Pompey Takeover Saga

[hutch]

Just finished catching up after a couple of days away. The shift away from Proudman's "rubber-stamping lots of applications" Court to Chuck Norris's "let's have a proper trial and examine all the facts" Court is very significant. I'm still not totally convinced that Chainrai want's admin. I see it as very significant that there appears to have been no application for a Validation Order. Could it be that Chainrai doesn't want Lampitt to get his hands on "his" cash in the bank account pre-liquidation?

 

And a couple of thoughts on Fowllyd's post (and the later one in the same vein):

 

No. The first winding-up petition was heard by Mrs Justice Derrett; she had scathing words for Pompey, saying they appeared to be trading whilst insolvent among other things, but stopped short of winding them up. No doubt the level of defence they mustered (how many winding-up cases get defended at all, do you think?) swayed her; anyhow, she asked for a full statement of financial affairs to be presented two weeks later. This never happened, as Chainrai put them into administration first.

 

HMRC contested the choice of UHY, and in particular of Andronikou, as administrator, claiming there was a link between him and Chainrai. They may also have queried Pompey's ability to trade solvently during administration. This was heard by Justice Norris, who acknowledged that there were concerns and scheduled a second hearing two weeks later (always seems to be two weeks, doesn't it?). This never happened as HMRC dropped its challenge after receiving assurances over funding and also a meeting with Andronikou.

 

Justice Mann (Mr not Mrs) heard HMRC's case contesting the CVA in the summer of 2010. HMRC presented their case appallingly badly, and Mann never seemed to quite get what their objection was. He ruled against HMRC and the rest is history.

Firstly, in the age-old tradition of pedantry on this forum, Christine Derrett is, as I recall, a Registrar not a Justice

 

And, concerning HMRC, two observations:

 

While it appeared to many at the time that HMRC did present their case badly in August 2010, I tend to see it that HMRC were not focussed on a pin-point attack on PFC and their particular CVA at that time, but approached the issue from the perspective of their wider attack on the Football Creditor's Rule as a whole, which has now been heard but judgement not yet pronounced. Time will tell whether they were right or wrong in terms of the Revenue's ability to collect money from bankrupt football clubs.

 

And on the original challenge to the appointment of AA before Norris in March 2010, as you rightly say that challenge was withdrawn before final hearing in Court, following some sort of "agreement" reached between HMRC & UHY. We don't know the details of that agreement, but we do know that, amongst other things, it led to the rejection of AA's appointment as liquidator of the old PFC Company, and the appointment of HMRC's preferred candidate Baker Tilley instead. That appointment is hurting PFC badly now, and significantly strengthens HMRC's hand.

 

I think HMRC are playing a long game against football clubs in general and the FCR in particular, and PFC are just one pawn in that bigger game.

[Ampersound]

No wonder money penny has been quiet the last few days. This could be a fun twist

[trousers]

Assuming they get approval to enter administration, I can't work out what will have the greatest entertainment value....

 

(a) AA appointed against the wishes of Money Penny, Portsmouth Council and the bestest ™ fans in the world

 

Or

 

(b) a different administrator appointed who then has to go into battle with AA and Chainrai

 

It's too close to call IMO

[Brizzie Saints]

Assuming they get approval to enter administration, I can't work out what will have the greatest entertainment value....

 

(a) AA appointed against the wishes of Money Penny, Portsmouth Council and the bestest ™ fans in the world

 

Or

 

(b) a different administrator appointed who then has to go into battle with AA and Chainrai

 

It's too close to call IMO

Which ever way it goes its gonna be hysterical. Cant really see anything other than a win-win for us, its now 6pm in brissie, gonna be a late night tonight but theres no way i'm going to bed until its over, its like xmas eve all over again

[trousers]

Which ever way it goes its gonna be hysterical. Cant really see anything other than a win-win for us, its now 6pm in brissie, gonna be a late night tonight but theres no way i'm going to bed until its over, its like xmas eve all over again

 

Ah, yes, Christmas Eve.... I hope we all wrote to Santa and asked him for a gift that keeps on giving...

