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Pompey Takeover Saga


Fitzhugh Fella

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It may seem outrageous that they are bringing more players in but you have to remember that Birch's job is to get the best return for the creditors. IF, in his view, the best way to do that is by staying in the Championship rather than playing in League1 next season (which, given the greater revenues from TV, gate receipts [lol] and other commercial income it may be) AND the additional cost of doing so is not prohibitive, then he can justify spending a little more in the short term to secure greater long term returns for those creditors.

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It may seem outrageous that they are bringing more players in but you have to remember that Birch's job is to get the best return for the creditors. IF, in his view, the best way to do that is by staying in the Championship rather than playing in League1 next season (which, given the greater revenues from TV, gate receipts [lol] and other commercial income it may be) AND the additional cost of doing so is not prohibitive, then he can justify spending a little more in the short term to secure greater long term returns for those creditors.

 

That is called gambling. Something a legit administrator is not allowed to do.

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It may seem outrageous that they are bringing more players in but you have to remember that Birch's job is to get the best return for the creditors. IF, in his view, the best way to do that is by staying in the Championship rather than playing in League1 next season (which, given the greater revenues from TV, gate receipts [lol] and other commercial income it may be) AND the additional cost of doing so is not prohibitive, then he can justify spending a little more in the short term to secure greater long term returns for those creditors.

Exactly. A fresh look at their situation is just what's needed. They're skint, obviously, so can't afford to run a big squad. Rather get a small core of really, really good players, to tap into that pot at the end of the rainbow. I'm liking his thinking already.

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It may seem outrageous that they are bringing more players in but you have to remember that Birch's job is to get the best return for the creditors. IF, in his view, the best way to do that is by staying in the Championship rather than playing in League1 next season (which, given the greater revenues from TV, gate receipts [lol] and other commercial income it may be) AND the additional cost of doing so is not prohibitive, then he can justify spending a little more in the short term to secure greater long term returns for those creditors.

 

His first job is to see if the business is a going concern, he is liable for losses from the date of appointment, and he must find cash to pay his fees. So he will have to start to cut costs to meet the income - better re-arrange the postponed game quick to get some more pennies in.

 

One of his team will have to investigate and report on the conduct of the directors in the period leading up to administration for the Department of business innovation and skills (formerly the DTI). If the directors are found to have been knowingly running an insolvent business, this is reported and the (DTI) and they must consider any punishment such as being barred from being a company director for a period, or in really bad circumstances they will be faced with criminal proceedings, a couple of directors resigned soon after CSI went into administration!.

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Good piece by Rod Liddell in The Times sports supplement today, entitled 'Portsmouth pay the price for absurd delusions of grandeur'.

 

Basically says they have ideas above their station and cheated.

 

Although, in typical Rod Liddle fashion he goes on to suggest that most teams (including Saints and Leeds) think that a few years in the top flight mean you have a right to be there. Think it was 27 Rod!

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Really?

I thought 'admin' meant a transfer embargo!

It does for every other team that goes into admin anyway.....

Pompey in their two admins have already signed more players than some clubs do during a transfer window!

 

Reading the Football League rules I believe they should be subject to a transfer embargo.

17 HMRC Reporting

17.1 Current HMRC Debt. With effect from 1st July 2009, any Club which has not within 28 (twenty eight) days of the relevant Due Date paid to HMRC the amounts due to be paid to HMRC to discharge:

17.1.1 the Club's full liability for PAYE & NIC due in respect of any and all employees or former employees of the Club for the immediately preceding payment period;

....

17.3 Any Club which has not, subject to the provisions of Regulation 17.4, concluded and lodged a Time to Pay Agreement by 1st July 2010 shall be deemed to be subject to a Default Event and the provisions of Regulation 17.7 shall apply.

....

17.7 Consequences of a Default Event. A Club which is subject to a Default Event shall be subject to a registration embargo such that it shall not be permitted to register any Player with that Club without the prior written consent of the Executive for the period that the Club is subject to a Default Event.

 

http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20110629/section-4-clubs_2293633_2125725

 

I don't think things have changed by going into Admin on Friday. I still think they are subject to a "Default Event" because they still owe PAYE & NIC and therefore SHOULD still have a Transfer Embargo in place imo. (The Admin just protected them from a winding-up order).

