aintforever Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 Bexy there is no point being so melodramatic about this The very worst case scenario for Portsmouth is they end up where Luton Town are ground sharing with Havant & Waterlooville. Portsmouth will always have a football club and they will always be our rival. Like it or not financial trouble is an integral part of football nowadays, you cannot say you just wish them relegation, because that means administration anyway - the two are the same thing.
Kingsland Codger Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 Once again though, you can't blame their entire fanbase on the peurile actions of a handful of their more moronic fans. I was at that game, and yes I was as angry as anyone at the time, though it wasn't entirely unexpected, but I recognise that in fact a lot of the noise was coming from their fans trying to get the idiots to shut up. And plus, can you honestly say that Every Saints fan in the ground would have behaved impeccably had the situation been reversed? I seriously doubt it, because we have our fair share of idiot fans as well, as does every other club in England. A handful? The entire away end was sold out for a Cup game. There were thousands of them there and I discerned no such attempt from some of their fans to get the others to be quiet. You say it was entirely unexpected. I disagree. A minute of respect for the recently deceased isn't too much to ask, is it?
Thedelldays Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 look, they are not going to get a double relegation in one go...so it will probably be a start over the CCC or go pop.... the CCC is still higher than us
View From The Top Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 Bexy there is no point being so melodramatic about this He always has been a total drama queen.
Yeovil Saint Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 What percentage of Gadymak's overall fortune is his potential loss in the event of PFC going into administration? The answer to that may help deduce how genuine his 'I would never let the club go into administration because I couldn't afford it to' (or words to that effect) statement in that article is.... It doesn't really matter how much SG's worth, no-one likes to lose a few million when they don't have to. SG is reported to be owed between £29m and £35m out of the total debt of £60m-£90m. What are PFC's assets worth? If you sold every player on the club's books, about £15m? Fratton Park itself, about £10m? PFC doesn't own anything else of note does it? So if PFC did get wound up, SG gets about £10m-£15m of his money back, if Pompey stayed in the Premier League and continued being a going concern, SG would get all his money back - eventually.
OldNick Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 I firmly believe that Saints fans would have respected the silence if the positions were reversed. I wish i could be so confident. On that night there were a big crew of skates who would rarely gone to games. They were mindless and not a fair representation of the clubs fans. I still think they were out of order but I was not surprised. I never saw or heard what the Sky people said on the night. I did see the sky interviewer last night interviewing Ramsay and Song and he was begging them to praise Pompeys fight and kept trying to get them to say how they had fought.
Fishy_Friend Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 I firmly believe that Saints fans would have respected the silence if the positions were reversed. Well you are deluded then.
Thedelldays Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 saints fans MAY or MAY NOT have respected a mins silence in fratton the FACT is, they had supporters who didnt
Joensuu Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 look, they are not going to get a double relegation in one go...so it will probably be a start over the CCC or go pop.... the CCC is still higher than us But surely a year in the CCC will just prolong their suffering (and be great fun for us to watch)...
Thedelldays Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 But surely a year in the CCC will just prolong their suffering (and be great fun for us to watch)... we dont know...someone may pick them up on teh cheap and they will still be higher than us..
RedAndWhite91 Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 I just do not go for this entire tribal hatred lark. Surely anyone with a modicum of intelligence will agree with me. I consider myself an intelligent lad, and I go for the tribal hatred lark. I'm sure many other intelligent people on here would agree with me. I hate them. Don't try and take some moral high ground.
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 31 December, 2009 Author Posted 31 December, 2009 Try it and find out. Of the 5 I go to games with, all sensible middle aged middle class types, 4 want them to disappear. The 5th doesn't care as he's from Wolves and thus hates them. Rare that I agree with you but I can tell a similar story. In the pub the other day we did a poll and oput of 20 asked at least half wanted to see Pompey's complete demise. And give or take the odd loon they were all middle class non-violent sorts.
Sheaf Saint Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 A handful? The entire away end was sold out for a Cup game. There were thousands of them there and I discerned no such attempt from some of their fans to get the others to be quiet. You say it was entirely unexpected. I disagree. A minute of respect for the recently deceased isn't too much to ask, is it? No it shouldn't be too much to ask, but consider the circumstances. Our massive rivals come to SMS for the first time, the first time we have played them in any competition for over seven years, in an evening cup-game meaning plenty of drinking time before the match. Did you honestly expect every single one of them to respect the min's silence impeccably? Do you honestly believe that every single one of our fans would have done the same if the situations were reversed? If your answer to both of those questions is no then I think you are a little out of touch. Look, I don't want to come across as a closet skate or anything, but I'm just being realistic. They have some d1ckhead fans, and so do we. They have a large majority of decent fans, and so do we. No matter how much people like to brag about things like years in the top flight, attendances or whatever, the fact is there are a lot more similarities between our two clubs than most people are rationally capable of recognising. I'm truly sorry if my views upset anybody, but I'm just trying to look at it from a neutral point of view, which I appreciate is a very difficult thing to do when it comes to supporting a football club because by very definition, being a football fan requires a certain amount of blind loyalty.
Weston Saint Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 I consider myself an intelligent lad, and I go for the tribal hatred lark. I'm sure many other intelligent people on here would agree with me. I hate them. Don't try and take some moral high ground. But why hatred? That is what I do not get. Good humoured banter and rivalry I can understand but not out and out hatred. Surely that is unhealthy when we are refering to sporting occassions.
Joensuu Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 we dont know...someone may pick them up on teh cheap and they will still be higher than us.. People who buy football clubs are motivated by either money, status or love. Money: with so many debts, and so few assets it is hard to see any tangible profits to be made. Status: unlikely without the Premiership bling? Love: surely any rich Skate would have stepped up already? DD, you could be right, but it doesn't look very probable.
rpb Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 Well you are deluded then. I think that you are judging us by your own standards.
Smirking_Saint Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 we dont know...someone may pick them up on teh cheap and they will still be higher than us.. It is never ever going to be cheap though !!!!! Even if you paid a pound and a packet of crisps for the club, you will still have a debt that is unsurmountable, no land around the ground, in need of a new stadium and training ground !!!!!!! I am not sure what the overall outlay was for us to just buy and wipe the debts but it will be no where near the amount needed to save PFC, and then on top you need to fund new players etc. The thing that irks me is the PL's lack of movement, the club is financially screwed, the owners are ambiguous to say the least, Al Faraj is murcurial, has he ever BEEN to the UK ?? And to top it off they have been handed a winding up order, that was argued lol, and then HMRC turned around and said 'actually you have' Thank god we never went through this slow death, incredible bad management and a complete web of lies.
Thedelldays Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 bexy...saying we have d1ck head fans around does not justify what they ACTUALLY did (some of them). I did not expect anything less from that part of the ground that night..and I was not let down have you ever been to fratton for a pompey v saints game that experience alone is enough to hate them
Sheaf Saint Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 He always has been a total drama queen. :smt102 Normally I like you as a poster VFTT, but I'm at a loss to understand how you have come to this conclusion.
Weston Saint Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 Rare that I agree with you but I can tell a similar story. In the pub the other day we did a poll and oput of 20 asked at least half wanted to see Pompey's complete demise. And give or take the odd loon they were all middle class non-violent sorts. But tribal hatred Duncan?
Thedelldays Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 It is never ever going to be cheap though !!!!! Even if you paid a pound and a packet of crisps for the club, you will still have a debt that is unsurmountable, no land around the ground, in need of a new stadium and training ground !!!!!!! I am not sure what the overall outlay was for us to just buy and wipe the debts but it will be no where near the amount needed to save PFC, and then on top you need to fund new players etc. The thing that irks me is the PL's lack of movement, the club is financially screwed, the owners are ambiguous to say the least, Al Faraj is murcurial, has he ever BEEN to the UK ?? And to top it off they have been handed a winding up order, that was argued lol, and then HMRC turned around and said 'actually you have' Thank god we never went through this slow death, incredible bad management and a complete web of lies. what if they sell off the cown jewells, enter admin and get picked up for peanuts in the CCC...they could have sold the ground and rent it back.. what is to stop someone picking them up on the cheap in the CCC..spend a few quid getting them promoted and sell them off in the Prem in say 5-8 years from now..when the global down turn is very much an up turn..? I would rather they just went pop and formed Portsea Blues FC
Clapham Saint Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 I know that you should take anything on the rumour site with a pinch of salt but it still made interesting reading... http://www.football-rumours.co.uk/ Scroll down to 'I work at the FA...' Looks like bull to me.
Saint_clark Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 what if they sell off the cown jewells, enter admin and get picked up for peanuts in the CCC...they could have sold the ground and rent it back.. what is to stop someone picking them up on the cheap in the CCC..spend a few quid getting them promoted and sell them off in the Prem in say 5-8 years from now..when the global down turn is very much an up turn..? I would rather they just went pop and formed Portsea Blues FC But the debts would still have to be paid off.
Sheaf Saint Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 I consider myself an intelligent lad, and I go for the tribal hatred lark. I'm sure many other intelligent people on here would agree with me. I hate them. Don't try and take some moral high ground. Well then you have my sympathy. Hate is such a strong word, I feel sorry for anybody who has to go through life experiencing it.
Thedelldays Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 But the debts would still have to be paid off. indeed...but they would not be as much as they are now....would they we cost £13-15m..now way were our debts that low..?
Smirking_Saint Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 I do not want to see them cast into oblivion, however a crushing blow that will mean never seeing them compete at this or even CCC level again will be welcomed. The crap i got in the summer was unbearable, and the majority of pompey fans i mean are cretinous, venomous morons of which the vast majority do not even go to games, merely just wish to have a pop. Too long has the south coasts dark side been sitting pretty, the internal web of lies, deciept, money laundering, greed etc has been too long glazed over in the press. Time for them to sink back into the cess pit that they crawled from.
Saint_clark Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 indeed...but they would not be as much as they are now....would they we cost £13-15m..now way were our debts that low..? You'd think not, but when you consider we were forced into admin because we went only £100k over our overdraft then it seems more realistic (whilst making it even more of an outrage that Pompey are allowed to keep on taking loans out. FFS Premier League, stop trying to save your image and stick to your own rules).
Sheaf Saint Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 bexy...saying we have d1ck head fans around does not justify what they ACTUALLY did (some of them). I did not expect anything less from that part of the ground that night..and I was not let down have you ever been to fratton for a pompey v saints game that experience alone is enough to hate them No I never have. I have seen first-hand though the level of hatred some of their fans have towards us. Doesn't mean I need to reciprocate it though. Like I said, hate is such a strong word that I cannot bring myself to apply it to anybody.
Saint_clark Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 I'm sure I read on here during the summer when we were nearly in liquidation, that the penalty would be dropping down to Blue Square South? Would it be the same for Pompey?
Thedelldays Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 You'd think not, but when you consider we were forced into admin because we went only £100k over our overdraft then it seems more realistic (whilst making it even more of an outrage that Pompey are allowed to keep on taking loans out. FFS Premier League, stop trying to save your image and stick to your own rules). I dont think the prem is totally trying to save its image..it is doing what the FL should do..help teams as much as possible.. we hated the FL for seeming screwing us over and wanted more leaniency....then have a pop when the prem is doing just that..
Clapham Saint Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 PES, I think you're being too pessimistic about the future of Pompey, I can't see a chain of events that leads to Portsmouth being without a football club. Even if they do go under as a club, that happened to Middlesbrough and Bristol City in the 80s, those clubs stabilised a division or two lower. If Fratton Park was taken then it would be a little harder, but even AFC Wimbledon and Maidstone United are within 3 divisions of where they had once been. Saints and Pompey, in some form or other, to be rivals long after we've both shuffled off. I live in Yeovil now and Yeovil Town's traditional rivals are Weymouth. You might say that it doesn't make sense anymore, Weymouth are 3 divisions below Yeovil and look like getting relegated again, but that doesn't matter. Despite some Yeovil fans trying to create a rivalry with Rovers, Exeter and Bournemouth you can't manufacture that kind of thing. Yeovil's biggest rivals are still Weymouth, and ours will always be Pompey, even if you fell to the Wessex League or something. If SFC had folded in the summer and we had started up a Southampton 1885 club, wouldn't the first game between S1885 and PFC have been special, just like all the games we've played in the past. The corporate structure of the clubs involved mean nothing, it's a team representing the best city in Hampshire against a team representing that slum down the road. Spot on IMO. I can't see them going out of existence either, and (when I'm being sensible) I don't want them to disapear completely either. Their current incarnation may well go pop but like a bad smell they will be back.
Smirking_Saint Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 indeed...but they would not be as much as they are now....would they we cost £13-15m..now way were our debts that low..? We owed ion the region of 30 mil, the skates owe 60-70 mil, plus the loans that the saudi's have taken out with the stadium as security, they will want that back, so that is at least another 30 mil. They also have no infrastructure to name of. The club is a mess and only a very rich idiot will buy them, especially as was said before West Ham on the table. Those involved in the running of pompey over the last few years need to be shot for their incompetance.
Thedelldays Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 We owed ion the region of 30 mil, the skates owe 60-70 mil, plus the loans that the saudi's have taken out with the stadium as security, they will want that back, so that is at least another 30 mil. They also have no infrastructure to name of. The club is a mess and only a very rich idiot will buy them, especially as was said before West Ham on the table. Those involved in the running of pompey over the last few years need to be shot for their incompetance. you have no idea if that is a fact...
Smirking_Saint Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 I dont think the prem is totally trying to save its image..it is doing what the FL should do..help teams as much as possible.. we hated the FL for seeming screwing us over and wanted more leaniency....then have a pop when the prem is doing just that.. +1 Although i can see the prem not taking action will eventually make things worse. The transfer embargo was a joke as well, i know it still stands now but what is the point of an embargo in the months you cannot sign anyone anyways ??
Saint_clark Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 I dont think the prem is totally trying to save its image..it is doing what the FL should do..help teams as much as possible.. we hated the FL for seeming screwing us over and wanted more leaniency....then have a pop when the prem is doing just that.. I agree to an extent, however allowing a team to take out loan after loan after loan is far too lenient.
Smirking_Saint Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 you have no idea if that is a fact... No i don't, i am just going with what has been reported. I wouldn't put it much past a high figure however. I do fear them being bought on the cheap too, but make no mistake it is a much more difficult deal than ours.
warsash saint Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 I firmly believe that Saints fans would have respected the silence if the positions were reversed. You reckon our Yoof would have kept their mouths shut in the same situation ?.....I think you are being somewhat naive.
Johnny Bognor Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 Last nights emergency boardroom meeting at Fratton Park, captured on camera: http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=547337&postcount=1
Saint_clark Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 Last nights emergency boardroom meeting at Fratton Park, captured on camera: http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=547337&postcount=1 Brilliant
niceandfriendly Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 You reckon our Yoof would have kept their mouths shut in the same situation ?.....I think you are being somewhat naive. Everyone seems to be forgetting the minutes silence impeccably observed at SMS for Aaron Flahaven. It's pretty embarrassing for the human race that we even have to criticize people for not respecting a minutes silence for a loved one, but that's how low some Pompey fans are/were that night. Getting back on track, have they gone bust yet?
hypochondriac Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 you have no idea if that is a fact... TDD I think you have it a bit wrong. The amount of debt is not really the problem, it's who they owe the debt to. Reportedly they owe Sasha 30-40 million and he owns the surrounding land round fratton as security. They have taken a 15 million pound loan from a hong kong businessman secured against their ground. The also owe HMRC a sum of money and a number of clubs money for players. Now if they were to go into admin, the money owed to clubs has to be paid in order to play in the league. HMRC must be paid in full or they will refuse a CVA which will incur further point penalties. They must pay Sasha what he is owed or he can keep the surrounding ground and refuse to allow the expansion of fratton and they must pay the 15 million back or they won't have a ground to play in! Any new owner coming in will have to pay all of this off (being generous and factoring in this seasons tv money it's still going to be something north of 30 million) and they still don't own their training ground or have a half decent stadium. Markus got a fantastic deal on us because we owed very little to anyone other than stadium debt which could be negotiated once we entered admin. If the skates go into admin then they will cease to exist.
RedAndWhite91 Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 But why hatred? That is what I do not get. Good humoured banter and rivalry I can understand but not out and out hatred. Surely that is unhealthy when we are refering to sporting occassions. I can't explain my hatred for them, I've had it for so long. The amount of hatred aimed our way when we were in admin and the amount of stick I've received has only re-enforced my hate for them.
RedAndWhite91 Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 Well then you have my sympathy. Hate is such a strong word, I feel sorry for anybody who has to go through life experiencing it. Thanks, but I don't need sympathy. I love to hate them.
Under Weststand Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 Last nights emergency boardroom meeting at Fratton Park, captured on camera: http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=547337&postcount=1 Brilliant
Joensuu Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 http://fansonline.net/portsmouth/mb/view.php?id=213097 Some interesting questions...
Elmore Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 If you go under and cease to exist than the Premier League has a lot to answer for. They should be monitoring clubs to ensure that they are operating within their limits. If they had done so in your case then they would not only have protected you - but they would have gone some way to protecting those clubs the you owe money to such as Watford. Don't get me wrong - I am not saying that Pompey are not responsible for the mess that they currently find themselves in - they are, but others should have taken action sooner. I think that the FA have a duty of care to thier members to advise them when they see spending at levels that are not appropriate to club size. Watford (and other clubs) are also a bit foolish in selling players to Portsmouth, knowing full well the financial difficulties they are in and the likelihood of not meeting agreed payments. If I was in need of money I wouldn't sell assets (with long re-payment schedules) to an organisation teetering on administration. I won't be wishing Portsmouth luck until they are well and truly below us, but I hope they survive.
Under Weststand Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Peter-Storrie-It-s-business-as-usual-at-Portsmouth-despite-the-club-having-to-deny-they-have-been-served-with-a-winding-up-order-article272823.html So If its buisness as normal then we can expect something else to laugh at later on today. Also they expect to be able to pay wages later today, so its late again so why no points penalty from the premier league.
Weston Saint Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 I can't explain my hatred for them, I've had it for so long. The amount of hatred aimed our way when we were in admin and the amount of stick I've received has only re-enforced my hate for them.George Bernard Shaw once said "Hatred is the coward's revenge for being intimidated"
miserableoldgit Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 Loved this bit :- The current squad have already shown they have what it takes to compete with any side in this league, and if we can add even more quality, we will have every chance of surviving." Of course they have! That is why they have been rock bottom all season!!
Thedelldays Posted 31 December, 2009 Posted 31 December, 2009 George Bernard Shaw once said "Hatred is the coward's revenge for being intimidated" behave
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