mcjwills Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 Don't bet on it. I wouldn't be surprised if AA is busy working on getting Gay boy's unsecured creditor status above the magic 75% mark. Or just one, if 75% of the unsecured debt is owed to that particular "creditor". I think you will find the percentages can not change once the administration was announced, and additional debts are down to the administrator
Wes Tender Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 cos we are very special stuey,,,,,:smt008 Of course you're special, mack rill. For as long as the Premiership has existed, you're the very first club in that division ever to go into administration. Your place in the history of British football is secure for ever more. Other clubs might follow, but you'll be always be the first to go down the pan from the top flight and therefore on the same level in footballing history as Roger Banister was in the history of the running track and Edmund Hillary in the field of mountaineering. You must be very proud.
Baj Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 Some facts on this thread... Taking an average of 40 words per post, you have written 918,000 words. If it were made a paperback book, it would be over 2,500 pages long Reading a modest 2 hours a day, it would take you 34 days to read the entire thread. Sources: http://www.writersservices.com/wps/p_word_count.htm http://ezinearticles.com/?What-is-the-Average-Reading-Speed-and-the-Best-Rate-of-Reading?&id=2298503
sidthesquid Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 (edited) Some facts on this thread... Taking an average of 40 words per post, you have written 918,000 words. If it were made a paperback book, it would be over 2,500 pages long Reading a modest 2 hours a day, it would take you 34 days to read the entire thread. Sources: http://www.writersservices.com/wps/p_word_count.htm http://ezinearticles.com/?What-is-the-Average-Reading-Speed-and-the-Best-Rate-of-Reading?&id=2298503 And the really tragic thing is we are nowhere near the real action yet. My prediction of 500 pages still holds good. Mind you I don't envy the poor s0d who has to edit this lot down for the book. (Edit - I have just realised I have written exactly 40 words - barely two lines - I reckon you need to up your estimate somewhat) Edited 8 April, 2010 by sidthesquid More irrelevant detail
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 He was around when Methuselah was a lad. Mind you so was I. Don`t get me started on Picture Book, Andy Pandy, The Flowerpot Men, Rag, Tag and Bobtail and the Woodentops!! Isn't Muffin The Mule still illegal?
Doctoroncall Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 Some facts on this thread... Taking an average of 40 words per post, you have written 918,000 words. If it were made a paperback book, it would be over 2,500 pages long Reading a modest 2 hours a day, it would take you 34 days to read the entire thread. Sources: http://www.writersservices.com/wps/p_word_count.htm http://ezinearticles.com/?What-is-the-Average-Reading-Speed-and-the-Best-Rate-of-Reading?&id=2298503 That's the longest book I've ever read with more twists than a twisty thing, all I want now is a happy ending!
JackFrost Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 I think you will find the percentages can not change once the administration was announced, and additional debts are down to the administrator I believe AA has been caught out by a high court judge doing this once before, so he wouldn't dare try that one again
SaintPaddy Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 The News is posting that Dindane can now play on Sunday as they had 'miscounted' the number of games he could play, and it is in fact 22 instead of 20 before they have to pay Lens the £4 million. Perhaps the inbreeding gives them some problems with the decimal system (The Romans based it on the number of fingers and thumbs of a non portsea resident) or could it be that the extra 2 games are Mr Storries usual 10% cut ? In that case the Skates have fielded a weakened side, again breaching Premier League rules.
benjii Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 In that case the Skates have fielded a weakened side, again breaching Premier League rules.
positivepete Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 The ONeil story being raised again, looks like he is on his way out of Middlesbrough this summer. And an update on their *owner" Andronikou also said that the former owner Balram Chainrai, who may represent Portsmouth's best chance of survival if he agrees to take the club out of administration, will travel to London later this week. Andronikou said: "He's flying over at the weekend. He'll probably seek a meeting, though I have not head from him for quite a while now." http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/apr/08/portsmouth-middlesbrough-gary-oneil
OldNick Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 The ONeil story being raised again, looks like he is on his way out of Middlesbrough this summer. And an update on their *owner" Andronikou also said that the former owner Balram Chainrai, who may represent Portsmouth's best chance of survival if he agrees to take the club out of administration, will travel to London later this week. Andronikou said: "He's flying over at the weekend. He'll probably seek a meeting, though I have not head from him for quite a while now." http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/apr/08/portsmouth-middlesbrough-gary-oneilPerhaps Boro should point out Pompey havent played Dindane for the very same reason. Iam surprised that Pompey had not renegotiated that when they needed money some months ago
Dimond Geezer Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 And the really tragic thing is we are nowhere near the real action yet. My prediction of 500 pages still holds good. Mind you I don't envy the poor s0d who has to edit this lot down for the book. (Edit - I have just realised I have written exactly 40 words - barely two lines - I reckon you need to up your estimate somewhat) I disagree - the really tragic thing is that Baj has got his calculator out and worked it all out.