[St Chalet]

As someone who knows Penny from my University days she is a smart cookie.

 

As I recall she was image savvy and I'd say she modelled herself on Margaret Thatcher, she doesn't take **** from plebs.

 

Ergo she clearly sees the saving of PFC as her Falklands. In essence, strategically worthless but good for a re-election campaign.

[alehouseboys]

 

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny

of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through

the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will

strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and

destroy my brothers. And you will know I am The Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

[Merovingian]

With regards to pfc fans still being in denial etc, I think you need to remember most people on forums are morons and are totally deluded. You have your fair share on here as we do. Most of the fans I know realise what's been happening and have disassociated ourselves with the club in effect.

 

Most think at the minimum we should be relegated with a hefty points deduction and to start living within our means by shedding players and having people off a Sunday league park if that's how it has to be.

 

As for Lampitt and Handy Andy - there is no doubt in my mind Lampitt was not given a choice in putting forward UHY as the preferred option, however it was presented.

 

I personally hope the court deny admin, the less that scum chainrai gets the better. Rather see the club go to the wall and have plan B than see that C*** get anything back.

[trousers]

As someone who knows Penny from my University days

 

Rule 1...?

[dubai_phil]

[Brizzie Saints]

With regards to pfc fans still being in denial etc, I think you need to remember most people on forums are morons and are totally deluded. You have your fair share on here as we do. Most of the fans I know realise what's been happening and have disassociated ourselves with the club in effect.

 

Most think at the minimum we should be relegated with a hefty points deduction and to start living within our means by shedding players and having people off a Sunday league park if that's how it has to be.

 

As for Lampitt and Handy Andy - there is no doubt in my mind Lampitt was not given a choice in putting forward UHY as the preferred option, however it was presented.

 

I personally hope the court deny admin, the less that scum chainrai gets the better. Rather see the club go to the wall and have plan B than see that C*** get anything back.

 

At last......a skate with the blinkers off, sorry that its come to this, but good luck with the future, wotever that may be.

[trousers]

...

[dubai_phil]

With regards to pfc fans still being in denial etc, I think you need to remember most people on forums are morons and are totally deluded. You have your fair share on here as we do. Most of the fans I know realise what's been happening and have disassociated ourselves with the club in effect.

 

Most think at the minimum we should be relegated with a hefty points deduction and to start living within our means by shedding players and having people off a Sunday league park if that's how it has to be.

 

As for Lampitt and Handy Andy - there is no doubt in my mind Lampitt was not given a choice in putting forward UHY as the preferred option, however it was presented.

 

I personally hope the court deny admin, the less that scum chainrai gets the better. Rather see the club go to the wall and have plan B than see that C*** get anything back.

 

Pretty much the thoughts of my mates back in Salisbury.

 

IMHO you (real) fans have only made one mistake in this whole affair.

 

You should have started Plan B the first time around, you'd have been getting close to being one step back up the ladder by now, but then we'd have lost a small part of our moral high ground and hence Entertainment value.

 

Also while some like you have seen the light recently, it's a shame that there did not appear to be many letters to the press or MP's in protest about being owned by a Child Maimer's stooge living on borrowed money (Standard Bank) even back then

[trousers]

With regards to pfc fans still being in denial etc, I think you need to remember most people on forums are morons and are totally deluded. You have your fair share on here as we do. Most of the fans I know realise what's been happening and have disassociated ourselves with the club in effect.

 

Most think at the minimum we should be relegated with a hefty points deduction and to start living within our means by shedding players and having people off a Sunday league park if that's how it has to be.

 

As for Lampitt and Handy Andy - there is no doubt in my mind Lampitt was not given a choice in putting forward UHY as the preferred option, however it was presented.

 

I personally hope the court deny admin, the less that scum chainrai gets the better. Rather see the club go to the wall and have plan B than see that C*** get anything back.

