Torres Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 Sorry, when did the judge say there was no evidence to support Chanrai's claim on the debenture? I've missed this news... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromdayone Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 Get voting guys http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/drivetime/blog/2012-02-17/poll-ten-points-enough-deduction-portsmouth-entering-administration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 Sorry, when did the judge say there was no evidence to support Chanrai's claim on the debenture? I've missed this news... I don't think he said anything one way or the other - I'd have thought you'd be best-placed to answer that question I believe there were comments querying the validity, but no evidence sought or provided by either side or the judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latter day saint Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 Get voting guys http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/drivetime/blog/2012-02-17/poll-ten-points-enough-deduction-portsmouth-entering-administration just done it. need more No votes ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowllyd Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 Sorry, when did the judge say there was no evidence to support Chanrai's claim on the debenture? I've missed this news... It was reported from the court that Norris cast doubt on the validity of the debenture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docker-p Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 Lord Sugar@Lord_Sugar Portsmouth FC goes bust 2nd time . Bet they will be playing on Sat, business as usual. Strange insolvency laws for football. JOKE ! AS is right, any other business would have had the plug pulled a long time ago. And what really grates is the amount owed to the HMRC ie; you and me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 From twitter a few days ago @OptaJoe Theo Walcott has made 103 crosses from open play and found a team-mate with just 14 this season Hit and hope? If he did come back at least he'd benefit from warming a bench that was closer to home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 What will happen regarding Chainrai's debenture remains to be seen. If it can be shown to be invalid (which will mean that proof would have to be found that no money passed from Portpin to PFC in 2009) then presumably it is simply struck out. However, I have no idea of the niceties of such things. The other issue, as far as PFC and Portpin are concerned, is the charge over Fratton Park held by the latter. Can this simply be removed, always assuming that it was taken out in return for no money passing the other way (or no debt being incurred from PFC to Portpin)? Presumably the owners/management of PFC were willing to grant this charge at the time, but given that the owner was Al-Faraj and either Storrie or Azougy was running the show, that's not saying very much. Beyond this, there's the question of other debt - the payments to Baker Tilly, the money owed to CSI and so forth. Plus, of course, the ownership of the land around Fratton Park, which is indisputably owned by Gaydamak. And the question of whether the business can be run on a solvent basis until a buyer can be found, which itself begs the question of whether a buyer can be found. Even if the purchase price comes down to a level which looks reasonable, any buyer will have to either invest massively (ground, training ground and other facilities for starters) or simply run a lower League 1/League 2 club with what's there now. Are there any potential buyers? If there are (you've mentioned Brian Howe as a possibility in an earlier post) do they have the funds or indeed the will to part with many tens of millions in addition to the purchase price? All in all, quite a tangled mess for Birch et al to sort out - and what I've listed here may only scratch the surface. So, in other words, far easier to cut to the chase and go for liquidation....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 From twitter a few days ago Hit and hope? If he did come back at least he'd benefit from warming a bench that was closer to home WTF afternoon drinking is not good for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfc123 Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 Well I guess that just leaves : £16.8m to CSI £16m to Baker Tilley for the old CVA £1.8m to HMRC £1.8m to the players and staff. £3 or £4m??? to Gaydamak Plus ongoing costs of circa £2.6m per month ALONE for wages, NI and TAX!!! So, not a lot then, and certainly makes the club MUCH more saleable than it was Looks like you'll be alright after all....... Yes, I think you're right. Forget Gaydamak because his debt isn't secured. If the judge was correct today when stating that there was no evidence of a legitimate debenture for Chinny's £17m, that's his money gone too. The existing CVA is covered by the remaining parachute payments with £6m left over. As long as the CVA is exited on time the payments can be deferred to service more pressing outstanding debt, e.g the £1.6m to HMRC, players and staff wages, and the other utility debts, electric, gas etc + the ongoing running costs of £2.6m PCM. So if a couple of orange faced guys with surfboards just happened to suddenly be allowed to negotiate a purchase, and they offered say £5m for the club and agreed in writing to service the existing CVA and pay off HMRC and the staff/player salaries, the administrator as the only effective shareholder now has the power to say "sign here please, sorry everyone, this is the best offer." IF this is correct, PFC has suddenly become a very cheap buy for someone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 Get voting guys http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/drivetime/blog/2012-02-17/poll-ten-points-enough-deduction-portsmouth-entering-administration