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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella
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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
. . .which Pompey have recently insisted is the case, (so they don't have to pay the transfer fee)

 

the two league cups games make the difference. Lens say they count, the skates say the don't.

 

so they will have to either pay the £3m fee or pay a fine for having too many loanees in the squad. I presume Dindane's registration must be ratified by the Premier League/FA before he can play games, so this should be a formality?

Pancake

Pancake

Posted
Posted
the two league cups games make the difference. Lens say they count, the skates say the don't.

 

so they will have to either pay the £3m fee or pay a fine for having too many loanees in the squad. I presume Dindane's registration must be ratified by the Premier League/FA before he can play games, so this should be a formality?

 

2 problems. 1 they are potless, and 2 they are barred from paying for any transfers.

Goalie66

Goalie66

Posted
Posted
Just to clarify, Poopey go to court and HMRC are'nt happy with what is presented which is looking odds on - will Pompey cease to exsist there and then?

 

Yep

pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
the two league cups games make the difference. Lens say they count, the skates say the don't.

 

so they will have to either pay the £3m fee or pay a fine for having too many loanees in the squad. I presume Dindane's registration must be ratified by the Premier League/FA before he can play games, so this should be a formality?

 

So even with pompey's version he can only play once more till it becomes active?

angelman

angelman

Posted
Posted
Just to clarify, Poopey go to court and HMRC are'nt happy with what is presented which is looking odds on - will Pompey cease to exsist there and then?

 

are you sure that's it? HMRC have already said that they aren't happy and have closed them down but the judge left room to appeal, which is what's happening on Wednesday. If the judge says that the original ruling stands then that's it. However, a deal can be done out of court with HMRC in the next couple of days. Can new "evidence" (so to speak) be introduced in court on Wednesday?

Channon's Sideburns

Channon's Sideburns

Posted
Posted
No, I think it's a case that they struck a deal with Lens in the summer to loan the player with a built in clause that once he's made x appearances, he is automatically a Pompey player, and a transfer fee kicks in. This was an existing agreement so wouldn't be covered by the embargo that came in in October.The number of games was supposedly 14, but Pompey claim to have agreed 22 (which Lens dispute). Either way, surely it's just a case of pulling out the contract and taking a look. How ****in hard can it be? Having said that, I'm assuming Pompey can find someone who can read....

 

Not only that, but, M'Lud, I bring you the evidence of Pompey v Newcastle in the transfer of Michael Williamson.

 

Storrie - 'Ere Doris, you got the paperwork for Williamson..I'm sellin 'im to Newquay'

 

Doris - 'Newcastle Peter....what's the selling price?'

 

Storrie - 'You know me Doris, I did a fantastic deal - the fans will love me more for this. Managed to offload him for £950k - blindin' deal'.

 

Doris - 'But Peter, we paid Watford £3M for him only 6 months ago'

 

Storrie - 'No we didn't - that was Kaboul wasn't it? Doris????'

 

Doris - 'Peter, did anyone check this? We've got to pay Watford £1.2M if we sell him'

 

Storrie - 'Nah....oh shi...'

Goalie66

Goalie66

Posted
Posted

If Pompey go into Admin then they have to submit in writing a request to still stay in the FA Cup according to FA Rules. Then and it is discretionery by the FA can they play.

Given the chaos at Fratton Park I just wander they might forget !!! Now that would be ironic

pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted (edited)
are you sure that's it? HMRC have already said that they aren't happy and have closed them down but the judge left room to appeal, which is what's happening on Wednesday. If the judge says that the original ruling stands then that's it. However, a deal can be done out of court with HMRC in the next couple of days. Can new "evidence" (so to speak) be introduced in court on Wednesday?

 

Thing is the Judge gave them the option to appeal but they can only appeal about a point of tax law that would have fairly major ramifications if successful. Because of its importance it's not something that is going to be resolved in a short period of time. There is no concrete evidence that they have taken up that option of an appeal (i.e. we ignore anything Jacob's and Story say and look for firm evidence instead!). At the moment it appears that they are staking the house on an 'appeal' to the judge to postpone the WUO. That's a lot different for a formal appeal of a point of law.

