ward at Pompey as all our games will be watched by teams looking to take advantage of our situation at the end of the season.

 

Yup... the logic from the blue phew - let's keep a player and rack up more debt instead of loaning him out to save the club! :facepalm:

 

Irony's not lost on me again - Ipswich 66m in debt, no idea about Watford but I do recall they're operating in the red. Once again the FL show there's no sense in their decisions.

 

And then they resort to blaming the Football League... again :facepalm: :facepalm:

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