suewhistle Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 Some on The News forum have had the right reaction: "haha...just proves what a joke we have become! We don't even know what terms we've signed players up on! Priceless!"
benjii Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 If they'd kept football contracts expert Peter Storrie on in his consultancy role then this would never have happened. Their loss, our government's gain.
Smirking_Saint Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 The ONeil story being raised again, looks like he is on his way out of Middlesbrough this summer. And an update on their *owner" Andronikou also said that the former owner Balram Chainrai, who may represent Portsmouth's best chance of survival if he agrees to take the club out of administration, will travel to London later this week. Andronikou said: "He's flying over at the weekend. He'll probably seek a meeting, though I have not head from him for quite a while now." http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/apr/08/portsmouth-middlesbrough-gary-oneil Lol at android calling the middlesborough chairman cynical for not playing a player in order to not pay them a certain appearance fee !! not like they have done that this season is it. Ahem........Dindane :-\"
Dark Munster Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 The real problem at the moment for AA isn't getting a CVA accepted by the required %age of creditors, but being able to put one on the table in the first place. A CVA is an offer of some pence in the pound to settle debts. In order to offer some pence in the pound you need money. Without a buyer, he hasn't got any. AA himself acknowledged recently that to go down the CVA route, Chainrai will have to put more cash into the club now. Would you? In normal instances that's true, but what if (hypothetically, of course) AA determines that Gay boy has the magical 75%, and since this debt is, ahem, exaggerated, he is more than willing to accept 75% of whatever AA can extract from the PFC corpse (they do have future parachute money, in theory)? I think you will find the percentages can not change once the administration was announced, and additional debts are down to the administrator New debts, yes. But not if the administrator uncovers previously "unreported debts" (which appears to be happening, with the debt somehow going up to about £100 million). Also, AA has a past record of inflating the status of select creditors: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/portsmouth/article7069905.ece HMRC and a spread-betting firm then known as Tradindex had opposed the IVA, which needed approval from three-quarters of Ahmed’s creditors. The fashion boss had run up more than £4m in gambling debts. But the IVA was successful because Andronikou had accepted the validity of £8m in alleged loans to Ahmed from members of his family, thereby making them creditors and giving them a vote on the IVA. I believe AA has been caught out by a high court judge doing this once before, so he wouldn't dare try that one again Don't be too sure. I wouldn't put anything past that cesspit of a club. CHEATING BASTARDS.
StuRomseySaint Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 Reeeeeeeeeeeeeey, my first bit of breaking news on this thread. Their 'trust' had a meeting tonight to discuss things, and they have released the breakdown of the debts... £32m Gaydamak Trust £5m Al Fahim £1.8m Al-Faraj £5m General creditors £17-£18m HMRC (£9m disputed) £16-£17m Football creditors £14m Portpin £8-£9m Agents (to be confirmed) Oh dear!!! They are dooooooooooooooooooooooooooomed!!!
Saint Keith Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 Reeeeeeeeeeeeeey, my first bit of breaking news on this thread. Their 'trust' had a meeting tonight to discuss things, and they have released the breakdown of the debts... £32m Gaydamak Trust £5m Al Fahim £1.8m Al-Faraj £5m General creditors £17-£18m HMRC (£9m disputed) £16-£17m Football creditors £14m Portpin £8-£9m Agents (to be confirmed) Oh dear!!! They are dooooooooooooooooooooooooooomed!!! £101.8M foooking hell :smt040
StuRomseySaint Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 Well I think that confirms that they will start next season on at least -15, not a hope in hell of them finding someone to stump of £75m to keep everyone happy.
St Jim Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/frattonlatest/Pompey-star-can-play-in.6213752.jp What a farce. The club did not know that the trigger for Dindane was 22 games not 20. Someone is playing games here and I don't mean football. How funny would it be though it he plays in the Semi Final but Poopey have got it all wrong and it was infact a 20 or 21 game trigger and they have to pay the $4m. It certainly does sound fishy though - AG on record hinting he would play a weakened team in the PL ........
benjii Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 Well I think that confirms that they will start next season on at least -15, not a hope in hell of them finding someone to stump of £75m to keep everyone happy. You don't have to pay 75% of the debt, you have to pay a proportion of the debt that 75%, in value, of the creditors agree to to achieve a CVA. If that happens then the unsecured creditors are bound by that agreement. But I agree with your gist..... they're in all sorts of bovver and no mistakin Mister.
StuRomseySaint Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 This is some of the text from the Pompey Online Admin Has my view on him changed - Difficult to answer this without saying too much about the situation, so will duck out of this one. How much are we in debt? - Approximately 100m, broken down as; £32m Gaydamak Trust £5m Al Fahim £1.8m Al-Faraj £5m General creditors £17-£18m HMRC (£9m disputed) £16-£17m Football creditors £14m Portpin £8-£9m Agents (to be confirmed) CVA - Creditors meeting in next four weeks to agree CVA Why is he determining future strategy - Not asked directly but basically said that they have to plan the club accordingly to make sure it is a going concern going forward. Main priority is to make sure we have a club. How many interested parties - Mentioned the twelve or so original parties, but said that most of them couldn't even get the £5 million original fee together, and Cattermole even wanted his flights from new Zealand paid for by the club. Rob Lloyd group is only realistic group as things stand today Has anyone else provided proof of funds - Two groups provided POF but he wasn't happy with one of them. Two groups merged into one. (Sorry another phone call, so will hurry this up) Rob Lloyd - Is happy that proof of funds is there but needs convincing/confirmation about the structure of the backers. Chainrai - Is very much a Plan B, Plan A is to sell to another buyer, we put across the concerns. March's wages - Paid for by revenue produced by club Forensic examination has started.
rallyboy Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 the agents and football creditor amounts seem to have climbed steeply since the last count up, have their traditional transfer contacts thought up a new way of getting cash via false invoicing? And a tip for AA - writing 'disputed' in brackets doesn't make it go away. That red herring that gathers more interest every day is based on restructuring the way that VAT itself is run in this country and will cost a couple of million in legal fees just to pursue, let alone win, which they won't. Lucky they have that squad worth £38M or it could look like they've been trading insolvently for six months, cheating on the pitch, misleading the Prem and the FA for gain, and the directors would be facing prison sentences. And the forensic accounting - this was AA's first job, surely he couldn't do anything else without knowing the detail and history. Odd that it only starts now....
benjii Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 They owe Al-Faraj £2m. I wonder if that football creditors figure is liabilities that have fallen due or whether it includes future liabilities?
StuRomseySaint Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 Oh, and he has also posted that all outgoing transfers have been settled apart from £1.5m for Gary O'Neill. LMFAO, so they have spunked ALL the money from the sales of... Diarra Benjani Muntari Defoe Johnson Distin Crouch Krancjar Kaboul Begovic
hypochondriac Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 The admin on pompeyonline is a strange fellow. Totally and utterly deluded as well.
jawillwill Posted 8 April, 2010 Posted 8 April, 2010 The admin on pompeyonline is a strange fellow. Totally and utterly deluded as well. It must be a football-forum-admin-thing.
St Jim Posted 9 April, 2010 Posted 9 April, 2010 This is some of the text from the Pompey Online Admin March's wages - Paid for by revenue produced by club I'm interested to know how they've managed to create 3.8m of revenue in a month
70's Mike Posted 9 April, 2010 Posted 9 April, 2010 I'm interested to know how they've managed to create 3.8m of revenue in a month there share of gate money from SMS must have helped, plus a couple of sell outs against Chelsea and Biringham in cup
equalizer Posted 9 April, 2010 Posted 9 April, 2010 Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but has anyone else seen their new kit? It looks as if Long John Silver's parrot has taken a dump on both the shoulders! lmao
Doctoroncall Posted 9 April, 2010 Posted 9 April, 2010 I'm interested to know how they've managed to create 3.8m of revenue in a month Maybe it's from the January sales of Begovic and Kaboul but that pot must be empty by now if it was also used for January and February wages. From those figures, anyone wanting to buy the club will have to agree to pay £25m football related creditors, possibly another £14m if HMRC doesn't dispute Portpins secured status before offering x pence in the pound to the unsecured creditors. Future income is 2x£16m parachute payments and ~£3m million in PL prize money and FA Cup income. Say player sales fetch a generous £14m. That then leaves around £10m to settle with the unsecured creditors amounting to ~£60m (max of 16p in the £) without dipping into their own pockets which they would have to to buy players after the exodus of most if not all the first teamers. They would then be relying on the season's income to match outgoings just to stablise the club's finances without adding to the debt.
CB Saint Posted 9 April, 2010 Posted 9 April, 2010 Reeeeeeeeeeeeeey, my first bit of breaking news on this thread. Their 'trust' had a meeting tonight to discuss things, and they have released the breakdown of the debts... £32m Gaydamak Trust £5m Al Fahim £1.8m Al-Faraj £5m General creditors £17-£18m HMRC (£9m disputed) £16-£17m Football creditors £14m Portpin £8-£9m Agents (to be confirmed) Oh dear!!! They are dooooooooooooooooooooooooooomed!!! So where doe sthis leave the HMRC in their ability to torpedo the CVA. Even if you knock off Portpin they haven't got 25%. £9m to agents??? WTF
hutch Posted 9 April, 2010 Posted 9 April, 2010 And a tip for AA - writing 'disputed' in brackets doesn't make it go away. That red herring that gathers more interest every day is based on restructuring the way that VAT itself is run in this country and will cost a couple of million in legal fees just to pursue, let alone win, which they won't. If I understand it correctly the dispute relates to whether VAT is payable on player sales. Pompey have received VAT from buyers, but haven't paid it to HMRC because they say it isn't due. If they lose they owe HMRC (with interest), and if they win (odds, anyone?) they have to give it back to the buyers. How does that affect their overall debt position?
hutch Posted 9 April, 2010 Posted 9 April, 2010 Some facts on this thread... Taking an average of 40 words per post, you have written 918,000 words. If it were made a paperback book, it would be over 2,500 pages long Reading a modest 2 hours a day, it would take you 34 days to read the entire thread. Sources: http://www.writersservices.com/wps/p_word_count.htm http://ezinearticles.com/?What-is-the-Average-Reading-Speed-and-the-Best-Rate-of-Reading?&id=2298503 Did you include reading all of the linked press reports and articles?
sidthesquid Posted 9 April, 2010 Posted 9 April, 2010 http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/frattonlatest/Pompey-star-can-play-in.6213752.jp What a farce. The club did not know that the trigger for Dindane was 22 games not 20. Someone is playing games here and I don't mean football. Yet another bit of cynical cheating. Even an organisation as inept as Poopey knew what number of games triggered the payment. My two guesses are that either they knew all along but pretended they thought it was twenty to keep him free for the semi, or perhaps more likely they have reached a deal with Lens to let him play two more games in exchange for continuing to pay him. Either way they are still CHEATS.
Weston Super Saint Posted 9 April, 2010 Posted 9 April, 2010 So where doe sthis leave the HMRC in their ability to torpedo the CVA. Even if you knock off Portpin they haven't got 25%. £9m to agents??? WTF Agents fees are football related, so I guess they would be prioritised along with Portpins £14m. Therefore HMRC would amount to £18m of the remaining £60 = more than 25%
dubai_phil Posted 9 April, 2010 Posted 9 April, 2010 Pretty damning article about Football and finance http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/european/7567899/Premier-League-clubs-are-finally-paying-the-price-for-the-culture-of-debt.html 48k a week for a squad player - seems the Skates aren't the only ones with more money than brains
Doctoroncall Posted 9 April, 2010 Posted 9 April, 2010 Agents fees are football related, so I guess they would be prioritised along with Portpins £14m. Therefore HMRC would amount to £18m of the remaining £60 = more than 25% Is it right to exclude the football debt as it still has to be repaid somehow and that is what a CVA is for. I'm sure I remember when Leeds came through Admin the players owed money had a vote.
pedg Posted 9 April, 2010 Posted 9 April, 2010 Is it right to exclude the football debt as it still has to be repaid somehow and that is what a CVA is for. I'm sure I remember when Leeds came through Admin the players owed money had a vote. I think you may be right as there is almost certainly a difference between how the FA etc categorise preferential debt compared to the legal interpretation of secured debts for a CVA.
benjii Posted 9 April, 2010 Posted 9 April, 2010 Is it right to exclude the football debt as it still has to be repaid somehow and that is what a CVA is for. I'm sure I remember when Leeds came through Admin the players owed money had a vote. Yes, this is correct. The "football creditors rule" has no direct legal effect, much like the "Fit and Proper Persons Test".