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Reading the Football League rules I believe they should be subject to a transfer embargo.

 

 

http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20110629/section-4-clubs_2293633_2125725

 

I don't think things have changed by going into Admin on Friday. I still think they are subject to a "Default Event" because they still owe PAYE & NIC and therefore SHOULD still have a Transfer Embargo in place imo. (The Admin just protected them from a winding-up order).

 

I think thats why they got the guy back from WBA coz they already held his registration. Its gonna be interesting to see if they try to bring anyone else in tho

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There is also some more in the Section (49) about "49 Transfer/Compensation Fees Method of Payment"

49.2.3 If a Club is in default of payments due to another Club under a transfer or compensation agreement the Board shall place an embargo on the registration of transfers by such defaulting Club until such time as the agreement is honoured. The Board shall also apply any Transfer Fee and/or Compensation Fee proceeds received for transmission to the defaulting Club, together with any payment of monies which would otherwise be payable to the defaulting Club, in settlement of the defaulting Club's overdue Transfer Fee and/or Compensation Fee commitments to any other Club or Clubs pro-rata.

 

49.2.4 If a Club is in default of any Transfer Fee and/or Compensation Fee and any subsequent payments which become due under the terms of the original transfer to another Club, the defaulting Club shall pay interest to the other Club at the rate of 5 per cent per annum over Barclays Bank base rate in force from time to time calculated on a daily basis.....

 

49.2.5 In the event of such default, in addition and without prejudice to the provisions of Regulations 49.2.4 and 49.2.5, the Executive shall have the power to impose a fixed fine under Regulation 78 or refer the matter to the Football Disciplinary Commission to impose such penalties upon the defaulting Club by way of reprimand, fine whether fixed or otherwise, embargo on registrations, deduction of points, suspension, or other penalty as they may think fit under the circumstances. Such Club may also be expelled pursuant to a special resolution passed at any Annual or Extraordinary General Meeting of The League. There shall be no appeal against the passing of such a special resolution.

http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20110629/section-6-players_2293633_2125731

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yeah, WBA are paying his wages - and they packed him off with a shedload of sandwiches, a tent and a sturdy bicycle - so he's not costing pompey a penny.

 

And Trousers, you might mock me, but Thorne does eat squirrels, and without any sauce - it's a fact! :x

The kitman's son told me - and I see him socially every few weeks, between toy conventions.

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yeah, WBA are paying his wages - and they packed him off with a shedload of sandwiches, a tent and a sturdy bicycle - so he's not costing pompey a penny.

 

And Trousers, you might mock me, but Thorne does eat squirrels, and without any sauce - it's a fact! :x

The kitman's son told me - and I see him socially every few weeks, between toy conventions.

 

While I think it's hypocritical of the FA to allow him to join, in contrast to the way they treated Bournemouth; the marginal costs of Thorne joining them are trivial. They can't afford flights, so a seat on the coach has no additional cost, he might be paying for his own accommodation and the additional cost of food are going to be small.

 

The most important thing is that they operate a one in/one out system and now get rid of one of the more expensive players. Kelvin Etuhu is the next one the FA have to make a decision on, he might have just played his last game for them.

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While I think it's hypocritical of the FA to allow him to join, in contrast to the way they treated Bournemouth; the marginal costs of Thorne joining them are trivial. They can't afford flights, so a seat on the coach has no additional cost, he might be paying for his own accommodation and the additional cost of food are going to be small.

 

The most important thing is that they operate a one in/one out system and now get rid of one of the more expensive players. Kelvin Etuhu is the next one the FA have to make a decision on, he might have just played his last game for them.

 

It would be somewhat ironic if this youngster has to pay for his own accomodation. Especially since Liam Lawrence (earning 20k per week for the past 18 months) wasnt able to pay for his own scan.

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I think thats why they got the guy back from WBA coz they already held his registration. Its gonna be interesting to see if they try to bring anyone else in tho

 

Yeah they did have his registration, but what puzzles me is why did they wait until after they went into admin to bring him back? Did they need their bank account unfrozen to do the deal? If he wasnt going to cost anything why didnt they bring him in much sooner?