Edited by pedg
n
Chin Strain

Chin Strain

Posted
Posted
2 problems. 1 they are potless, and 2 they are barred from paying for any transfers.

 

Potless yes, barred from buying anyone yes....but since the deal was struck in August, and it's contracual prior to the embargo, then it's allowed. Imagine how ****ed off Lens would be if they wriggled out of it that way!

Goalie66

Goalie66

Posted
Posted
are you sure that's it? HMRC have already said that they aren't happy and have closed them down but the judge left room to appeal, which is what's happening on Wednesday. If the judge says that the original ruling stands then that's it. However, a deal can be done out of court with HMRC in the next couple of days. Can new "evidence" (so to speak) be introduced in court on Wednesday?

 

Please remember that HMRC have to agree to accept any deal and that payment be made before Wednesday. I do not think HMRC are in any mood for a deal and what to use this case as both a warning and cope de gras to Football in general.

Chin Strain

Chin Strain

Posted
Posted
If Pompey go into Admin then they have to submit in writing a request to still stay in the FA Cup according to FA Rules. Then and it is discretionery by the FA can they play.

Given the chaos at Fratton Park I just wander they might forget !!! Now that would be ironic

 

Palace are in admin and they're allowed to continue. That won't be a problem. Liquidation, however, and the gates are shut Wednesday night, and they're out...of everything....forever.

CHAPEL END CHARLIE

CHAPEL END CHARLIE

Posted
Posted
Burning is safer..apparently they can piece together all shredded material:D

 

Smoke coming out of the chimney at Fratton;)

 

Nah , you're thinking of the Vatican .

 

Is the Pope a pompey fan ? I think we should we should be told . :confused:

Channon's Sideburns

Channon's Sideburns

Posted
Posted
Please remember that HMRC have to agree to accept any deal and that payment be made before Wednesday. I do not think HMRC are in any mood for a deal and what to use this case as both a warning and cope de gras to Football in general.

 

May I be the first to say, before Wednesday....

 

F5

Saints foreva

Saints foreva

Posted
Posted
If Pompey go into Admin then they have to submit in writing a request to still stay in the FA Cup according to FA Rules. Then and it is discretionery by the FA can they play.

Given the chaos at Fratton Park I just wander they might forget !!! Now that would be ironic

 

I don't remember Crystal Palace having to do that.

Guan 2.0

Guan 2.0

Posted
Posted
Pretty sure you are allowed 6 in the match day squad.

 

EDIT: I cant find anything in the FA rules but numerous websites list it as 5.

 

Anyone have the relevant emails of the echo/national journo's who could clarify this? All in the interests of research purposes of course...

Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
So even with pompey's version he can only play once more till it becomes active?

 

I am wrong. The original agreement was 11 games and then the deal became permanent. When he played 11 games Pompey could not buy anyone so the two clubs renogotiated the deal. I would GUESS that the deal included a clause that said if the transfer embargo was lifted then Pompey would have to buy him outright. It has been lifted, but not to the extent where they can actually buy him - so there lies the difference in opinion.

so22saint

so22saint

Posted
Posted
Please remember that HMRC have to agree to accept any deal and that payment be made before Wednesday. I do not think HMRC are in any mood for a deal and what to use this case as both a warning and cope de gras to Football in general.

 

Not least of which, with UK PLC £200B in debt, HMRC are clawing "everything" they can and with the levels of foreign ownership in the UK in Football, no doubt leading to all kinds of creative accounting, they need to send a signal...

BigShadow

BigShadow

Posted
Posted

Posted on 5th Feb

4 days left to find the money. 1 of those days is a sunday so 3 days really.

 

Should be an f5 day on weds then :)

 

May I be the first to say, before Wednesday....

 

F5

 

I think St Marco beat you to that by a few days. ;)

pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
I am wrong. The original agreement was 11 games and then the deal became permanent. When he played 11 games Pompey could not buy anyone so the two clubs renogotiated the deal. I would GUESS that the deal included a clause that said if the transfer embargo was lifted then Pompey would have to buy him outright. It has been lifted, but not to the extent where they can actually buy him - so there lies the difference in opinion.

 

I guess the thing is the initial agreement was made before the ban so would probably have been okay (if they had the money) but the renegotiated one was made during the ban so its probably up to our old friends the lawyers to try and figure that one out (though it may be a moot point anyway?).

Wibble

Wibble

Posted
Posted
Anyone have the relevant emails of the echo/national journo's who could clarify this? All in the interests of research purposes of course...

 

I have emailed the full details to The Premier League...all in the interest of clarification purposes of course.

hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted

The most realistic outcome on Wednesday, IMHO, is that, if it goes to Court, they will be liquidated.

 

The real question is will it get to Court on Wednesday. I'd say it's unlikely.

pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
So what is the most realistic out-come Wednesday????

 

IMO chances of having the WUO postpones are minimal. Likely scenarios are:

 

1) Into receivership before the WUO. Safest option but guarantees relegation.

2) A deal done with HMRC who withdraw WUO. Would almost certainly need indication of new money coming in.

3) Go to court and given more time to pay

4) PFC Wound up and Liquidated.

 

Of those I would plump for 1 but which is the most realistic I don't know.

angelman

angelman

Posted
Posted

do they have to pay BEFORE Wednesday and then claim it back if found in their favour, or can they go to court, have the ruling stand and then produce a brown envelope or two stuffed with £50s?

Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
So what is the most realistic out-come Wednesday????

 

1) They go into Admin today or tomorrow, but time is ticking on and it doesn't seem like that is the path they want to go down.

 

2) They roll the dice and gamble. They have requested a stay of execution, stating that they will pay but need more time. I'm guessing that this is what will happen and they will be granted 28 days as per Notts County, to come up with the money.

 

My money would be on the 2nd scenario, but if Chairai, does get to keep the land as a creditor, then he will at least come out of it with something. The 28 days will buy him time to see if he can flog the club for anymore or not

dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
So what is the most realistic out-come Wednesday????

 

There will not be any "signals"

 

There will not be any room for sentiment or emotive pleas

 

The law says this, the question will be asked and the law will decide if the answer is legally acceptable and the evidence is factual and makes any of the situation expedient or extenuating under the law.

 

If it is not legally acceptable then the judge will read the law book that states the exact terminology of how and what the content must be when he makes his judgement.

 

there ain't no emotion in law, just grey greyer and confusing.

 

(Business Studies, Year One How the Law works)

 

ANYTHING - else emotional appeals, dodgy deals etc will have to be done BEFORE they enter court

hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted

Either. They have to pay up before, in which case the petition will be withdrawn, or prove that they can and will pay. Having the cash at the Court, while unorthodox, would probably suffice.

Weston Saint

Weston Saint

Posted
Posted

Just a thought. Could HMRC call Pompey's bluff on there being a couple of interested parties and put them into Administration rather than a winding up order. Is that what Storrie wants? "Not my fault....HMRC did it?

Channon's Sideburns

Channon's Sideburns

Posted
Posted
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=738464&sec=england&cc=5739

Soccernet
can reveal that lawyers representing Portsmouth were locked in crisis talks with the lawyers of HM Revenue & Customs on Monday in a last-ditch bit to ward off Wednesday's winding-up order.

--

Looks like a rehash of earlier story with that bit tagged on top.

 

Well, that could tell us why Jacobs is still on board, him being a lawyer and all.

hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=738464&sec=england&cc=5739

Soccernet
can reveal that lawyers representing Portsmouth were locked in crisis talks with the lawyers of HM Revenue & Customs on Monday in a last-ditch bit to ward off Wednesday's winding-up order.

--

Looks like a rehash of earlier story with that bit tagged on top.

Of course they are. The only reason Chainrai excercised his lien.

