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Pompey Takeover Saga


Fitzhugh Fella

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[h=3]spencerc[/h] Monday, February 13, 2012 at 01:38 PM

 

2.5m so I think the news ned to get their facts straight. Aparently HMRC agreed on friday to delay the winding up petiton so looking good. pack the park tomorrow lads!!!!!

:lol:

 

I bet they didn't. Penny Whats-her-face would have made it very well known as soon as the meeting ended if that had happened. Since when has a politician ever missed an opportunity to justify their own existence?

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Oct-09 Nov-09 Dec-09

Falcondrone 6,999,988 5,750,000 4,000,000

 

This is what was Paid in to Pompeys accounts. Make of it what you want Ho, [/Quote]

Interesting if true, where did that come from. Also interesting because Falcondrone was Faraj’s company so if Chainrai so if Chainrai has been paying Pompey money from it that means he recovered the £17m he “loaned” to Faraj and chose to re-invest it in PFC. Which in my book means he’s not “owed” any money at all, he just made a bad business decision

 

AA lists it as a 'loan' in the CSI creditor's report....

 

csi_1.jpg

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:lol:

 

I bet they didn't. Penny Whats-her-face would have made it very well known as soon as the meeting ended if that had happened. Since when has a politician ever missed an opportunity to justify their own existence?

 

Unless she was under orders from her boss not to shout it from the rooftops as they don't want to be seen to be gloating about putting off payments to HMRC....(maybe they took note of the emails that people from here wrote afterall)....

 

There again, more likely that nothing of the sort has happened....

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Ok lets assume that the Parachute payment advance is somewhere between 2.5 to 1.5 million. What difference is that really going to make? Pay HMRC and fend off the WUP.OK But there are still unpaid staff and that CVA looming. What then? Another WUP from Baker Tilley, players leaving because they have not been paid?

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As for the “we played the kids” mantra, I’ve looked at your stats for the season you went down. Only three players who could be termed “kids” (as in they were making their first team debuts that season) only three played 10 games or more and that was Gillet, James and Lancashire and even then Lancashire only made 10 appearances.

 

You talk a lot of sh!te, but this is worse than normal. What stats did you look up? Or, do you know f*ck all about our team at the time? All these young and inexperienced players played a part in that season:

 

Gillett, Gobern, James, Lancashire, McGoldrick, McClaggon, Mills, Molyneux, Paterson, Thomson & White. That's forgetting youngsters that were competent, but still had limited experience like Lallana (first full season), Dyer, and even Surman. Now go and take a look at what level some of these players are playing at now.

 

Then look at the players we loaned in Pekhart, Robertson - unproven youngsters. We did that season as cheap as we could, playing unproven players while loaning out high earners (Saganowksi, Rasiak) and even not playing some players on occasions, because we couldn't afford to (Euell).

 

http://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd?team_id=2471&teamTabs=stats

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I may have called you a bed wetting conspiracy theorist but certainly not over that point as that’s been my stance all along. And where’s the contradiction? Chainrai wants £17m for the club – that’s the price he agreed with CSI and the price Andronikou kept quoting. What he wants and what he’s actually owed aren’t necessarily the same thing at all – so where’s the contradiction? As for the point about him selling Fratton for £3-£4m – there’s nothing stopping him but as I’ve already covered the risks to him in doing so several times (including in my previous post today) I can’t be bothered to type it all out again. Go back and look at my previous post. The point is, he may want £17m but he’s not going to get it so if someone offers him more than the £3-£4m Fratton might net him, why wouldn’t he take it? Which is what I’ve been saying ever since CSI went into administration

 

See above for reply on Fratton. As for administration, where in the post did I say that only Chainrai could put us into admin? I did ask for any of the geniuses on here to explain why Chainrai’s charge might not be valid. No-one’s replied so I assume you need it explaining. It may be that a court will find that it is valid. However, there’s a very real chance they won’t as the charge is one that was transferred from Oldco to Newco and as Chainrai hasn’t actually made any investment into Newco it would appear that he may not have the legal right to put us into administration. Anyone (Clapham?) care to comment on that point?