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Tbf Liddell is correct. Saints have no divine right to be in the PL. We had 27 years at the top and due to some appalling management decisions we ended up outside but still paying for it.

 

Hopefully we will be back in the big time soon but it will require money, patience and an expansion of our revenue streams to stay there.

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WBA covering 100% of Thorne's wages.

 

Pretty sure the skates will be picking up his hotel etc....that will soon rack up a few of the thousands that are owed to the small businesses and charities - it's still not what an administrator should be prioritising if he has their best interests at the core of what his function is supposed to be.

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Yeah they did have his registration, but what puzzles me is why did they wait until after they went into admin to bring him back? Did they need their bank account unfrozen to do the deal? If he wasnt going to cost anything why didnt they bring him in much sooner?

 

As far as I know, Football League rules prevent a club bringing in any player(s) if they are in default of football debts. Pompey were in default, as they hadn't been able to pay installments to a few teams with their bank accounts frozen. Once those were unfrozen, they would be able to clear any debts and the FL would allow a loan signing. Chances are that's all there was to it.

Edited by Fowllyd
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Pretty sure the skates will be picking up his hotel etc....that will soon rack up a few of the thousands that are owed to the small businesses and charities - it's still not what an administrator should be prioritising if he has their best interests at the core of what his function is supposed to be.

 

They will pay his accommodation and he will stay at the Portsmouth Marriott, where they always put up players.

 

They might well have some sort of corporate deal, but current minimum rates per night is from £85 pppn. That's for a standard room and as we know, pro footballers are not accustomed to 'standard' so he'll be in a superior room at £195 per night (including brekkie, though).

 

Of course, any corporate deal they might have with the hotel might depend on them paying their previous bills.

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As far as I know, Football League rules prevent a club bringing in any player(s) if they are in default of football debts. Pompey were in default, as they hadn't been able to pay installments to a few teams with their bank accounts frozen. Once those were unfrozen, they would be able to clear any debts and the FL would allow a loan signing. Chances are that's all there was to it.

 

Thanks for answering..still feels a little unfair though. I can just see it...they are going to come through this with no real punishment. They will bring a few more players in next week and escape relegation, they will exit admin with a CVA so no more points deducted. Really those -10 points will not have any affect on the at all. All other teams who have gone into Admin have suffered and paid the price..They wont..again! Which will make pompey fans even more smug and deluded.

 

Hope im wrong

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Tony Husband @TonyHusbandBBC

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FavoritedFavorite · Close Open Details #pompey Birch believes club will exit admin with CVA, thus avoiding more points penalties. "Great opportunity to sell the club"

 

He's right. If they can get to the end of the season. If they can pay the CVA. If they can restructure their cost base. If they can sort out ground and land ownership. If they can find a buyer with funds to burn on a money-pit.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17089723

 

Portsmouth's problems are 'ugly' says administrator Trevor Birch

 

...

The former Chelsea chief executive said an unnamed player at Fratton Park is earning in excess of £30,000 a week.

"For a Championship club, that's just crazy," Birch said. "Expenditure has exceeded income."

 

...

"Just as the boxing incident was described as ugly, I think that word could be used by many supporters to describe the last few years at Portsmouth," he added on BBC Radio 5 live's Sportsweek.

"In simple terms, expenditure has exceeded income in a large way predominantly due to handing out unsustainable salaries to players on long-term contracts."

 

Tell us something we don't know!

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Wonder if we will see any legal challenge from Chainrai to the choice of administrator? Given the current admin appointed by the court what route would he have to take to get that decision overturned?

 

Android has already said that the large creditors (Him and Chinny) are going to appeal.

 

I cant really see any chance of success, but it would be funny.......and either way just makes the whole thing a bit messier

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Tony Husband @TonyHusbandBBC

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FavoritedFavorite · Close Open Details #pompey Birch believes club will exit admin with CVA, thus avoiding more points penalties. "Great opportunity to sell the club"

 

I listened to the interview that was taken from on R5 this morning and that quote sounded like he was in salesman mode. When the presenter asked if there were more attractive clubs for sale in the Football League he answered that most of them were...I think he's under few illusions but said that the nature of a football club usually meant that there would be potential buyers but the unsaid bit was which league that they would be in when that happened. He also acknowledged the precedents set by Leeds etc as to further deductions.

