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Pompey Takeover Saga


Fitzhugh Fella

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http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/campaigns/passion-for-portsmouth/news/pressure_mounts_for_administrator_to_meet_worried_pompey_fans_1_3464786

 

Latest from the News.

 

Fans demanding a meeting with AA, perhaps for autographs.

 

It also goes on to say that Cala wan'ts to buy the Debebture on the Skates from Portpin, so he can take over the club without going throught the FPP test. The comedy just goes on and on.

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http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/campaigns/passion-for-portsmouth/news/pressure_mounts_for_administrator_to_meet_worried_pompey_fans_1_3464786

 

Latest from the News.

 

Fans demanding a meeting with AA, perhaps for autographs.

 

It also goes on to say that Cala wan'ts to buy the Debebture on the Skates from Portpin, so he can take over the club without going throught the FPP test. The comedy just goes on and on.

 

I probably should have guessed, but this quote about the Directos and Owners test was a revelation:

 

 

A spokesman said: ‘If you own 30 per cent or more of a football club, or if you are a director, you have to go through the test. It’s a self-certification test and there is a legal requirement that the information has to be accurate.’

 

So it's a self certification exercise - no wonder everyone passes

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It also says the FAPPT is self certifying with a legal requirement to be accurate. Does anyone at the FL ever check the info given?

 

Cala clearly doesn't think the same as you. Passing the FAPPT is harder, he says, than getting into MI5.

 

Good grief. Makes you wonder what we DON'T know.

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I probably should have guessed, but this quote about the Directos and Owners test was a revelation:

 

 

A spokesman said: ‘If you own 30 per cent or more of a football club, or if you are a director, you have to go through the test. It’s a self-certification test and there is a legal requirement that the information has to be accurate.’

 

So it's a self certification exercise - no wonder everyone passes

 

Self Certification mortgages created the chaos in the financial markets - as limp wristed regulation by the FSA allowed lenders (and individuals) to go mad.

 

Ironic really - it's the same with the FAPPT and the FA.

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No offence Langley but I can't work out this "skate supporting mate" lark. The 1st word and your 3rd word should just not equate in the same sentence. How about using "acquaintance" it makes me feel more comfortable :)

 

I'm with you. Cant understand calling them pompey either. Skates or in a formal setting Portsmouth. Dirty fec king co onts

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This quote just sums up their fanbase:

 

"If Carla is the only option I'm happy. I just want our club. Does anyone on here really think that football clubs are run by straight, clean genuine people ? Come on it's just a way for people to clean there money. It's not a way to earn money. MOST OWNERS In the top 2 leagues anyway"

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This quote just sums up their fanbase:

 

"If Carla is the only option I'm happy. I just want our club. Does anyone on here really think that football clubs are run by straight, clean genuine people ? Come on it's just a way for people to clean there money. It's not a way to earn money. MOST OWNERS In the top 2 leagues anyway"

and they have the bare faced cheek to call us SCUM !

hurry up & die you festering pile of sh*te !

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Cala clearly doesn't think the same as you. Passing the FAPPT is harder, he says, than getting into MI5.

 

Good grief. Makes you wonder what we DON'T know.

 

Given the list of people have passed the FAPPT, it says everything that Cala clearly doesn't think he'll pass it. And this is the only guy interested in buying them!

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http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/campaigns/passion-for-portsmouth/news/pressure_mounts_for_administrator_to_meet_worried_pompey_fans_1_3464786

Oh I just love it the gift that keeps on giving, They have no remorse whatsoever. They lord it & shout it from the rooftops when a new owner comes in. Shouting were minted SPEND SPEND SPEND, Then 6-months later when the S**t hits the fan its all woe is us its not our fault, poor us the fans who suffer. Then they are prepared to accept anybody who will paper over the cracks long enough to spend a few bob in the transfer window & continue to let them carry on CHEATING DFSCB.

