mcjwills Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 As they are likely to be in administration are they still guarenteed the parachute payments and also their money from the PL season? Could the PL hold that money for their football related debts .I suspect they are due those monies but I thought Id ask. I would expect that the administrator will immediately send back any loan players to help cut the wage bill As I said above are not the parachute payments revenue to be taken into account when assesing how much should be paid to the creditors.
View From The Top Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 I knew that but I'm not sure about the legal position. The CVA, if there is one, looks after the creditors. The football debts have to be 100% settled or there is no licence plus all the malarkey of points deductions etc. The FL are no pushover and turned Fry over. This is going to run and run. So, when they get relegated, if they are still in administration, if they don't clear their footballing debts they will recieve -10 points from the FL?
gaz Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 Does the SOA saying they are insolvent (like everyone expects it does) make a difference to Admin? I mean, from the date it was completed and handed in, to the day Admin takes place, a week or so....the SOA will say they are trading illegally by existing and thats its proven - thats got to have massive implications to anyone looking to take over the club during Admin, right?
andysstuff Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 I can tell you on good authority that RL was told by the top london lawyers that the League could not give us the -10 penalty . Let's hope Chanari is employing the same set of Lawyers then. :-)
derry Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 As I said above are not the parachute payments revenue to be taken into account when assesing how much should be paid to the creditors. The FA could pay the football creditors as they did with the tv money in January. There is about another £12m due in transfer payments. I wouldn't bet against Pompey getting nothing this year.
Winchester Red Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 Quite a clever plan to avoid blame actually Pass it to the administrator Administrator winds it up Not my fault guv
derry Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 So, when they get relegated, if they are still in administration, if they don't clear their footballing debts they will recieve -10 points from the FL? Or more. They apparently have to have the CVA and and if not accept any imposed penalties before they get the licence to play. It happened to us even though we didn't need a CVA.
70's Mike Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 still the good people of portsmouth will rally in their thousands to buy season tickets and fill fratton silly me they had that chance last weekend and 17k turned up. talk about only watch when youre winning. the football authorities should ban storrie for life and throw the book at them for making a mockery of football
TheSaint75 Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 What the **** was that on Sky Sports News? John W******d's wife? They couldn't have found a more hideous looking man/woman as a spokesperson, I swear she had stubble!
aintforever Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 Does the administrator have any claim to future payments? Doesn't seem fair that HRMC and the other creditors will get 1p in the pound when future parachute payments will be due to the club.
pap Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 Sorry boys, cba to read whole thread. Sure someone has asked this before. Will Pompey catch the -10 next year if they're relegated through results?
TheSaint75 Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 If a CVA needs to be agreed with all creditors surely HMRC could veto any agreement, meaning further points deductions in the CCC?
Weston Saint Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 South Today - "Who will be the Administrator? Vantis apparently priced themselves out" lol.
Fowllyd Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 South Today - "Who will be the Administrator? Vantis apparently priced themselves out" lol. Which suggests that they don't want to take it on. Not too surprising, given that they produced the statement of affairs so they'll know exactly how heavily the chalice is poisoned.
Weston Saint Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 Which suggests that they don't want to take it on. Not too surprising, given that they produced the statement of affairs so they'll know exactly how heavily the chalice is poisoned.Exactly
DrZuess1979 the 2nd Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 What does the lowest stand at right now? 16? Derby 11 07/08 thanks wiki
Gigersaint Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 During the last few months I read somewhere that due to levels of debt and financial mismanagement that they could possibly even be refused entry to the FL if relegated. I can't be sure where I read it, whether it was on this thread sometime back, a newspaper report or somewhere on other football forums. I'll keep looking to see if I can find it but in the meantime does anyone else know if this could be the case now relegation looks a real certainty with them going into Admin?
JackFrost Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 South Today - "Who will be the Administrator? Vantis apparently priced themselves out" lol. So has an administrator not been appointed?
Dark Munster Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 I can tell you on good authority that RL was told by the top london lawyers that the League could not give us the -10 penalty . No excuse. Anyone with half a brain would've gone into administration 4 days earlier, just to be on the safe side.
Weston Saint Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 So has an administrator not been appointed?No notice of Administration only at this stage. Appointment will be likely be over the weekend. I suspect Chainrai has someone lined up, he is just not saying.
Gorgiesaint Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 Right I've just got in from work & I've been trawling through todays mountain of updates but I can't find an answer to a question that has bugged me for most of the day: How can Chainrai be both the owner of PFC and a creditor? Surely if he is a creditor (and not the owner) then who is the owner & why is he negotiating the sale of the club? Therefore he must be the owner, so surely he cannot be a secured creditor as well (because his investment will form part of the capital of the company)? If thats the case then he cannot put the club into admin & liquidation is the only option. Second point, if administrators take over, surely they will have to refer the transfer of the asset (if thats what you can call FP) to Chainrai to reduce his debt by £10m to the court for approval. At that point, they will surely look at the SoA? Anyone with any idea's?