Just voted a big NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 Yes, I think you're right. Forget Gaydamak because his debt isn't secured. If the judge was correct today when stating that there was no evidence of a legitimate debenture for Chinny's £17m, that's his money gone too. The existing CVA is covered by the remaining parachute payments with £6m left over. As long as the CVA is exited on time the payments can be deferred to service more pressing outstanding debt, e.g the £1.6m to HMRC, players and staff wages, and the other utility debts, electric, gas etc + the ongoing running costs of £2.6m PCM. So if a couple of orange faced guys with surfboards just happened to suddenly be allowed to negotiate a purchase, and they offered say £5m for the club and agreed in writing to service the existing CVA and pay off HMRC and the staff/player salaries, the administrator as the only effective shareholder now has the power to say "sign here please, sorry everyone, this is the best offer." IF this is correct, PFC has suddenly become a very cheap buy for someone... PFC has always been cheap but play acting expensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 WTF afternoon drinking is not good for you He's just old and senile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jones91 Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 As Forest are playing Coventry tomoz is basically -13 points, well at least -11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 OK, as far as I know, Norris never said that Chinny's debenture was invalid - I thought I'd missed something. As for the validity of CSI's claim which someone questioned above - one of the concessions offered by the PFC directors in return for having UHY appointed as Administrators was that CSI would decline to sit on the creditors committee. This was offered to reduce the severity of the conflict of interest for UHY being admin of CSI and PFC. Given that, there's little doubt the UHY and the court consider their claim invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterside.saint Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 Get voting guys http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/drivetime/blog/2012-02-17/poll-ten-points-enough-deduction-portsmouth-entering-administration Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 (edited) Sorry, when did the judge say there was no evidence to support Chanrai's claim on the debenture? I've missed this news... This is how it was reported by a Pompey fan from the court... "Judge says chainrai was given debenture but no evidence why " http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?14620-Pompey-Takeover-Saga&p=1276891#post1276891 Edited 17 February, 2012 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 Done Ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 OK, as far as I know, Norris never said that Chinny's debenture was invalid - I thought I'd missed something. . See re-post above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Red Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 (edited) This is my prediction for the future of PFC Only one person shows any interest in buying PFC. He is a Honk Kong businessman going by the name of Channrai (sp?) Apparently he already owns the deeds to the ground so PKF do a deal with him. PFC are then shafted for the next 2 years by a rather spiteful owner. He pockets the last 2 parachute payments, sticks 2 fingers up at Baker Tilley and liquidates the corpse that was once PFC, with them freshly relegated to the conference anyway. No one has to switch off the lights because the power was already cut off. Edited 17 February, 2012 by Winchester Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 Get voting guys http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/drivetime/blog/2012-02-17/poll-ten-points-enough-deduction-portsmouth-entering-administration Adrian Durham tearing into Pompey as we speak. "Portsmouth have cheated yet again". I've always liked Durham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Saint Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 Adrian Durham tearing into Pompey as we speak. "Portsmouth have cheated yet again". I've always liked Durham. I just started listening too. I'm liking his use of the cheat word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holepuncture Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 So then, how much of the total debt is now secured bearing in mind the judge said there was no evidence to support Chainrai's claim to a £17m debenture? Chinnys £17m has always been suspect but unfortunately for you AA has the debt written down in his legally binding CVA and he has it secured. Chinnys position is as strong as ever. As is Gadymacks. Chinny has a fixed and floating charge over Fratton Park, that is a secured debt and it aint going nowhere... Chinny may not have have his puppet fudging the administration but he still has you over a barrel. In his own words 'i am secured, whatever happens i am going to get my money back' So Birchs first major problem here will be finding a mug to pay £17m for a crumbling liability of a stadium... until that happens, Chinny will be in control. You either pay the pair of them off in cold hard cash or continue to pay Sasha £6k a week for the car park and however much Chinny wants to let the ground to you. Happy days! But doesn't the ownership change when in admin? I thought the shares became worthless? Shares yes, secured debt no! Fixed and floating charges on the skates assets... Chinny and Gadymack own the lot; lock, stock and barrel. They will be celebrating in the streets of Portsea this evening but there will be one mighty hangover when they realise the only people this latest administration will screw over are the UK tax payer, local businesses and their non-playing staff... F*cking PMSL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 IF this is correct, PFC has suddenly become a very cheap buy for someone... What, you mean even Mr Cala or Big Ron's Leatherware could afford to buy them now....