 

Fair play, but if there are lots of fans who 'get it' and as such believe that Administration is simply prolonging the agony, why are a Portsmouth MP and Portsmouth Council hell bent on administration?

 

Is the fan base divided or are they (the politicians) simply playing the wider (self) interest card?

 

I assume pragmatic fans such as yourself have been filling up Money Penny's inbox (so to speak)?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

With regards to pfc fans still being in denial etc, I think you need to remember most people on forums are morons and are totally deluded. You have your fair share on here as we do. Most of the fans I know realise what's been happening and have disassociated ourselves with the club in effect.

 

Most think at the minimum we should be relegated with a hefty points deduction and to start living within our means by shedding players and having people off a Sunday league park if that's how it has to be.

 

As for Lampitt and Handy Andy - there is no doubt in my mind Lampitt was not given a choice in putting forward UHY as the preferred option, however it was presented.

 

I personally hope the court deny admin, the less that scum chainrai gets the better. Rather see the club go to the wall and have plan B than see that C*** get anything back.

 

Your voice shines out like a shaft of gold when all around is dark.

 

A proper fan who realises that he has lost the club he grew to love.

 

Hope springs eternal and you will be able to follow, and love, a decently run club.

 

I really don't know how the rest of the 200,000, who packed your common, are going to live.... err sorry, 14,329.

 

Good luck after Admin/Liquidation.

[alehouseboys]

As someone who knows Penny from my University days...

 

Rule 1...?

 

She's got her knockers but hey...

 

[trousers]

She's got her knockers but hey...

 

 

FFS! I'm still eating my porridge!

[Danish Saint]

Just spoke to a Pompey-supporting mate of mine (seems we all have at least one) and he said: "We're dead!"

[trousers]

Just spoke to a Pompey-supporting mate of mine (seems we all have at least one) and he said: "We're dead!"

 

Was that just his own opinion or is he bestest friends with the kit man's son?

[Torres]

Surely their only hope of convincing the court that they could survive through Admin was for Chanrai to again commit to fund it (regardless of whether he actually went on to do so or not) as nobody, nobody, isn't going to put a single penny into them from today onwards. The much talked about cash in the bank will just about get them into next week if they're allowed access to it.

 

If HMRC, MoneyPenny and Chums block the appointment of Chinny's favourite Insolvency Practioners, he's definitely not going to fund their admin.

 

Has PrettyPenny just done an about turn and, rather than trying to save PFC2010, just stuck the knife into them to hurry along AFC Pompey?

[Torres]

And can I just say that whatever happens, I'd like to put rivalry aside for a second and wish the likes of Mero the best of luck. He's just a normal football fan like most of us, albeit with appaling taste, rather than a frothing, deluded, cheating moron and he deserves a club of some form to support.

[Verbal]

Just spoke to a Pompey-supporting mate of mine (seems we all have at least one) and he said: "We're dead!"

 

Corpse Ho?

[70's Mike]

Surely their only hope of convincing the court that they could survive through Admin was for Chanrai to again commit to fund it (regardless of whether he actually went on to do so or not) as nobody, nobody, isn't going to put a single penny into them from today onwards. The much talked about cash in the bank will just about get them into next week if they're allowed access to it.

 

If HMRC, MoneyPenny and Chums block the appointment of Chinny's favourite Insolvency Practioners, he's definitely not going to fund their admin.

 

Has PrettyPenny just done an about turn and, rather than trying to save PFC2010, just stuck the knife into them to hurry along AFC Pompey?

 

my thoughts as well

it is all very well opposing everything but they have reached the point where it is about who is putting up the cash and when

[Danish Saint]

That was his own opinion, but then again, he's been isolated from the mayhem that is Portsmouth for quite some years now here in Norway.

[ooh it's a corner]

So if HMRC are challenging UHY appointment and they win, presumably Baker Tilly become the administrators.

 

At that point, I think the acid test is how much value will they place on PFC assets?

 

I think football/accounting practice allows you to value playing staff on a basis of what you paid for them, depreciated in a straight line over the course of their contract, so anyone want to do the homework on what they paid for their current squad (shouldn't take long, it's the smallest squad in the league....)

 

What else have they got, ground + goodwill + debtors + cash in bank ?

 

I just can't see this little lot being greater than the £50m+ that we can find as creditors.

 

So, if Baker Tilly is appointed, surely they will admit insolvency on both counts (cash flow and net assets) and shut the door?

 

Portsmouth City Council and Miss (lackofmoney) Penny haven't thought this through have they?

 

Or is this a case of damned if they do (appoint UHY) and damned if they don't?

[trousers]

So if HMRC are challenging UHY appointment and they win, presumably Baker Tilly become the administrators.

 

At that point, I think the acid test is how much value will they place on PFC assets?

 

I think football/accounting practice allows you to value playing staff on a basis of what you paid for them, depreciated in a straight line over the course of their contract, so anyone want to do the homework on what they paid for their current squad (shouldn't take long, it's the smallest squad in the league....)

 

What else have they got, ground + goodwill + debtors + cash in bank ?

 

I just can't see this little lot being greater than the £50m+ that we can find as creditors.

 

So, if Baker Tilly is appointed, surely they will admit insolvency on both counts (cash flow and net assets) and shut the door?

 

Portsmouth City Council and Miss (lackofmoney) Penny haven't thought this through have they?

 

Or is this a case of damned if they do (appoint UHY) and damned if they don't?

 

Maybe, just maybe, they HAVE resigned themselves to the 'liquidate and start again' scenario BUT they know that if AA gets the gig he and Chainrai will simply play things out exactly the same way as last time which will put Pompey back yet another 2 years.

 

So, PERHAPS, their game plan is to appoint Tilly Baker as a means to an end...?

 

Who knows?!

 

(edit: just seen others have come to a similar conclusion above)

[Torres]

This will go 1 of 3 ways over the next couple of weeks:

 

1 - Admin refused, Winding Up Order on Monday. Good news.

 

2 - Admin granted, UHY appointed. Good news, as AA will bleed every penny out of them that he possibly can to satisfy Chinny.

 

3 - Admin granted, UHY not appointed in favour of BT or some other reputable IP. They admit insolvency.

 

I say it will play our over the next couple of weeks as I can easily see today's hearing taking a similar path to the last one, with PFC making all sorts of outlandish claims about their assets, which are then challenged, and a request for a more thorough SoA then made by Justice Norris. PFC then have another date for their diaries in early March.

[dubai_phil]

So if HMRC are challenging UHY appointment and they win, presumably Baker Tilly become the administrators.

 

At that point, I think the acid test is how much value will they place on PFC assets?

 

I think football/accounting practice allows you to value playing staff on a basis of what you paid for them, depreciated in a straight line over the course of their contract, so anyone want to do the homework on what they paid for their current squad (shouldn't take long, it's the smallest squad in the league....)

 

What else have they got, ground + goodwill + debtors + cash in bank ?

 

I just can't see this little lot being greater than the £50m+ that we can find as creditors.

 

So, if Baker Tilly is appointed, surely they will admit insolvency on both counts (cash flow and net assets) and shut the door?

 

Portsmouth City Council and Miss (lackofmoney) Penny haven't thought this through have they?

 

Or is this a case of damned if they do (appoint UHY) and damned if they don't?

 

From where we sit on the outside, this seems totally logical.

 

So if we then go back to the Facebook comments from the Jobsite Corporate Box of a couple of days ago where Lumpitt is alleged to have said they are dead :But they will keep on fighting", that makes the request for the UHY appointment appear to be their last minute Hail Mary Pass to buy some more time.

 

You know what? The way this ridiculous story has twisted and turned you can really see poopey council & Penny standing in front of Microphones on Sky later on saying...

 

No but we were trying to SAVE the club, it wasn't OUR fault that our actions were what caused the final death.

 

Probably followed by The FL/Government must do something, we're going to apppeal, we're going to..... Amarillo

[dubai_phil]

Maybe, just maybe, they HAVE resigned themselves to the 'liquidate and start again' scenario BUT they know that if AA gets the gig he and Chainrai will simply play things out exactly the same way as last time which will put Pompey back yet another 2 years.

 

So, PERHAPS, their game plan is to appoint Tilly Baker as a means to an end...?

 

Who knows?!

 

Jeez, James Blunt fans AND reading the same possibility into the situation....

[skintsaint]

[trousers]

Jeez, James Blunt fans AND reading the same possibility into the situation....

 

And Bobby Davro underpants for the hattrick per chance?

[jawillwill]

You can't liquidate Judge Norris. He liquidates you.

[jawillwill]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17067079 can't he get it free on the NHS?

[Torres]

For all you twitters - @pompeytoaster

[Seaford Saint]

With regards to pfc fans still being in denial etc, I think you need to remember most people on forums are morons and are totally deluded. You have your fair share on here as we do. Most of the fans I know realise what's been happening and have disassociated ourselves with the club in effect.

 

Most think at the minimum we should be relegated with a hefty points deduction and to start living within our means by shedding players and having people off a Sunday league park if that's how it has to be.

 

As for Lampitt and Handy Andy - there is no doubt in my mind Lampitt was not given a choice in putting forward UHY as the preferred option, however it was presented.

 

I personally hope the court deny admin, the less that scum chainrai gets the better. Rather see the club go to the wall and have plan B than see that C*** get anything back.

 

You have my sympathy mate. I know a few Pompey fans through work and extended family. They all share the same views as you. You are right to conclude that most fans on forums are morons. We had some fans calling for our manager's head the other week after some not so good results. Most normal fans don't post on the forums any more...I rarely do these days. Hopefully a new club will emerge from this mess.

[trousers]

For all you twitters - @pompeytoaster

 

Getting: "no results for @pompeytoaster"

[saint_jas]

Oh I do hope admin gets rejected today.

[angelman]

With regards to the challenge about AA being appointed, surely if UHY are admin for CSI the parent company, it would make sense to do PFC as well? I know that they are supposed to be separate entities but no one is falling for that. But I can't quite see where the conflict of interests are, save for being Chin's little poodle.

[trousers]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/02/17/celtic-boss-neil-lennon-will-want-to-win-spl-by-more-than-10-points-says-ex-star-86908-23754333/

 

Ramon Vega finds it difficult to comprehend how such a huge organisation could be so badly run and insists this should never have been allowed to happen.

He said: “The situation has been coming for months and potentially years. But I am still surprised. We are not talking about a small club here. We are taking about an institution with millions of fans worldwide. Something has gone badly wrong in terms of managing the financial side of things especially when you consider their annual turnover."

“This isn’t the same as Portsmouth who are a small club with a small fan base and over-exposed themselves when they were in the Premiership."

“I can understand a club like that going into administration but I am extremely surprised it has happened with Rangers given there are 50,000 supporters who go to Ibrox.”

 

[PaulSaint]

He started the mess at Portsmouth, isn't he a bit late to do the same in Scotland?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17072133

[sussexsaint]

Oh I do hope admin gets rejected today.

 

Much as I agree I really don't think it will

 

My prediction - a painfully short hearing with admin being granted and AA appointed as Administrator

[trousers]

BBC Radio Solent @BBCRadioSolent

NEWS - Peter Storrie tells @BBCRadioSolent that he's been advising potential buyers of Portsmouth Football Club. #Pompey

[Kingsland Red]

Ooerr - Seems Penny is challenging AA as administrator !!??

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/challenge_to_andronikou_as_pompey_administrator_1_3531718

[trousers]

Ooerr - Seems Penny is challenging AA as administrator !!??

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/challenge_to_andronikou_as_pompey_administrator_1_3531718

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?14620-Pompey-Takeover-Saga&p=1276319#post1276319

[Chin Strain]

Much as I agree I really don't think it will

 

My prediction - a painfully short hearing with admin being granted and AA appointed as Administrator

 

But somebody, somewhere needs to find the cash to fund admin. It's not just a case of 'yes you can go into admin, off you go'.

 

This completely and totally hinges on whether the PL will give them the next parachute payment.....which would then be tantamount to stuffing the previous creditors. This is where it's going to get complicated, and I assume then the previous creditors have options available to them.....but I'm not entirely sure what they are.

[Saint in Paradise]

Anyone have any idea what time we will hear the result please? As I post this it is 22.17 NZ time 09.17 UK time,

and I have to go out to collect my wife who is at work. I will be home by 23.30 and should go to bed but could

stay up an hour.

[Chin Strain]

I can't see that appointing different administrators is going to help in any way whatsoever (if the aim is for PFC to survive).

[trousers]

More woe....Now they've had their Sky statelite subscription terminated....

 

Sky’s not the limit as Pompey problems bite deep

Pompey's threadbare squad in training yesterday Picture: Robin Jones

 

By Neil Allen

The Sky cameras couldn’t have chosen a more ironic occasion for a rare Pompey visit.

Michael Appleton on Sky Sports talking candidly about the club’s latest woes.

 

Except, the satellite channel is no longer broadcast at the training ground having been cut off earlier this week.

It’s the first of many cut backs as the club staggers towards administration.

Elsewhere, Liam Lawrence’s troubled right leg was outstretched as he sank deep into a chair in the video analysis room.

The extent of the injury remains unclear, with Pompey unable to meet the £400 bill required for a scan.

 

Still, at least training was able to take place at the Wellington Sports Ground earlier in the day.

 

Although, of the 12 who took part in the full session, eight were from the club’s academy. The remaining four were Kanu, Adam Webster, Dave Kitson and Aaron Mokoena.

 

The rest of the squad were either being shielded from potential damage or already damaged

.

Obviously, the numbers were not ideal, then again neither was the playing surface.

 

The groundstaff were unable to tend to the training pitches beforehand after discovering padlocks had been changed on storage containers.

 

Shut inside was equipment such as forks and spades, essential for ground preparation.

Another consequence of being unable to pay the bills.

 

For Appleton, the problems continue to pile high as he looks to focus on football management.

He said: ‘Liam Lawrence has a calf injury. He can’t walk properly.

 

‘How bad is it? I would like to give an exact answer but because we can’t afford to have a scan on his calf, we don’t know the full extent of how bad the injury is.

 

‘Our assets are frozen and I can’t ask for him to pay for it.

 

‘I have seen it happen where players pay to get things done but the lad has not been paid since Christmas.

 

‘Yesterday morning the groundstaff tried to get into the containers at the training ground to get the equipment to get the pitch ready for us.

 

‘There are new locks on the containers, so basically they can’t get into their stuff.

 

‘They can’t get the forks out to flatten the pitch and get it ready.

‘The owners of the containers have done it because we haven’t paid them

.

‘It is one silly example but it effects us because you can’t treat the pitches on a day-to-day basis.

 

‘We were flying to Barnsley until about two weeks ago. Now we are getting the coach up.

‘Everything you can possibly imagine or try to imagine has happened, I can guarantee has happened. That is the best way to dress it up.’

[Brizzie Saints]

Anyone have any idea what time we will hear the result please? As I post this it is 22.17 NZ time 09.17 UK time,

and I have to go out to collect my wife who is at work. I will be home by 23.30 and should go to bed but could

stay up an hour.

dunno but as were 3 hours behin NZ i could text ya the outcome if you cant stay up

[pedg]

Has penny got another administator lined up though? Fine saying another company should be used but they have to agree to take it on.