Doctoroncall Posted 9 April, 2010 Posted 9 April, 2010 From this link: http://www.mightyleeds.co.uk/seasons/200708part1.htm "Among those voting against were HMRC, the Football League, Gerald Krasner, Melvyn Levi, Simon Morris, Kevin Blackwell and David Healy. The margin of success was £70,683 on a total vote of £36.1m and it would have taken only a couple of parties to change their vote for the deal to have been blocked." So Gaydamak is key to the CVA with ~30% block vote. The buyer could get away with paying a pitance only leaving any investigation (if there is to be one) into financial irregularities to a points deduction.
benjii Posted 9 April, 2010 Posted 9 April, 2010 Gaydamak is very important. Let's not forget that the land he owns around Fratton has nothing to do with his debt either so he can continue to make things awkward if he wants.
hutch Posted 9 April, 2010 Posted 9 April, 2010 I think I'm right in saying that Leeds had the points deducted anyway, even though the CVA was approved (just) by more than 75% of the unsecured creditors. The Football League don't like cheats!
Guided Missile Posted 9 April, 2010 Posted 9 April, 2010 It looks like a number of Pompey players will be taking an early summer break, according to this article. It is one of the most extraordinary and bizarre scenarios ever to confront an FA Cup semi-final team. Andronikou added: "This affects five or six players who will not be allowed to play after the semi-final, and one who might not be allowed to play in the semi-final. "This all revolves around clauses in their current contracts which mean that the semi-final triggers a set number of games that either means the player is entitled, automatically, to have his contract renewed for next season, or that it triggers a variety of cash payments ranging from £100,000 to £50,000. "So, if a player plays at Wembley he would trigger a new contract the club cannot afford, or if he reaches 20 or 25 games, it triggers cash payments, some of £100,000. These bullet payments means that they can play in the semi-final, but not play another game after it, unless they waiver those payments."
benjii Posted 9 April, 2010 Posted 9 April, 2010 Ahh, the unbelievable tekkers of football contracts expert and government Tsar, Peter Storrie, manifests itself again beautifully.
View From The Top Posted 9 April, 2010 Posted 9 April, 2010 Don't the FL insist on all footballing debts being cleared in full and if they are not it's a points deduction? Their league. Their rules.
Wes Tender Posted 9 April, 2010 Posted 9 April, 2010 Just had a good laugh at this that has just appeared. http://www.portsmouth.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=194690 If it is accurte, it seems that half the team that play at Wembley will probably be playing their last game for the Skates, as contractual clauses mean that either they will have to be offered new contracts, or they will be due large bonus payments. Naturally, Admin Andy is not in a position to offer either. So in the unlikely event that the Skates beat Spurs on Sunday, those players would either not be available to play in the FA Cup final, or else they would have to waive their right to the bonus, or accept new contracts at vastly reduced salary for next year in the Fizzy Pop league. Much as I have been a detractor of Rupes, he at least had the foresight to enter clauses into players' contracts that their salary would be halved in the event of relegation. For all that Storrie was paid considerably more than Lowe, he doesn't appear to have been as canny as Lowe in this regard.
krissyboy31 Posted 9 April, 2010 Posted 9 April, 2010 Don't the FL insist on all footballing debts being cleared in full and if they are not it's a points deduction? Their league. Their rules. Not just points deduction they need to do this for their 'Golden Share'.
krissyboy31 Posted 9 April, 2010 Posted 9 April, 2010 It looks like a number of Pompey players will be taking an early summer break, according to this article. It is one of the most extraordinary and bizarre scenarios ever to confront an FA Cup semi-final team. Andronikou added: "This affects five or six players who will not be allowed to play after the semi-final, and one who might not be allowed to play in the semi-final. "This all revolves around clauses in their current contracts which mean that the semi-final triggers a set number of games that either means the player is entitled, automatically, to have his contract renewed for next season, or that it triggers a variety of cash payments ranging from £100,000 to £50,000. "So, if a player plays at Wembley he would trigger a new contract the club cannot afford, or if he reaches 20 or 25 games, it triggers cash payments, some of £100,000. These bullet payments means that they can play in the semi-final, but not play another game after it, unless they waiver those payments." ROFL! And poor old Avram will carry on whingeing about how unfair it is and it's the football authorities fault. Tw*t!
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