I particularly like post 36 Lew11 who finishes of with "we are still one of the top 20 clubs in England our potential is massive" :lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

And KPF Blue CIC company?? make a profit?? is he really talking about that S**te hole down in Portsea??? :lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

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This from what counts as an ITK in Portsmouth (I've corrected the English):

 

We are still one of the top 20 clubs in England. Our potential is massive. Do Rochdale, Hereford and Darlington, to mention a few, get our crowds?

 

Some of it is right anyway...

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Although no one is giving it as the reason for no player sales or it all going quiet on the new owners front, I reckon that Pompey are now trapped.

 

They obviously don't have the money on hand to pay off the taxman. (They would have already if they did.)

A company with a WUP against it can't sell assets. (That's probably the reason offers have been turned down.)

A company with a WUP against it can't be sold itself. (Some parties are interested according to AA, but it probably doesn't matter now. Any party would have to pay off the HMRC to try and clear out the WUP before Pompey can be sold now.)

Last time the escaped by going into administration, they probably can't this time, due to the existing CVA. (Probably the reason AA is saying that Admin is the last thing they're considering this time.)

 

Their only chance is either someone comes in and donates money to pay off the taxman before they buy, or an existing interested party (ie. Chanrai) puts money in to keep them going, or they negotiate with the courts to allow a sale to go through, although that relies on finding a buyer that's actually willing to pay out for them, or they get a temporary reprieve by negotiating with the courts to allow player sales to go through so they can pay off the tax.

 

Pompey's main problem with all of this is that HMRC have a say in every way that can save Pompey, as they can object in court, except for a donation, or Chanrai extending more credit to them. The first of those is unlikely to say the least, the second doesn't fix anything, just gives them a delay. HMRC objective here seems to be that they want Pompey liquidated. Their actions, ie. serving the WUP as soon as they had the chance, can't be interpreted any other way, so you can be sure they would object to anything short of a solution that means they get paid everything up front, and future tax payments are secured.

Edited by Jimmy_D
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Interestingly earlier Kris Temple said something along the lines of 'well perhaps the FA transfer rules could be relaxed a little so Pompey could sell a few players'

 

THANKFULLY someone texted in to tell him what a stupid precedent that would set, and that it's unfair on other clubs if others can't deal with their finances.

 

They're all making excuses for them again.

 

Pompey CHOSE 'quality over quantity' last season.

 

Pompey CHOSE to buy more mercenaries under Redknapp rather than invest in infastructure.

 

Pompey CHOSE to pay the players instead of HMRC last month.

 

No more of this 'fookin bleating from TCWTB on Solent about 'somebody save us'.

 

No John, Skates need saving..just from themselves.

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Pompey's main problem with all of this is that HMRC have a say in every way that can save Pompey, as they can object in court, except for a donation, or Chanrai extending more credit to them. The first of those is unlikely to say the least, the second doesn't fix anything, just gives them a delay. HMRC objective here seems to be that they want Pompey liquidated. Their actions, ie. serving the WUP as soon as they had the chance, can't be interpreted any other way, so you can be sure they would object to anything short of a solution that means they get paid everything up front, and future tax payments are secured.

 

Not sure that Chainrai is even an option now. In the past he has leant them money [lol @ ludicrous interest rates], but he has ALWAYS been able to secure his loans against assets [sic]. Two problems with that now, they don't have any assets left to secure against and even if they did a charge cannot be registered over them now the WUP has been issued and the case heard. That means Chinny would have to lend them the money and hope he gets it back one day. He's not stupid, so that isn't going to happen, which would explain why AA has gone on record stating he won't be helping out!

 

So that just leaves :

 

1. Wealthy lunatic that's got money to throw away - haven't seen many of them!

2. WUP becomes WUO = toast.

3. FL advance them more money to pay off HMRC, which will leave them short of cash in a week / month or two = toast.

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Have they payed the players this month, or have I missed it? I just remember them making such a big deal over paying them last month. All seems a bit quite on that front??

 

Yep they've paid the mercenaries, just not the charities, the hard up local businessmen and their taxes.

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a normal business could use the last week or two before court to negotiate with the taxman over selling assets.