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 "These steps are the only surviving parts of this much-missed football stadium" A look into the future perhaps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 (edited) A court can reverse previous transactions (such as the debenture) if they are shown to be fraudulent or baseless. Edited 17 February, 2012 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony13579 Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 http://www.pompeytrust.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=373:pst-statement-170212&catid=34:demo-category POMPEY SUPPORTERS TRUST STATEMENT ON PORTSMOUTH FOOTBALL CLUB ENTERING ADMINISTRATION Following the decision from Judge Alistair Norris to allow Portsmouth Football Club to enter Administration the PST will seek to meet with the Administrators from PKF, Brian Jackson and Trevor Birch, as soon as possible to discuss the way forward. The Judge, in making his decision, has stood up for local and small business' that have been badly affected by successive Administrations. We are pleased that PKF have been appointed as they have a proven track record of successfully working with football clubs in trouble. Penny Mordaunt wrote to HMRC asking them to oppose UHY as Administrators this time round, this is what she had to say and in particular about the PST. "It is vital that the administrator appointed makes use of all the opportunities to provide the maximum return to creditors, including HMRC. This must include engagement with the Pompey Supporters’ Trust and the wider community. PST, ably supported by Supporters Direct, has much to offer: it has built a huge network of support and it has the capacity to rapidly survey its contacts in order to raising funds for a community buy-out. At other clubs supporters’ trust members have volunteered to fulfil roles vacated by staff so that games can proceed and revenue is not lost. I have no confidence that UHY Hacker Young would properly or genuinely work with the Trust. This has been demonstrated by UHY Hacker Young’s refusal to allow the Trust access to the Club’s financial information to enable it to prepare a bid to buy a stake in the Club unless it could demonstrate that it had access to £100m." The PST believe that the time has come for Portsmouth Football Club to be owned by the City and Community, and a new model of ownership should be developed which will make sure the shameful events of the past few years are not repeated. Pompey fans never want to see their club in court in these circumstances again. ENDS TSW must have a meeting too. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 Chinnys £17m has always been suspect but unfortunately for you AA has the debt written down in his legally binding CVA and he has it secured. Chinnys position is as strong as ever. As is Gadymacks. Chinny has a fixed and floating charge over Fratton Park, that is a secured debt and it aint going nowhere... Chinny may not have have his puppet fudging the administration but he still has you over a barrel. In his own words 'i am secured, whatever happens i am going to get my money back' So Birchs first major problem here will be finding a mug to pay £17m for a crumbling liability of a stadium... until that happens, Chinny will be in control. You either pay the pair of them off in cold hard cash or continue to pay Sasha £6k a week for the car park and however much Chinny wants to let the ground to you. Happy days! Shares yes, secured debt no! Fixed and floating charges on the skates assets... Chinny and Gadymack own the lot; lock, stock and barrel. They will be celebrating in the streets of Portsea this evening but there will be one mighty hangover when they realise the only people this latest administration will screw over are the UK tax payer, local businesses and their non-playing staff... F*cking PMSL what i was trying to say but so much better put Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 He's just old and senile. Thats what happens when you hit 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 Chinnys £17m has always been suspect but unfortunately for you AA has the debt written down in his legally binding CVA and he has it secured. Chinnys position is as strong as ever. As is Gadymacks. Chinny has a fixed and floating charge over Fratton Park, that is a secured debt and it aint going nowhere... Chinny may not have have his puppet fudging the administration but he still has you over a barrel. In his own words 'i am secured, whatever happens i am going to get my money back' So Birchs first major problem here will be finding a mug to pay £17m for a crumbling liability of a stadium... until that happens, Chinny will be in control. You either pay the pair of them off in cold hard cash or continue to pay Sasha £6k a week for the car park and however much Chinny wants to let the ground to you. Happy days! Here's a thought.....Could Chainrai technically prevent Portsmouth Football Club (2010) gaining access to "his" football ground from here on in if he so desired....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 "These steps are the only surviving parts of this much-missed football stadium" A look into the future perhaps Thats almost what Fratton Park looks like now, let alone in 5 years time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 What I don't quite get is the existing CVA and how (or even if) that will now be paid? I mean that bagso****e down the road have gone into admin again without paying one penny of the CVA - does this not send a message that if you want to avoid paying an agreed CVA then jus go into admin - thats assuming this admin wipes out the old CVA? Confused I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 A livid Bristol City fan now on TalkSport. Durham now praising how Southampton handled their administration....cut their cloth...got relegated....re-grouped and came back up healthier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_in_munich Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 Shall we point Durham to this thread?