 

Interesting if true, where did that come from. Also interesting because Falcondrone was Faraj’s company so if Chainrai so if Chainrai has been paying Pompey money from it that means he recovered the £17m he “loaned” to Faraj and chose to re-invest it in PFC. Which in my book means he’s not “owed” any money at all, he just made a bad business decision

 

Why is it strange? I said that Chainrai never paid a penny for Kitson and Lawrence but that they were PX/ makeweights in the deal when Wilson went to Stoke. We received money from Stoke plus the two players. How does that contradict what I wrote?

 

Ooh, a half millionaire. There can’t be many of those around. Oh, wait a minute – practically anyone who owns a house is a half millionaire these days – including me. PMSL

Great e – petition though Tony. Any feedback from the Conseratives yet?

 

Jesus FC, it’s the same old thing time and time again. Read the David Conn article I keep posting. It proves we didn’t “cheat” to win the cup. The missing money from player sales after the cup win would seem to strongly suggest that someone siphoned money out of the club which would have meant we didn’t have to go into admin in the first place. The fact we now owe HMRC cash is because a new owner decided to spend money on the team and wages that we couldn’t fund once he left the picture – and that money was all approved by the FL at the time and is no different from the owner of any club funding a team, yours included. Add in the fact that all through last season we didn’t have any missed payments to HMRC and your point looks silly. That means we were paying players what we could afford. Not this season, no because Antonov put extra cash in but like I said, a plan that was approved by the FL. As for the “we played the kids” mantra, I’ve looked at your stats for the season you went down. Only three players who could be termed “kids” (as in they were making their first team debuts that season) only three played 10 games or more and that was Gillet, James and Lancashire and even then Lancashire only made 10 appearances.

My hopes for the future? That someone buys us (no idea if that will happen) that Chainrai is out of the picture completely. That the CVA is paid off and we can start to get the club on an even keel. That we bring more players through the youth system as we’ve done with Joel Ward and hopefully will with Adam Webster and Sam Magri (a shame that Ryan Williams had to be sold), develop the stadium and take up Gosport Council’s offer of the land for the training ground.

 

 

McGoldrick 45 starts

Lloyd James 40

Lallana 34

Gillett 23

Lancashire 10

 

Those 5 players, who made 162 starts between them the year we went down, made a total of 2 starts between them the previous season...

That doesn't include Dyer, McKlaggon, White, Patterson, Gobern, Mills and Thomson who all made numerous appearances as well.

 

I think it's very clear we turned to our youth in order to try and live within our means. You sold one of yours (Wilson) and replaced him with 2 senior players whose combined salaries were probably in the region of 4 times that of Wilson's.

 

Quality over quantity, or some cases, just more players at more expense....

Edited by Verbal Kint
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McGoldrick 45 starts

Lloyd James 40

Lallana 34

Gillett 23

Lancashire 10

 

Those 5 players, who made 162 starts between them the year we went down, made a total of 2 starts between them the previous season...

 

I think it's very clear we turned to our youth in order to try and live within our means. You sold one of yours (Wilson) and replaced him with 2 senior players whose combined salaries were probably in the region of 4 times that of Wilson's.

 

Quality over quantity, or some cases, just more players at more expense....

 

C'mon no reason to resort to reasoned argument and facts now is there? Can't we all just get along? This isn't what Whitney would have wanted

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The bank accounts are frozen. The WUP is on Monday, Monies are usually given out by the FA to protect football creditors. If this money is used to pay January wages then another £800k is triggered in tax due. Even if there is money in the account February wages are nearly due. even more tax. If the PP payment was paid on schedule on 1st March. CSI would still have had to contribute considerable funds over Christmas. As this didn't happen it appears that the cashflow isn't there to pay the debts and show solvency.

 

If HMRC get a result in the football creditors verdict due this week the football side of things could grind to a halt, and in any event unless outside funds are forthcoming administration can't happen. Liquidation is a real option.

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The bank accounts are frozen. The WUP is on Monday, Monies are usually given out by the FA to protect football creditors. If this money is used to pay January wages then another £800k is triggered in tax due. Even if there is money in the account February wages are nearly due. even more tax. If the PP payment was paid on schedule on 1st March. CSI would still have had to contribute considerable funds over Christmas. As this didn't happen it appears that the cashflow isn't there to pay the debts and show solvency.

 

If HMRC get a result in the football creditors verdict due this week the football side of things could grind to a halt, and in any event unless outside funds are forthcoming administration can't happen. Liquidation is a real option.

 

I can't help feeling that if Chinny had the wherewithall to put them into admin he would have done so already.

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So £2.5m..

 

Lets assume that the pay up the staff / players £800k and settle the PAYE outstanding £1.6m to stop the WUP (there is another £300k alledged, but let's ignore it). That is £2.4m.

 

At the end of Feb another £800k in wages are due together with £1.6m in PAYE by the 19th March (two pay days in Feb) together with round one of the CVA and a few hundred grand for the aussies. They are not getting away with it.

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The bank accounts are frozen. The WUP is on Monday, Monies are usually given out by the FA to protect football creditors. If this money is used to pay January wages then another £800k is triggered in tax due. Even if there is money in the account February wages are nearly due. even more tax. If the PP payment was paid on schedule on 1st March. CSI would still have had to contribute considerable funds over Christmas. As this didn't happen it appears that the cashflow isn't there to pay the debts and show solvency.

 

If HMRC get a result in the football creditors verdict due this week the football side of things could grind to a halt, and in any event unless outside funds are forthcoming administration can't happen. Liquidation is a real option.

 

 

Based on their form so far I wouldn't think there's much danger they'll win

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As for the “we played the kids” mantra, I’ve looked at your stats for the season you went down. Only three players who could be termed “kids” (as in they were making their first team debuts that season) only three played 10 games or more and that was Gillet, James and Lancashire and even then Lancashire only made 10 appearances.
not sure you have to make your debut to be classified as a kid. Gillet for example had two sub appearances in the season prior to the one you are talking about, but he was still a youngster that we would not have had to turn to should we have not cut our cloth accordingly. The full list of youngsters and their appearances that season are as follows:

 

Bartosz Bialkowski 3

Jack Cork 23

Nathan Dyer 4

Simon Gillett 27

Oscar Gobern 6

Lee Holmes 11

Lloyd James 41

Adam Lallana 40

Oliver Lancashire 11

David McGoldrick 46

Kayne McLaggon 7

Joseph Mills 8

Lee Molyneux 4

Matthew Paterson 11

Alex Pearce 9

Tomas Pekhart 9

Jordan Robertson 10

Morgan Schneiderlin 30

Ryan Smith 13

Andrew Surman 44

Jake Thomson 10

Jamie White 3

 

OK so maybe including Surman is stretching things a touch, but he will still only 22 and as you can see played pretty much every game.

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I'd like to hear the reaction of Forest, Coventry, Doncaster, Watford etc owners/fans who will be fighting relegation without the benefits being provided to Portsmouth.

 

Playing Devil's Advocate - is that strictly relevant if the others don't have PPs? On the other hand, if the skates go without a points deduction for living beyond their means/trading whilst insolvent...

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£2.5M, Even it it is this amount, its still not enough, with £1.9m tax, wages etc upto January, there are 2 pay days in feb and tax to pay on them, still cant see them getting a good result on the WUP on the 20th. why would th HMRC give in, especially if Pompey use the money just to pay the players wages, if the PL pay the money direct to HMRC there is not enough to pay the players, and so still no spare money to fund Admin if they decided to go that way,