Weston Saint Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 No excuse. Anyone with half a brain would've gone into administration 4 days earlier, just to be on the safe side.We were solvent then, we had the backing of the bank and were still looking for investors/buyers. The bank suprisingly (for Lowe & Cowan) pulling the plug was the trigger for insolvency. Admin was not sought until that time. .
Glasgow_Saint Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 The Administrator may (hopefully) send on-loan players back to their parent clubs to cut the wage bill! Fingers crossed!
Weston Saint Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 Right I've just got in from work & I've been trawling through todays mountain of updates but I can't find an answer to a question that has bugged me for most of the day: How can Chainrai be both the owner of PFC and a creditor? Surely if he is a creditor (and not the owner) then who is the owner & why is he negotiating the sale of the club? Therefore he must be the owner, so surely he cannot be a secured creditor as well (because his investment will form part of the capital of the company)? If thats the case then he cannot put the club into admin & liquidation is the only option. Second point, if administrators take over, surely they will have to refer the transfer of the asset (if thats what you can call FP) to Chainrai to reduce his debt by £10m to the court for approval. At that point, they will surely look at the SoA? Anyone with any idea's? It is a question that is puzzling many on here including me.
beatlesaint Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 I can tell you on good authority that RL was told by the top london lawyers that the League could not give us the -10 penalty . Yeah and I can say without fear of contradiction that they, and he, were wrong !
Matthew Le God Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 The Administrator may (hopefully) send on-loan players back to their parent clubs to cut the wage bill! Fingers crossed! Why fingers crossed? If they go into administration they will have 7 points and relegation will happen, loan players or not.
Weston Saint Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 The Administrator may (hopefully) send on-loan players back to their parent clubs to cut the wage bill! Fingers crossed!Unless Chainrai pays the loanee's wages I think you might be right. But they are fooked anyway so no real benefit to keep them unless contracts tie them to Poopy
andysstuff Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 No excuse. Anyone with half a brain would've gone into administration 4 days earlier, just to be on the safe side. Which sort of brings me back to my original query as to whether they are 100% certain they can enter Admin. HMRC have been very quiet throughout all this. do they have an Ace up their sleeves?
Kingsland Red Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 I think until the HMRC / court have confirmed their stand point on the WUO; the issue of owner/creditor; the legal implications of the SoA probably indicating PFC trading insolvently; and their confidence in the ability of an administrator to keep the company trading for 31 days, we are running with the unchallenged Chainrai doctrine. This may all prove to be dwarfed by the income v outgoings anyway.
St Landrew Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 Just on Solent, Pompey have issued a statement that they are making preparations to go into administration on Friday, this week. Apologies if this has been posted earlier.
Winchester Red Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 Just on Solent, Pompey have issued a statement that they are making preparations to go into administration on Friday, this week. Apologies if this has been posted earlier. Just the last 6 pages
Under Weststand Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 report on Solent now that due to a legal technicality,Barclays Bank can appoint an administrator, They could let Poopey choose one, but if they don't like it they can then appoint one themselves.
andysstuff Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 I think until the HMRC / court have confirmed their stand point on the WUO; the issue of owner/creditor; the legal implications of the SoA probably indicating PFC trading insolvently; and their confidence in the ability of an administrator to keep the company trading for 31 days, we are running with the unchallenged Chainrai doctrine. This may all prove to be dwarfed by the income v outgoings anyway. All this up to now could look like a walk in the park compared to how messy this could get over the coming days and weeks!
bridge too far Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 report on Solent now that due to a legal technicality,Barclays Bank can appoint an administrator, They could let Poopey choose one, but if they don't like it they can then appoint one themselves. Why I wonder? I didn't think they had any bank accounts.
sidthesquid Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 Because we are slightly biased If this was about Luton going under or i don't know Bolton. Would we have the same 333 pages? Probably not! We might next time as we are all hopeless liquidation junkies now.