But the transfer window rules mean that Lampitt needs to be having that last resort strategy conversation NOW, like in the next two days - I'm not sure that's dawned on him yet.

 

If they insist on grimly hanging onto their ridiculous squad so they can cheat other more stable clubs like the Peterboroughs of this world out of three points, they are reducing their options, raising the stakes, and jogging further up the liquidation cul-de-sac.

 

It always has to be gamble the lot with pompey, they can't resist a punt.

 

The only guarantee with all addicted gamblers is....one day their luck will run out and the whole lot will come crashing down....

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I had to pull a night shift last night and set my clock radio to wake me up before the game. I came out of a deep sleep with the sound of Westwood on Solant. I really thought I was dreaming. He was banging on about what a good investment it was for someone.

 

"We only need a new training facillity,and a new stadium. There were 200,000 welcoming the cup back, and Brighton, Saints and Reading have new grounds but not the passion we have".

 

What is the clown on about ONLY need a new ground.

 

My Sunday team has 3 pasionate supporters, one of the player's Mum and Dad and another blokes mate, they come to every game and are really passionate. Surely it's not about how passionate they are, but how many pay £'s to watch their team.

 

I'm sure I must have been dreaming or did someone else hear it?

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So that just leaves :

 

1. Wealthy lunatic that's got money to throw away - haven't seen many of them!

2. WUP becomes WUO = toast.

3. FL advance them more money to pay off HMRC, which will leave them short of cash in a week / month or two = toast.

 

Well, only one of those options is really an option - and even that's debatable. Wealthy lunatics have either been wiped out by the credit crunch or have battened down the hatches for years to come. Cala only seems to fit, at most, one part of the above phrase, and it evidently isn't 'wealthy'.

 

So toast it is. Probably by April at the latest.

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I am very naive when it comes to business and high finance, so can somebody explain why Appleton said in his post match interviewthat the fact that they have the unpaid tax bill makes the club a more attractive proposition for a new buyer?

 

Very bizarre, he states they dont have to pay HMRC until the bill is due on 20th February.

Who told him that - AA or DL ?

They could get a few players in before then.

Ignorance is bliss down the road !

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Although no one is giving it as the reason for no player sales or it all going quiet on the new owners front, I reckon that Pompey are now trapped.

 

They obviously don't have the money on hand to pay off the taxman. (They would have already if they did.)

A company with a WUP against it can't sell assets. (That's probably the reason offers have been turned down.)

A company with a WUP against it can't be sold itself. (Some parties are interested according to AA, but it probably doesn't matter now. Any party would have to pay off the HMRC to try and clear out the WUP before Pompey can be sold now.)

Last time the escaped by going into administration, they probably can't this time, due to the existing CVA. (Probably the reason AA is saying that Admin is the last thing they're considering this time.)

 

Their only chance is either someone comes in and donates money to pay off the taxman before they buy, or an existing interested party (ie. Chanrai) puts money in to keep them going, or they negotiate with the courts to allow a sale to go through, although that relies on finding a buyer that's actually willing to pay out for them, or they get a temporary reprieve by negotiating with the courts to allow player sales to go through so they can pay off the tax.

 

Pompey's main problem with all of this is that HMRC have a say in every way that can save Pompey, as they can object in court, except for a donation, or Chanrai extending more credit to them. The first of those is unlikely to say the least, the second doesn't fix anything, just gives them a delay. HMRC objective here seems to be that they want Pompey liquidated. Their actions, ie. serving the WUP as soon as they had the chance, can't be interpreted any other way, so you can be sure they would object to anything short of a solution that means they get paid everything up front, and future tax payments are secured.

 

Let me see if I understand correctly what you are saying.

 

They're f**ked? :lol:

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Although no one is giving it as the reason for no player sales or it all going quiet on the new owners front, I reckon that Pompey are now trapped.

 

They obviously don't have the money on hand to pay off the taxman. (They would have already if they did.)

A company with a WUP against it can't sell assets. (That's probably the reason offers have been turned down.)

A company with a WUP against it can't be sold itself. (Some parties are interested according to AA, but it probably doesn't matter now. Any party would have to pay off the HMRC to try and clear out the WUP before Pompey can be sold now.)

Last time the escaped by going into administration, they probably can't this time, due to the existing CVA. (Probably the reason AA is saying that Admin is the last thing they're considering this time.)

 

Their only chance is either someone comes in and donates money to pay off the taxman before they buy, or an existing interested party (ie. Chanrai) puts money in to keep them going, or they negotiate with the courts to allow a sale to go through, although that relies on finding a buyer that's actually willing to pay out for them, or they get a temporary reprieve by negotiating with the courts to allow player sales to go through so they can pay off the tax.

 

Pompey's main problem with all of this is that HMRC have a say in every way that can save Pompey, as they can object in court, except for a donation, or Chanrai extending more credit to them. The first of those is unlikely to say the least, the second doesn't fix anything, just gives them a delay. HMRC objective here seems to be that they want Pompey liquidated. Their actions, ie. serving the WUP as soon as they had the chance, can't be interpreted any other way, so you can be sure they would object to anything short of a solution that means they get paid everything up front, and future tax payments are secured.

 

I think they can sell assets, with the agreement of HMRC, as the WUP petitioner, and that cash going directly to HMRC. However, I suspect the real problem is that they can't clear £1.6m from player sales and, even if they can, the dent in the wage bill won't be big enough and they'll have the same issue next month.

 

The players won't have asked for a transfer, and it may well be that Pearce, having only joined in the summer, has at least 2.5 years left to run on his contract (which is likely to be a reasonable amount). There will probably be a sell on clause too. Add in that the reported bid is unlikely to be cash up front, then it won't solve their problem. HMRC would make it clear that it's cash now, in full, or the WUP continues.

 

The other issue is that the biggest earners like Lawrence, Kitson, TBH, Halford, Norris etc will be on much more money than anyone else would be willing to pay them. They won't give that up easily and anyone who was willing to pay them that kind of money (takeover their contract) wouldn't be paying a transfer fee. I'd also suspect that a lot of clubs have their 'big' players on deals that ensures them parity with any new signing, so increasing their wage bill massively.

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This is not directed specifically at the Skates, however their current particular situation fits the scenario.

 

Increasingly of the last few years football in England in particular, and the world in general, has carried on in rather a strange existence. A few clubs are living with finances almost beyond imagination. Other clubs are struggling along tighteneing their belts and living within their means, paying their bills, hmrc, local businesses etc. A third group however are spending money they dont have on a reckless bid for glory. Some off these clubs are not just reckless but are turning a deliberate blind eye to the consequences of their actions. The FL/PL are not not as stupid as they usually appear to be, and I can see a situation arising when the FL want to make an example of a club to try a bring the rest to some sort of sense regarding their spending. The club they choose will not be a small club like Darlington, because they are too small to provide enough impact. It wont be a large club like WHU or a PL Club, so that leaves a mid-size Championship club.

My conspiracy theory is Skates FC are the ideal club. They are a club who have been in the headlines recently both for their FA Cup win (however cheatingly obtained) and their history of total disregard for financial good-housekeeping, and perhaps Harry's tax evasion if proved. I forsee a situation where the FL/PL will not go out of their way to helping them survive by forwarding Parachute payments etc. And will be able to quote league rules and fair-play for not assisting them.

I believe a club will be allowed to go out of existence as some sort of warning or 'wake up call' to other clubs. Currently Skates are the obvious candidate. Whether the FL/PL haved got the balls to do it is another matter.

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The other issue is that the biggest earners like Lawrence, Kitson, TBH, Halford, Norris etc will be on much more money than anyone else would be willing to pay them. They won't give that up easily and anyone who was willing to pay them that kind of money (takeover their contract) wouldn't be paying a transfer fee. I'd also suspect that a lot of clubs have their 'big' players on deals that ensures them parity with any new signing, so increasing their wage bill massively.

 

Which is why many do not like the football creditors rule. Players can just sit there knowing they will be paid as soon as someone wants to take up the clubs "golden share". Mind if no one takes up the golden share and the division loses a team mid season .....................

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Last time the escaped by going into administration, they probably can't this time, due to the existing CVA.

 

Is that right? I thought the most likely outcome now is they go back into admin, blow off the debt again, and get another puppet owner so Chanrai can keep bleeding it dry.

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This is not directed specifically at the Skates, however their current particular situation fits the scenario.

 

Increasingly of the last few years football in England in particular, and the world in general, has carried on in rather a strange existence. A few clubs are living with finances almost beyond imagination. Other clubs are struggling along tighteneing their belts and living within their means, paying their bills, hmrc, local businesses etc. A third group however are spending money they dont have on a reckless bid for glory. Some off these clubs are not just reckless but are turning a deliberate blind eye to the consequences of their actions. The FL/PL are not not as stupid as they usually appear to be, and I can see a situation arising when the FL want to make an example of a club to try a bring the rest to some sort of sense regarding their spending. The club they choose will not be a small club like Darlington, because they are too small to provide enough impact. It wont be a large club like WHU or a PL Club, so that leaves a mid-size Championship club.

My conspiracy theory is Skates FC are the ideal club. They are a club who have been in the headlines recently both for their FA Cup win (however cheatingly obtained) and their history of total disregard for financial good-housekeeping, and perhaps Harry's tax evasion if proved. I forsee a situation where the FL/PL will not go out of their way to helping them survive by forwarding Parachute payments etc. And will be able to quote league rules and fair-play for not assisting them.

I believe a club will be allowed to go out of existence as some sort of warning or 'wake up call' to other clubs. Currently Skates are the obvious candidate. Whether the FL/PL haved got the balls to do it is another matter.

 

I've actually been wondering the same but I don't think it is ultimately down to the PL/FL. It is ultimately down to the judge in the court, who know full well their name will be in the headlines if they decide to wind up a football club with a profile like Pompey's. And I'm afraid this will be a big factor in their decisions which is why there is an unwritten line between the PL/Championship and certain League 1 clubs that are currently above the law due to their size and the witchhunt-style coverage of the media in today's society.

 

As we've seen the PL are too worried about their brand and money to give a toss about the law, the FL can only punish accordingly to when clubs break their regulations. I think Pompey have squirmed their way to perfection to avoiding any points penalties in the Championship so far but one day football's finances will all come crashing down. The only way to send out a message is by winding a club like Pompey up. Pompey's finances are ruined long term so if they aren't wound up they will be crippled for years and years. Whether it is decided that one day will be "enough" is another matter, but Pompey's continued financial recklessness is continually flirting with this.

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Is that right? I thought the most likely outcome now is they go back into admin, blow off the debt again, and get another puppet owner so Chanrai can keep bleeding it dry.

 

Any administration needs to funded through cash flow or from third party funds. The first option is not happening, so unless someone funds the administration any company must, by law, go straight to liquidation

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as they are trading insolvently I find it difficult to recognise any points they are currently 'winning'.

 

And I know that the league perhaps want to see what happens before they impose sanctions, but pompey have clearly triggered a points penalty with the current 'insolvency incident' and missed tax payments, no other clubs have been spared on these occasions so why the delay?

They've already qualified for a minus 10 which won't worry them at all as they have the highest paid XI in the division and should be in the top six - is the league waiting to up that for a second administration in three years?

 

If nothing happens then football is more bent than Quasimodo at a Twister party - a theory supported by the evidence about Harry's thieving pooch.

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I think they can sell assets, with the agreement of HMRC, as the WUP petitioner, and that cash going directly to HMRC. However, I suspect the real problem is that they can't clear £1.6m from player sales and, even if they can, the dent in the wage bill won't be big enough and they'll have the same issue next month.