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Jesus FC, it’s the same old thing time and time again. Read the David Conn article I keep posting. It proves we didn’t “cheat” to win the cup. The missing money from player sales after the cup win would seem to strongly suggest that someone siphoned money out of the club which would have meant we didn’t have to go into admin in the first place. The fact we now owe HMRC cash is because a new owner decided to spend money on the team and wages that we couldn’t fund once he left the picture – and that money was all approved by the FL at the time and is no different from the owner of any club funding a team, yours included. Add in the fact that all through last season we didn’t have any missed payments to HMRC and your point looks silly. That means we were paying players what we could afford. Not this season, no because Antonov put extra cash in but like I said, a plan that was approved by the FL. As for the “we played the kids” mantra, I’ve looked at your stats for the season you went down. Only three players who could be termed “kids” (as in they were making their first team debuts that season) only three played 10 games or more and that was Gillet, James and Lancashire and even then Lancashire only made 10 appearances.

 

My hopes for the future? That someone buys us (no idea if that will happen) that Chainrai is out of the picture completely. That the CVA is paid off and we can start to get the club on an even keel. That we bring more players through the youth system as we’ve done with Joel Ward and hopefully will with Adam Webster and Sam Magri (a shame that Ryan Williams had to be sold), develop the stadium and take up Gosport Council’s offer of the land for the training ground.

 

 

Jeez Corps - sorry did not mention the cup... as you are clearly incapable of understaning one of two key fundementals about ethics and morals from teh previous administration, lets focus on your current predicament - I repeat, how do you feel about the fact that the 'fault' has allowed you to currently be fie;ding a side that you cant afford? NOW, not historically, but now? How do you feel about the club getting money from the PL in advnace to try and fund this side? IS this in your opinion an unfair competitive advantge when you compare and contrast the likes of Coventry who are down to skin and bones?

 

Forget going on about the friggin FA/FL 'approving' your financial management' - afterall, I though they were not to be trusted anyway given how they have failed you so bady with their FPPT? This has feck all to do with what the FL/FA are doing, but with your opinion on the the ethics of it... are you currently getting a footballing advantage over other clubs who are trying to run within their means? Do you think its right to get a bale out? Do you think it was right to run teh finance based on 'cash investment' from CSI - with no plan B? (or plan B being not paying tax, not paying other clubs, not paying wages, knowing the FL would panic and a few qud in parachutes would be on its way... that you said had been 'ringfenced for the CVA?' Make you feckin mind up...jesus....

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Here we go!

 

"Guardian understands Portsmouth FC are about to go into administration. Statement in due course"

 

- Ian Prior

 

Or the other angle of course, have the parachute payment advancements been dished out to fund another administration?

 

£1m for admin process, players wages deffered as the get preferentials/secured status... drag out admin until the end of the season so that the fixture list is not undermined by poopeys super bad luck... blow off CSI debt as it is unsecured (?), blow off the tax payer/HMRC... Chinny drags them out of admin again and marks the next PP tranche date in his loan sharking book, oldCo CVA gets pushed back another year, local business' and charities struggle whilst Dave Kitson buys a new range rover.

 

-10 for pompey admin, -2 for doing it twice in two years...

 

very kind of sky sports and the UK taxpayer to fund pompey going bust again... FFS!

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http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/9527851.Unpaid_tax_bill_hits___5_586_000/

 

Don't panic....this isn't Southampton Football Club....but rather Southampton Council's tax deficit.... It's just a shame the GMB spokeman quoted in the article isn't as voiciferous about the tax evasion down the road....

 

Southampton owed more than £5.5m in council tax and business rates

 

1:13pm Monday 13th February 2012 in

 

SOUTHAMPTON is owed more council tax and business rates than almost any other local authority in the south east, according to one of Britain’s biggest unions.

 

The city has been placed third in a league table drawn up by the GMB union, which says residents have failed to pay a total of £5,586,000. Only Medway (£5,905,000) and Slough (£5,734,000) are owed more.

 

A GMB spokesman said: “It is a scandal and a disgrace. Vital services for our elderly and our children are being slashed due to Government cuts in funding and yet more than £1 billion nationally is going uncollected in council tax and business rates. "

 

Edited by trousers
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You only have to look at the comments from the phew fans after The News articles to see what they think of it.