dubai_phil Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 And finally... 4 consortiums in meetings all day. Let's change the wording and call them what they were - Groups of people with an interest in affairs at PCFC. What are the objectives of interested parties? The Directors - Allegedly to try and cover their tracks but maybe to try and find a new owner HMRC - 1) Try to get paid their dues 2) Stop future losses 3) Teach Football a lesson The FAPL - To keep PCFC running to the end of the season to avoid a complete mess of the PL and the expunging of results Chanrai et al - 1) To avoid having to pay out any more money 2) To get a profit from the land that they hold Now with the WUO as the nuclear option, nobody in that group gets anywhere near to a satisfactory solution. So, potentially another idea can emerge. A deal can be carved out. Administration COULD work IF the FAPL can find a vehicle that does not let them pay the TV revenue in advance BUT allows the Administrator to keep the club running even with Academy players. There will have to be a balance there, they will have to show some form of competitiveness or teams who dropped points may complain Administration saves the FAPL's ass. Administration allows HMRC to have the HOPE that a buyer could be found (same motivation as the Directors) so that SOME of the due money will be recovered. WITH a vehicle to fund the club to the end of the season the HMRC will also gain more income. This could be shown to be a good deal for them Where does that leave the "owners" we saw with Saints they will be at the bottom of the hand out pile, so for them their BEST outcome remains the club is bought with new owners building a new ground on council land OR the club dies at the end of the season when they can build the squash court apartments and Tesco's. So tick tock again, the takeover charade can continue until the day they are relegated. We've all analysed the maths a takeover seems impossible, so as Sherlock says, when you are left with the impossible then that is the answer. Admin brushes the mess under the carpet People get the chance to get money back and (lol) sell the club So the question remains - who could the 4th group have been? Buyers or some form of financing operation? I smell a deal being done. If it has been then I don't see this as a victory for the few in their fight for survival. And don't worry "Indignant" of West End may not have to wait too long for the final curtain
saintds Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 Why I wonder? I didn't think they had any bank accounts. According to Solent, Barclays have a floating charge over the club/stadium (?) from several years ago. They didn't elaborate further. Quelle surprise - yet more unanswered questions, just when we though the end was in sight...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 report on Solent now that due to a legal technicality,Barclays Bank can appoint an administrator, They could let Poopey choose one, but if they don't like it they can then appoint one themselves. Why do I get the feeling that although Admin is supposed to make things clearer, that in fact it's getting murkier?
Winchester Red Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 report on Solent now that due to a legal technicality,Barclays Bank can appoint an administrator, They could let Poopey choose one, but if they don't like it they can then appoint one themselves. It does seem like poetic justice that they should have a hand in it somewhere
Under Weststand Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 Why I wonder? I didn't think they had any bank accounts. Don't really understand it BTF Just reporting what Tony Husband just been saying. Seems like a long standing legal standpoint that they have??? maybe are insolvency experts can shed a little light on it.
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 Why I wonder? I didn't think they had any bank accounts. In that same statement on Solent it was said that Barclays still have a charge of some sort over the club relating to some time ago. That's interesting in that it seems that Barclays have made no comments while charges and mortgages were being raised or issued on any chance of income!
Guided Missile Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 According to Solent, Barclays have a floating charge over the club/stadium (?) from several years ago. They didn't elaborate further. Quelle surprise - yet more unanswered questions, just when we though the end was in sight... The numbnuts in charge at Portsmouth must have failed to get the legal charge removed. This must mean that there is some form of ongoing liability, perhaps in the form of additional interest or bank charges or that Storrey was just inept...quelle surprise...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 It does seem like poetic justice that they should have a hand in it somewhere They certainly do seem to be Premier League at Administration!
Weston Super Saint Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 Why I wonder? I didn't think they had any bank accounts. If you look at the article in the News - maybe 20 or 30 pages back now - with the pictogram of who owns what, then Barclays are co-creditors along with Gaydamak for all the parcels of land around Fratton. Presumably then, Gaydamak gave himself these bits of land, mortgaged them to the hilt with Barclays, to pay the wages, and then claims he would be happy to pay the mortgage payments to Barclays when Pompey pay him his dues So many different owners of so many different pieces of the puzzle it's hard to see how an administrator will know what needs administrating by the end of next week, let alone the end of this week
Winchester Red Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 (edited) I thought the PL were in favour of forwarding money if PFC took a penalty? Which means, in admin with a 9 point penalty, maybe they are providing the money? Which means...... In CC next year with no parachute they will quite literally be free falling Edited 23 February, 2010 by Winchester Red
bridge too far Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 According to Solent, Barclays have a floating charge over the club/stadium (?) from several years ago. They didn't elaborate further. Quelle surprise - yet more unanswered questions, just when we though the end was in sight... So Chummyrai will have to fork out a bit more to get rid of this legal charge before he can claim to own the ground 100%? Is that how it works?
dubai_phil Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 In that same statement on Solent it was said that Barclays still have a charge of some sort over the club relating to some time ago. That's interesting in that it seems that Barclays have made no comments while charges and mortgages were being raised or issued on any chance of income! Oops. Now THAT could be really funny.. But Mr Chanrai, you must have noticed that while you were doing Due Dilligence? So what you are saying Peter is that you could never give me the stadium as security for my loans in the first place? Well Balou, maybe not exactly, I'll check it and get back to you in say 48 hours?
Guided Missile Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 Presumably then, Gaydamak gave himself these bits of land, mortgaged them to the hilt with Barclays, to pay the wages, and then claims he would be happy to pay the mortgage payments to Barclays when Pompey pay him his dues Good call...
Under Weststand Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 All of a sudden the thread gathers a new lease of life & off we go again, this is just compelling. I just feel that the S**t hasn't really hit the fan yet, I can't wait until the real skeletons start tumbling out of the cupboard.
Winchester Red Posted 23 February, 2010 Posted 23 February, 2010 It would be bloody funny if Storrie had f*cked up by giving the land as security to Chainrai when it was already security on a previous loan from Barclays. Get out of that one F*ckwit
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