 

It sounded a bit like he was flannelling a bit as he won't have had a chance to sit down and 'forensically' look through the current set of book figures available being as he was only appointed on Friday. I still think that there are so many negatives attached to P*mpey that you'd have to be completely bl*ody mad to even consider it as a business proposition but if I was a billionaire Saints fan I'd probably not even consider the cost were we in the same position.

 

Not seen too many potted skates lining up to help them thus far though...how unfortunate!

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"In simple terms, expenditure has exceeded income in a large way predominantly due to handing out unsustainable salaries to players on long-term contracts."

 

 

Well what a surprise....but don't worry Trevor, go and speak to lumpitt.....he's got an explanation for that

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"In simple terms, expenditure has exceeded income in a large way predominantly due to handing out unsustainable salaries to players on long-term contracts."

 

Players that are on long-term contracts, are still with the club, and will probably keep them out of relegation.

 

That's called cheating, I think.

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Any one see Rod Little's piece about 'Cheating Pompey' in the Sunday Times today

 

On the reverse Adam Rant in the Footie Echo reckons Saints fans should wind their collective necks in re Pompey's admin

 

I don't recall anyone in the local media telling the phew to give it a rest when we were in admin.

 

So they can f*ck off now

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So if you were interested in buying a football club with a FL Golden Share what are the positives/negatives of considering PFC.

 

Positives

 

One city team with a decent fan base of 14,000 a game and the potential of more if marketed properly.

 

Some further parachute payments due

 

Negatives

 

Run down ground with a capacity which will limit growth

 

No own Training facilities

 

No Academy to speak of

 

Previous CVA debts

 

Chanrai and Gaydamac

 

Players on wages not in keeping with division let alone income v expenditure balance

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So if you were interested in buying a football club with a FL Golden Share what are the positives/negatives of considering PFC.

 

Positives

 

One city team with a decent fan base of 14,000 a game and the potential of more if marketed properly.

 

Some further parachute payments due

 

Negatives

 

Run down ground with a capacity which will limit growth

 

No own Training facilities

 

No Academy to speak of

 

Previous CVA debts

 

Chanrai and Gaydamac

 

Players on wages not in keeping with division let alone income v expenditure balance

 

POSITIVE

 

5 minutes of adoration from the phew when the takeover is complete

 

NEGATIVE

 

A lifetime of hate from the phew when you refuse to chuck a fortune at employing a band of ex-prem mercenaries

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Wonder if we will see any legal challenge from Chainrai to the choice of administrator? Given the current admin appointed by the court what route would he have to take to get that decision overturned?

 

Android has already said that the large creditors (Him and Chinny) are going to appeal.

 

I cant really see any chance of success, but it would be funny.......and either way just makes the whole thing a bit messier

 

Not just messier though! Dragging it out longer means more outgoings V less incoming. The club is already insolvent, so how much time has any administrator got (if they are above board).

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Now then loyal bestest pompey players.

 

When we went into admin some of our players volunteered to (and I mean volunteered not got bullied into) forego wages until the club was in a position to pay them, Kelvin for one.

 

How many of you 'quality over quantity' players are going to offer to do the same to save the club you 'love'?

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Now then loyal bestest pompey players.

 

When we went into admin some of our players volunteered to (and I mean volunteered not got bullied into) forego wages until the club was in a position to pay them, Kelvin for one.

 

How many of you 'quality over quantity' players are going to offer to do the same to save the club you 'love'?

 

I think they all deferred wages voluntarily. To be fair under the Football Creditors rule, they were always going to be paid. I guess it depends on what the administrator says to the Pompey players when he meets them....they may just carry on not being paid.

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"In simple terms, expenditure has exceeded income in a large way predominantly due to handing out unsustainable salaries to players on long-term contracts."

 

Players that are on long-term contracts, are still with the club, and will probably keep them out of relegation.

 

That's called cheating, I think.

 

Correct. Text book cheating.

 

'They' will get it one of these days....

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