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 Shall we point Durham to this thread?? Go for it :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 Here's a thought.....Could Chainrai technically prevent Portsmouth Football Club (2010) gaining access to "his" football ground from here on in if he so desired....? No. The "asset" () is still on the books of the football club, Chainrai simply holds security over it. I guess he might have been able to do something like that before they went into administration, but they're now offered protection from creditors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 Voted, needs a tread of its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 PFC own Fratton Park. It is registered to them but has a charge on it. PFC wouldn't have to pay rent but would have to pay interest/repayments I presume. BC/Portpin are just creditors and the administrator controls FP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Red Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 Leyton Orient director now on Talksh*te considers Pompey should be relegated. It's not only us PTS folk watching the next FL decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 Well that only took 45 mins to catch up... Some thoughts; Trousers, I think you will be dancing around Waterloo when the points deduction gets announced. Patently obvious this isn't the standard minus ten o rthey would already be in place. Chinny, you've been shot, but it's a just a graze, regroup and come back stronger..... 17 million in cash now or lock the gates and don't let them play there anymore. Appless Andy _ I am going to miss you my friend, from the total ******** through to the stuttering gaffs. ....disappointed he didnt speak to the press afterwards, he alwasy seemed very pleased to see them....oh and andy can I have your autograph :) Mr Birch - A very warm welcome, I get the feeling we'll get to know you quite well Pompey supporters trust - Don't sever connections with moneyfields just yet I like Friday's :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 Plenty of fans from other football clubs on TalkSport "getting it" and slagging off Pompey for not cutting their cloth. Shame it's taken 2 years for the penny (pun intended) to drop. Matt Porter (CEO Leyton Orient) now on, saying pretty much the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 Plenty of fans from other football clubs on TalkSport "getting it" and slagging off Pompey for not cutting their cloth. Shame it's taken 2 years for the penny (pun intended) to drop. Matt Porter (CEO Leyton Orient) now on saying pretty much the same thing. heard that...they really do need to be relegated..but how could that happen in real life..? they get relegated 1 division from their finishing position this season....so if they finish bottom 3 this season then league 2 it is..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 This is how it was reported by a Pompey fan from the court... "Judge says chainrai was given debenture but no evidence why " http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?14620-Pompey-Takeover-Saga&p=1276891#post1276891 He didn't rule it invalid, FFS. Even if he believed it to be, the validity would be tested in the relevant court, sometime in the future. If the few think this has been done, they really are in for a shock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 R "These steps are the only surviving parts of this much-missed football stadium" A look into the future perhaps What ground was that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Balls Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 I'm sure this might be on this tread somewhere already but no time to check. TalkSport doing a poll asking if a 10 point deduction is enough for Pompey. Get voting no. It's 62% no at the moment http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/drivetime/blog/2012-02-17/poll-ten-points-enough-deduction-portsmouth-entering-administration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 do not usually like Durham on Talksport but just dropped youngest lad at Swanwick station and listened to Talksport, he is spot on with his feelings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidthesquid Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 I'm sure this might be on this tread somewhere already but no time to check. TalkSport doing a poll asking if a 10 point deduction is enough for Pompey. Get voting no. It's 62% no at the moment http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/drivetime/blog/2012-02-17/poll-ten-points-enough-deduction-portsmouth-entering-administration We've done our bit, but suspect we are not alone in believing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Red Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 do not usually like Durham on Talksport but just dropped youngest lad at Swanwick station and listened to Talksport' date=' he is spot on with his feelings[/quote'] This ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifelongsaint83 Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 I have wasted many many hours of my life following this thread day and night. I must say its time very well spent! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 February, 2012 Share Posted 17 February, 2012 quality. Durham is basically saying pompey fans should just man up and take the punishment...they were all happy to lord it about celebrate winning the FA Cup when they blatantly could not afford it..happy to pay their way and get in the prem for a few seasons...now they have to take the rough with the smooth they have and get on with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts