Pompey Takeover Saga

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

Think he was conned, that could not have been Lumpitt...

 

He is an avid Pompey fan, he would know who DL is.

 

Whilst this is music to my ears - can you verify this information Crouchie? I can imagine Lampitt is drinking a lot right now, but it would be strange for a CEO to speak with such a tone of resignation... old Storrie was as cheerful as ever right up until he left to become a consultant...

 

Nope, only what I have seen on a Facebook status from an avid Pompey fan friend of mine

 

Just read this again.

 

Think a line in here may explain why the FB'er was drinking with Lumpitt and why he spoke so candidly.

 

From that I read this was one of the sponsors "representatives"...

 

Not sure, he may have something to do with Gobsh!te yeah.

 

HMRC tried (unsuccessfully) to pin this one on PFC during the last court case! I think the judge deemed it as being lawful, or certainly ignored it!!

 

I work with a lot of people who used to use EBT's (before they were outlawed in April 2011) and although they flew very close to the wind with what may be classed as tax avoidance my understanding is that they were (just about) legitimate due to loopholes in tax laws. These loopholes were closed April 2011 and subsequently they were outlawed (although now exist in a new format utilising a new loophole in a slightly different way). Other than a couple of smaller EBT schemes a few years ago I havent known of any claw backs from HMRC so do not think they would be pulled up on this one.

[Dark Munster]

Our home match is far too far from the end of the season for us to relegate them that day (assuming they get just the -10).

 

However, it's conceivable that they might still be needing points on the last day of the season. If our league position was secure going into that game, and if Coventry could still overtake the skates... what price a Saints home loss on the final day of the league season?

 

Lots of "ifs" in all that - but non implausible.

 

Saints are preparing a team for that scenario ...

 

[Channon's Sideburns]

How apt given the plucky phew's plight...

 

[pedg]

I work with a lot of people who used to use EBT's (before they were outlawed in April 2011) and although they flew very close to the wind with what may be classed as tax avoidance my understanding is that they were (just about) legitimate due to loopholes in tax laws. These loopholes were closed April 2011 and subsequently they were outlawed (although now exist in a new format utilising a new loophole in a slightly different way). Other than a couple of smaller EBT schemes a few years ago I havent known of any claw backs from HMRC so do not think they would be pulled up on this one.

 

I think as far as the rangers case goes I think HMRC's argument was that they were bending the rules on the use of the EBT's rather than that just that they were EBT's.

[Crab Lungs]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/ward_vows_to_fight_for_fans_1_3521507

 

43

breville

Wednesday, February 15, 2012 at 08:00 PM

Once again, I raise a toast to the brave fans at Fortress Fratton. If we can keep breaking even at 14,000ish and maybe get a few 16,000 gates that will give us enough spare cash to maybe bring in one or two loan signings to help keep us afloat before we start to flounder. I think if we cod get in just one player in time for Saturday it would help big time. The fans last night were brill - we need to raise awareness and the harder we work to make people aware, the more attention we might bring to what a great club we are... I'm not expecting a roe of buyers - even if its just a sole investor to prop us up for the time being until we have found our footing again. As Uncle Avram said, they can take our points bot they can never take our spirit! PUPPPU

 

[andysstuff]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/ward_vows_to_fight_for_fans_1_3521507

 

 

 

 

You missed the name off - Take a bow Breville.

[pedg]

I think as far as the rangers case goes I think HMRC's argument was that they were bending the rules on the use of the EBT's rather than that just that they were EBT's.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/14930737

 

Q: What did they do?

A: Let's deal with the biggest bill first.

Between 2001 and 2010, Rangers paid almost £48m into an Employee Benefit Trust (EBT). A trust is a legal creation that enables somebody to own an asset on behalf of somebody else. The first person is the trustee and the second is the beneficiary. Company pension schemes are a common example of a trust.

With EBTs, an employer pays money into a trust and that money is paid out to the beneficiaries in the form of loans. These loans are not subject to income tax or National Insurance. In fact, most of these trusts are based in offshore tax havens so they are hardly taxed at all.

Anyway, these loans are a bit like the ones you would offer a hard-up friend on a night out - here's £20, pay me back when you can but I'm not going to remember this so don't worry about it. Here, however, is the heart of HMRC's case.

For an EBT to stay on the right side of the avoidance/evasion line, these payments cannot be made on a contractual basis, as that would make them wages and therefore subject to the usual deductions. So they should, on occasion, be postponed and even refused by the trustee, who is, in theory, acting independently of the employer anyway.

HMRC says Rangers' EBT did not work like this and was, for all intents and purposes, a tax scam. It also says it has proof of this in the form of documents and emails between Ibrox's top brass and players' agents. So, last year, an angry taxman hit Rangers with a bill for £35m in unpaid tax and interest and £14m in penalties.

[Jonnyboy]

I see one of reasons they are in admin just scored. I expect Boateng has a fair bit of overpaid laundered money in his off shore account.

[Doctoroncall]

.... On Monday afternoon the directors of Portsmouth Football announced that they have applied for the club to go into administration. The Administrators will be appointed at a court hearing on Friday, assuming the court grants permission. It is expected that the chief Administrator will be Andrew Andronikou of UHY Hacker Young. If granted, the administration will prevent the enactment of HMRC’s winding up petition due to be heard on Monday 20 February. Mr Andronikou is concerned that matters have got this far. I spoke with him and he said that Balram Chainrai made a payment of £250,000 into the club in December on the understanding that there would be player sales in January to keep the club going until a buyer was found. He says that there were 'others within the club' that prevented the sales. It was not down to player choice. He plans to investigate how the sales failed to happen. If those sales had gone ahead the club would not now be facing administration, he said. Mr Andronikou explained that Mr Chainrai stands to lose in terms of both capital and interest on his £17m loan to the club. He said that Chainrai has only ever received two interest payments on the money he initially loaned back in October 2009. Those were £2m from the sale of Kaboul in January 2010 and a payment from CSI during their short ownership of the club. It was a failure to pay the second instalment of the interest on the loan that triggered their administration. Presumably Mr Andronikou also meant that the club will not realise the full amount that Mr Chainrai is owed if sold out of administration. He did say that there were buyers around. When asked if he anticipated any difficulties in the court granting administration he was quite clear that he saw no problems at all in that. He expected HMRC to put up some opposition, but nothing that he could not manage. As to whether there was any conflict of interests in him being Administrator for both CSI and PFC, he said there were none at all. Once the court grants administration on Friday, control will pass from the club’s Directors to the Administrator. Speaking on BBC Radio Solent on Monday, Pompey’s CEO David Lampitt said the decision for administration had been made to protect the club and its creditors, giving them the best possible chance of a decent return. He stated that the administration order will free up the bank account frozen by HMRC’s winding up petition and allow the club to trade more freely. There had been questions as to whether the game against Ipswich could even go ahead due to the club’s inability to pay bills. £1m of early parachute money from the Premier League came into the club’s frozen bank accounts at the end of last week. The account holds about £2m in all – including the gate receipts from the game at Chelsea and the fees from the transfer of Ryan Williams. Mr Lampitt told Radio Solent that before Friday’s court hearing the club would be applying to a separate court for a ‘validation order but of very specific amount to cover specific payments that will make sure we can carry on trading through to the administration.’ Until Friday’s hearing the control of PFC’s bank accounts lies with the club’s Directors, after the hearing control passes from the Directors to the Administrator. As to a potential owner, Mr Lampitt implied there were people out there looking with interest. He was very positive that the club had been on the right track before Mr Antonov’s arrest and the administration of CSI. He said the club is still well worth buying and paid tribute to the support of his staff and the fans. Developments over the next few days could be interesting. The Pompey Supporters Trust hopes to meet with the Administrator in the near future with a view to seeking to bring the fans to the table in the fight to rescue the club. Meanwhile all fans will continue to show what the club means to them in their own particular style. The views of SJ Maskell are their own.

[biondani]

Arghhh the above post needs paragraphs, found it a nightmare to read

 

Ian

[trousers]

I think Admin should bestow Honorary Full Membership on rallyboy as a reward for giving us all so many laughs over the last couple of years.

 

I second that motion. Seriously.

[trousers]

.... On Monday afternoon the directors of Portsmouth Football announced that they have applied for the club to go into administration. The Administrators will be appointed at a court hearing on Friday, assuming the court grants permission. It is expected that the chief Administrator will be Andrew Andronikou of UHY Hacker Young. If granted, the administration will prevent the enactment of HMRC’s winding up petition due to be heard on Monday 20 February. Mr Andronikou is concerned that matters have got this far. I spoke with him and he said that Balram Chainrai made a payment of £250,000 into the club in December on the understanding that there would be player sales in January to keep the club going until a buyer was found. He says that there were 'others within the club' that prevented the sales. It was not down to player choice. He plans to investigate how the sales failed to happen. If those sales had gone ahead the club would not now be facing administration, he said. Mr Andronikou explained that Mr Chainrai stands to lose in terms of both capital and interest on his £17m loan to the club. He said that Chainrai has only ever received two interest payments on the money he initially loaned back in October 2009. Those were £2m from the sale of Kaboul in January 2010 and a payment from CSI during their short ownership of the club. It was a failure to pay the second instalment of the interest on the loan that triggered their administration. Presumably Mr Andronikou also meant that the club will not realise the full amount that Mr Chainrai is owed if sold out of administration. He did say that there were buyers around. When asked if he anticipated any difficulties in the court granting administration he was quite clear that he saw no problems at all in that. He expected HMRC to put up some opposition, but nothing that he could not manage. As to whether there was any conflict of interests in him being Administrator for both CSI and PFC, he said there were none at all. Once the court grants administration on Friday, control will pass from the club’s Directors to the Administrator. Speaking on BBC Radio Solent on Monday, Pompey’s CEO David Lampitt said the decision for administration had been made to protect the club and its creditors, giving them the best possible chance of a decent return. He stated that the administration order will free up the bank account frozen by HMRC’s winding up petition and allow the club to trade more freely. There had been questions as to whether the game against Ipswich could even go ahead due to the club’s inability to pay bills. £1m of early parachute money from the Premier League came into the club’s frozen bank accounts at the end of last week. The account holds about £2m in all – including the gate receipts from the game at Chelsea and the fees from the transfer of Ryan Williams. Mr Lampitt told Radio Solent that before Friday’s court hearing the club would be applying to a separate court for a ‘validation order but of very specific amount to cover specific payments that will make sure we can carry on trading through to the administration.’ Until Friday’s hearing the control of PFC’s bank accounts lies with the club’s Directors, after the hearing control passes from the Directors to the Administrator. As to a potential owner, Mr Lampitt implied there were people out there looking with interest. He was very positive that the club had been on the right track before Mr Antonov’s arrest and the administration of CSI. He said the club is still well worth buying and paid tribute to the support of his staff and the fans. Developments over the next few days could be interesting. The Pompey Supporters Trust hopes to meet with the Administrator in the near future with a view to seeking to bring the fans to the table in the fight to rescue the club. Meanwhile all fans will continue to show what the club means to them in their own particular style. The views of SJ Maskell are their own.

 

Interesting stuff. What publication is that from?

 

The stand-out statement in that for me is: "AA expected HMRC to put up some opposition, but nothing that he could not manage"

 

In other words, he has enough cards up his sleeve and slight of hand to keep HMRC at bay.

 

No surprise that AA feels HMRC don't have the wherewithal to outwit him.

 

And I very must suspect he's right.

[Dark Munster]

so the poor league and the bestest fans were cruelly conned by Vlad's handwritten bank guarantees on the back of an envelope??

Well no other f0cker was fooled by him.

I expect even Ho's ITK mate (belated happy bday by the way) that he sees socially every few weeks even sussed him out fairly quick, even the idiot boy son-of-the-kitman must have seen through him.

It took ten seconds on Google, let alone a chat with the FSA and the FBI.

No excuse there, next!

 

With all the criminality and lies that still surround the club it's not even been an issue that the current team and the first half of the season were funded by money stolen from pensioners and 'cleaned' for organised crime - any normal club would be horrified at that link, but that's small fry in their list of crimes, doesn't even warrant a mention.

The season only hit trouble when the filthy cash dried up.

 

Lampitt denying any involvement in the current crisis?

He's got the business acumen of Peter Storrie on LSD, and he'll be living in Rosie's holiday kennel pretty soon.

The bonkers Q over Q approach David - does it ring a bell?

Do you remember the pay way too much for players no one else wants and cross your fingers for a frickin miracle approach?....idiot.

 

The current crisis is clearly self-inflicted.

 

Inviting criminals into the boardroom, playing fantasy football with real money that belongs to other people and moaning like Tiny Tears when it all goes wrong?

It's b0llox.

 

We can be repetitive on here and go round in circles sometimes but the lies currently eminating from the east as a smokescreen are ridiculous.

Saints owe big money to the taxman, nazi tank drivers, 13,000 free tickets at SMS -YAWN, YAWN, YAWN.

 

As for Ho's trolling on squad numbers, I can understand if the success of your work involves you having to think like an eight year old, but leave that persona at work or people will think you are a little bit special.

 

Let's cut the cr4p.

They are in a hole because of their own mismanagement.

Not because a criminal turned out to be a criminal, or any of that other stuff designed to confuse matters.

 

The charge - Overspending in an attempt to gain a sporting advantage.

GUILTY, take them down.

 

Next case.....

 

Nice one rallyboy. Another post to go into the PTS Greatest Hits compilation when this is all done and dusted.

 

Now if HMRC can choose a QC who is this time slightly more competent than the teaboy or a toy salesman, maybe, just maybe, he or she can actually convey some of the above in court, and get the cesspit closed down once and for all.

 

The Cheats FC-expunged table looks very tasty. Talk about killing 2 fish with one stone.

[Gorgiesaint]

Hmm interesting article on the problems that Rangers are having, these quotes struck a chord

 

Steven Morrow, senior lecturer in sport finance at Stirling University, said: "If there is evidence of a prior relationship between those involved in an administrative capacity and the directors of Rangers Football Club, then I think that would raise concerns among some of the creditors.

This is because the role of the administrator is to be independent, to look after the interests of all the creditors, not to be seen to have any particular interest in one group of creditors.

"Their job is to try to make sure the organisation is a going concern but protect the interests of all creditors and that's what the process is about."

 

Had they not said Rangers would anyone of known which club they were talking about?

[Gorgiesaint]

Oops forgot the link...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-17049723

[Dark Munster]

I think Admin should bestow Honorary Full Membership on rallyboy as a reward for giving us all so many laughs over the last couple of years.

 

As nice a gesture as that would be, I think he prefers going for quality over quantity.

[pedg]

Any one know the times and places for:

 

The validation order request hearing (apparently 'could' be held tomorrow http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/pompey-past/andronikou_has_two_targets_1_3521525).

 

The hearing about admin on Friday.

 

The WUO hearing on monday if no admin.

 

?

[Truckasaurus]

Hello all you lovers of all things that are true.

 

I'm trying hard to leave but each day fills me with such joy,the up's and down's,will they ? won't they ? are they f***ing dead yet.I wonder if this "thingy" is more addictive than crack cocaine (it's cheaper) therefore no nicking from Asda anymore. So here it is..........I AM GOING TO BUILD A SHED. (this is important too me) poopey ARE history Monday or i will go mad,i need a shed,i need to put stuff in it, i'm not eating correctly and haven't masterbated for weeks,iv'e got wood,nails all the stuff to build a shed,just this effffing moover fookeeenne anoynggg poopey ........JUST DIE

 

P.S. There ain't na money bwuana,poopey no more

[Dark Munster]

I just can't see how the court will let them go into admin, what are they going to say? OK, so we're cash flow insolvent and balance sheet insolvent and we renegotiated our debts a couple of years ago and our outgoings are more than our income, but if you give us a bit more time we promise not to do it again next time?

 

Insolvency courts regularly shut down businesses where there are unfinished orders which results in that stock having a much lower value. Also trading whilst insolvent under either definition is illegal. They appear to fulfill both definitions.

 

The statement of affairs presented to the court on Friday will make amusing reading because they surely can't present one that shows their insolvency.

 

AA will use three things to show that they can service the administration: parachute payments, parachute payments, and Mr. Gregory.

 

OK, maybe not the last one. Somehow Cheats FC have convinced the PL to forward enough (perhaps) to allow them to limp along to when the remainder of the next installment is due, no doubt with the promise that they'll get their house in order then. In reality, as soon as the remainder is received the person at the front of the queue with his hand out (I won't mention who) will be off to HK faster than a pair of knickers falls down in Portsea, finally pulling the plug on the rotten corpse of a club once and for all.

[Gemmel]

If hypothetically speaking, we purchased something from their online web site or online tickets that hadn't arrived by Friday, would that technically make us creditors and by default have a vested interest as to who the administrator was or indeed whether we felt opposed to administration or not?

 

Just a thought :)

[Truckasaurus]

they will not exsist monday night,they can't,who is going to pay the bills, that funny man with the bell

[Thedelldays]

how sweet would that be...they go pop and as a result, put us top of the league....lol

[Waterside.saint]

how sweet would that be...they go pop and as a result, put us top of the league....lol

 

Andonikou reckons he can handle HMRC. Here's hoping they've learnt from last time

[dvaughanwilliams]

AA will use three things to show that they can service the administration: parachute payments, parachute payments, and Mr. Gregory.

 

OK, maybe not the last one. Somehow Cheats FC have convinced the PL to forward enough (perhaps) to allow them to limp along to when the remainder of the next installment is due, no doubt with the promise that they'll get their house in order then. In reality, as soon as the remainder is received the person at the front of the queue with his hand out (I won't mention who) will be off to HK faster than a pair of knickers falls down in Portsea, finally pulling the plug on the rotten corpse of a club once and for all.

 

It's not just about servicing debts though. They have to prove that the club is Balance Sheet solvent, ie that the assets of the club are worth more than the debts for which the club is liable.

 

How much would you value the players + the ground? I'm expecting them to produce a document with goodwill valued at £30m.

 

If the debt for which the club is liable is £50m, how do you make the club worth that? Bear in mind that the statement of affairs for CSI put a value on the club of £4m.

 

In a previous post I made an error. It is only illegal to trade when Balance Sheet insolvent, not Cashflow Insolvent see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_trading

 

If the club is Balance Sheet Insolvent, administration must be refused and they get liquidated on Monday.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

It's not just about servicing debts though. They have to prove that the club is Balance Sheet solvent, ie that the assets of the club are worth more than the debts for which the club is liable.

 

How much would you value the players + the ground? I'm expecting them to produce a document with goodwill valued at £30m.

 

If the debt for which the club is liable is £50m, how do you make the club worth that? Bear in mind that the statement of affairs for CSI put a value on the club of £4m.

 

In a previous post I made an error. It is only illegal to trade when Balance Sheet insolvent, not Cashflow Insolvent see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_trading

 

If the club is Balance Sheet Insolvent, administration must be refused and they get liquidated on Monday.

 

While their CEO was being interviewed today I jotted down some figures as he reeled them off.

 

Now my hearing ain't as good as it used to be so apologies if I am wrong on any of these. Anyway, he disclosed debts as:

 

Old C.V.A. (Payable to Baker Tilly) £16m

CSI (Their previous owners, themselves in Admin) £10.8m

Portpin (loan from Balram Chanrai) £17m

HMRC (incl Taxes due from previous owners* ) £7m * Not quite sure what he meant by that?

 

Total approximately £51m although there may be some red letters as yet undisclosed.

 

So AA is between a rock and a hard place. I'm sure he wants to marginalise HMRC so, like last time, they can't veto the CVA.

 

However, if he inflates the debts too high then they become, as you described so well, Balance Sheet Insolvent.

 

If my figures are close to correct and your figure of value is correct then they are reaslly skating on thin ice.

 

Oh dear!

[The Kraken]

Andonikou reckons he can handle HMRC. Here's hoping they've learnt from last time

 

Just get prepared for more of the same from last time. Chanrai and his puppet Baldy Andronikou will manipulate the system once more, as the spineless and effete HMRC will be left huffing and puffing yet again with no real justice served, and the cheating c*nts from down the road will again get away with wiping off millions of debt.

 

In addition to the disgrace of a "football club" that PFC claims to be, the Football League and the FA should also massively hang their heads in shame; first off, for refusing to act when CSI went into admin (as if them and PFC weren't obviously linked FFS), secondly for giving them David Limpdick and expecting some measure of financial austerity, but most of all for supposedly exercising some financial control and letting Pompey go and repeat the exact same mistakes again and again with utterly no governance whatsoever. As much as the skates are guilty in this whole pathetically sorry charade, the FL/FA must tale some blame for being such a spineless bunch of nobodies.

Edited 15 February, 2012 by The Kraken

[trousers]

[Kingsland Codger]

While their CEO was being interviewed today I jotted down some figures as he reeled them off.

 

Now my hearing ain't as good as it used to be so apologies if I am wrong on any of these. Anyway, he disclosed debts as:

 

Old C.V.A. (Payable to Baker Tilly) £16m

CSI (Their previous owners, themselves in Admin) £10.8m

Portpin (loan from Balram Chanrai) £17m

HMRC (incl Taxes due from previous owners* ) £7m * Not quite sure what he meant by that?

 

Total approximately £51m although there may be some red letters as yet undisclosed.

 

So AA is between a rock and a hard place. I'm sure he wants to marginalise HMRC so, like last time, they can't veto the CVA.

 

However, if he inflates the debts too high then they become, as you described so well, Balance Sheet Insolvent.

 

If my figures are close to correct and your figure of value is correct then they are reaslly skating on thin ice.

 

Oh dear!

 

And here is Mr Lampitt speaking on the Sky Sports website

 

http://www.skysports.com/video/clips/0,23791,16428,00.html

[trousers]

I really need this explained by a PFC fan. Not Corp, a proper one.

 

a) without the FPPT no-one would have bought the club as criminals wouldn't slip through the net

 

b) you're all moaning about the FPPT being responsible for your plight

 

c) this plight has been 6 years in the making, with many owners, and you choose to protest only now?

 

Sorry but I don't understand.

 

Alas, you won't get any (rational) answers from your average PFC fan.

[St Jim]

To be fair to them I also blame the FPPT. If the FA & FL had grown some balls the FPPT would have prevented the numerous jokers and criminals taking over at PFC and thus forcing them into extinction.

 

I blame the FA/FL's FPPT for this travesty!

[positivepete]

To be fair to them I also blame the FPPT. If the FA & FL had grown some balls the FPPT would have prevented the numerous jokers and criminals taking over at PFC and thus forcing them into extinction.

 

I blame the FA/FL's FPPT for this travesty!

 

Rubbish!

The FPPT is not a process for forcing owners on a football club, the club directors choose whether or not to sell the club, and who to sell to. It is still up to the directors to carry out due diligence, they cannot abdicate that responsibility to the governing authority.

 

The problem here is that the club have had a series of essentially forced sales because they have been insolvent for years, so the first hat in the ring has been picked up in the vain hope that one day it will turn out OK.

 

The club should have liquidated two years ago.

[K,Billy's supersound]

dont know if been posted already but first time i seen someone not crying for pompey. http://www.lifesapitch.co.uk/opinions/its-hard-to-feel-sorry-for-portsmouths-plight/

[K,Billy's supersound]

Do people actually want them to die completely?

 

i didn't the first time the went into admin. now though they have been taking the **** for far to long. Those in charge have shown they don't have a clue as to how a club should be run morally or financally, so f**k um. I'd have more respect for those fans that would go and support afc portsmouth.

[St Jim]

Rubbish!

The FPPT is not a process for forcing owners on a football club, the club directors choose whether or not to sell the club, and who to sell to. It is still up to the directors to carry out due diligence, they cannot abdicate that responsibility to the governing authority.

 

The problem here is that the club have had a series of essentially forced sales because they have been insolvent for years, so the first hat in the ring has been picked up in the vain hope that one day it will turn out OK.

 

The club should have liquidated two years ago.

 

My post was meant to be light hearted in that if the fppt had been more stringent then they would have ceased to exist and that itself is a travesty that they haven't ceases. That said it's certainly been an entertaining 2 years.

[Minsk]

Interesting stuff. What publication is that from?

 

The stand-out statement in that for me is: "AA expected HMRC to put up some opposition, but nothing that he could not manage"

 

In other words, he has enough cards up his sleeve and slight of hand to keep HMRC at bay.

 

No surprise that AA feels HMRC don't have the wherewithal to outwit him.

 

And I very must suspect he's right.

 

IMO, AA should not have anything to do with Friday's hearing.

 

Surely Friday is about Lumpitt requesting that he (AA) be appointed? How can he (AA) therefore possibly be representing PFC before a judge has given him permission to do so?

[tony13579]

To be fair to them I also blame the FPPT. If the FA & FL had grown some balls the FPPT would have prevented the numerous jokers and criminals taking over at PFC and thus forcing them into extinction.

 

I blame the FA/FL's FPPT for this travesty!

 

Whilst the FAPPT is useless , I blame the Football Creditors Rule and the FL/PL running a private members bank/ debt clearing system.

I also blame the week management of the PL & FL who have known that Debt Addiction was rife in football and have spectacularly failed to address it.

They have failed to punish PFC, Always waiting for the next event.

 

PFC is a debt junkie and AA is Dr Conran Murray.

[positivepete]

My post was meant to be light hearted in that if the fppt had been more stringent then they would have ceased to exist and that itself is a travesty that they haven't ceases. That said it's certainly been an entertaining 2 years.

 

fair dinkum What will we do with our time when they go pop?

[Doctoroncall]

It's not just about servicing debts though. They have to prove that the club is Balance Sheet solvent, ie that the assets of the club are worth more than the debts for which the club is liable.

 

How much would you value the players + the ground? I'm expecting them to produce a document with goodwill valued at £30m.

 

If the debt for which the club is liable is £50m, how do you make the club worth that? Bear in mind that the statement of affairs for CSI put a value on the club of £4m.

 

In a previous post I made an error. It is only illegal to trade when Balance Sheet insolvent, not Cashflow Insolvent see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_trading

 

If the club is Balance Sheet Insolvent, administration must be refused and they get liquidated on Monday.

 

They had debts of £130m last time they were in court which did come down to about £110m at the time of the CVAand they still survived.

Edited 16 February, 2012 by Doctoroncall
Clarification

[trousers]

IMO, AA should not have anything to do with Friday's hearing.

 

Surely Friday is about Lumpitt requesting that he (AA) be appointed? How can he (AA) therefore possibly be representing PFC before a judge has given him permission to do so?

 

I'm guessing he can declare a vested interest by virtue of the fact he (UHY Hacker) are administrators of CSI and, as such, are the current 'owners' of PFC 2010. In other words, Lampitt merely runs PFC2010 on behalf of UHY Hacker....

 

AA pitching up at tomorrow's court hearing would be akin to the Liebherrs pitching up at a court hearing alongside Cortese.

 

But yes, it's a huge conflict of interests IMO....the current owner of a parent company being involved in the decision to appoint themselves as administrator of one of it's subsidiaries....hey Ho...

[70's Mike]

Just a thought on Pompey's 'support'

 

In the two years they won the League back in the 50's (and fair play to them for that) they never averaged above 37,000 per season in a 'stadium' with a capacity of over 50,000 and, at a time, post war, when all clubs were recording full houses and record attendances!!

 

Also for a club with such a rich history and a conurbation of over 400,000, why have they only averaged crowds of 14,500 in the 52 years since 1960?

 

Winning the league in the 50's was due to a unique set of circumstances.Following the war Portsmouth was packed with young ex sailors from all over the country, some of thom could play football,

They have never built a Club and have always relied on outside forces for success

[Lambert1979]

I see pompey news are applying Ho's interpretation of matches played by calling Appleton a "former Manchester United midfielder" after 2 games for them. Makes our 2009 youth saints veterans surely.....

[dvaughanwilliams]

They had debts of £130m last time they were in court which did come down to about £110m at the time of the CVA and they still survived.

 

I've been looking around online to try and find a copy of the Statement of Affairs from last time. As I remember things, they put a rather *optimistic* figure for the value of their squad. The squad was a lot larger than it is now, with players worth a lot more than the current squad. They were in the Premier League and the value of their Golden Share might also have been quite high.

 

Last time at the liquidation hearing, the Judge said that she suspected that they were trading while insolvent, but gave them 2 weeks to draw up the statement of affairs. The second hearing didn't happen because Chinny put them into Admin before it was completed, without requiring the permission of the court. A harder judge would have liquidated last time.