 

They are gleeful that they might not have to pay their debts. One of them was suggesting that the Aussie clubs deal would be with old co so they shoudn't have to pay them any money.

 

If their dad or brother supplied PFC with signage, programmes or catering would they think it was brilliant (and fair) that they weren't being paid.

 

Someone has to work for Bishops printers and they're probably PFC supporters. Are they happy that they may lose their job because of it.

 

I don't get why they're so happy. They think they're one up on the world because they could get away with paying their bills - weird

 

Maybe be a few phew fans need to have their caravan repossessed because of non-payment by PFC to understand why it isn't something to cheer about.

Edited by Winchester Red
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Or the other angle of course, have the parachute payment advancements been dished out to fund another administration?

 

£1m for admin process, players wages deffered as the get preferentials/secured status... drag out admin until the end of the season so that the fixture list is not undermined by poopeys super bad luck... blow off CSI debt as it is unsecured (?), blow off the tax payer/HMRC... Chinny drags them out of admin again and marks the next PP tranche date in his loan sharking book, oldCo CVA gets pushed back another year, local business' and charities struggle whilst Dave Kitson buys a new range rover.

 

-10 for pompey admin, -2 for doing it twice in two years...

 

very kind of sky sports and the UK taxpayer to fund pompey going bust again... FFS!

 

pompey and financial fair play

From a Millwall board:

http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=369&fid=180&act=1&mid=2115336227

I don't Like clubs going out if business, but I hope they do...two reasons really.

I think they have enough time to sort out the mess they are in and not add to it ! They still pay high wages to compete in this division.if they were any other business they would be gone by now or would have an embargo on what they can do.

 

Secondly

 

It's not the first time and I feel a Leeds penalty would be the minimum they should get of 30 points not 10!

Also demotion to one of the lower leagues. All the small businesses that have lost money in there recent CVA. Don't give them anymore chances for mis management !

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I don't get why they're so happy. They think they're one up on the world because they could get away with paying their bills - weird

 

As long as they have a club to support at the end of the day, the DFCSB's don't care how its run or funded.

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pompey and financial fair play

From a Millwall board:

http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=369&fid=180&act=1&mid=2115336227

I don't Like clubs going out if business, but I hope they do...two reasons really.

I think they have enough time to sort out the mess they are in and not add to it ! They still pay high wages to compete in this division.if they were any other business they would be gone by now or would have an embargo on what they can do.

 

Secondly

 

It's not the first time and I feel a Leeds penalty would be the minimum they should get of 30 points not 10!

Also demotion to one of the lower leagues. All the small businesses that have lost money in there recent CVA. Don't give them anymore chances for mis management !

 

:adore:

 

I always knew those Millwall folk were a good bunch

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F*cking hell, Pompey fans really don't get it, do they. This message just popped up on their message board from one poster:

 

"Question: would this early parachute payment unfreeze the bank account - and if it does, will we be able to bring in an emergency loan or two e.g. Thorne?"

 

Just quite breathtaking ignorance to the predicament they are in; a fault seemingly symptomatic of a huge amount of their fanbase. F*ck everyone else, f*ck paying bills, can we sign some mroe players please?

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F*cking hell, Pompey fans really don't get it, do they. This message just popped up on their message board from one poster:

 

"Question: would this early parachute payment unfreeze the bank account - and if it does, will we be able to bring in an emergency loan or two e.g. Thorne?"

 

Just quite breathtaking ignorance to the predicament they are in; a fault seemingly symptomatic of a huge amount of their fanbase. F*ck everyone else, f*ck paying bills, can we sign some mroe players please?

 

And to think they solely blame the credientials and mentality of their owners for their previous and current predicaments. Perhaps someone should remind them of the phrase "accessories to the crime"...

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even if they do go into Admin and lose 10 points they'll still be second and qualified for Europe.

Rangers is just about tax and contributions.

 

Scottish FA can be pretty harsh though. Didn't Dundee (or Dundee United) get -25 for going into administration last year?

 

Edit - Yes, it was Dundee in November 2010. -25 points

Edited by Winchester Red
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