 

If it fails they will be in admin tomorrow.

Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
Just a thought. Could HMRC call Pompey's bluff on there being a couple of interested parties and put them into Administration rather than a winding up order. Is that what Storrie wants? "Not my fault....HMRC did it?

 

I don't think so, but not 100% sure.

 

I would hazard a guess though, that admin is the very last thing story wants. Not only would he be out on his ear, but the accounts will be laid bare to everybody and if as many suspect that they have been trading insolvently, he could not only face charges, but be persobally liable for some or all of the debt.

altoniansaints

altoniansaints

Posted
Posted
I am waiting for my source (the guy who spilled the beans to me in the first place) to give me permission to spill a bit more on what's going on behind the scenes. As he has not got back yet all I can say it's not looking good for them and steps might have already been put in place for administration. I will post as soon as I can, but a lot of what is going on is obviously pretty sensitive.

 

have you got permission yet i`ve got work to do but am sat here waiting for you info!!!

GenevaSaint

GenevaSaint

Posted
Posted
IMO chances of having the WUO postpones are minimal. Likely scenarios are:

 

1) Into receivership before the WUO. Safest option but guarantees relegation.

2) A deal done with HMRC who withdraw WUO. Would almost certainly need indication of new money coming in.

3) Go to court and given more time to pay

4) PFC Wound up and Liquidated.

 

Of those I would plump for 1 but which is the most realistic I don't know.

 

It would seem from their insistence that there are likely investors they're going for option 3. Notts County got 28 days grace on the back of the "new investors" angle did they not.

Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted
IMO chances of having the WUO postpones are minimal. Likely scenarios are:

 

1) Into receivership before the WUO. Safest option but guarantees relegation.

2) A deal done with HMRC who withdraw WUO. Would almost certainly need indication of new money coming in.

3) Go to court and given more time to pay

4) PFC Wound up and Liquidated.

 

Of those I would plump for 1 but which is the most realistic I don't know.

 

A little problem here, there are now two partys who are on the petition, so they would have to buy them both off.:confused:

stevegrant

stevegrant

Posted
Posted
It would seem from their insistence that there are likely investors they're going for option 3. Notts County got 28 days grace on the back of the "new investors" angle did they not.

They were able to prove that there were genuine investors in talks though...

pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
It would seem from their insistence that there are likely investors they're going for option 3. Notts County got 28 days grace on the back of the "new investors" angle did they not.

 

Possibly but unless they have cast iron documention in place its a dangerous game to play as you don't get to try again if the judge does not believe you and goes for liquidation. IF you have the money in place then you negotiate with HMRC in advance to avoid that scenario. Given they are 'locked in discussion' I would suggest that they don't have any proof of new money coming in as otherwise the discussion would be a lot shorted.. 'Look HMRC here is a large pile of cash and we will pay you in the morning.. Fine we will withdraw the WUO'.

Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted
It would seem from their insistence that there are likely investors they're going for option 3. Notts County got 28 days grace on the back of the "new investors" angle did they not.

 

Yes....but they lied, the investors were a not as real as they made out, and with Poopys history!!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
A little problem here, there are now two partys who are on the petition, so they would have to buy them both off.:confused:

 

The money for the other is a lot less (60K I think I read somewhere) so if Chainrai can't run to that then they are not going to be able to sweet talk HMRC anyway.

Goalie66

Goalie66

Posted
Posted
Palace are in admin and they're allowed to continue. That won't be a problem. Liquidation, however, and the gates are shut Wednesday night, and they're out...of everything....forever.

 

Just to clarify Admin can only happen befor Wednesday.If they go that route then they COULD forget to apply to the FA to continue in the Cup.I realise that if the Winding up order is successful then they are dead, finito.

Goalie66

Goalie66

Posted
Posted
I don't remember Crystal Palace having to do that.

 

They would not still be in the FA Cup if they had't. Anyhow Palace went into admin several days before their Winding Up order and appear to not have the choatic mess of PCFC.

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