 

This time, given their track record, the old co's CVA, the fact that the club runs at a significant monthly loss, the fact that they have fewer saleable assets and the lack of credible buyers make this time a lot more serious.

 

It will be interesting to see how they justify a value of assets of more than £50m, or how they try to claim that they aren't liable for all of the debts.

[Sevvy]

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/550449289?-11209

 

Probably already been posted on here, so sorry if it has. if not its a good read.

[trousers]

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/550449289?-11209

 

Probably already been posted on here, so sorry if it has. if not its a good read.

 

Meanwhile the team and the fans stand by and watch that same Football League remove 10 hard won points from their total. It does make you wonder if selling the players may have been a better idea, or why Mr Chainrai didn’t have a bit more honour in regard to his promises, or whether the Football League should take on itself more responsibility for letting Antonov take the club on in the first place. Or better still why no one has thought to talk to the fans over the last three years. There were fans that could have told the Football League what was wrong with Antonov long before they applied their ‘Test’. Fans with access to Google who could read what the FSA said about him. Lets be clear here – the fans aren’t whining about how ‘unlucky’ they have been in their owners.

 

Hmmm....so how many of these Googling fans alerted the Football League at the time...?

 

"Please sir, don't let these CSI hoodlums take us over. We'd rather go bust than have these dubious guys at the helm"

 

Yeah, right....

[sussexsaint]

How can he (AA) therefore possibly be representing PFC before a judge has given him permission to do so?

It is almost as though the administration of CSI and now PFC were linked in some way. Baffles both me and apparently the FL too

[Saint in Paradise]

There were fans that could have told the Football League what was wrong with Antonov long before they applied their ‘Test’. Fans with access to Google who could read what the FSA said about him.

 

Well they sure as heck weren't pimpey fans they were Saints fans on here that outed them yet again.

pimpey fans didn't believe those Saints fans. Stuff the lot of "them" hope they die Monday

 

 

 

I still feel that somehow they will survive though :x:x

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Or d) because the Football League are getting ready to throw a large and hefty book with sharp corners at them?

 

quicker than a game of pass the parcel at an Al Qaeda birthday party,

 

class act

[rallyboy]

effing nutjobs, every single one of..........us.

 

Re the full membership, while I would welcome further opportunities to use a traditional blend of acid wit and plain facts to highlight the hilarious criminality precariously disguised as a business to the east, it isn't a reluctance to spend money that restricts my posting.

 

As it is I've lost months of my life in this thread, if I had unrestricted access I would suffer mental problems.

And you don't have to look too far on here to see how that can creep up on people....

 

I've read every single page, you must if you want to keep on top of what is happening - some postings take half an hour to put together, as the likes of HolePuncture know, the time involved editing a rant so you don't come across as demented is taxing.....

 

So many thanks for the nominations, I love you too, but Mr Munster is correct, I'm desperately trying to prove to Lampitt that quality over quantity can work...

 

 

With the end game looking close it would be amusing to have a PTT social event at some point, either when they go pop and the thread closes so we recognise Duncan's lifetime achievement with a drink in Southampton, or when we get promoted? - whatever happens first.

I genuinely look forward to meeting some of the pants-wetting nutjobs behind the funniest posts - there has been some classic comedy on here, along with great investigative and technical analysis.

 

I've had a ball on here, its rare to go a page without a laugh out loud moment, it would be good to put faces to names and answer those worrying questions....

Why would you call yourself Trousers, and do we want to know the detail? Is that Archie Gemmel? Is Phil really Jason King with a golf club? Are Crab Lungs something you only see on Masterchef?......

 

Just like the unpublished Conan Doyle manuscript, Sherlock Holmes and The Baffling Case of the Turd That Wouldn't Flush, one day these mysteries should be solved.

 

 

[St Chalet]

The PTS liquidation party has a bit of a ring to it.

[dubai_phil]

The PTS liquidation party has a bit of a ring to it.

 

Anyone have an idea for a pre Derby County game post Admin Hearing Light Lunch-Time warm-up event for Saturday?

 

Otherwise it'll be Mike's Fish & Chips on Queensway again