 

The players won't have asked for a transfer, and it may well be that Pearce, having only joined in the summer, has at least 2.5 years left to run on his contract (which is likely to be a reasonable amount). There will probably be a sell on clause too. Add in that the reported bid is unlikely to be cash up front, then it won't solve their problem. HMRC would make it clear that it's cash now, in full, or the WUP continues.

 

The other issue is that the biggest earners like Lawrence, Kitson, TBH, Halford, Norris etc will be on much more money than anyone else would be willing to pay them. They won't give that up easily and anyone who was willing to pay them that kind of money (takeover their contract) wouldn't be paying a transfer fee. I'd also suspect that a lot of clubs have their 'big' players on deals that ensures them parity with any new signing, so increasing their wage bill massively.

 

I'm no expert on the current legalities but when in 1982 I set up my first business I c*cked up the cash flow and owed the HMRC a little less than I was owed in VAT refunds on stock purchased to set up. Although they were separate departments in those days I tried to get them to talk to each other so that one knew that their debt was more than covered by the other...they absolutely refused and issued a 'distraint' on the goods in my stock to be actioned within a week if the bill had not been settled.

 

Fortunately we had a good week and were able to pay within that time and I learnt a valuable lesson but had I not been able to the goods that had the 'distraint' attached to them would have been seized at a value well below their actual worth (as I remember it) up to the value of the debt. No days of grace were given and the 'distraint' notice was issued by a tax office bailiff...a sobering and focussing experience!

 

This may have changed since then (I learnt and have not made that same mistake in the past 30 years!) but there must surely be a system that allows a similar arrangement? Ostensibly (as the real estate is not owned by P*mpey) the only 'assets' are the players....and if they are tied to expensive contracts the only possibility would be to wind up the company...unless they take administration first?

 

Perhaps someone with recent or relevant experience (Clapham?) could comment - whichever way you look at it it's utterly unviable as it is.

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Which is why many do not like the football creditors rule. Players can just sit there knowing they will be paid as soon as someone wants to take up the clubs "golden share". Mind if no one takes up the golden share and the division loses a team mid season .....................

 

My bet is that they've also paid the players rather than HMRC as, in any future CVA, if HMRC have less than 25% of the debt (would the debt to CSI count? Probably), they would only get x pence in the £ - i.e. they get away with paying in full. However, if they'd have paid HMRC and not the players, any potential buyer would still have to honour the players contracts.

 

Not paying HMRC makes them a more attractive purchase....cr ap isn't it?

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This is not directed specifically at the Skates, however their current particular situation fits the scenario.

 

Increasingly of the last few years football in England in particular, and the world in general, has carried on in rather a strange existence. A few clubs are living with finances almost beyond imagination. Other clubs are struggling along tighteneing their belts and living within their means, paying their bills, hmrc, local businesses etc. A third group however are spending money they dont have on a reckless bid for glory. Some off these clubs are not just reckless but are turning a deliberate blind eye to the consequences of their actions. The FL/PL are not not as stupid as they usually appear to be, and I can see a situation arising when the FL want to make an example of a club to try a bring the rest to some sort of sense regarding their spending. The club they choose will not be a small club like Darlington, because they are too small to provide enough impact. It wont be a large club like WHU or a PL Club, so that leaves a mid-size Championship club.

My conspiracy theory is Skates FC are the ideal club. They are a club who have been in the headlines recently both for their FA Cup win (however cheatingly obtained) and their history of total disregard for financial good-housekeeping, and perhaps Harry's tax evasion if proved. I forsee a situation where the FL/PL will not go out of their way to helping them survive by forwarding Parachute payments etc. And will be able to quote league rules and fair-play for not assisting them.

I believe a club will be allowed to go out of existence as some sort of warning or 'wake up call' to other clubs. Currently Skates are the obvious candidate. Whether the FL/PL haved got the balls to do it is another matter.

 

It's not just them, sadly. For some reason - possibly because it is a politically insighful city full of deep-thinkers, or more likely a swamp full of web-fingered inbreds only capable of putting randomly placed X's on a polling card - both Skateville's constituencies are among the most marginal in England, with all three main parties having a vested interest in keeping the mutants onside.

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